[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53066414]Yeah, seems like it wouldn't do anything other than slightly empower long range spam. Is there a reason the idea appeals to you, Dr. Nick?[/QUOTE]
Mostly just because it presents a random and partially uncontrollable factor to fights which may not be necessary. But whether or not removing/adjusting it would be wise from a balance perspective I couldn't say for sure. Though I would be curious to see how big of an impact removing bullet spread entirely would have.
-snip, can't read-
[QUOTE=Dr. Nick;53066386]What do you people think of bullet spread when it comes to Pistols, SMGs, and Revolvers? Would they be too powerful for what they are if they always fired straight? Could the recovery time be reduced, say from 1.25s to .5? Would it be too gimmicky if bullet spread could be negated if you remained crouched for like 1s?[/QUOTE]
SMGs are already super accurate though. like ambassador-tier of accurate. revolvers are passable
only pistols would truly really benefit from that
[QUOTE=Dr. Nick;53066632]Mostly just because it presents a random and partially uncontrollable factor to fights which may not be necessary. But whether or not removing/adjusting it would be wise from a balance perspective I couldn't say for sure. Though I would be curious to see how big of an impact removing bullet spread entirely would have.[/QUOTE]
I see what you're saying. In this case I think randomness is ok though since it's virtually never going to deliver an undeserved win the way random crits can.
If you're not hitting due to randomness, in spite of good aim, that just means you're beyond the effective range that those weapons are meant to have. Working as intended.
If you [I]are[/I] hitting due to randomness, in spite of [I]bad[/I] aim, it's exceedingly unlikely that you'd hit with more than a couple bullets. It's true that it could make the difference in close calls, but I suspect that this is a very rare occurrence indeed.
It's almost like an additional layer of damage fall-off. Past a certain range, not only are your bullets doing less damage, but fewer of them are hitting. It's good because TF2 is (mostly) based around short-to-medium range combat.
[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53066741]I see what you're saying. In this case I think randomness is ok though since it's virtually never going to deliver an undeserved win the way random crits can.
If you're not hitting due to randomness, in spite of good aim, that just means you're beyond the effective range that those weapons are meant to have. Working as intended.
If you [I]are[/I] hitting due to randomness, in spite of [I]bad[/I] aim, it's exceedingly unlikely that you'd hit with more than a couple bullets. It's true that it could make the difference in close calls, but I suspect that this is a very rare occurrence indeed.
It's almost like an additional layer of damage fall-off. Past a certain range, not only are your bullets doing less damage, but fewer of them are hitting. It's good because TF2 is (mostly) based around short-to-medium range combat.[/QUOTE]
Sort of a maybe on this one. Falloff intensity could be increased to make up for any possible issues caused by this, and I think it would make those that are already decent at pistol/smg aim even happier.
the reason why damage falloff is a thing is because it encourages getting close and personal with your enemies, wich in turn rewards quick aim and good tracking. nothing beats that tingling sensation and rush of landing a direct hit with a burst weapon~
plus automatic weapons are utterly boring to fight agaisnt at mid to long range and encourage spam over good aim. its the reason you see so many newcomers go sniper and then inmediately resort to the smg - a high rate of fire weapon allows you to hit something, eventually, disregard of your tracking.
there is a reason why most weapons in ow are rapid fire hitscans.
[QUOTE=Dr. Nick;53066386]What do you people think of bullet spread when it comes to Pistols, SMGs, and Revolvers? Would they be too powerful for what they are if they always fired straight? Could the recovery time be reduced, say from 1.25s to .5? Would it be too gimmicky if bullet spread could be negated if you remained crouched for like 1s?[/QUOTE]
i could see there being some utility in a crouched heavy having perfect aim
it would mean he wouldnt be totally hard-countered by a sniper if he could mount himself somewhere that he could spray bullets at a distant sniper, but it wouldnt do a whole lot in the end
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/7qvsyf/what_are_the_most_annoying_weapons_in_the_game_at/dsthvx2/"]Apparently I'm an annoying weapon.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53066930][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/7qvsyf/what_are_the_most_annoying_weapons_in_the_game_at/dsthvx2/"]Apparently I'm an annoying weapon.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Be right back - I'm going to send an email to Eric asking him to nerf that weapon in a future update :v:
[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;53066947]Be right back - I'm going to send an email to Eric asking him to nerf that weapon in a future update :v:[/QUOTE]
I'm thinking -50% damage done and +20% damage taken while Lord Exor is playing Heavy.
