TF2 Chat and Speculation V5 - Merry Skinssmas - Games

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53078485]ok: the demoman was specifically facing only a heavy[/QUOTE] In a vacuum where both players are using their optimal damage-dealing weapons (ie Minigun and Sticky Launcher), Heavy and Demoman fighting each other with full undivided attention to one another goes in favor of the Heavy. Add terrain and that is in favor of the Demoman. If both are caught by surprise it depends on what range they are fighting in. As that determines how much time Demoman has to swap over to pipes without getting filled with holes. If you simulate the scenario where they just disengaged from another fight (ie reloading) Heavy wins. The catch is that you'll never get a vacuum situation with no terrain to speak of. But Heavy pretty quickly destroys Demoman in a straight shootout at mid-range and closer in open spaces, but then again so does most things. This is entirely disingenuous to [i]why[/i] your brought up the Demoman in the first place as an alleged answer to a mass of Heavies. To which this is patently false. Unless the Demoman is shitting out crits, he won't be able to deal nearly enough damage to cut through hundreds of points of health to stop the sheer amount of lead fury coming his way.

Showerthought: what would happen with the TF2 community if Valve doubled Heavy's HP to 600 and removed the L&W nerf? Edit: I don't want that.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;53078628]Showerthought: what would happen with the TF2 community if Valve doubled Heavy's HP to 600 and removed the L&W nerf?[/QUOTE] Game would become balanced and more fun.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;53078360]considering how amazing dragon's fury and thermal thruster are, valve still has the touch for new ideas and I trust heavy's update will be just as great. I expect a primary useable-on-the-move and a shield thing.[/QUOTE] barring viability behind unlocks is a bad move heavy needs changes that makes his stock loadout (barring shotgun since sandvich will always be more important) viable, not unlocks that supplement his weaknesses

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;53078628]Showerthought: what would happen with the TF2 community if Valve doubled Heavy's HP to 600 and removed the L&W nerf?[/QUOTE] You can't be serious

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;53078628]Showerthought: what would happen with the TF2 community if Valve doubled Heavy's HP to 600 and removed the L&W nerf?[/QUOTE] Heavy would be nerfed back into the ground ( probably even worse then he is now ) and probably never touched again... A buff like that would be on par with anything in this fake update in terms of actually quality control: [t]https://i.imgur.com/Y18acVQ.jpg[/t] Heavy will probably never get closer to generalist unless they change the foundation of the class, or at least give him a primary unlock that isn't as overly simplistic as the miniguns though... Other wise he'll just be another JI Pyro who takes little effort to get kills and get complaints up the rear afterwards..

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;53078628]Showerthought: what would happen with the TF2 community if Valve doubled Heavy's HP to 600 and removed the L&W nerf?[/QUOTE] I desperately hope you are attempting to be sarcastic

I'd probably start with some small Heavy buffs, like full accuracy and damage after 2/3 of a second of being revved, instead of one, and less damage falloff at range.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53078668]I'd probably start with some small Heavy buffs, like full accuracy and damage after 2/3 of a second of being revved, instead of one, and less damage falloff at range.[/QUOTE] I think not having to worry about reloading is still going to be an issue if you ever hope to see heavy becoming more then he really is though. As I mentioned above, all current generalist have to make shots matter because misses can mean the difference between winning and lossing fights, more so if they have to stop and reload. Heavy and Pyro don't have this issue as their weapons don't require any form of reloading and they can brush off misses much easier then the later.

[QUOTE=agrastiOs;53078628]Showerthought: what would happen with the TF2 community if Valve doubled Heavy's HP to 600 and removed the L&W nerf?[/QUOTE] As a neat little fun fact, in the [URL="https://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Team_Fortress_2_Beta#All_Classes"]TF2 Beta[/URL] when it existed, all of the classes' health was doubled in the January 11th of 2011 for testing and then the developers made it into a 25% health bonus before removing it altogether. Who knows what the purpose of it was, but they probably were testing which benefitted from more health the most. To answer your question, it would probably get stupid, with overheal boosting the Heavy up to a flippin' 900 hp and only Spy being able to instakill him.

[QUOTE=JugadorXEI;53078792]To answer your question, it would probably get stupid, with overheal boosting the Heavy up to a flippin' 900 hp and only Spy being able to instakill him.[/QUOTE] Not to defend such a ridiculous buff when plenty of things can be done to make Heavy more viable, I think Spy should be the only class that can always instakill. Remove Sniper or change him.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53078808]Not to defend such a ridiculous buff when plenty of things can be done to make Heavy more viable, I think Spy should be the only class that can always instakill. Remove Sniper or change him.[/QUOTE] People saying to remove classes irks me a bit, Valve would sooner sell all their assets to ea and start an antique rug business than change any of their games like that. Also I don't have much issue with Sniper, but if he was to be nerfed make it so that instant quickscopes do 100 damage.

