[QUOTE=starblaster64;52940136]As far as I'm aware, the VPhysics data on playermodels is only used for ragdolls, and if they're used for a prop_dynamic entity with VPhysics collisions enabled in a map. So it's not [I]that[/I] important that they be super accurate.[/QUOTE]
I figured as much; there's plenty of larger "holes" between each box which would obviously cause bullets to miss.
It just feels weird that they'd use such simple collisions for all classes except Sniper/Spy/Soldier.
[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52940137]
to be clear, I do not want this to be the case, you should need to aim to deal damage, this isn't the path I wanted them to take with pyro (ignoring the bug)
I'm not sure how it could be fixed, having damage be per particle might result in bad performance and bring some old bugs back, I wonder if each particle's speed got significantly increased would fix it, so that each particle is in contact with a player for much less time and flames would barely linger, it could fix the problem and require you to aim too[/QUOTE]
If they even just nerfed the damage of the direct flames a slight bit as a last resort I think it'd be fine.
the contrast is so massive with old flames where you basically had to control a 5 meter long flail around like a fuck
I'd say it's for the better. If Pyro has consistent damage, that means one of his core problems is fixed. Like I said, old Pyro was basically either Puff n' Sting or relegated to spychecking and utility.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940134]I saw a kill on a Heavy that wasn't looking at you, kills that were you just shooting directly at enemies walking into you while wiggling your mouse slightly before dying to a Soldier, and the enemies being so bad you could spawncamp them and they would still run into you. This isn't the kind of proof I'm looking for, and if you think it is, you're wrong. If the argument is at this point "wiggling slightly against enemies will always deal damage to them", no shit, it's almost like that's what the flamethrower is supposed to do! I don't see any gamebreaking shit of you spinning in a circle killing 5 people at once in that video. But, congrats on being matched up with newer players i guess, I'm sure that killstreak really proves me wrong, and if not the music sure does![/QUOTE]
I wasn't "wiggling" slightly. I wasn't even remotely attempting to track anyone in those clips, I swung my mouse back and forth as much as I reasonably could at my 5 inch/360 sensitivity. Also, I counted two Australiums, one unusual and one killstreak weapon in the last two clips alone. Newer players though, I'm sure!
I was outdamaging the fucking minigun without even a modicum of the tracking and aim required for that weapon. And I was doing it to multiple people at the same time.
At this point if you still don't get it, you're either obstinately refusing to see the point or too goddamn dense to. In either case, I'm done. Everyone's putting forth their best effort to show you how busted this is, but your responses just keep boiling down to "[B]nuh uh![/B]". Argue in good faith or keep your mouth shut and rate dumb like everyone else does.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940148]I'd say it's for the better. If Pyro has consistent damage, that means one of his core problems is fixed. Like I said, old Pyro was basically either Puff n' Sting or relegated to spychecking and utility.[/QUOTE]
Pyro's problems would've been fixed if valve made the old flame particles properly visible and dps was increased slightly. You should have to aim to some degree every gun in the game.
The point is people want fights to be based around what each player does with their aim and game sense.
meeting a pyro in this state essentially turns into a "beat the clock" minigame that is only played on the victim's side. Sentries already fill the whole "1 player vs 1 button" thank you very much.
like imagine if a soldier had a new banner that just hurts enemies nearby and needs nothing but activation. that sounds stupid right
old flames were still pretty good when lead and understood properly yet it was perfectly possible for horrible pyros to miss alot.
we need to combine the best out of both the old and new flame systems.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940154]I wasn't "wiggling" slightly. I wasn't even remotely attempting to track anyone in those clips, I swung my mouse back and forth as much as I reasonably could at my 5 inch/360 sensitivity. Also, I counted two Australiums, one unusual and one killstreak weapon in the last two clips alone. Newer players though, I'm sure![/QUOTE]
Just because they have shiny shit doesn't mean they aren't bad.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940154]I was outdamaging the fucking minigun without even a modicum of the tracking and aim required for that weapon. And I was doing it to multiple people at the same time. [/QUOTE]
You outdamage the minigun as the flamethrower by default! That's how the Minigun vs flamethrower works, because the flamethrower is short ranged and the minigun has longer range because it's hitscan! If the Heavy was actually staring at you and shooting at you before you got in range anyway you'd be dead even if you were wiggling.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940154]At this point if you still don't get it, you're either obstinately refusing to see the point or too goddamn dense to. In either case, I'm done. Everyone's putting forth their best effort to show you how busted this is, but your responses just keep boiling down to "[B]nuh uh![/B]". Argue in good faith or keep your mouth shut and rate dumb like everyone else does.[/QUOTE]
I don't just rate posts dumb and move on because little stamps on posts totally matter and muh internet points. The only posted I rated dumb was accidental.
