[QUOTE=Fluury;53029921]I think the most fun I had in Casual was when I dicked around with 3 frends beating people up with loss
[t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/858348684129032589/040153516C132A611E559D255C115ADF629E61A5/[/t]
people went as far and called us bots[/QUOTE]
I remember seeing that on /tf2g/.
I posted it on lmao pics before you could as well.
Mercenary Park's last point can be awfully harsh for the attacking team as it does require a somewhat coordinated effort to break though the sentry hell that you are guaranteed to face. however
[t]https://i.imgur.com/QrTjZFl.jpg[/t]
Today I learned that equally coordinated defense can push attackers so far back to the point they can't even leave spawn. these engineers built their sentries specifically on that point and let the blu team cap the first two points. by the time blu was spawning on that place it was a massacre.
[QUOTE=Metaru;53031910]Mercenary Park's last point can be awfully harsh for the attacking team as it does require a somewhat coordinated effort to break though the sentry hell that you are guaranteed to face. however
[t]https://i.imgur.com/QrTjZFl.jpg[/t]
Today I learned that equally coordinated defense can push attackers so far back to the point they can't even leave spawn. these engineers built their sentries specifically on that point and let the blu team cap the first two points. by the time blu was spawning on that place it was a massacre.[/QUOTE]
the spawn could use a door that opens on the point B side
[QUOTE=Metaru;53031910]Mercenary Park's last point can be awfully harsh for the attacking team as it does require a somewhat coordinated effort to break though the sentry hell that you are guaranteed to face. however
[t]https://i.imgur.com/QrTjZFl.jpg[/t]
Today I learned that equally coordinated defense can push attackers so far back to the point they can't even leave spawn. these engineers built their sentries specifically on that point and let the blu team cap the first two points. by the time blu was spawning on that place it was a massacre.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=chandlerj333;53031983]the spawn could use a door that opens on the point B side[/QUOTE]
Yeah the first time I played the updated Merc Park my team was able to spawn camp blu at their final spawn for 2-3 minutes before they finally pushed out. It really needs another exit.
valve should just swallow their pride and give an attempt to remaking mostly everything after point B, maybe even attempting to make it so the last point is outdoors to give jumping classes more freedom and to really milk the "jungle" part of the "jungle map"
Mercenary park looks nice but plays like ass. First point is not really that bad. Second point is not bad but not really good either. It's just the last point that really ruins the whole map for me.
Not to mention all the problems it originally had.
Personally the new map was a turn off for me. I didnt like how it played - it wasnt fluent and still isnt. It feels like swiss cheese, its difficult to know where to go and where the enemy is coming from. Last area is way too closed, not a good design in my opinion.
It suffers a lot from the same thing that some old maps suffered from such as junction and that is too much cramped spaces,the last point basicaly has no way to flank it apart from the right window and the vents but those can be shut down by a sentry.
all in all a map should not be able to be shutdown completely by a sentry.
[QUOTE=ASIC;53031667]I found a guy buying it for 10 keys, which is more than I bought it for.[/QUOTE]
Just wondering if anyone here is willing to pay more for it.
I like the fact that valve incorporates big elevation changes, large catwalks above points and varied space elements like that with merc park. Gaben knows, old ass maps like dustbowl and gold rush could use some of that modern hero shooter architecture. We have jetpacks now.
But the last is stupid. I get that last points on AD/payload maps are meant to be defensible strongholds but that's absolutely ridiculous.
Take badwater's last point for example. It's comparatively huge, with access to the three main flanks into it (Map room, tires, and the cart path) all easily available to attackers, with responsible sightlines. It has a the objective in a drop-in that both requires attackers to leap over a ledge or through a window and commit to an attack when pushing into it AND also gives those attackers ground to punish overly turtle-y defenses, such as the spam angles into where sentries are often located underneath the ledges.
This last has none of that. Just build a sentry or two on the boxes, and as long as you have a reasonably full sever, your team is cooped up enough in so small of a space, that the only real other way into the point (which is a gauntlet that has you walk past the spawn and expose yourself to fire from across the room) will be covered.
They could learn a thing or two from previously successful designs.
[QUOTE=rolfum;53032000]valve should just swallow their pride and give an attempt to remaking mostly everything after point B, maybe even attempting to make it so the last point is outdoors to give jumping classes more freedom and to really milk the "jungle" part of the "jungle map"[/QUOTE]
Well the last point is inside the volcano/caves so it can't really be outside. Though it would be nice if maybe part of the building had been destroyed by the Yeti and you had an extra flank to go through that's actually inside the volcano/caves itself instead of just having the cave parts be background for the spawn rooms and that little vent flank that no one ever uses.
tf2 by design has a last issue, doesnt matter which gamemode or which map, Last will always be the stalemate point people will consider awful
which is why I wanna work on a map type that is essentially circular payload; There is no last, and it all comes down to how many points you cap in roughly 10 minutes.
