And by team fight, you mean two gestalts clashing with one another over a point of interest? I don't think that's all this game's core mechanics can and should support, nor do I necessarily believe that's the very foundation of TF2. If it were, then Scout, Demoman, Soldier and Medic would be the only classes that exist, since they're the ones that benefit most from the linear 5CP meta.
Exor said nothing about people ganging up on him.
[QUOTE=ScrimmyBingus;53071547]
lets just say it like this, it isnt a coincidence that people prefer upward and process over doomsday lol[/QUOTE]
Yes, being able to know the enemy team is generally in front of you instead of in all directions around you is comforting, and when it isn't like that it's often annoying. Wide-open map design requires you to constantly be in fear of an enemy from all directions, and that isn't fun.
I don't know, I personally find the latter quite thrilling in the same way frantic space battles are enjoyable to watch in Star Wars.
[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;53071522]I'm so sorry you just built a new computer, RAM and GPU prices are so high right now.
I'm planning on building a new computer soon but decided to wait a few months to see how the new Ryzen chips perform for their price compared to Intel and hope RAM/GPU prices come down.[/QUOTE]
Intel still has better single-core performance (though the gulf isn't as wide as it used to be), unless TF2 suddenly gets better multicore optimization I'd still stick with Intel unless you're doing streaming/video production
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53071555]And by team fight, you mean two gestalts clashing with one another over a point of interest? I don't think that's all this game's core mechanics can and should support, nor do I necessarily believe that's the very foundation of TF2.[/QUOTE]
Well that's a shame because that's literally what the game was designed around at its core, it's the entire reason classes like engineer, medic, and heavy exist, it's where half the depth of the game lies, and it's removal in favor of your "strategic" 3v3 fights all over the map with no front line or clear progression is never going to happen, and isn't something that valve, the comp community, or the casual community wants.
[editline]21st January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53071555]. If it were, then Scout, Demoman, Soldier and Medic would be the only classes that exist, since they're the ones that benefit most from the linear 5CP meta.[/QUOTE]
The 5cp meta exists because of problems with 5cp that your ideal TF2 shares. In your ideal world of standin being the model gamemode, generalists would rein supreme, because you have to switch between attack and defense even more rapidly than in 5cp. The sheer mobility needed to counter people capping A while you're at C would ironically make heavy utterly worthless in any semi competitive setting. Obviously the 5cp meta has nothing to do with linear gameplay because no other linear game mode suffers from that problem.
Oh well, suit yourselves. Half the reason I even played TF2 to begin with was due to its malleability and breadth of play styles. I stayed with TF2 and shunned [I]Overwatch[/I] because [I]Overwatch[/I] typifies your apparent ideal and brings it to an unbearable and intractable extreme.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53071582]Oh well, suit yourselves. Half the reason I even played TF2 to begin with was due to its malleability and breadth of play styles. I stayed with TF2 and shunned [I]Overwatch[/I] because [I]Overwatch[/I] typifies your apparent ideal and brings it to an unbearable and intractable extreme.[/QUOTE]
Trust me, we don't play 5cp because it's a stalemate-fest. I personally like it because of those moments when you break the stalemate and steamroll to the win. Engineer and Heavy are classes that, at the moment, protect against the enemy trying to break a stalemate (in other words, keep the stalemate). And Sniper and Spy are classes that break a stalemate in a pinch (even ubers).
[QUOTE=Contra132;53071572]Intel still has better single-core performance (though the gulf isn't as wide as it used to be), unless TF2 suddenly gets better multicore optimization I'd still stick with Intel unless you're doing streaming/video production[/QUOTE]
no but seriously single-core performance with Ryzen isn't great
[t]https://i.imgur.com/NLpGGyI.png[/t]
[URL]https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html[/URL]
the best ryzen processor for single-core performance is still beaten out by a modern i3 and an i7 that's multiple generations old
Ryzen's [B]multi-core[/B] performance is stellar, but in older titles like TF2 that don't have particularly good multi-core optimization, Intel is still your best bet
more benches: [URL="http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8600K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/3941vs3920"]Ryzen 5 vs i5[/URL], [URL="http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-1800X/3937vs3916"]Ryzen 7 vs i7[/URL]
[QUOTE=Contra132;53071596]no but seriously single-core performance with Ryzen isn't great
[t]https://i.imgur.com/NLpGGyI.png[/t]
[URL]https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html[/URL]
the best ryzen processor for single-core performance is still beaten out by a modern i3 and an i7 that's multiple generations old
Ryzen's [B]multi-core[/B] performance is stellar, but in older titles like TF2 that don't have particularly good multi-core optimization, Intel is still your best bet
more benches: [URL="http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-8600K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600X/3941vs3920"]Ryzen 5 vs i5[/URL], [URL="http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-1800X/3937vs3916"]Ryzen 7 vs i7[/URL][/QUOTE]
isn't there some massive security problem with all intel cpus right now
also, the cpu i'm getting is ryzen 5, it'll still run tf2 just fine
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53071608]isn't there some massive security problem with all intel cpus right now
also, the cpu i'm getting is ryzen 5, it'll still run tf2 just fine[/QUOTE]
fixes are being rolled out for Meltdown and Spectre, but they will come with a performance penalty, thus far just how much is unknown
Meltdown only effects Intel and ARM CPUs, but Spectre hits pretty much [I]everything[/I] manufactured in the last few decades, so AMD isn't that much better off
and yeah, Ryzen will still do fine in TF2, it just isn't the best for it if you're trying to push maximum frames and aren't streaming/rendering on the side.