And no, jumping on a pub is not "putting forth your best effort". Exaggerating situations, posting the same video that started this stupid situation even after I referred to it and then getting uppity because I didn't mention it again, and throwing passive-aggressive insults at me is not "putting forth your best effort", it's taking offense that somebody disagrees with you and getting riled up over it without actually trying to discuss rationally.
I'm not refusing to see any point, it's just that you're not making a point that doesn't lead right back to "If you walk into a Pyro, they kill you". It's as simple as that. Get some actual, substantial proof next time. And if internet points matter that much to you that that's your default response to somebody that disagrees with you but you don't wanna discuss with them anymore because "muh points are right!! youre just being contrarian!!!", find a new hobby. Have actual weight to your arguments or stop diluting communities with your shitty points that amount to "Pyro is easy because he has flames".\
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940161]meeting a pyro in this state essentially turns into a "beat the clock" minigame that is only played on the victim's side. Sentries already fill the whole "1 player vs 1 button" thank you very much.[/QUOTE]
Positioning. Positioning, positioning, positioning. Aim and game sense are not the only factors. in fact, one of the best counters to Pyros is sentries!
If you ran into a Pyro face first or they snuck up on you, they outplayed you, they didn't use some secret totally real gamebreaking bug where they spun around 5 times and instantly did your entire healthbar twice over. Pyro has the lowest stock mobility of any class in the game barring Heavy and Engineer, who will outdamage her if they know how to position and not sit in a room waiting for a Pyro to run up to them.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940164]You outdamage the minigun as the flamethrower by default! That's how the Minigun vs flamethrower works, because the flamethrower is short ranged and the minigun has longer range because it's hitscan! If the Heavy was actually staring at you and shooting at you before you got in range anyway you'd be dead even if you were wiggling.
[/QUOTE]
At close range, the Flamethrower should indeed outdamage the Minigun. The problem is that he isn't fucking aiming to do the exact same damage. You can see him waving the flames back and forth and doing the same damage he would if he were tracking. THAT'S the problem. To do maximum damage, your crosshair should be on the enemy at ALL TIMES. Just like you would if you were using the Minigun, Pistol, SMG, or any other automatic weapon. I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand, and why you keep digging yourself in this hole.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940164]
Positioning. Positioning, positioning, positioning. Aim and game sense are not the only factors. in fact, one of the best counters to Pyros is sentries!
If you ran into a Pyro face first or they snuck up on you, they outplayed you, they didn't use some secret totally real gamebreaking bug where they spun around 5 times and instantly did your entire healthbar twice over. Pyro has the lowest stock mobility of any class in the game barring Heavy and Engineer, who will outdamage her if they know how to position and not sit in a room waiting for a Pyro to run up to them.[/QUOTE]
pyros have 100% speed and flames have 3/4th 2fort bridge length. it's extremely easy to reach opponents into the "aura" even head-on.
The vast majority of maps don't actually look like cp_orange and consist of full fledged buildings and corners so yeah it's possible for really good players to suddenly come face to face with pyros at any moment.
to be clear I don't care about the new damage but the "reach maximum weapon potential by doing nothing" does tick me off. literally no other item in the game has this. Even engineer buildings need solid attention and placement.
I'm a pyro main btw.
also pblank miniguns aren't outdamaged by anything and never will or should, where are we getting this from?
