[QUOTE=Mould;53081755]Players not understanding or utilising the games movement mechanics to avoid being sniped is not a reason to nerf sniper. if you're being sniped often then you need to improve your movement. People don't get this because usually improving your chances against a class relies on hitting more shots, but there is no reason why improving your movement is any less valid of a way to fight players.
people love to complain about not being able to do anything about getting sniped, but in a world where people always hit their shots you're just bringing it down to a maths game where you can't anything as soon as you're in a fight where you're at a disadvantage, and tf2 has multiple ways for classes to initiate on you when you are. It's up to you to minimise the amount of times you get in disadvantageous fights and it's up to you to minimise enemy snipers opportunities to kill you
I don't understand why in the tf2 spheres it's socially acceptable to call people that get backstabbed repeatedly bad, but it seems to be widely agreed that getting sniped repeatedly is unavoidable. It's the same shit and both are marks of bad players[/QUOTE]
Not just that, but these balance arguments against Sniper are made as if the peak skill of a Sniper is literally aimbot, which is not the case. No human player can have or has the accuracy and reaction times of an aimbot- the very best Snipers in this game and other games still miss shots, sometimes even regularly. What differentiates a great Sniper from others is their ability to land more difficult shots and have a more consistent level of basic aim, not amping up to literal or near-100% accuracy. It doesn't happen.
And unlike a lot of other games that include snipers, this game has Soldiers and Demomen, who are able to rapidly close the gap and make themselves much more difficult to hit in the process. There's also Scouts, who are fast, small targets that can quickly weave in and out of sightlines, and Spies, who can avoid being seen at all until the moment is just right.
Arguing balance as if everyone is aimbotting is intellectually dishonest and simply not how the game works. Good movement and map awareness can counter even the best Snipers, because they aren't literal fucking robots. I've played against many a Plat Sniper and none of them are these unstoppable gods that Facepunch likes to argue they are, even in Highlander, which is arguably the best setting to play Sniper.
[QUOTE=Contra132;53081843]Not just that, but these balance arguments against Sniper are made as if the peak skill of a Sniper is literally aimbot, which is not the case. [/QUOTE]
When someone mentions that snipers have very little penalty for missing a shot, they aren't considering them to be aimbots.
It's not about sniper being some unassailable god-king of TF2. No one thinks this. It's about the impact that a good sniper has on a match: namely that it becomes less fun as significant portions of the map become off limits to anything other than the most tortured erratic movements.
[QUOTE=Mould;53081755]Players not understanding or utilising the games movement mechanics to avoid being sniped is not a reason to nerf sniper. if you're being sniped often then you need to improve your movement. People don't get this because usually improving your chances against a class relies on hitting more shots, but there is no reason why improving your movement is any less valid of a way to fight players.
people love to complain about not being able to do anything about getting sniped, but in a world where people always hit their shots you're just bringing it down to a maths game where you can't anything as soon as you're in a fight where you're at a disadvantage, and tf2 has multiple ways for classes to initiate on you when you are. It's up to you to minimise the amount of times you get in disadvantageous fights and it's up to you to minimise enemy snipers opportunities to kill you
I don't understand why in the tf2 spheres it's socially acceptable to call people that get backstabbed repeatedly bad, but it seems to be widely agreed that getting sniped repeatedly is unavoidable. It's the same shit and both are marks of bad players[/QUOTE]
Okay. You stand at the end of one of the game's many map sightlines with a non sniper or spy class, or better yet, the end of tr_walkway, and try to avoid getting hit while I snipe you.
If you're not a bad player as you've said, you should have no trouble avoiding damage, right? After all, a good player will dodge projectiles, kite aggressors, and leverage movement for everyone else, right?
Wrong.
It doesn't work like that. Your "minimize the amount of disadvantageous/kill opportunities" argument boils down to "don't stick around out in the open for too long", which is horse shit in a game about midrange combat.
Getting seen by a sniper is already a disadvantageous situation, as even with little to no aim skill you'll still take 150 to the body with your only defense being not appearing in the scope, which is impossible for everyone to do all the time.
These flawed "just dodge" or "get good/bad players" arguments are rubbish because there [I]are no[/I] anti-sniper tools to do this supposed counterplay with, beyond medigun or banner charges, which are far harder to create than the risk of getting bodyshot.
Im a terrible sniper, and i recall gunning down b4nny with bodyshots to the point of accidentally dominating him during one of his casual streams. Does that make him a bad player?
This game has no flashbangs. This game has no mortar strikes. This game has no smoke screens or deployable cover. This game doesn't have anything virtually every other modern shooter uses to balance out sniping as a mechanic.
That is why you are wrong. Sniper either needs to change, or the tools to counterplay him do.
I stopped meeting catbots, but instead I meet hackers with expensive items?
