We should spam gabens email adress to do something about the bots.
call me fucking stupid if I'm wrong, but couldn't valve just buy a copy of lmaobox/nullcore and then try to reverse engineer them so that they're detectable by VAC?
I just had a dueling minigame drop the moment I won a duel. Are dueling minigames more likely to drop when you use one up or was it just a coincidence?
iirc you get a freebie dueling minigame for every 10 duels you win.
[QUOTE=rolfum;53035441]call me fucking stupid if I'm wrong, but couldn't valve just buy a copy of lmaobox/nullcore and then try to reverse engineer them so that they're detectable by VAC?[/QUOTE]
Catbot is open source: [url]https://github.com/nullifiedcat/cathook[/url]
It's not just a matter of having the code though, you need to be able to detect its presence on the system (client side detection, bypassed relatively easily on Linux due to the open source nature of the OS), its effect on player actions (e.g. negating recoil by moving in the opposite direction, without false positives if it's a trained human doing it) and precisely timed actions like bunny hopping and the like.
It's tough because these hacks are getting better and better at emulating human behavior and hiding where VAC can't detect them on the client side. Server side checks would require expensive testing that is defeated by the popularity of the game (cost requirement and CPU time required goes up the more data needs to be processed, it also increases the size requirement of your server farm), the machine learning approach is cheaper but relies on having input data to train your detection software to find human and programmed behavior, and it has to account for all manner of cheats.
Even if they sued the creator, due to the cheat being open source it won't stop the cheating at all. At best you impact development, but unless you can sue all developers involved and prevent anyone else from picking it up, there isn't much you can do.
Basically the only way to defeat cheaters 100% of the time is having an omniscient AI that can spot a cheater the moment they do something out of the ordinary. And if you have that, you probably wouldn't be using it for anti-cheat purposes.
[QUOTE='[aL`H]solokiller`og;53035599']Catbot is open source: [url]https://github.com/nullifiedcat/cathook[/url]
It's not just a matter of having the code though, you need to be able to detect its presence on the system (client side detection, bypassed relatively easily on Linux due to the open source nature of the OS), its effect on player actions (e.g. negating recoil by moving in the opposite direction, without false positives if it's a trained human doing it) and precisely timed actions like bunny hopping and the like.
It's tough because these hacks are getting better and better at emulating human behavior and hiding where VAC can't detect them on the client side. Server side checks would require expensive testing that is defeated by the popularity of the game (cost requirement and CPU time required goes up the more data needs to be processed, it also increases the size requirement of your server farm), the machine learning approach is cheaper but relies on having input data to train your detection software to find human and programmed behavior, and it has to account for all manner of cheats.
Even if they sued the creator, due to the cheat being open source it won't stop the cheating at all. At best you impact development, but unless you can sue all developers involved and prevent anyone else from picking it up, there isn't much you can do.
Basically the only way to defeat cheaters 100% of the time is having an omniscient AI that can spot a cheater the moment they do something out of the ordinary. And if you have that, you probably wouldn't be using it for anti-cheat purposes.[/QUOTE]
sue cheater, reverse engineer enough that you can detect cheat as it currently is, people stop using the cheat, everyone wins
so basicaly we are stuck for another year with catbots?
[QUOTE=Daakun;53035458]iirc you get a freebie dueling minigame for every 10 duels you win.[/QUOTE]
Yep, you get a free dueling minigame and a free random drop every 10 duel wins.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53035621]sue cheater, reverse engineer enough that you can detect cheat as it currently is, people stop using the cheat, everyone wins[/QUOTE]
This is like saying to solve the pirating problem you sue the pirate sites and turn a switch on computers so you can detect the pirated files on other computers.
It's not that simple. Not by a long shot.
[QUOTE=Fluury;53035141]Did Blizzard succeed with getting several Cheaters sued?[/QUOTE]
I heard they were able to detect a wide range of WoW cheaters, but held off on banning them until a rival MMO was released. Then all the hackers migrated to that rival MMO and ran it into the ground right out the gate, never recovering.
Just hearsay and I'm too lazy to check, but I thought it was pretty clever / devious / cruel
I'm pretty sure valve is on the side of doing things about it rather than calling IGN to make an article on what they're going to do.
