Yeah people pubstomping with a weapon doesn't mean it's good. I once pub stomped on a sharpened volcano fragment melee spree. Anything can work on pubs because the skill differences there are sometimes just ridiculous. Somebody could pubstomp as a melee only sun on a stick scout if the enemy was brain-dead enough.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042095]Spy shouldn't headshot[/QUOTE]
your opinion doesn't make what I'm saying incorrect though :thinking:
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042095]Spy shouldn't headshot[/QUOTE]
I always wanted it to be possible thanks to that headshot in meet the spy.
[QUOTE=Contra132;53042120]your opinion doesn't make what I'm saying incorrect though :thinking:[/QUOTE]
Right, I think the Ambassador should be reworked since it's obvious no agreement will be made about these things. Even as a weapon that, by numbers, is worse than stock, people aren't okay with it. It should be changed to give utility to the Spy in some way. Switch speed for knives, cloak/decloak fade time, sapper utility, etc etc etc. There are things that can be done to make the thing useful and not annoying to deal with.
If there is to be a strong Revolver for Spy, it has to be a hand cannon that's incredibly punishing should you miss the shot/be surrounded by enemies/not be able to finish the kill for some reason. Ambassador's problem isn't solely its high damage output, it's also the fact that there's no punishment for missing a headshot since you can reset so fast, meaning before the nerf it was just a stronger revolver over-all. The problem with balancing a weapon like Spy's revolvers is that you shouldn't be tweaking the damage, that's a gateway to lots of balancing problems, as evidence by every Spy revolver sidegrade ever (exluding current L'etranger).
The revolver is a tool, not Spy's preferred method of killing, so the fact that he has it usable at any point should be focused on. Firing speed, reload speed, mag size, utility, those are what should be focused on when balancing them, and current L'etranger proves that it's possible to create a (somewhat) balanced sidegrade to Spy's revolver without completely overshadowing the stock Revolver or making him too much of a problem to deal with as a Class.
In short: Use my hand-cannon concept from the Weapon Fixing megathread, god damn it.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042095]Spy shouldn't headshot[/QUOTE]
Eh, I don't see how it hurts anything, more so now that it can't be used for sniping so it no longer tramples on sniper's territory. It also actively raises the spy's skill ceiling to pull off as well, which honestly is a good thing in most regards... It's not like it's the diamond back by any means, which does the opposite of raising the skill. I'd think that someone that actually promote's a higher skill requirement to pull off would actually be liked within the community.
It feels like what is really being said though is "Spy shouldn't be able to do anything", well... Besides backstab people on occasions ( intelligent people mind you, not casual level garbage players bare in mind ).
My friend messeged me and said ctf maps are unplayable because of cat bots, I thought he was kidding when he said there's like 6-7 catbots per server (2fort, nucleus, turbine).
Well guess what....
Like seriously, what the fuck is going on lmao, Valve should really get their shit together and start doing something about it. They get kicked, some rejoin again, and so on and on.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53041101]
Scout
Pyro (Thermal Thruster)
Soldier (Roaming)
Heavy (Gloves of Running Urgently)
Demoman
Medic
[/QUOTE]
There's a reason those weapons are banned in 6's lol.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042302]There's a reason those weapons are banned in 6's lol.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53039687][url]http://whitelist.tf/competitive_6v6[/url]
The new 6v6 global whitelist for weapon bans is out!
- Banned even after JI changes: -
Pretty Boy's Pocket Pistol (banned because of changes, actually)
Crit-a-Cola
Flying Guillotine
Atomizer
Cow Mangler 5000 (same as PBPP)
Mantreads (same as PBPP)
Reserve Shooter
Fists of Steel
Rescue Ranger
- Still banned anyway (banned in last season, wasn't changed in JI) -
Soda Popper
Mad Milk
Disciplinary Action
Buffalo Steak Sandvich
Short Circuit
Wrangler
Quick-Fix
Vaccinator
Solemn Vow
Sydney Sleeper
Jarate
[B]- Weapons UNBANNED since JI: -
Bonk! Atomic Punch
Sandman
B.A.S.E. Jumper
Gloves of Running Urgently (!)
Vita-Saw
Darwin's Danger Shield[/B]
- Other notable things -
Dragon's Fury is banned.
[B]Thermal Thruster is NOT banned (or hot hand)![/B]
Natascha is banned now, probably because we'll be seeing more heavies at mid (super excited). The weapon is still pretty weak though, so I don't know.