That says more about how piss poor the map (Hightower) is than anything about the class. HT encourages the worst sorts of play styles. Don't go there and be surprised when they happen.
Hightower is a fun dick around map, but [I]never[/I] expect balanced gameplay on it.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53066930][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/7qvsyf/what_are_the_most_annoying_weapons_in_the_game_at/dsthvx2/"]Apparently I'm an annoying weapon.[/URL][/QUOTE]
who allows you to get 74 kills spawncamping on hightower? like, are people unaware of there being 3 spawn exits?
[QUOTE=Drury;53067039]who allows you to get 74 kills spawncamping on hightower? like, are people unaware of there being 3 spawn exits?[/QUOTE]
People dont know about the other 3 spawn exits on viaduct so its not that unlikely.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53066930][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/truetf2/comments/7qvsyf/what_are_the_most_annoying_weapons_in_the_game_at/dsthvx2/"]Apparently I'm an annoying weapon.[/URL][/QUOTE]
I do love you, Exor, but playing against you on Hightower with at least 2 Medics on you at a time (one of whom is almost always running Vacc) is kind of AIDS.
I don't requisition medical assistance, it simply comes to me. Truth be told, I'm not particularly fond of people that will only venture onto servers with a Medic friend in tow. If a Medic does not see fit to heal me, I will change my tactics as a Heavy and adopt a passive position. Of course, I would rather play Heavy completely independent of a Medic, but the numerous nerfs he's received over the years have made it a requirement if I want to play with a mobile and aggressive style.
And the Vaccinator is a problem in itself, regardless of which class is on the receiving end of the beam. You could get 70 kills alongside a Vaccinator pocket Medic with Scout, and that's not very enjoyable to face down either.
[QUOTE=Drury;53067039]who allows you to get 74 kills spawncamping on hightower? like, are people unaware of there being 3 spawn exits?[/QUOTE]
I didn't get those 85 kills by spawn camping the whole time, I only spawn camped when I was able to do so. Four heads, booties, and sticky spam is one heck of a combination.
I've played on Exor's server a few times and if you play on it a lot (like Exor does) I think you're going to get very good at the game. It's deathmatch Hightower with 32 player slots and fast respawn. There seems to be a lot of regulars who are really good at the game too. Anytime the server is decently populated there's good enemies everywhere nearly all the time. I don't play comp so I can honestly say that his server is the one that's probably put my TF2 skills to the test more than any other server I've played on.
I've also played some matchmaking with Exor and some of his server regulars once and skill wise we so far above the enemy team that we spawn camped the 3 exit spawn on Kong King so badly that we just completely shut down the enemy. I really felt bad for the enemy team because honestly playing against us just couldn't be any fun.
Did eric mean a real patch or just some item schema change? Would be odd to see a big boy patch on saturday.
[QUOTE=Fluury;53067194]Did eric mean a real patch or just some item schema change? Would be odd to see a big boy patch on saturday.[/QUOTE]
They've done big boy patches on Saturdays before. I could totally see them doing a real patch on Saturday for something like this though I don't expect the patch to have anything else.
[QUOTE=Dr. Nick;53066632]Mostly just because it presents a random and partially uncontrollable factor to fights which may not be necessary. But whether or not removing/adjusting it would be wise from a balance perspective I couldn't say for sure. Though I would be curious to see how big of an impact removing bullet spread entirely would have.[/QUOTE]
RNG isn't bad if it serves a legitimate purpose, CSGO has random spread and weapon inaccuracy, but that's in place to discourage tactics that make the game much less fun
I wish Needle Guns were better.
Make them heal 1(2, 5 on crit) hp per hit on teammate atleast, I never see anyone ever use needle guns unless It's a leonardo.gonzales.2004. Makes me sad
Valve, pls fix :(
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53067505]I wish Needle Guns were better.
Make them heal 1(2, 5 on crit) hp per hit on teammate atleast, I never see anyone ever use needle guns unless It's a leonardo.gonzales.2004.
Valve, pls fix :([/QUOTE]
how about make crossbow less stupidly good
or is it still "untouchable?"