Did the catbots evolve?
[QUOTE=starblaster64;53080121]What exactly do you mean by "scripts"? From the Dev wiki page you linked previously it seems like they're just VMTs, which means you should be able to just put them in your custom directory in their respective folders.[/QUOTE]
scripts as in new vmt files in folders that are regularly packed into a vpk file. I dont know what's up, but whenever i try and add it to the custom folders, i dont get it working. i dont know if im missing something on my script, or if adding new scripts to a vpk file are something the game can support as custom stuff.
Snipers and Engineers are the ultimate signifiers of a good [i]map[/i]. If either is too good (or bad) then something's up with the map, and the best of map design has accommodations for both of them. If TF2 was filled with maps that would make Snipers incredibly overpowered and impossible to avoid the sightlines of then they'd be much more of a problem than they actually are. Of course, if you're playing MARIO_KART or cp_orange_rats_v3b that doesn't hold up and you see Snipers everywhere :v:
On the other hand, if a map is tremendous fun up until an engineer or sniper comes along, then maybe it indicates a problem with the classes.
There hasn't been a Valve made payload map since 2011's Barnblitz. What would you want out of a new official payload map?
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53081956]There hasn't been a Valve made payload map since 2011's Barnblitz. What would you want out of a new official payload map?[/QUOTE]
I want a new MvM map
You know, I kind of miss the pre-Jungle Inferno Panic Attack.
I wish it was split into two weapons like the Equalizer instead of one part of its concept being scrapped entirely. One weapon being the current, "whip it out instantly but can't shoot for too long" Panic Attack and the other one being the old "Beggar's shotgun" Panic Attack.
It was a massive gimmick, but it was fun to goof around with it as Pyro or Heavy and, hell, it was kind of decent on Engi.
Plus they could finally use that model that the Panic Attack had the killicon of at launch,
[url]https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=117833569[/url]
I still don't understand why they made it into a boring and weaker stock shotgun when the gimmick was fine and just needed a bit of tweaking and then continue on to make the brass knuckles into a worthless GRU Jr. when you will just equip the GRU over it if you wanted to be "I must accelerate faster" heavy anyways.
[QUOTE=ODSP;53082079]I still don't understand why they made it into a boring and weaker stock shotgun when the gimmick was fine and just needed a bit of tweaking and then continue on to make the brass knuckles into a worthless GRU Jr. when you will just equip the GRU over it if you wanted to be "I must accelerate faster" heavy anyways.[/QUOTE]
im glad they fufilled the role of what the panic attack was intended to be, but i do at times miss the sillyness of the original playstyle. of course if i had to pick, def would perfer what it is now, a quick resort weapon when in crazy circumstances
You really shouldn't ever pick or want the current iteration of Panic Attack over the previous iteration. It is literally worse than the stock shotgun and Reserve Shooter in every way. It fires more pellets but the pellets deal the same total damage, so if the enemy is further away you only do 19 damage where with the stock or RS you'd do 50. The spread is also much worse. It's not useful in any way. I can provide screenshots if needed.
Also, would somebody be able to help me out with my game's lighting getting darker whenever I screenshot?
Can we go ahead and rework the diamondback already? How about making it like the widowmaker: hitting shots allows the gun to keep firing without reloading but with a sizable downside for missing?
eg:
+on hit target: +1 loaded ammo
+on kill player (any weapon): +2 loaded ammo
-no reserve ammo
*you spawn with 6 ammo loaded which is also the max
*pressing R still plays the reload animation and makes disguises reload but does nothing directly with the weapon
An alternative could be leaving the reserve ammo intact and have each hit pull a shot from there. Reloading with R actually reloads but takes longer to do so.
Third possibility is making it even more like the widowmaker by having the ability correlate to the damage done; closer proximity shots reward with greater returns than those from further away.
What if the Panic Attack's spread was turned 90 degrees and tightened? The spread would then fit the rectangular shape of the player models.
Any change that tightens its spread would be more than welcome. Just tighten it about 50% and make its current spread the spread on the third shot in a row.
[QUOTE=Curly Bill;53082170]im glad they fufilled the role of what the panic attack was intended to be, but i do at times miss the sillyness of the original playstyle. of course if i had to pick, def would perfer what it is now, a quick resort weapon when in crazy circumstances[/QUOTE]
Personally, I rather have different varieties of shotguns then the stock shotgun with a bonus and nerfed damage to compensate for such bonus besides maybe the widowmaker, I feel like it's perks and aggressive yet careful of your metal playstyle makes it a lot different.
Like Rajikaru said, compared to the RS which has a 20% deploy speed, 4 shells with no damage penalty and no absurd spread Vs. the Panic Attack with a 50% deploy speed, -30% damage penalty, and a really absurd spread that makes it so you have to be literally up someone's ass for those increased pellets will do their potential max damage. The idea of the Panic Attack being a quick last resort weapon was already beaten out by the Reserved Shooter even without the whole main "mini-crit on explosive jumping" gimmick it has going for it.