Disabling the chat was the best thing I've ever done in this game.

I was looking at this reddit [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7sq1eu/whats_your_favorite_currentwarpaint/"]post[/URL] and had a eureka moment. I thought the Macabre Web paint had no alliteration or puns like other paints. But it does, Macabre Web Mah Cobweb Good job Valve.

[url]https://steamcommunity.com/id/lerpbynullcore[/url] Is this legit lmaobox "employee"? I just dominated his hacking alt on pub as a sniper. Outscoping a hacker, that's something.

allow me to chip into this heavy discussion. in my opinion, the heavy should play a bit like legion from titanfall 2. he should be the big motherfucker of the team that keeps his allies safe through tanking and relentless damage output. however, he has two main drawbacks. first, he's slow (obviously), and second, he will often be targeted by several enemies at once, making him require backup from his team. right now, I think the TF team has done a decent job at making the heavy play like that, but in my opinion, he needs a little bit more flexibility. idk how, but maybe make his minigun a bit more effective at longer ranges or something.

It was almost 2 months ago that I wrote this [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1503809&p=52928717&viewfull=1#post52928717"]Heavy balance post[/URL] in Weapon Fixing Megathread. Here's the first half of that post, with all the core changes that, if implemented, would make Heavy much more versatile in most situations. In the post you'll also find balance for all his weapons (I need to change FoS, though, since it's still banned in 6s). 1. Allow Heavy to switch weapons while spinning down. This would allow Heavy, if he needs burst damage, to get to his Shotgun fast enough to not be killed as is the case currently. It would also allow him to reach his Sandvich faster, allowing him to heal the Medic quicker. 2. Allow Heavy to do a little jump while revved. This jump is slightly shorter than the jump Heavy can do while he isn't revved. This would allow Heavy to dodge things that he couldn't before, or at least take less damage from, like rockets, stickybombs, pipes, and Sniper fire. 3. Increase Heavy's base movement speed from 77% to 80%. This would match his movement speed to that of the Soldier, still making Heavy the slowest class in the game, thanks to Soldier's incredible mobility with the Rocket Jump. 4. Increase Heavy's speed-while-revved from 37% to 50%. This would allow Heavy to be more in control of what hurts him from a distance, making Heavy's current situation of "living sentry" less the case. 5. Add a single bullet to the Heavy's Minigun spread, and make it shoot straight down the middle of the crosshair. This will give Heavy more consistency to his damage output.

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53078849]I was looking at this reddit [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7sq1eu/whats_your_favorite_currentwarpaint/"]post[/URL] and had a eureka moment. I thought the Macabre Web paint had no alliteration or puns like other paints. But it does, Macabre Web Mah Cobweb Good job Valve.[/QUOTE] explain for I am but a humble oaf

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;53078894]explain for I am but a humble oaf[/QUOTE] Tough Break added a skin called Macabre Web, a spooky skin with spider webs on it, it returned in Jungle Inferno as a MK.2. Most skins and cosmetics have alliteration and/or puns in the name, I thought Macabre Web didn't, but it does. Macabre Web/Mah Cobweb

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53078808]Not to defend such a ridiculous buff when plenty of things can be done to make Heavy more viable, I think Spy should be the only class that can always instakill. Remove Sniper or change him.[/QUOTE] I think sniper would have fit better if he wasn't focused around a 1 hit kill mechanic as well and was more of a mid field specialist when it came to combat. Accuracy and precision would still factor, headshots doing extra damage is a bit mute, although there could be benefits outside of "extra damage" for headshots that could factor I guess. Probably need a clip based rifle as well, allowing him to shoot multiple shots before having to reload. Scope not really needed IMO. Consistant shots would still deal damage relatively quickly, but not be as I mentioned 1 hit kill mechanics and give the enemy time to defend themselves as well. I doubt anything like that can happen now without screwing the game over.

Reduce sniper rifle base damage to 25 and buff reload speed or scoped-in move speed or charge rate or something.

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53078953]I think sniper would have fit better if he wasn't focused around a 1 hit kill mechanic as well and was more of a mid field specialist when it came to combat. Accuracy and precision would still factor, headshots doing extra damage is a bit mute, although there could be benefits outside of "extra damage" for headshots that could factor I guess. Probably need a clip based rifle as well, allowing him to shoot multiple shots before having to reload. Scope not really needed IMO. Consistant shots would still deal damage relatively quickly, but not be as I mentioned 1 hit kill mechanics and give the enemy time to defend themselves as well. I doubt anything like that can happen now without screwing the game over.[/QUOTE] As a guy who plays alot of sniper and done so in competitive, I die quite alot in pubs. My number 1 death cause right now is Pyro because he can completely block my view sight with those fucking broken flames. Also you can get countered by alot of classes, If you miss a shot at someone who is focusing you, let it be demo, soldier, scout, you're pretty much done for.

