[QUOTE=Blackavar;53090331]Demoman and Scout are completely shut down by Vaccinator, as are most Soldiers (they're usually running Gunboats). In other words, it's not fun to play against.[/QUOTE]
Or you can swallow your pride and just run a Pyro...
Possible Vaccinator rebalance
+Patients get passive 15% (up from 10%) damage resist of which type is selected
+Ubers give the Medic and patients 2.5 seconds of 66% damage resist (down from 75%) and 100% crit resist both of the selected type
+Damage taken by your patients when you have the right damage resist selected directly builds Uber, at a rate of 15% Uber per 100 damage taken by your patient
-50% max overheal
-90% Uber build rate on overhealed patients
-25% Uber build rate
Didn't back then the Vaccinator used to heal you whenever the patient took damage?
[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;53090404]Didn't back then the Vaccinator used to heal you whenever the patient took damage?[/QUOTE]
v1 vaccinator was somehow deemed super underpowered for god knows what reason. I don't even remember myself.
[QUOTE=Metaru;53090255]yeah ban anything that kills me. dying fucking sucks.
[/QUOTE]
what a gross oversimplification
Thats bacily how balancing logic works for some people sadly.
"X kills Y when I use Z so it must be nerf!!!"
tbh I think the sniper wouldn't be half as annoying to fight if it wasn't for the Razorback. It's up there for one of the annoying items to fight in the game alongside the dead ringer and critacola.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53090278]What old style skins would you like brought back as war paint? I'd like:
Liquid Asset
Sandstone Special
Top Shelf
High Roller's
Dressed to Kill
Coffin Nail
Killer Bee
Red Bear
Butcher Bird
Airwolf
Blitzkrieg
Corsair[/QUOTE]
How would bringing back elite-grade legacy skins work? Make them a rare bonus unlocked case with the same drop chance as unsualfiers maybe?
I think a bigger problem with sniper is the shitty attitude a lot of "sniper mains" have.
My god I fucking love getting killed by a sniper named .:SH4D0W_3DGE04:. {ULTRACLAN} (TRADING UNUSUALS) across the map with a zoom in of his genuine lime green Anger and his Hale's Own Festive Killstreak Sniper Rifle that was totally not achieved by grinding in a achievement server for 18 hours that was named after his fictional girlfriend alongside some emo song lyrics in it's description about how sad life is or some crap complete with a profile picture of either an anime girl, a supermodel, or the world's edgiest SFM pose while they spam chat with lenny binds and insults so original and edgy they're in danger of splitting atoms in the local area out of pure cringe.
You know, your average pub experience.
[QUOTE=Whomobile;53090532]I think a bigger problem with sniper is the shitty attitude a lot of "sniper mains" have.
My god I fucking love getting killed by a sniper named .:SH4D0W_3DGE04:. {ULTRACLAN} (TRADING UNUSUALS) across the map with a zoom in of his genuine lime green Anger and his Hale's Own Festive Killstreak Sniper Rifle that was totally not achieved by grinding in a achievement server for 18 hours that was named after his fictional girlfriend alongside some emo song lyrics in it's description about how sad life is or some crap complete with a profile picture of either an anime girl, a supermodel, or the world's edgiest SFM pose while they spam chat with lenny binds and insults so original and edgy they're in danger of splitting atoms in the local area out of pure cringe.
You know, your average pub experience.[/QUOTE]
For the most part for me whenver I've seen great snipers in casual they tend to mostly be furries. Dunno why :pudge:.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53090278]What old style skins would you like brought back as war paint? I'd like:
Liquid Asset
Sandstone Special
Top Shelf
High Roller's
Dressed to Kill
Coffin Nail
Killer Bee
Red Bear
Butcher Bird
Airwolf
Blitzkrieg
Corsair[/QUOTE]
IMO i think coffin nail, and top shelf were such high quality, they deserve to only be used in speacialized custom war paints, similar to how the dragon slayer is. I think just having the pallette looping over is a bit tacky for such [URL="http://cartonofidiocy.tumblr.com/post/170254852586/designs-ripped-from-the-cigarette-decorated"]high quality designs[/URL].