Just had a truly magical moment a few hours ago. Was screwing around on a LazyPurple server, and a hacker came waltzing in. Of course, the first thing the creature tried to do was aimbot as Sniper, but every one had mirror mode activated (meaning the attacker kills themself), so the hacker constantly kept killing itself for several minutes. Then the whole server starts trolling the hacker, blocking it in spawn and spamming taunts at it while it futilely tries to grief the server-base, spinning around at 1400 RPM, changing offensive names on a dime and bringing in a new account every few minutes, and getting pissed off when it learns it was being recorded. Soon the Admins get in on it and start teleporting it into walls and such every time it respawns. This continues on for a whole half an hour and a map change of an entire server just antagonizing and griefing this hacker, to the point where it started renaming itself to pieces of "real life info" like social security numbers, name, and age in some insane, backwards reverse psychology attempt to grief. Whole server was sad when the fairy finally ran away for good, hoping it would come back for another session of Christmas. Hopefully a video of it will come out at some point.
TL;DR You hacked in the wrong neighborhood, motherfucker.
Good? news everyone, sooner or later TF2 as well as Steam and all Valve games besides Dota 2 will have to be updated to 64-bit as Apple is deprecating 32-bit programs on the Mac.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53082607]Good? news everyone, sooner or later TF2 as well as Steam and all Valve games besides Dota 2 will have to be updated to 64-bit as Apple is deprecating 32-bit programs on the Mac.[/QUOTE]
I would love to see TF2 as a whole updated to 64 bit using the Vulkan API for all 3 systems instead of DX8/9 for Windows and openGL for Linux/Mac.
Of course there's probably a tiny percentage of players who wouldn't be able to run 64 bit TF2 (and I do feel bad for them due to high computer part prices right now) but come on it's time to upgrade.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;53081874]Okay. You stand at the end of one of the game's many map sightlines with a non sniper or spy class, or better yet, the end of tr_walkway, and try to avoid getting hit while I snipe you.
If you're not a bad player as you've said, you should have no trouble avoiding damage, right? After all, a good player will dodge projectiles, kite aggressors, and leverage movement for everyone else, right?
Wrong.
It doesn't work like that. Your "minimize the amount of disadvantageous/kill opportunities" argument boils down to "don't stick around out in the open for too long", which is horse shit in a game about midrange combat.
Getting seen by a sniper is already a disadvantageous situation, as even with little to no aim skill you'll still take 150 to the body with your only defense being not appearing in the scope, which is impossible for everyone to do all the time.
These flawed "just dodge" or "get good/bad players" arguments are rubbish because there [I]are no[/I] anti-sniper tools to do this supposed counterplay with, beyond medigun or banner charges, which are far harder to create than the risk of getting bodyshot.
Im a terrible sniper, and i recall gunning down b4nny with bodyshots to the point of accidentally dominating him during one of his casual streams. Does that make him a bad player?
This game has no flashbangs. This game has no mortar strikes. This game has no smoke screens or deployable cover. This game doesn't have anything virtually every other modern shooter uses to balance out sniping as a mechanic.
That is why you are wrong. Sniper either needs to change, or the tools to counterplay him do.[/QUOTE]
If i sit in a small room with pyro, or any explosive class, and they killed me, is it because i set up an enviroment for my example that directly benefits my argument or because i wanted a realistic scenario where a sniper is often aiming at taking at several threats before beign exposed exposed (and most likely is exposed at any given point) will result in him killed? because in the nature of the one game that is tf2 where combat is focused in mid to close skirmishes he's one of the weakest classes that can be killed by anything and anyone close enough to kick his butt.
i'd believe your argument if we were talking about the huntsman, wich kinda negates the whole tantrum about snipers requiring actual precision in a world of rocket launchers, but truth to be told is, chances of being killed by a random, out of nowhere low level, low skill player with the default sniper rifle are close to zero given that sniper has to focus exclusively on his target to achieve an efficient kill.
"the game has no flashbangs, or mortar strikes, or smoke screens or deployable cover"
well, the game has flareguns with knockback, or rockets with knockback, invis watches, sticky jumps, ubers, crit resistances. and on top of that good ol agility to save your head from being clicked on. and these games have those mechanics to counter nonscoped headshots wich are certainly not a thing unless you're french and stinky.
seriusly, i can understand the frustration behind being killed by a sniper, but you're making such a damn fuzz about it as if snipers were the original sin and we should repent from it. but as much as you have to git gud to avoid snipers snipers too need to git gud at delivering headshots.