[QUOTE=Big Snake Bos;53035632]so basicaly we are stuck for another year with catbots?[/QUOTE]
No. Machine learning + improved in-game user tools > degenerates with keyboards every single time. We just have to get there first.
Just a few good players with a proper votekick/reporting system or admin tools can boot even the most sophisticated cheats, and end the disruption on the spot.
Met a... bot? today. Not sure what this is all about, but I found it quite funny.
[code]Cat-Bot 32 was automatically assigned to team BLU
Cat-Bot 32 : hello im not like the other cat-bots
Cat-Bot 32 : i do no harm
Cat-Bot 32 : i just wanna tell you all good news
Cat-Bot 32 : nullifiedcat and hes bots are now gone by us we are GreyHats not like does GreyHats on tv
Cat-Bot 32 : please do not kick
Cat-Bot 32 : we will not harm team players will can harm enemy players sorry about that
Cat-Bot 32 : but all your ip is online if you do try to hack us we will get revenge on you
Cat-Bot 32 : 2000 hackers are gonna fight back
Cat-Bot 32 : this was the news i was command to say
Cat-Bot 32 : if you see anymore cat-bots that do harm then they are not gone
Cat-Bot 32 left the game (Disconnect by user.)[/code]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198804055451[/url]
[QUOTE=Darth_Toast;53035657]I heard they were able to detect a wide range of WoW cheaters, but held off on banning them until a rival MMO was released. Then all the hackers migrated to that rival MMO and ran it into the ground right out the gate, never recovering.
Just hearsay and I'm too lazy to check, but I thought it was pretty clever / devious / cruel[/QUOTE]
So all we have to do is wait for a TF2 clone to get popular and... oh.
[QUOTE=nuke4fix;53035892]Met a... bot? today. Not sure what this is all about, but I found it quite funny.
[code]Cat-Bot 32 was automatically assigned to team BLU
Cat-Bot 32 : hello im not like the other cat-bots
Cat-Bot 32 : i do no harm
Cat-Bot 32 : i just wanna tell you all good news
Cat-Bot 32 : nullifiedcat and hes bots are now gone by us we are GreyHats not like does GreyHats on tv
Cat-Bot 32 : please do not kick
Cat-Bot 32 : we will not harm team players will can harm enemy players sorry about that
Cat-Bot 32 : but all your ip is online if you do try to hack us we will get revenge on you
Cat-Bot 32 : 2000 hackers are gonna fight back
Cat-Bot 32 : this was the news i was command to say
Cat-Bot 32 : if you see anymore cat-bots that do harm then they are not gone
Cat-Bot 32 left the game (Disconnect by user.)[/code]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198804055451[/url][/QUOTE]
Ah so now the cat bots try to demoralise us,its not enough to ruin popular maps like harvest and suijin but now he is gloating about his cat bots.
Cat-Bot 32 : but all your ip is online if you do try to hack us we will get revenge on you
lol'd
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53036361]Cat-Bot 32 : but all your ip is online if you do try to hack us we will get revenge on you
lol'd[/QUOTE]
My uncle works for Nintendo.
How long till we get the TF2 version of those Diablo 2 bots that join a server and spam links to some dodgy online trading site for 5 minutes then leave?
[QUOTE=Whomobile;53036629]How long till we get the TF2 version of those Diablo 2 bots that join a server and spam links to some dodgy online trading site for 5 minutes then leave?[/QUOTE]
In a similar fashion, Realm Of the Mad God has bots that swarm the local spawn points doing a similar thing. A fresh batch of them shows up every 48 hours.
At least you can permanently block them in that game.
when you ambush from behind and hit 7-8 confirmed melee hits in a row, and you never random crit once
that's like, reverse psychology
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53036661]when you ambush from behind and hit 7-8 confirmed melee hits in a row, and you never random crit once
that's like, reverse psychology[/QUOTE]
Switch off of Eyelander then
(that's a joke)
I'd really like to see this in a future update
"optimized the weapon paint loading system"
CSGO skins are probably a lot more complex and they load way faster.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53036752]I'd really like to see this in a future update
"optimized the weapon paint loading system"
CSGO skins are probably a lot more complex and they load way faster.[/QUOTE]
I feel like that has a lot to do with TF2's spaghetti coding.
[QUOTE=nuke4fix;53035892]Met a... bot? today. Not sure what this is all about, but I found it quite funny.