[QUOTE=Whomobile;53090532]I think a bigger problem with sniper is the shitty attitude a lot of "sniper mains" have.
My god I fucking love getting killed by a sniper named .:SH4D0W_3DGE04:. {ULTRACLAN} (TRADING UNUSUALS) across the map with a zoom in of his genuine lime green Anger and his Hale's Own Festive Killstreak Sniper Rifle that was totally not achieved by grinding in a achievement server for 18 hours that was named after his fictional girlfriend alongside some emo song lyrics in it's description about how sad life is or some crap complete with a profile picture of either an anime girl, a supermodel, or the world's edgiest SFM pose while they spam chat with lenny binds and insults so original and edgy they're in danger of splitting atoms in the local area out of pure cringe.
You know, your average pub experience.[/QUOTE]
I literally never care about this and I don't think other people should either.
[QUOTE=Curly Bill;53090559]IMO i think coffin nail, and top shelf were such high quality, they deserve to only be used in speacialized custom war paints, similar to how the dragon slayer is. I think just having the pallette looping over is a bit tacky for such [URL="http://cartonofidiocy.tumblr.com/post/170254852586/designs-ripped-from-the-cigarette-decorated"]high quality designs[/URL].[/QUOTE]
Since Dragon Slayer on the Dragon's Fury has a special Pyro emblem, it seems they're saving custom textures for each weapon or special paints. Hope they let textures be modified slightly for normal paints in the future.
[QUOTE=Antary;53090562]I literally never care about this and I don't think other people should either.[/QUOTE]
Very rarely do actually good snipers act like that from my experience. They are usually just silent and destroy pretty much everybody while people call them aimbotters and hackers.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;53090584]Very rarely do actually good snipers act like that from my experience. They are usually just silent and destroy pretty much everybody while people call them aimbotters and hackers.[/QUOTE]
actual great players usually have zero cosmetic and they just look like default classes
(thought admitedly that's not very a good idea seeing as how throwaway cheating accounts also do that)
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53090590]actual great players usually have zero cosmetic and they just look like default classes
(thought admitedly that's not very a good idea seeing as how throwaway cheating accounts also do that)[/QUOTE]
They'll try to allude to people that they're not hacking by having a strangle stock rifle.
[QUOTE=Antary;53090562]I literally never care about this and I don't think other people should either.[/QUOTE]
This is probably the best way to handle it... Most of the time people use those obnoxious loadouts for the sake of reactions... If people would stop reacting to it they'd probably stop using them altogether...
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53090590]actual great players usually have zero cosmetic and they just look like default classes
(thought admitedly that's not very a good idea seeing as how throwaway cheating accounts also do that)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've been under the impression that's why a lot of people don't call me a hacker more often when I do relatively good on sniper in a short time span. All because I run a fairly pricy load out for the two main set ups I run with.
Someone running basic load outs will be fair more suspicious when sniping well...
Actually, that's a pretty common stigma regardless... How many times have you heard people make the claim that "this person has hats, he must be good!" after all?
[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;53090594]They'll try to allude to people that they're not hacking by having a strangle stock rifle.[/QUOTE]
Lol... I remember one trying to use that youtube views hat as a reason that he couldn't possibly be a hacker... Then I mentioned "can't you just use SAM to unlock the achievements needed to get that hat within seconds. Wouldn't it be more convincing if you had an actual unusual hat with value instead?", and one of his two buddies jump to my team and got me vote kicked off the server back during gunmettle lol.
With Sniper being a class that scales [I][B]TOO[/B][/I] well with the player's skill, I've always wondered how the top percentage of sniper mains see fun in the game anymore when their skill has gotten to a level where everything and everyone is from a spectator's pov easy mode for them. Because even with over-heal, every class in the game (minus heavy) dies in 2 quick-scopes which someone of that skill-level can easily pull in rapid succession.