The Vaccinator exists toh
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53082607]Good? news everyone, sooner or later TF2 as well as Steam and all Valve games besides Dota 2 will have to be updated to 64-bit as Apple is deprecating 32-bit programs on the Mac.[/QUOTE]
I highly doubt that just switching tf2 to a x86-64 will bring any customer value at all.
[QUOTE=Mischail;53082760]I highly doubt that just switching tf2 to a x86-64 will bring any customer value at all.[/QUOTE]
Based on [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4ylmj8/tf2_update_for_81916/d6opq6l/?context=1"]Jill's reddit post[/URL] a year ago it seems like the OpenGL builds of TF2 have genuine memory issues. I'm guessing moving to 64 bit and Vulkan would fix that issue for those on the OpenGL builds.
[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;53082944]Based on [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4ylmj8/tf2_update_for_81916/d6opq6l/?context=1"]Jill's reddit post[/URL] a year ago it seems like the OpenGL builds of TF2 have genuine memory issues. I'm guessing moving to 64 bit and Vulkan would fix that issue for those on the OpenGL builds.[/QUOTE]
Making the game 64-bit would fix some of the game's issues, though simply making it 64-bit won't be enough. There are hardcoded limits (like number of entities) that would have to be changed to take full advantage of it. That, and the daunting task of rewriting half the engine for proper Vulkan function when Source 2 is in development would seem silly.
Moving to 64-bit would kill off a decent chunk of the playerbase running on toasters. Not sure how many people are still playing on 32-bit hardware, but I see enough requests for help on configs and whatnot that it would seem those numbers are significant. Switching to Vulkan would also kill off many players using [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Compatibility"]older GPUs that don't support it[/URL], even if it is based on OpenGL.
[video]https://youtu.be/K12FnA0o_pY[/video]
That ending compilation is quite something.
[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;53082944]Based on [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/4ylmj8/tf2_update_for_81916/d6opq6l/?context=1"]Jill's reddit post[/URL] a year ago it seems like the OpenGL builds of TF2 have genuine memory issues. I'm guessing moving to 64 bit and Vulkan would fix that issue for those on the OpenGL builds.[/QUOTE]
Ofcourse migrating to Vulkan will fix some issues, but just switching to 64 bit opengl will not.
[QUOTE=$shakes;53082990]Making the game 64-bit would fix some of the game's issues, though simply making it 64-bit won't be enough. There are hardcoded limits (like number of entities) that would have to be changed to take full advantage of it. That, and the daunting task of rewriting half the engine for proper Vulkan function when Source 2 is in development would seem silly.
Moving to 64-bit would kill off a decent chunk of the playerbase running on toasters. Not sure how many people are still playing on 32-bit hardware, but I see enough requests for help on configs and whatnot that it would seem those numbers are significant. Switching to Vulkan would also kill off many players using [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Compatibility"]older GPUs that don't support it[/URL], even if it is based on OpenGL.[/QUOTE]
I doubt the 64 bit thing will be a huge issue for 99% of the playbase, but I didn't realize the Vulkan API support wasn't there for some of those older videocards, that would probably be the bigger issue for a lot of the player base.
[QUOTE=Talvy;53082993][video]https://youtu.be/K12FnA0o_pY[/video]
The compilation at the end is quite something.[/QUOTE]
Interesting bit I guess... Don't really see the Hothand being that big of an issue, although having proper math implemented lol. Airblast bit was interesting... I actually still think it's over all better the what it was before. I'm also going to have to take a wild guess that the downward airblast was to combat ground stalling for easy combo's if I had to guess. Airblasting behind probably will never be an issue either even if it is stupid in concept though lol.
I'd still like to see the new airblast hitboxes though for the sake of it. Hard to judge something that is "invisible" and eyeballing it was never a good way to go about it.
[QUOTE=Curly Bill;53081896]scripts as in new vmt files in folders that are regularly packed into a vpk file. I dont know what's up, but whenever i try and add it to the custom folders, i dont get it working. i dont know if im missing something on my script, or if adding new scripts to a vpk file are something the game can support as custom stuff.[/QUOTE]
Off the top of my head:
• Double check you've got everything in the right folders.
• If you've created new replacements.vmt files, trying adding the directory they're located in to the /materials/replacements.txt file, if you haven't done so already.
• Make sure whatever maps you're testing have been added to the /cfg/mtp.cfg file.
If it still doesn't work, then I guess it's either that your VMTs are set up incorrectly, or the game just won't let you replace/add replacement.vmt files.
Could you perhaps throw up a download link for some of them for other people to test?
[QUOTE=Talvy;53082993][video]https://youtu.be/K12FnA0o_pY[/video]
The compilation at the end is quite something.[/QUOTE]
The Hot Hand's damage penalty [I]is[/I] -20%. However Valve has neglected to mention that its base damage is the same as the Bat's, at 35 damage per hit.
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