[QUOTE=Contra132;53071617]fixes are being rolled out for Meltdown and Spectre, but they will come with a performance penalty, thus far just how much is unknown
Meltdown only effects Intel and ARM CPUs, but Spectre hits pretty much [I]everything[/I] manufactured in the last few decades, so AMD isn't that much better off
and yeah, Ryzen will still do fine in TF2, it just isn't the best for it if you're trying to push maximum frames and aren't streaming/rendering on the side.[/QUOTE]
The idea that new CPUs just don't run TF2 very well is sort of a misconception. When people who have these issues tell me their specs, they almost always are bottlenecking somewhere else (like ram or gpu). balance your rigs, people
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53071623]The idea that new CPUs just don't run TF2 very well is sort of a misconception. When people who have these issues tell me their specs, they almost always are bottlenecking somewhere else (like ram or gpu)[/QUOTE]
That's...not what I'm saying.
The fact is that TF2 and games like it depend more on single-core performance than multi-core. That is a straight-up fact.
Ryzen's age has nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm saying. Recent Intel CPUs, even budget ones, are great for TF2 thanks to their stronger single-core performance. You just won't see much of a performance difference, if at all, between an i5 and an i7, because TF2 (and most games, for that matter) can't utilize all of those extra threads.
Ryzen is weaker than Intel, across-the-board, for performance in TF2. That is a straight-up fact. I don't know why you're bringing other components into this, because that's not what anyone was talking about.
[QUOTE=Contra132;53071630]I don't know why you're bringing other components into this, because that's not what anyone was talking about.[/QUOTE]
just a tangent is all. the guy i was consulting with to make the part list i bought recently made it very clear that buying intel cpus was a bad idea, and that i should get the ryzen 5 since i needed single-core performance for tf2 (and other games)
how do you fix the shitfest 5cp devolves to when a team gets pushed to last?
[QUOTE=Fluury;53071647]how do you fix the shitfest 5cp devolves to when a team gets pushed to last?[/QUOTE]
Increase cap speeds and defensive respawn times on lasts so that teams are punished for having been pushed all the way back to last.
It will also help to quickly end unbalanced steamrolls.
[QUOTE=Fluury;53071647]how do you fix the shitfest 5cp devolves to when a team gets pushed to last?[/QUOTE]
beyond the simple problem of stacking engineers, which becomes a non-issue with class limits, I wouldn't say there's anything that needs to be fixed.
if you get pushed to last, then you deserve to have an uphill battle trying to recover.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;53071634]just a tangent is all. the guy i was consulting with to make the part list i bought recently made it very clear that buying intel cpus was a bad idea, and that i should get the ryzen 5 since i needed single-core performance for tf2 (and other games)[/QUOTE]
With ryzen you get better results out of what you pay, a ryzen cpu is usually better than an intel cpu at the same price, but over all intel still performs better, but the cpus that do are more expensive
for games, if you want the best you go for intel, but you're not getting the best value
Darn it I need to get these contracts done so I can get the Gold contracker and I am running out of time but for some reason my contracts stopped tracking progress, what am I supposed to do no-
[t]https://image.prntscr.com/image/Z9A1dvi_S1C0Bap31whgiA.png[/t]
okay then nevermind
[QUOTE=TWKUK;53071666]beyond the simple problem of stacking engineers, which becomes a non-issue with class limits, I wouldn't say there's anything that needs to be fixed.
if you get pushed to last, then you deserve to have an uphill battle trying to recover.[/QUOTE]
Ever watched comp and checked out what happens when teams like crowns land on last and then stack engineers and heavies to camp the shit out of Last for 10 minutes straight while everyone involved has a bad fucking time? Thats the 5CP problem; Why push out of last, risk losing the game, when you can wait for the enemy to mess up?
