[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070754]I don't have to move through that area to travel around the map however.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but you have to stand directly in the choke point to cap.
The only maps I can think of that have choke points with no alternate paths are 2fort and Turbine.
Do I? Those maps grant me the choice of either going toward those areas, or traveling elsewhere for personal objectives; I'm not forced into committing to what the map or game wants me to do. Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070763]Do I? Those maps grant me the choice of either going toward those areas, or traveling elsewhere for personal objectives; I'm not forced into committing to what the map or game wants me to do. Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.[/QUOTE]
oh okay you're one of those players. I guess you enjoy playing Hightower matches that last 2 hours, because you have "personal objectives".
control points aren't "chokes".
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53070778]control points aren't "chokes".[/QUOTE]
Not on most maps, but the points on koth maps tend to have some choke aspects, as well as hightower, where you can only cap by standing in one small area for around ten seconds.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070763]Do I? Those maps grant me the choice of either going toward those areas, or traveling elsewhere for personal objectives; I'm not forced into committing to what the map or game wants me to do. Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.[/QUOTE]
Maps that encourage people to just run around deathmatching people, ignore the objective, and not play with their team are poorly designed. TF2 was designed to be a team game and the game shouldn't be expected to accommodate playstyles that it wasn't designed around. Otherwise you end up with awful maps like hightower where the map design doesn't encourage playing the objective, and like half the depth of the game is thrown out of the window. If players want a deathmatch game they can go play a deathmatch game (or custom servers with mods/settings to appeal to that playstyle), they shouldn't expect TF2 to be redesigned to accommodate their bland deathmatch version of TF2. By all means, if you enjoy playing TF2 like that, enjoy your 32 man hightower games. But don't go demanding that valve turns the base game into that, because it's not what the game was designed around and it's not what most of the playerbase wants.
I'm no friendly if that's what you're implying. However, my criticisms of game modes such as 5CP and the maps that are constructed around linear progression should not be dismissed purely because of what I personally spend my time doing in the game. I genuinely disagree with the concept of maps restricting players and manipulating their movements toward manufactured combat encounters. Instead, I prefer a more organic and open-ended approach to establishing rules and objectives, one that allows for multiple objective points around an area that allows for fluid and relatively unimpaired movement. Control Points as an idea do not need to function on a linear progression system, as games like Battlefield and Battlefront have exemplified. Yes, those games operate on a larger scale, but maps like Standin have adapted this philosophy well enough as a proof of concept.
What you're saying is that you like that the game holds the hands of the players and forces them to play in a particular way--that's a very cynical approach. The game should encourage player cooperation by imbuing within them a desire to work toward its objectives, a desire they develop on their own without the map funneling them into choke points and team fights. When I play on most 5CP maps, I feel like a sheep, with the map as my shepherd.
What you're asking for is what literally every game is in the AAA industry the past 5 years: Open-world sandbox free to choose your own objectives.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070784]I'm no friendly if that's what you're implying. However, my criticisms of game modes such as 5CP and the maps that are constructed around linear progression should not be dismissed purely because of what I personally spend my time doing in the game. I genuinely disagree with the concept of maps restricting players and manipulating their movements toward manufactured combat encounters. Instead, I prefer a more organic and open-ended approach to establishing rules and objectives, one that allows for multiple objective points around an area that allows for fluid and relatively unimpaired movement. Control Points as an idea do not need to function on a linear progression system, as games like Battlefield and Battlefront have exemplified. Yes, those games operate on a larger scale, but maps like Standin have adapted this philosophy well enough as a proof of concept.
What you're saying is that you like that the game holds the hands of the players and forces them to play in a particular way--that's a very cynical approach. The game should encourage player cooperation by imbuing within them a desire to work toward its objectives, a desire they develop on their own without the map funneling them into choke points and team fights. When I play on most 5CP maps, I feel like a sheep, with the map as my shepherd.[/QUOTE]
What do think of Upward, maybe Valve's magnum opus in regards to TF2 map design? It has big open areas for roaming as well as chokes, and every class has use on Upward.