[code]Cat-Bot 32 was automatically assigned to team BLU
Cat-Bot 32 : hello im not like the other cat-bots
Cat-Bot 32 : i do no harm
Cat-Bot 32 : i just wanna tell you all good news
Cat-Bot 32 : nullifiedcat and hes bots are now gone by us we are GreyHats not like does GreyHats on tv
Cat-Bot 32 : please do not kick
Cat-Bot 32 : we will not harm team players will can harm enemy players sorry about that
Cat-Bot 32 : but all your ip is online if you do try to hack us we will get revenge on you
Cat-Bot 32 : 2000 hackers are gonna fight back
Cat-Bot 32 : this was the news i was command to say
Cat-Bot 32 : if you see anymore cat-bots that do harm then they are not gone
Cat-Bot 32 left the game (Disconnect by user.)[/code]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198804055451[/url][/QUOTE]
did someone edit cathook into a shitpost bot?
I would like an option with war paints for weapons that have blood on them by default like the ubersaw to keep the blood with the paint.
I've played 5 comp games and in 3 of them there were hackers, sometimes more than one.
there should be a contract signed upon entering TF2, with writing like "If cheats are detected while running Team Fortress 2, a fine of no more than $10,000 is placed on the account of the user. If this fine is not paid in (amount of time), criminal charges may be sought."
I'm sure little kids would stop cheating then, and Valve would get a fuckton of money for those that didn't stop.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that cheat detection should start the instant TF2 is opened. No more non-VAC servers, because VAC is just a part of the game.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53037013]there should be a contract signed upon entering TF2, with writing like "If cheats are detected while running Team Fortress 2, a fine of no more than $10,000 is placed on the account of the user. If this fine is not paid in (amount of time), criminal charges may be sought."
I'm sure little kids would stop cheating then, and Valve would get a fuckton of money for those that didn't stop.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that cheat detection should start the instant TF2 is opened. No more non-VAC servers, because VAC is just a part of the game.[/QUOTE]
Might be impossible for VAC to run when not in a server.
Also are there any servers running 5gorge? The ace video reminded me of it and I'd like to play it.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53037013]there should be a contract signed upon entering TF2, with writing like "If cheats are detected while running Team Fortress 2, a fine of no more than $10,000 is placed on the account of the user. If this fine is not paid in (amount of time), criminal charges may be sought."
I'm sure little kids would stop cheating then, and Valve would get a fuckton of money for those that didn't stop.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that cheat detection should start the instant TF2 is opened. No more non-VAC servers, because VAC is just a part of the game.[/QUOTE]
Haha, oh man. That already exists, it's called "License and User agreements" that you sign for literally every game you install on steam, as well as steam itself.
Again, the ideas you propose are like saying this would work for people that pirate MP3s online. Not gonna work. Not by a long shot.
yea man make valve develop ransomwares
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53037013]there should be a contract signed upon entering TF2, with writing like "If cheats are detected while running Team Fortress 2, a fine of no more than $10,000 is placed on the account of the user. If this fine is not paid in (amount of time), criminal charges may be sought."
I'm sure little kids would stop cheating then, and Valve would get a fuckton of money for those that didn't stop.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that cheat detection should start the instant TF2 is opened. No more non-VAC servers, because VAC is just a part of the game.[/QUOTE]
Vac doesn't do anything. It's a bad anticheat that doesn't stop the problem where it exists, which for most players is the cheater in MY server ruining MY fun right NOW.
Delayed bans are meaningless in the age of automation, where it doesn't matter how many cheaters you nab at once because they weren't learning what flaws their cheats had.
You're letting criminals run free in the meantime to ruin games which is the entire point, and also giving them more time to create alts to replace banned ones. Cheaters could be banned instantly after every match was over, but so long as they got to ruin someone's game, and just go back to it later with an alt, you're not solving the problem.
There's literally no risk, and that's the real problem. Yes, we do know better than valve on this because industry leaders are doing it, as well as community anti cheat teams too while TF2 remains stagnant. Results matter over everything.
Hardware bans. Prime accounts. Power voting. Meaningful ranks. Community moderation. Industry lobbying. Information handover and legal action.
These are the tools of modernity, and if it seems like I'm upset, it's because anticheat development is something I'm really passionate about, as well as hate seeing such apathy and missed opportunity to use TF2 as a testbed for these things.
#rantover
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