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940181]At close range, the Flamethrower should indeed outdamage the Minigun. The problem is that he isn't fucking aiming to do the exact same damage. You can see him waving the flames back and forth and doing the same damage he would if he were tracking. THAT'S the problem.[/QUOTE]
[t]https://i.imgur.com/UEEjrgT.png[/t]
These are the furthest he wiggles from the Heavy in the video, and both last for literally 2 frames each. No shit he does the same damage, he's not even leaving the Heavy's hitbox.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940181] To do maximum damage, your crosshair should be on the enemy at ALL TIMES. Just like you would if you were using the Minigun, Pistol, SMG, or any other automatic weapon.[/QUOTE]
Why are you still comparing hitscan weapons to the flamethrower? Do you not realize that they aren't comparable at all or are you just trying to be annoying? I've said multiple times, the flamethrower isn't comparable to the minigun, or any hitscan gun, because it has a fixed range. The Smg you can still hit people accross the map or more than 5 feet away from you with! Guess what? You can't do that with the Pyro's flamethrower.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940181] I don't get how this is so difficult for you to understand, and why you keep digging yourself in this hole.[/QUOTE]
What hole? The hole of a bunch of facepunch users rating my posts dumb? Oh, heaven have mercy, what will I ever do? I got 40 funny ratings from posting an image of an e-mail saying something about sex.
It isn't difficult for me to understand. None of you seem to want to present any evidence that this is a real problem besides "look i'm slightly wiggling my mouse and the Heavy that isn't looking at me dies because he's in my flames! oh man this is just so broken!" I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, and if it wasn't clear before, I'll make it clear now: I don't care if you want to act childish and rate my posts dumb. They do nothing to actually aid your arguments.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940186]pyros have 100% speed and flames have 3/4th 2fort bridge length. it's extremely easy to reach opponents into the "aura" even head-on.
The vast majority of maps don't actually look like cp_orange and consist of full fledged buildings and corners so yeah it's possible for really good players to suddenly come face to face with pyros at any moment.[/QUOTE]
You can't really think exaggerating by saying cp_orange after you explicitly used 2fort as a balancing metric is valid.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940186]to be clear I don't care about the new damage but the "reach maximum weapon potential by doing nothing" does tick me off. literally no other item in the game has this. Even engineer buildings need solid attention and placement.[/QUOTE]
I'm a pyro main btw.[/QUOTE]
You're allowed to be ticked off by it. Doesn't mean it's a completely valid complaint. Not every class needs a skill ceiling that requires 100+ hours playtime on the class to get.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940186]also pblank miniguns aren't outdamaged by anything and never will or should, where are we getting this from?[/QUOTE]
Flamethrower Damage: Flame damage (close) 100% 13.0 / particle (173 particle p.sec) = 2249 dps
Minigun Damage (not accounting for spinup): 500-540 / per second = 500-540 dps
Straight from the TF2 Wiki.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940164]Just because they have shiny shit doesn't mean they aren't bad.[/quote]
at the risk of sounding like a smug prick, any player that I fight against as any class that isn't at least Low-Silver is "bad" to me. that's the vast majority of players in this game, and it's what happens when you start playing competitively. past a certain point it doesn't fucking matter whether they have 1 hour or 1000- it's going to end the same way.
what the fuck do you want me to do, open a TF2Center lobby at 2 AM Eastern and demand that players be at least Plat to be able to enter? I also specified "pub" when I initially proposed the video, not a Highlander team or whatever the fuck you want me to do this against.
[quote]You outdamage the minigun as the flamethrower by default! That's how the Minigun vs flamethrower works, because the flamethrower is short ranged and the minigun has longer range because it's hitscan! If the Heavy was actually staring at you and shooting at you before you got in range anyway you'd be dead even if you were wiggling.[/quote]
pretty sure the flamethrower was never meant to do over 300 dps
[quote] I don't just rate posts dumb and move on because little stamps on posts totally matter and muh internet points. The only posted I rated dumb was accidental.