[QUOTE=qubestf2;53078970]As a guy who plays alot of sniper and done so in competitive, I die quite alot in pubs. My number 1 death cause right now is Pyro because he can completely block my view sight with those fucking broken flames. Also you can get countered by alot of classes, If you miss a shot at someone who is focusing you, let it be demo, soldier, scout, you're pretty much done for.[/QUOTE] The existence of a Sniper on the enemy team forces you to play very cautiously, else risk dying by peeking any chokepoint or shutter door. That isn't fun. [editline]24th January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;53078953]I think sniper would have fit better if he wasn't focused around a 1 hit kill mechanic as well and was more of a mid field specialist when it came to combat. Accuracy and precision would still factor, headshots doing extra damage is a bit mute, although there could be benefits outside of "extra damage" for headshots that could factor I guess. Probably need a clip based rifle as well, allowing him to shoot multiple shots before having to reload. Scope not really needed IMO. Consistant shots would still deal damage relatively quickly, but not be as I mentioned 1 hit kill mechanics and give the enemy time to defend themselves as well. I doubt anything like that can happen now without screwing the game over.[/QUOTE] simple: make huntsman the stock weapon, make it more viable (reduce hitbox size, increase projectile speed slightly (based on charge), other things), remove sniper rifles as a concept. now, the sniper has the upper hand in midrange combat, but not longrange since you can dodge the arrows.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53078988]simple: make huntsman the stock weapon, make it more viable (reduce hitbox size, increase projectile speed slightly (based on charge), other things), remove sniper rifles as a concept. now, the sniper has the upper hand in midrange combat, but not longrange since you can dodge the arrows.[/QUOTE] Valve will have a fun time explaining that who have invested a lot into sniper over the years this games has been running. Not just for the sake of costly items either, but people who took it upon themselves to get as good as humanly possible at the class on top of things.

Sniper as a class can work fine. It exists in almost every shooter game that is widely available, and is usually balanced just fine in other games. Taking it out would just be stupid, probably the stupidest idea one could suggest short of making his stock weapon the Huntsman. TF2's Sniper just has too much strength for too little output at a high enough skill ceiling, especially as it pertains to Medics. One of the most influential classes of the game can easily be one-shot and killed in one second without any recourse because of how outrageous Sniper's scoped-in headshot damage is. Either (short-term suggestion) make Sniper's headshots mini-crits instead of crits, or (long-term) reduce crit damage for headshots entirely. It's not a complex fix on paper. I've also posted a huge balance suggestion/rework of all Sniper rifles and a few of his secondaries and melee weapons on the weapon fixing thread, I'd be more than happy to share that here as well.

[QUOTE=Blackavar;53078988]The existence of a Sniper on the enemy team forces you to play very cautiously, else risk dying by peeking any chokepoint or shutter door. That isn't fun. [editline]24th January 2018[/editline] simple: make huntsman the stock weapon, make it more viable (reduce hitbox size, increase projectile speed slightly (based on charge), other things), remove sniper rifles as a concept. now, the sniper has the upper hand in midrange combat, but not longrange since you can dodge the arrows.[/QUOTE] And you think playing against anyone good at Demo or Soldier is fun? Do you think playing anyone GOOD at their main class is fun? Same can be said to any class pretty much. If there's a god soldier on the enemy team, there's nothing you can do about it or counter it. Even worse If It's a demoman. People grind their mains for a reason, to be good at them, not for other people to "have fun". Also your huntsman Idea is obviously a troll, which pretty much proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

I think some problems regarding crit damage could be solved if "semi-crits" were added. Crits do 3x damage, mini-crits do 1.35 times damage, semi-crits would do 2x damage.

make the dalokohs better be allowing you to eat it faster and on the go.

[QUOTE=Metaru;53079156]make the dalokohs better be allowing you to eat it faster and on the go.[/QUOTE] but why it's already the best secondary for non-pockets

[QUOTE=qubestf2;53079151]And you think playing against anyone good at Demo or Soldier is fun? Do you think playing anyone GOOD at their main class is fun? Same can be said to any class pretty much. If there's a god soldier on the enemy team, there's nothing you can do about it or counter it. Even worse If It's a demoman. People grind their mains for a reason, to be good at them, not for other people to "have fun".[/QUOTE] Aside from the personal attack, Sniper is inherently less fun to fight than any of the others, because the others have to be close to you to fight them. Sniper, from across the map, is simply impossible to do anything about, unless you're playing Sniper. A good Sniper isn't going to let someone jump him. The god Soldiers, and Demoman? They have a maximum range that you can stay out of. Sniper? If you see him, and you're a Medic or Heavy, you're probably already dead. That's not fun.