[QUOTE=Fluury;53032218]tf2 by design has a last issue, doesnt matter which gamemode or which map, Last will always be the stalemate point people will consider awful
which is why I wanna work on a map type that is essentially circular payload; There is no last, and it all comes down to how many points you cap in roughly 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]
Stalemates aren't that bad, if the other team can overcome them. They are key areas where the defending team can keep the other team stuck for a while, maybe just to get defences set up on the next area or the final point that you have to fight for to get a victory. If the stalemate point is so powerfull, that its nearly impossible to penetrate, then its a map design flaw.
[QUOTE=ics;53032323]Stalemates aren't that bad, if the other team can overcome them. They are key areas where the defending team can keep the other team stuck for a while, maybe just to get defences set up on the next area or the final point that you have to fight for to get a victory. If the stalemate point is so powerfull, that its nearly impossible to penetrate, then its a map design flaw.[/QUOTE]
I mean, what makes people hate Last areas if not the stalemates? All movement and excitement in the game gets to a halt - this is an issue in both your average pub payload match of badwater and competitive 5 CP sixes where the enemy team just stays at last because its too scary and risky to push out, goes Heavy and Engie and the entire thing degenerates into a shitfest
A map type where there essentially is no Last and thus no major stalemate area would cause essentially endless movement and tension in a match - it would basically be the polar opposite of something like powerhouse.
mercenary's last point isn't as bad as you guys want to make it. i wonder how many people actually know about the one-way vents that lead underneath and behind the actual point, wich is often the go way for ambushes. it does require a bit of cooperation, and is often a good way to remind new players about the importance of having uber to break though sentry nests rather than send 4 spies to sap a sentry.
the actual real stinker here are efectively blue's second and last spawn. that second spawn has no indication whatsoever as to wich way you should go. as soon as you get out you're greeted with an empty wall and completely disoriented. i've seen way too many people end up in the first area just because they decided to turn right and walk for a while until they realize it was the other way around. and that last point is suffers greatly from the asumption that red will not be able to spawncamp it. having spawns with a single exit should be a baneable offense in map desing, even junction's one hs at least 4 ways out.
[QUOTE=Fluury;53032218]tf2 by design has a last issue, doesnt matter which gamemode or which map, Last will always be the stalemate point people will consider awful
which is why I wanna work on a map type that is essentially circular payload; There is no last, and it all comes down to how many points you cap in roughly 10 minutes.[/QUOTE]
Yet again, everyone has different opinions. I like stalemating in casual because it makes the game longer, I don't have to reque every 5 min.
I do like the idea of the "payload cycle" gamemode, but I think we should also try to get more maps in of gamemodes that aren't stalematey in the first place. For instance, KotH. The time limit after the first point makes it so the game isn't a stalemate. But, in 6s, the only one that gets played is Product (which isn't even in the game). King of the hill is the only other gamemode besides maybe A/D (stopwatch) that works for 6s. So we need new maps. I could try learning hammer again... but I always forget everything I learn after going through a tutorial and lose interest.
The 7 Deadly Valve Map Sins:
● Only one spawn door for one or each team, which makes it incredibly easy to spawncamp the opposing team.
● A choke somewhere in the map (most of the time on last) which it's practically impossible to push through, sometimes even with an uber. (It's a worse offender in pubs.)
● For defenders, their spawn is so incredibly close to their last point/flag, that most of the time you can shoot enemies from their spawn or spam with pipes or stickies in case direct view is blocked with props. Unless it's a wipe or half of the defenders' team is dead, dying is basically meaningless most of the time.
● Usually on last, there's places where Sentries and Snipers have spots where they're ridiculously difficult to play against. This includes spots where you cannot outrange the Sentry and safely throw projectiles at it, and sometimes even if you can, the Engineer is really safe and can outheal your spam. Even if you destroy it, they will build another one easily, moreso if the build zone is close to spawn. Similarly, for Snipers, this includes positions and paths that literally go through or are really close to their spawnpoint and offer a really safe position, which makes retreating easy if enemies approach them.
● For attackers, when they're approaching last (but not exclusively to it), often they pushing with a height disadvantage, which makes defenders' Soldiers and Demomen' spam much more hurtful and annoying to fight against.
● In A/D and Payload maps, the first point of any stage (if more than one) is basically free for the attackers, even with teams of equal skill.