And no, jumping on a pub is not "putting forth your best effort". Exaggerating situations, posting the same video that started this stupid situation even after I referred to it and then getting uppity because I didn't mention it again, and throwing passive-aggressive insults at me is not "putting forth your best effort", it's taking offense that somebody disagrees with you and getting riled up over it without actually trying to discuss rationally. [/quote]
I literally told you I would jump on a pub, jump into a group of enemies and flail around wildly to prove my point that it was effective. You challenged me to do what i said and i did it. Recording, editing, rendering (multiple times) and uploading took a good hour of my time that I could have spent doing anything else. But I did what I said I would because I'm arguing in good faith.
[quote]I'm not refusing to see any point, it's just that you're not making a point that doesn't lead right back to "If you walk into a Pyro, they kill you". It's as simple as that. Get some actual, substantial proof next time. And if internet points matter that much to you that that's your default response to somebody that disagrees with you but you don't wanna discuss with them anymore because "muh points are right!! youre just being contrarian!!!", find a new hobby. Have actual weight to your arguments or stop diluting communities with your shitty points that amount to "Pyro is easy because he has flames".[/quote]
Take another look at the video. Actually look at what you've been given. Note how rapidly damage raises on all of those players, despite the fact that my crosshair is rarely actually on their bodies. Minus the initial Heavy (I used that clip to show how quickly I decimated the Scout and Soldier following that despite failing to track either of them with my crosshair), there was no point where my crosshair spent any significant time actually on any of the players that i killed.
I can do this same highest-DPS-in-the-fucking-game-damage in any engagement, with no actual aim or tracking required. Literal flailing can do the job while also blinding my opponents and making it harder for them to aim back at me in turn. Those bright new flame particles sure are great!
Anyways, I'm not actually trying to rag on Pyro. I rooted for Pyro to get the buffs they deserved and my initial reception to this update was a positive one. But the current state of the flamethrower is a joke requiring no mechanical skill to speak of, and if you can't see that you're lying to yourself. Pyro is supposed to be strong in close quarters, yes, but not instantly fucking demolish every class in the game in under a second.
The only things that have a fair chance against Pyro in its current state utilized at its full potential are buffed Heavies with perfect tracking, Snipers at a distance and Direct Hit Soldiers who aren't getting reflected. Nothing else in this game can kill the Pyro fast enough to stop them from doing what they're doing. New flames blocking visibility and afterburn ticks causing aim to jitter is also a factor here.
[editline]2nd December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940208]Flamethrower Damage: Flame damage (close) 100% 13.0 / particle (173 particle p.sec) = 2249 dps
Minigun Damage (not accounting for spinup): 500-540 / per second = 500-540 dps
Straight from the TF2 Wiki.[/QUOTE]
You read that wrong. It's saying 173.3 damage / s, not 173 particles per second. If Pyro was actually doing 2249 DPS, he'd be dropping classes with a single tap of the mouse. If you had actually read the article, you'd have also seen this in the first paragraph:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7k6CeGh.png[/img]
[editline]2nd December 2017[/editline]
also I don't this info has been updated for jungle inferno at all
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940208]Not every class needs a skill ceiling that requires 100+ hours playtime on the class to get.[/QUOTE]
literally all of them will significantly improve with better tracking or leading except new pyro lmao. even old pyro did.
new soldiers or new scouts or new snipers can get routine kills but they have a very long road ahead before the constant airshots or meatshots or headshots (max potential).