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53071665]Increase cap speeds and defensive respawn times on lasts so that teams are punished for having been pushed all the way back to last.
It will also help to quickly end unbalanced steamrolls.[/QUOTE]
If you were to do that, 5CP would devolve into a single mid-fight as usually second is already capped in respawns from mid. Making that time even quicker just makes you instantly win the game after wiping mid.
[QUOTE=ASIC;53071437]Does the "(Contract Points Contributed To Friends)" thing on the contracker work?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ph3onix;53071721]Darn it I need to get these contracts done so I can get the Gold contracker and I am running out of time but for some reason my contracts stopped tracking progress, what am I supposed to do no-
[t]https://image.prntscr.com/image/Z9A1dvi_S1C0Bap31whgiA.png[/t]
okay then nevermind[/QUOTE]
Speaking of concracts, does anyone need help with their contracts? I want to increase my score in the "(Contract Points Contributed To Friends)" category, and I don't have any points there so far.
I've ACTUALLY contributed points to few friends but it never leveled up that counter, is it broken or something?
Just bought Alien Tech MW war paint, doesn't even look close to what it looks like in War Paint showcase.
Dissapointment :(
[QUOTE=ASIC;53071791]Speaking of concracts, does anyone need help with their contracts? I want to increase my score in the "(Contract Points Contributed To Friends)" category, and I don't have any points there so far.[/QUOTE]
If you're from EU I sure wouldn't mind a little extra help doing bonuses for map contracts.
honestly I find 5cp worse than ctf overall, because at least fixing ctf is as easy as making the flag return on touch and adding a time limit to rounds, but what the hell are you supposed to do to fix 5cp?
[QUOTE=rolfum;53071914]honestly I find 5cp worse than ctf overall, because at least fixing ctf is as easy as making the flag return on touch and adding a time limit to rounds, but what the hell are you supposed to do to fix 5cp?[/QUOTE]
If you added return on touch and time limits on rounds 99% of pub CTF matches would end in a 0-0 draw.
[editline]22nd January 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=Contra132;53071572]Intel still has better single-core performance (though the gulf isn't as wide as it used to be), unless TF2 suddenly gets better multicore optimization I'd still stick with Intel unless you're doing streaming/video production[/QUOTE]
Yeah if I was building a computer right now I would certainly go with Intel. Since I've decided to delay due to prices (hopefully all those cryptocurrencies will crash and burn since those people are buying all the videocards) I have no problem seeing how the new Ryzen chips that come out in April stack up, I know they want to improve gaming performance though I have my doubts they'll be able to touch Intel performance wise expect in games that are heavily multi-threaded.
I'm glad that AMD is finally putting out quality processors again though, Intel needs some serious competition.
I don't think focusing primarily on DM is inherently bad, let alone doing on TF2. the good aspect of TF2 is that even if you focus yourself on ignoring the objetive you are still contributing to the overal goal by giving an opening to other players to do either the same or complete the map/mode's objetive - and this is particulary notorious on maps like hightower because you can fully commit to either one and there are plenty moments where you can prevent others from doing the same. and not only that, but also can be done by any class on any given time relying purely on your decisions on the fly - wich is something things like OW will not let you do it. wich is in turn what TF2 makes so solid in terms of gameplay: you are never, ever enforced to do anything, but you will get encouraged to do so.
[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;53071916]If you added return on touch and time limits on rounds 99% of pub CTF matches would end in a 0-0 draw.
[editline]22nd January 2018[/editline]
Yeah if I was building a computer right now I would certainly go with Intel. Since I've decided to delay due to prices (hopefully all those cryptocurrencies will crash and burn since those people are buying all the videocards) I have no problem seeing how the new Ryzen chips that come out in April stack up, I know they want to improve gaming performance though I have my doubts they'll be able to touch Intel performance wise expect in games that are heavily multi-threaded.
I'm glad that AMD is finally putting out quality processors again though, Intel needs some serious competition.[/QUOTE]
What I find interesting is that European GPU prices are about the same. I built myself a new gaming rig previous week and it cost me 215 USD. For you in Amazon it seems to cost min 280 USD. In Europe our computer parts always cost more than in USA, but it seems we switched places now.
[IMG]https://files.catbox.moe/xyqffj.png[/IMG]
this is the true crypto currency you should invest in
[QUOTE=ASIC;53071791]Speaking of concracts, does anyone need help with their contracts? I want to increase my score in the "(Contract Points Contributed To Friends)" category, and I don't have any points there so far.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to offer help to anyone who needs to get their contracts done as well, add me if you want any assistance. (Region: US West)
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