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53067507]how about make crossbow less stupidly good
or is it still "untouchable?"[/QUOTE]
I mean yeah, I agree, crossbow just overtakes all Medic primaries. But I guess more people would use needle guns if they were as good as "crossbows"? I'll say it as a joke, but if needle guns could heal people 5 hp per needle while kritz, imagine kritzed medic raining down needles on teammates lmao. I know It sound stupid, but I just wish Valve could somehow change the needle guns. They're extremely hard to aim with and barely deal any damage If you are lucky to hit someone with them. They really need new mechanic to them.
Would it be bad to change most/all syringe guns to cross-bow style?
[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53067537]Would it be bad to change most/all syringe guns to cross-bow style?[/QUOTE]
Or just make them shoot needles in a straight line, not in arc.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53067540]Or just make them shoot needles in a straight line, not in arc.[/QUOTE]
and without the square random spread
please dont touch my crossbow its totally fair to heal 75 in an instant at all times at every part of the map with no skill involved :(
Long range crossbow skillshots are great but the close range burst healing needs to be nerfed into the ground
Medic primaries are in a really weird design spot. On the one hand, it's tricky to buff the syringe guns because they have a very specific design philosphy. They're unreliable damage dealers but have high DPS while retreating from someone who's chasing. Making them more reliable encourages players to shoot with the needle gun instead of healing, which we definitely don't want to do. Giving them a healing ability like the crossbow however makes them intrude on the medigun's territory, as they would both be effective at the same range. So buffing syringe guns AT ALL is a tricky proposition. They could definitely use passive reload but other than that I struggle to find a good way to buff them that wouldn't undermine the medic's basic design. I could see a small decrease in the bullet spread working out, but anything more drastic would encourage people too much to not heal imo.
So, no biggie, just nerf the crossbow, right? Well the issue here is that the crossbow, while totally overshadowing all other medic primaries, really makes medic a lot more fun to play. The healing adds a high skill burst healing ability to the medic, that raises the skill ceiling. The basic design philosphy behind the crossbow is that you trade close range DPS for long range damage and healing. The issue is that long range/burst healing is such a huge bonus that the downsides of lower close range dps don't stack up at all, especially when you also get long range damage to compensate.
I remember in the jungle inferno weapon balancing blogpost the TF team mention that trading healing reliability for burst healing was a pretty reasonable trade-off, as if they thought the crossbow should be balanced as a sidegrade to the medigun, rather than as a sidegrade to the syringe gun. It's pretty clear that nobody working on the TF team has been thinking about whether the actual downsides of the crossbow relative to the syringe guns stack up.
Anyway, the issue is that buffing syringe guns is risky and nerfing the upsides of the crossbow would make medic less fun. So I propose nerfing the crossbow by drastically increasing the downsides of it. Make it deal next to no damage at close range (like 20 damage) and mediocre damage at long range (60). This means that you're trading a lot of self defense and survivability for a powerful healing ability.
Tldr: nerf crossbow damage a lot
I'd say for starter remove the passive reload on the crossbow and change the arc and speed on the syringe guns to match the crossbox.
It's not so much that the crossbow is "stupidly good," it's just the best one compared to what it has to go up against - which isn't hard. Even if you removed the healing-on-teammates, it'd still be the optimal choice. The projectile can be aimed rather easily because the same fundamentals apply to several other weapons in the game so most people that can aim a Huntsman or Rescue Ranger can aim it as well, while syringe guns all have unique properties not seen in any other non-Medic weapon. Nearly invisible, kinda-fast moving projectiles that cannot be reflected and deal little damage - the only other weapon that would have ever been able to have these properties is the scrapped Nailgun weapon.
The Crusader's Crossbow cannot be changed too heavily without losing key features that makes it what it is, but Valve has experimented with reload speeds and the like multiple times over its lifespan. Syringe guns on the other hand are outright bad and every single threat to a Medic continues to be a threat unless they walk in straight lines. The only thing that has even less range than Medic's syringe guns are Pyro's primaries, but even Pyro has a way to deal with the Medic outside of that range with shotguns and flare guns.
1. Mad Milk Syringes on Blutsauger (and remove health-on-hit)
2. Speed bonus as a passive bonus and not an active one on the Overdose
2a. Maybe remove the passive bonus and make it a temporary speed bonus based on how much damage dealt with it in the last 15 seconds?
3. Tighter projectile spread on all syringe guns
4. High-visibility particles on the projectiles
5. Passive reload
Things like this compliment Medic's design philosophy of not dealing too much damage, but still being usable.
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