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]at the risk of sounding like a smug prick, any player that I fight against as any class that isn't at least Low-Silver is "bad" to me. that's the vast majority of players in this game, and it's what happens when you start playing competitively. past a certain point it doesn't fucking matter whether they have 1 hour or 1000- it's going to end the same way.[/QUOTE]
Then you're proving my point. You played against low elo people and beat them by being a higher skill level. I'm a plat player and did the same thing today, I actually have almost an hour of footage of only playing flamethrower/jetpack Pyro. most people I killed by walking up to and holding m1 without moving. That's not impressive. It's expected.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]what the fuck do you want me to do, open a TF2Center lobby at 2 AM Eastern and demand that players be at least Plat to be able to enter? I also specified "pub" when I initially proposed the video, not a Highlander team or whatever the fuck you want me to do this against.[/QUOTE]
and I specified competent players. You didn't follow through on that promise.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]pretty sure the flamethrower was never meant to do over 300 dps[/QUOTE]
Cite your sources.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]I literally told you I would jump on a pub, jump into a group of enemies and flail around wildly to prove my point that it was effective. You challenged me to do what i said and i did it. Recording, editing, rendering (multiple times) and uploading took a good hour of my time that I could have spent doing anything else. But I did what I said I would because I'm arguing in good faith.[/QUOTE]
I literally told you to do it against competent players and actually flail around, not just wiggle your mouse like your hand's a bit tickly. But you didn't do what I asked. And god forbid you lost an hour of your precious time to prove a point. You aren't a saint for that.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]Take another look at the video. Actually look at what you've been given. Note how rapidly damage raises on all of those players, despite the fact that my crosshair is rarely actually on their bodies. Minus the initial Heavy (I used that clip to show how quickly I decimated the Scout and Soldier following that despite failing to track either of them with my crosshair), there was no point where my crosshair spent any significant time actually on any of the players that i killed.[/QUOTE]
I watched the video, multiple times. Your wiggling barely moved your crosshair away from all of them. I have eyes, I watched the video, your video proved nothing, you even admitted in this very post you were playing against lower tier people.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]I can do this same highest-DPS-in-the-fucking-game-damage in any engagement, with no actual aim or tracking required. Literal flailing can do the job while also blinding my opponents and making it harder for them to aim back at me in turn. Those bright new flame particles sure are great![/QUOTE]
This isn't an argument, it's venting frustration, so whatever.
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]Anyways, I'm not actually trying to rag on Pyro. I rooted for Pyro to get the buffs they deserved and my initial reception to this update was a positive one. But the current state of the flamethrower is a joke requiring no mechanical skill to speak of, and if you can't see that you're lying to yourself. Pyro is supposed to be strong in close quarters, yes, but not instantly fucking demolish every class in the game in under a second. [/QUOTE]
Then what, pray tell, is Pyro supposed to be in close quarters? Would you prefer we go back to pre-update where Pyro was useful for stuffing Ubers, killing Spies, and using the Axtinguisher?
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216]The only things that have a fair chance against Pyro in its current state utilized at its full potential are buffed Heavies with perfect tracking, Snipers at a distance and Direct Hit Soldiers who aren't getting reflected. Nothing else in this game can kill the Pyro fast enough to stop them from doing what they're doing. New flames blocking visibility and afterburn ticks causing aim to jitter is also a factor here.[/QUOTE]
This is actually hilarious in how exaggerated it is. Amusing, honestly. You killed a Heavy and a Scout that was in your personal space, and then spawncamped a bit, and I guess that means Pyro is an unkillable monster that will change the state of the game's balance forever.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940223]literally all of them will significantly improve with better tracking or leading except new pyro lmao. even old pyro did.[/QUOTE]
Because old Pyro did no damage. I thought we covered this. He was only useful as a utility class and to ruin Spies.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940223]new soldiers or new scouts or new snipers can get routine kills but they have a very long road ahead before the constant airshots or meatshots or headshots (max potential).[/QUOTE]
Same with new Pyros. The only difference is people don't know how to fight at a distance. You are not proving your points at all. Also, reflect kills, mind you? using the DF? Using the Degreaser? Or are all of those obsolete because new Pyro can kill a Heavy in half a second if he so much as glares at him?
[QUOTE=Contra132;52940216][editline]2nd December 2017[/editline]
You read that wrong. It's saying 173.3 damage / s, not 173 particles per second. If Pyro was actually doing 2249 DPS, he'd be dropping classes with a single tap of the mouse. If you had actually read the article, you'd have also seen this in the first paragraph:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7k6CeGh.png[/img]
[editline]2nd December 2017[/editline]
also I don't this info has been updated for jungle inferno at all[/QUOTE]
My bad, I read it wrong. Pyro still does 300 damage in 2 seconds according to the wiki. If it wasn't updated, then you update it.
At this point, I feel you guys would be better to move on as it doesn't seem like your going to change his mind even with hard evidence and facts supporting your claims. Not really worth the effort you put into it if he refuses to budge from his stance this hard yeah?