I'm really excited to see the unbanning of GRU and Thermal Thruster specifically. Full-time Pyros and Heavies, please![/QUOTE]
They're not banned anymore. That's why I made that post.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042310]They're not banned anymore. That's why I made that post.[/QUOTE]
Unbanned for testing.
bonk is useless.
sandman is useless.
BASE jumper is useless, roamer wont use it instead of gunboats, pocket has absolutely no use for it.
GRE is useless, heavy won't be ran to mid unless you want to risk alot. Heavy is a high risk great reward class in 6's, that's why you don't see any heavy in mid fight, class is literally too slow for 6's format, gru won't make it any better.
Drawins is useless, smg is twice better in 6's.
No one will run heavy or pyro to mid fights in 6's, so stop dreaming about it.
If you have 6's experience, official 6's , not valve, you will understand why.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042325]GRU is useless, heavy won't be ran to mid unless you want to risk alot. Heavy is a high risk great reward class in 6's, that's why you don't see any heavy in mid fight, class is literally too slow for 6's format, gru won't make it any better.[/QUOTE]
Uh, it's far from "useless". It's still my favorite melee option for Heavy by a country mile. Fists of Steal being the only other viable option, and I barely use it by comparison.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042325]Unbanned for testing.
Bonk is useless.
Sandman is useless.
BASE jumper is useless, roamer wont use it instead of gunboats, pocket has absolutely no use for it.
GRU is useless, heavy won't be ran to mid unless you want to risk alot. Heavy is a high risk great reward class in 6's, that's why you don't see any heavy in mid fight, class is literally too slow for 6's format, gru won't make it any better.
Darwins is useless, smg is twice better in 6's.
No one will run heavy or pyro to mid fights in 6's, so stop dreaming about it.
If you have 6's experience, official 6's , not valve, you will understand why.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Heavy (especially with Tomislav) definitely has a place in midfights, able to single-handedly deny bombs (as seen in HL). And he could still do that with 150 health, easily. Pyro can reflect spam, which is useful for midfights especially (demoman is the most important combat class in 6s). These things haven't been tested yet, so you don't really have any stake in this discussion either.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042328]Actually, Heavy (especially with Tomislav) definitely has a place in midfights, able to single-handedly deny bombs (as seen in HL). And he could still do that with 150 health, easily. Pyro can reflect spam, which is useful for midfights especially (demoman is the most important combat class in 6s). These things haven't been tested yet, so you don't really have any stake in this discussion either.[/QUOTE]
Come to our scrim tommorow and prove it, If you successfully use your tomislav with gru in scrim, I'll give you a key.
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53042327]Uh, it's far from "useless". It's still my favorite melee option for Heavy by a country mile. Fists of Steal being the only other viable option, and I barely use it by comparison.[/QUOTE]
We are talking about 6's, not in general.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042336]We are talking about 6's, not in general.[/QUOTE]
Is it really that difficult to put away before you get into the actual fight so that a good chunk of your health regenerates?
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53042341]Is it really that difficult to put away before you get into the actual fight so that a good chunk of your health regenerates?[/QUOTE]
It's not, but heavy is not a mid fight class lol. Never was, no matter what the no-experience guy says here. There is a reason you literally almost never see heavy in 6's besides being on last point.
Take it from someone who has 6's experience for years. Heavy and Pyro are not made to be "main" 6's classes. They're too situational and lack of fast pace gameplay.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042336]Come to our scrim tommorow and prove it, If you successfully use your tomislav with gru in scrim, I'll give you a key.
[/QUOTE]
My laptop's fan has been broken for 4 months, and I haven't played TF2 since then. Go get Exor to do that for you. I won't have a computer until the week of the 21st at the earliest.
[editline]10th January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042342]There is a reason you literally almost never see heavy in 6's besides being on last point.[/QUOTE]
Because he has no mobility aside from a weapon that's been banned in 6s for years.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042343]My laptop's fan has been broken for 4 months, and I haven't played TF2 since then. Go get Exor to do that for you. I won't have a computer until the week of the 21st at the earliest.
[editline]10th January 2018[/editline]
Because he has no mobility aside from a weapon that's been banned in 6s for years.[/QUOTE]
You just don't understand lol, even if he has the weapon, heavy will NOT be played still.
Pyro has twice higher chance to be somewhat more useful class for mid fights than heavy. Maybe If Pyro rolls shotgun and degreaser with powerjack.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53042351]You just don't understand lol, even if he has the weapon, heavy will NOT be played still.
Pyro has twice higher chance to be somewhat more useful class for mid fights than heavy. Maybe If Pyro rolls shotgun and degreaser with powerjack.[/QUOTE]
Could you show me some matches (videos preferably) where new GRU as well as Thermal Thruster (not necessarily simultaneously) have been attempted?