[QUOTE=LegendaryR'QA;53090349]Or you can swallow your pride and just run a Pyro...[/QUOTE]
Pyro doesn't really solve the problem of the vaccinator, because he's not good at pushing on a lot of maps and actually taking in 3 damage sources instead also isn't generally that good for ubers anyway.
-
the vaccinator is essentially banned for the exact same reason as the quick fix is, it's too good in defensive situations but sucks at attacking, which makes it slow the game down severely, again. It's nothing to do with that it counters snipers, whatsoever.
you can draw really good parallels between them generally, but vaccinators main issues are due to the fact that it needlessly has different uber mechanics which allow it to essentially always nullify uber advantages. It acts like arrow building did, which if you followed competitive also made it a struggle to secure advantages for last pushing.
To be totally clear, here are the stats for building ubercharges.
Medigun - 40s w/ building - 80s w/o
Vacc - 36s w/ building - 72s w/o
This doesn't look too bad, except vaccinator also has another unique building property which means it builds even faster when players are below 100%. It then charges at 24s, which is grotesquely fast. That's 6 seconds for a bubble. This is the main problem, in my opinion.
Another thing people don't realise is that a full vacc charge is actually larger than a full medigun charge.
Each is 2.5 seconds, whereas a fat solo medigun charge is 8 secs + 1s fade time. Given that it takes a second to make your way towards the other team, we'll just call it 8.
That means the other team only needs 3 charges, to make your solo fairly bad, which takes 18 seconds to build. Sometimes it's 2 if the map travel time is bigger.
So that means you need 55% ad or moreto take a solo/double scout uber, but that is the worst case scenario possible. It's worth noting that on quite a few maps the double scout is the best uber you can get, so the fact that the vaccinator plays so well against this is actually somewhat a problem. 60% advantage is not easy to get.
If you bring in 2 people, the uber is 5.5 seconds with no fade time on the player who wasn't reached at 0%. It depends on your flashes, you can get more. In this scenario, the vacc user requires four charges to reach full nullification of your uber, which he reaches in 24 seconds, which means you need an ad of 40% or more. This is the best case scenario you can possibly have pushing last against a vacc.
It is unavoidable drilling through vaccinator because an alive heavy in position post ubercharge will wipe your team, so focusing on players who are not near the medic is usually not that good, they can kite you to or walk into spawn. It's worth noting that medics can also arrow heavies while they have the bubble on, which just makes things even harder. Usually during the post cleanup fight the medic will have more charges, for instance moving through panic room in process will give another bubble to apply. You cannot sack to force the medic, which leaves the attacking team with not many options to do much of anything.
-
Pushing with the vacc sucks because it gives bad overheals. It also blows for straight fighting because buffing your scouts intermittently is very important for fighting, so if you can't do that your chances of winning a dm fight are not that high. It doesn't matter if you have a soldier with a bubble because killing the players away from the medic becomes really viable in this position.
If you push with the vacc you have almost no gameplan apart from 'hope they try to suicide on the medic and take the point with numbers' which is just not going to happen.
-
Solutions:
1. Get rid of the additional vacc "crit-building", it's pointless and is way too harmful for uber economy.
2. Get rid of being able to arrow while bubbled. I think this is just way too much tankiness and makes characters borderline invulnerable.
I would maybe rework it to achieve this? Might be able to get a really high skill ceiling if you had it 'hold m2 for invulnerability to this form of damage on patient'? It would be really cool to time your m2s with rockets hitting or something, or changing it rapidly between being invincible to heavies and 0.1 of an explosive flash for each pipe coming your way. That's just my opinion though, I'm not really good at the whole ideas thing (according to others >:( )
-
Speaking of ideas, would people be happier if sniper shots went from 50-100 instead of 50-150? Removes bodyshot instas (which I still think aren't op) and nerfs ability to execute heavies somewhat via making the charge essentially slower?
guy adds me so I check his bp.tf:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/Nur1ADy.png[/t]
so the chat goes like this:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/hF1TYcc.png[/t]
I go to re-add him to ask him to validate my hats:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/bbzeVka.png[/t]
he blocked me. I guess I'll never find out if my hats are duped :(
Weren't in touch for a month. Any news? Or just silence as usual...