My cursor began doing stupid shit in game, so I had to enable raw mouse input. Now my sensitivity is different and it's contributing to my bad aim.
[editline]edit[/editline]
Advice. I'm asking for advice, not just being informative. My Windows cursor speed is 7, and in TF2 it was 6. I'm using 9 in TF2 after enabling raw.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070784]I'm no friendly if that's what you're implying. However, my criticisms of game modes such as 5CP and the maps that are constructed around linear progression should not be dismissed purely because of what I personally spend my time doing in the game. I genuinely disagree with the concept of maps restricting players and manipulating their movements toward manufactured combat encounters. Instead, I prefer a more organic and open-ended approach to establishing rules and objectives, one that allows for multiple objective points around an area that allows for fluid and relatively unimpaired movement. Control Points as an idea do not need to function on a linear progression system, as games like Battlefield and Battlefront have exemplified. Yes, those games operate on a larger scale, but maps like Standin have adapted this philosophy well enough as a proof of concept.
What you're saying is that you like that the game holds the hands of the players and forces them to play in a particular way--that's a very cynical approach. The game should encourage player cooperation by imbuing within them a desire to work toward its objectives, a desire they develop on their own without the map funneling them into choke points and team fights. When I play on most 5CP maps, I feel like a sheep, with the map as my shepherd.[/QUOTE]
Maps like nucleus, hightower, standin, doomsday, etc prove that if you don't direct players towards an objective, they'll all head off in different directions and you'll never get proper teamfights (read: the core gameplay of team fortress 2). Say what you will about 5cp (thank you, don't mind if I do. It's a stalematey gamemode that locks out half of the roster and is over represented in competitive), but say what you will about 5cp, if it didn't "shepard" you into playing the objective, you'd probably go run off and camp the enemy spawn and never have a decent teamfight.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070763]Do I? Those maps grant me the choice of either going toward those areas, or traveling elsewhere for personal objectives; I'm not forced into committing to what the map or game wants me to do. Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.[/QUOTE]
yknow, now that you're saying this, it heavily recontextualizes a lot of your complaints about this game and the direction Valve is currently trying to take it.
[QUOTE=Talvy;53070798]My cursor began doing stupid shit in game, so I had to enable raw mouse input. Now my sensitivity is different and it's contributing to my bad aim.
[editline]edit[/editline]
Advice. I'm asking for advice, not just being informative. My Windows cursor speed is 7, and in TF2 it was 6. I'm using 9 in TF2 after enabling raw.[/QUOTE]
Raw mouse input is better anyway. Adjust your sensitivity to where it feels right. If it still feels weird after tweaking it's probably because mouse acceleration was on before. If that's the case then you'll just have to get used to it, eventually you'll probably come to find that raw input gives you better precision.
I'd really just like to hit my shots after playing like that for 5 years; but I can't because for some reason, it occasionally freezes without raw input.
I'll try my old Razer mouse... damn it, I just realized I originally used Synapse to set its sensitivity - which I really don't want to install on this PC.
People say that Synapse changes everything... great, now I'm stuck with Razer unless I want to relearn my aim, which still hasn't gotten better.
This is frustrating because I used to be good before I quit, and it should've come back to me by now.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070763]Do I? Those maps grant me the choice of either going toward those areas, or traveling elsewhere for personal objectives; I'm not forced into committing to what the map or game wants me to do. Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.[/QUOTE]
You can play the game badly if you want but don't complain that the game isn't suited to it.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070763]Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's what Casual is for. Chokepoints are pretty much a staple of map design though. Without chokepoints you become cp_orange. Without chokepoints, Snipers get free reign to do whatever. In 6s, the team plays together to achieve a common goal, and so maps with chokepoints that can be broken through with an ubercharge are a big part of that format. Also, every map you stated earlier have chokepoints in many places anyway. I think you'll notice that each of those maps is dominated by Sniper gameplay, unlike the linear, objective-driven maps you seem to loathe (the maps you favor being unsatisfactory exceptions to the rule).