● In CP maps, the timer is ridiculously, egregiously long after capping various times, and capping awards a huge amount of time. Although this gives more time for teams to prepare a push, there's basically no rush in doing so, and the defenders will probably don't mind picking defense classes to keep their stronghold going due to the lack of paths leading to the next or last point.
It's scary to think about how many apply to official maps, doesn't it?
Someone tried to make a remaster for rd_asteroid and it exploded in the workshop after a few moments.
He is new to hammer and the map isnt too great but i appreciate the effort on trying to keep the memory of a lost map
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1246942879[/url]
[QUOTE=JugadorXEI;53032478]The 7 Deadly Valve Map Sins:
● Only one spawn door for one or each team, which makes it incredibly easy to spawncamp the opposing team.
● A choke somewhere in the map (most of the time on last) which it's practically impossible to push through, sometimes even with an uber. (It's a worse offender in pubs.)
● For defenders, their spawn is so incredibly close to their last point/flag, that most of the time you can shoot enemies from their spawn or spam with pipes or stickies in case direct view is blocked with props. Unless it's a wipe or half of the defenders' team is dead, dying is basically meaningless most of the time.
● Usually on last, there's places where Sentries and Snipers have spots where they're ridiculously difficult to play against. This includes spots where you cannot outrange the Sentry and safely throw projectiles at it, and sometimes even if you can, the Engineer is really safe and can outheal your spam. Even if you destroy it, they will build another one easily, moreso if the build zone is close to spawn. Similarly, for Snipers, this includes positions and paths that literally go through or are really close to their spawnpoint and offer a really safe position, which makes retreating easy if enemies approach them.
● For attackers, when they're approaching last (but not exclusively to it), often they pushing with a height disadvantage, which makes defenders' Soldiers and Demomen' spam much more hurtful and annoying to fight against.
● In A/D and Payload maps, the first point of any stage (if more than one) is basically free for the attackers, even with teams of equal skill.
● In CP maps, the timer is ridiculously, egregiously long after capping various times, and capping awards a huge amount of time. Although this gives more time for teams to prepare a push, there's basically no rush in doing so, and the defenders will probably don't mind picking defense classes to keep their stronghold going due to the lack of paths leading to the next or last point.
It's scary to think about how many apply to official maps, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]
I'd image the official maps tend to have the same issues since the same mappers have been making the maps for a decade now.
alright, to clarify, if you look through the patch diff for jungle inferno update, you can see that the weapons that vnn found were actually added to the files
[img]https://puu.sh/yWeBb/0a8ad9a20e.png[/img]
[img]https://puu.sh/yWeLX/857a5732b0.png[/img]
and to note, those weapons have been removed from files in some patch, can't find them, but they've been added into the game for sure
look for them yourselves [url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Template:PatchDiff/October_20,_2017_Patch[/url]
alright, facepunch, i've got all 4000 blood money from the jungle inferno campaign, and zero interest in any war paints. what's the most efficient way to convert it all back into steambucks or keys?
not buying the pass for the sake of profit is a good start.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53032457]I do like the idea of the "payload cycle" gamemode, but I think we should also try to get more maps in of gamemodes that aren't stalematey in the first place. For instance, KotH. The time limit after the first point makes it so the game isn't a stalemate. But, in 6s, the only one that gets played is Product (which isn't even in the game). King of the hill is the only other gamemode besides maybe A/D (stopwatch) that works for 6s. So we need new maps. I could try learning hammer again... but I always forget everything I learn after going through a tutorial and lose interest.[/QUOTE]
Making a koth map thats "comp accepted" is extremely difficult and virtually impossible given how closed-in the comp community is
[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;53032538]alright, facepunch, i've got all 4000 blood money from the jungle inferno campaign, and zero interest in any war paints. what's the most efficient way to convert it all back into steambucks or keys?[/QUOTE]
Buy a bunch of war paints and sell them for Steam Wallet? It wont make up for the pass but its better than not spending at all.
Oi, when does the Jungle Inferno end?
[QUOTE=Fluury;53032649]given how closed-in the comp community is[/QUOTE]
This is probably the biggest problem with the TF2 community. Unwillingness to try new things and change.
[QUOTE=Creeps;53032806]Oi, when does the Jungle Inferno end?[/QUOTE]
In February.
[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;53032538]alright, facepunch, i've got all 4000 blood money from the jungle inferno campaign, and zero interest in any war paints. what's the most efficient way to convert it all back into steambucks or keys?[/QUOTE]
Well, it's well over a month since the event started, the most you can get are war paints that go for max $.50 aside from Dragon Slayer, and, as said, you bought it with the intent to make money back from it...
The most efficient way to convert it back would be to actually do it when the event starts next time
What warpaints do you like on melee weapons? I think civil servant on the back scratcher looks pretty nice.
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