I have this weird vivid memory when I was screwing around with the tf2 models in the model viewer super long time ago. The pyro used to have facial flexes, but only on his eyes/goggle lenses and the only thing it do is slightly move the lenses in and out. Maybe I was seeing things since he doesn’t have them now.
i honestly have no problem with current pyro except for the fucking phlog and scorch shot combo that shitters tend to run rampant with in casual
[QUOTE=Ghostlier;53090755]guy adds me so I check his bp.tf:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/Nur1ADy.png[/t]
so the chat goes like this:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/hF1TYcc.png[/t]
I go to re-add him to ask him to validate my hats:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/bbzeVka.png[/t]
he blocked me. I guess I'll never find out if my hats are duped :([/QUOTE]
Reminds of me this guy who added me, and wanted to trade a steam wallet code for an unusual I was selling.
He couldn't give a consistent story on why he couldn't just use the code himself.
I just removed him after a little bit. Then I gave him -rep on his bp.tf profile, but it got removed.
Now he has a bunch of blatantly fake +rep on his backpack.tf profile.
I just experienced the most childish thing in MvM: So we made it to the final wave, and one of the 3/4 high tour players tries to votekick me cause i'm "not doing enough damage as an offense class", the vote fails and for the next few waves they decide to fuck over everyone because of me. I've seen people who are salty before in MvM, but these people were so salty that if they fell into Niagara falls all the water would be drained in an instant. It was like watching a bunch of children throw a tantrum in the server. Sometimes I wonder how people who act like this in-game are in real life :v:.
[QUOTE=Whomobile;53090532]I think a bigger problem with sniper is the shitty attitude a lot of "sniper mains" have.
My god I fucking love getting killed by a sniper named .:SH4D0W_3DGE04:. {ULTRACLAN} (TRADING UNUSUALS) across the map with a zoom in of his genuine lime green Anger and his Hale's Own Festive Killstreak Sniper Rifle that was totally not achieved by grinding in a achievement server for 18 hours that was named after his fictional girlfriend alongside some emo song lyrics in it's description about how sad life is or some crap complete with a profile picture of either an anime girl, a supermodel, or the world's edgiest SFM pose while they spam chat with lenny binds and insults so original and edgy they're in danger of splitting atoms in the local area out of pure cringe.
You know, your average pub experience.[/QUOTE]
Whenever I see a sniper like that I just bully them with the scorch shot :v:
If you're competent at avoiding headshots then it's hilariously easy to pull off.
Seriously the scorch shot just feels like the detonator set to easy mode, I wish it would be overhauled into something actually interesting
[QUOTE=rolfum;53090972]Seriously the scorch shot just feels like the detonator set to easy mode, I wish it would be overhauled into something actually interesting[/QUOTE]
but the detonator can actualy lift you,even though now with the thermal thruster it kinda got redunted at this point,it still has splash mini crits so that is something.
The Detonator's mini-crit splash range should be a bit more forgiving, and maybe add another aspect to Scorch Shot so it's a bit more unique. They do feel way too similar in their current state.
[QUOTE=CyclonatorZ;53090183]That reminds me of Cactus Canyon during yesterday's Facepunch event, where the Pyro named Gay Luigi mmphed his phogistinator and proceeded to kill over half of our team in about 2.5 seconds.[/QUOTE]
On cactus canyon?
That was me :(
[QUOTE=Hell-met;53090590]actual great players usually have zero cosmetic and they just look like default classes
(thought admitedly that's not very a good idea seeing as how throwaway cheating accounts also do that)[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://steamcommunity-a.akamaihd.net/economy/image/fWFc82js0fmoRAP-qOIPu5THSWqfSmTELLqcUywGkijVjZULUrsm1j-9xgEIUwUUSSTgqjFNg8DpAvazBOESnN97vchWgDM_xQAuNrHtNWMzKgHGBaZdBaI8pVm7DHZnuZFgB4Oz8bgALxKv6tVuE1t0UA/360fx360f[/IMG]
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