I generally agree with you that Heavy should be buffed. I agree that Scout, Soldier, and Demoman are overpowered in many ways. My balance decisions are often inspired by the things you have to say. But I'll never agree that maps geared toward deathmatch are at all good for the game.
Pre-Jungle Inferno - Omg, can you stop spamming mouse 2 airblast, that's so annoying.
After Jungle Inferno - Omg, can you press mouse 2 to airblast, w+m1 is so annoying.
Anywho, any good Saxxy Awards Videos out yet?
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53070574]Has Valve ever explained why they won't release their Ms. Pauling or Saxton Hale models to the public?[/QUOTE]
SFM porn? Or maybe they hired someone from the outside to work in said model and can't release it due to legal reasons.
A good first step for bad maps would be replacing the standard version for the _pro ones.
[QUOTE=geel9;53070837]You can play the game badly if you want but don't complain that the game isn't suited to it.[/QUOTE]
Not even remotely my point.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070763]Do I? Those maps grant me the choice of either going toward those areas, or traveling elsewhere for personal objectives; I'm not forced into committing to what the map or game wants me to do. Players should have the agency to decide on playing the game the way they see fit.[/QUOTE]
since you want to be pedantic about it, you technically have the ability to A. not play that map and B. never go through the choke point and just do 'personal objectives' on your side of the choke
ridiculous complaint
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53070880]Not even remotely my point.[/QUOTE]
You're basing your criticism of choke points on your desire to play the game in a way that you shouldn't be playing it by design.
Why should anyone care about your complaint?
how did you even get into TF2 to begin with if the design philosophy of a control point is something you feel so passionately about, exor
I genuinely have no idea what your fixed version of TF2 looks or functions like, heavy changes notwithstanding. like if 32-player hightower is your baby, is the dichotomy that players can push a cart through one of two holdpoints or mindlessly kill
I don't get it :disgust:
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53070574]Has Valve ever explained why they won't release their Ms. Pauling or Saxton Hale models to the public?[/QUOTE]
Nope, I wish Valve would release more movies assets for SFM artists. I'd love to get my hands on their Expiration Date and CSGO assets.
The vox (half-life 1 text to speech and tfc announcer) edit of steamed hams made me wonder, what if a map had the vox voice in it in like a computer room? It's sort of like old 60s/70s speak and spell style text to speech.
[QUOTE=fendermcbender;53070915]how did you even get into TF2 to begin with if the design philosophy of a control point is something you feel so passionately about, exor
I genuinely have no idea what your fixed version of TF2 looks or functions like, heavy changes notwithstanding. like if 32-player hightower is your baby, is the dichotomy that players can push a cart through one of two holdpoints or mindlessly kill
I don't get it :disgust:[/QUOTE]
the hightower server he plays on has the carts removed. he plays deathmatch, basically. that's all he wants out of tf2
I hope we get the next balance changes blog post in april or may instead of june.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53070946]the hightower server he plays on has the carts removed. he plays deathmatch, basically. that's all he wants out of tf2[/QUOTE]
Hightower is pure dm. Exor wants turn Team Fortress 2 into Fortress 2.
[QUOTE=qubestf2;53070953]Hightower is pure dm. Exor wants turn Team Fortress 2 into Fortress 2.[/QUOTE]
About fifteen different pieces of the Exor Puzzle just snapped together.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/38hRyfO.png[/t]
[t]https://i.imgur.com/ZCiaGZ5.png[/t]
anyone else get this glitch? the unusual appears in my stomach no matter the adjust settings
Objective-based gameplay is literally the reason I have stuck with TF2 for so long. The very game design encouraging players to work together even in a casual setting is the reason it is one of the best multiplayer FPS's of all time. And to argue that this core element of its design is somehow a bad thing is simply [I]madness.[/I]
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