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042343]My laptop's fan has been broken for 4 months, and I haven't played TF2 since then. Go get Exor to do that for you. I won't have a computer until the week of the 21st at the earliest.
[editline]10th January 2018[/editline]
Because he has no mobility aside from a weapon that's been banned in 6s for years.[/QUOTE]
Well, that and the common complaint that Heavy wasn't fun to fight against and snipers often got ran for the sake of dealing with them. Both of which had an effect of slowing the pace of the game down in general. Which is one of the reasons GRU was banned in the first place, since it helped heavies get to mid faster, thus making it more common to see more heavies run to mid.
Can't say that this would effect all levels of competitive bare in mind. But these were fairly common complaints about heavy in 6's over the years.
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53042434]Well, that and the common complaint that Heavy wasn't fun to fight against and snipers often got ran for the sake of dealing with them. Both of which had an effect of slowing the pace of the game down in general. Which is one of the reasons GRU was banned in the first place, since it helped heavies get to mid faster, thus making it more common to see more heavies run to mid.
Can't say that this would effect all levels of competitive bare in mind. But these were fairly common complaints about heavy in 6's over the years.[/QUOTE]
And now that Snipers won't have to be run to take care of a GRU Heavy, since he'll have enough health to be taken out by spam or bombing, the game won't really slow down that much. Heavy takes out the bombing roamer, puts chip damage into mid-long range enemies, and the mid gets won (or lost, who knows, it's a 6v5 at that point though). Heavy regenerates the rest of his health, and proceeds to walk through choke to second, where he needs much less speed, as the enemy team will either be respawning, have fallen back to second, or fallen back to last. He should have his full 450 by then, at which point the enemy team might run a Sniper, something the team will be aware of, so the Heavy makes sure not to peek too heavily, maybe send in the roamer or a Scout to deal with the potential of a Sniper. etc etc
just some theorycrafting about a possible effect of GRU. I still want to see it actually attempted, though.
sidenote: I can't really confirm this on my own, but it seems like Heavy wouldn't need GRU at any time other than the rollout to mid, getting to the team after dying, and maybe running away if caught. Otherwise you just walk from hold to push to hold, as they aren't generally very large distances. You've got a really powerful weapon anyway, if someone goes for the bomb or chase. And if you did need to use GRU to get from fight to fight, you'd still have significantly more health available than the health you have at the start of that first midfight.
another edit: this change possibly makes heavy viable on koth maps (something i hope to see a proliferation of, though i won't get my hopes up) for 6s
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042448]another edit: this change makes heavy possibly viable on koth maps (something i hope to see a proliferation of, though i won't get my hopes up) for 6s[/QUOTE]
As long as there are no enemies your going to immediately face, there's nothing wrong with running GRU to get around quicker. Good position is important and tools like GRU help with that alot.
-snipapparently-
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53042501]Woah, I didn't know that. That's a pretty big deal.[/QUOTE]
Woops, I'm wrong... I just jumped into a match and it appears your health does drain a little even if the cap is still high...
hell-met did u just drop 100$?! haha
just got teh notification
[t]https://i.imgur.com/Q4hj4PT.jpg[/t]
It looks like he didn't spend the $100, he was the recipient.
[QUOTE=Ultravod;53042532][t]https://i.imgur.com/Q4hj4PT.jpg[/t]
:D[/QUOTE]
I just saw that as well lol... I got a screencap as well...
hot
Just asked b4nny on his stream if he thought GRU and TT could make Heavy and Pyro viable full-time with the new whitelist. He said maybe, but that the culture of 6s might prevent it from happening much.
Legit curious: What if Heavy's base speed matched Demoman's? How do you guys think his play would shift? Would it be too easy to get into position? Still useless to try and get to mid?
[QUOTE=Jonii;53042660]Legit curious: What if Heavy's base speed matched Demoman's? How do you guys think his play would shift? Would it be too easy to get into position? Still useless to try and get to mid?[/QUOTE]
Woah hey Jonii, let's take it one step at a time! If we're gonna talk about speeding up Heavy, we should start at Soldier's speed, since he's the next slowest class.
[QUOTE=Jonii;53042660]Legit curious: What if Heavy's base speed matched Demoman's? How do you guys think his play would shift? Would it be too easy to get into position? Still useless to try and get to mid?[/QUOTE]
What if Heavy moved at Soldier's speed while his minigun was put away? It's only a 10 HU/s difference iirc however. Now someone tell me why this is a bad idea lmao
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