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940208]Not every class needs a skill ceiling that requires 100+ hours playtime on the class to get.
[/QUOTE]
That's the entire reason Team Fortress 2 is a good game. Pyro needs to have a massive skill ceiling, and issues like this in his design keep his skill ceiling from being high. He's always been the "no skill" class, and I really, really wish that weren't the case. Bugs like these just keep Pyro in that hole.
[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;52940231]At this point, I feel you guys would be better to move on as it doesn't seem like your going to change his mind even with hard evidence and facts supporting your claims. [/QUOTE]
Haha, oh man. If you think what they've provided is hard evidence, you're in for a world of surprise when you get a spam e-mail about an Indian Prince.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940233]That's the entire reason Team Fortress 2 is a good game. Pyro needs to have a massive skill ceiling, and issues like this in his design keep his skill ceiling from being high. He's always been the "no skill" class, and I really, really wish that weren't the case. Bugs like these just keep Pyro in that hole.[/QUOTE]
Damage aside, who says Pyro doesn't have a skill ceiling? Again, reflect. Again, Degreaser and Dragon's Fury. Pyro's airblast is one of the most complex and hard to master functions in the game. You can reflect kill Soldiers with their own rockets. Just because Pyro does a lot of damage up close doesn't mean he's completely void of skill.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940225]I'm a plat player[/QUOTE]
Oh really now? What's your Steam ID? Because that one on your profile certainly isn't it.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940237]Oh really now? What's your Steam ID? Because that one on your profile certainly isn't it.[/QUOTE]
Hey, psst, buddy.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/j45qOaR.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940239]Hey, psst, buddy.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/j45qOaR.png[/t][/QUOTE]
Yeah, I saw that. That's why I said that wasn't your actual steam id. because apparently your real name is jerry and you want the whole world to know.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940245]Yeah, I saw that. That's why I said that wasn't your actual steam id. because apparently your real name is jerry and you want the whole world to know.[/QUOTE]
It's a joke, get over it mate. If you want my steamid so bad, find it. Search functions exist.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940225]
Because old Pyro did no damage. I thought we covered this. He was only useful as a utility class and to ruin Spies.
[/QUOTE]
but uhh that's not true? old flames had big trouble reaching backpedalling targets but it still maimed anything fine in the hands of adepts.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940225]
Same with new Pyros. The only difference is people don't know how to fight at a distance. You are not proving your points at all. Also, reflect kills, mind you? using the DF? Using the Degreaser? Or are all of those obsolete because new Pyro can kill a Heavy in half a second if he so much as glares at him?
[/QUOTE]
primary fire is the maximum potential of pyro right now. reflects are situational, DF is inferior to flames and combos are now completely unecessary and maybe even trivial because of that thing everyone is talking about to you.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52940237]Oh really now? What's your Steam ID? Because that one on your profile certainly isn't it.[/QUOTE]
And now he's a plat player.
Really.
I've had some genuine laughs on this forum, but that one is by far the biggest I've taken. Jesus fucking Christ that's the long arm of the lawl right there.
Edit: it's been brought to my attention that his entire argument is based off of a single season of subbing heavy for a 1-6 plat team, about 8 seasons ago.
Case closed my doods, I've got nothing more to say.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940235]Pyro's airblast is one of the most complex and hard to master functions in the game.[/QUOTE]
If you said this 2 months ago, I would've just laughed and walked away. Anyway, current airblast disallows for the proper use of Degreaser combos, as it should be. Pyro's skill should come from tracking precision and positioning. Just like Heavy, but faster and with less range.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940225]Then you're proving my point. You played against low elo people and beat them by being a higher skill level. [B]I'm a plat player and did the same thing today[/B], I actually have almost an hour of footage of only playing flamethrower/jetpack Pyro. most people I killed by walking up to and holding m1 without moving. That's not impressive. It's expected.[/quote]
wanna uh
pass me that ugc page? the ugc community is pretty small, your name isn't ringing a bell and your linked steam profile isn't providing anything
if you can actually provide proof that you're a plat player, I'll do you a solid and stop arguing with you since you outrank me. though by 'plat player', I'm expecting you to have mained for a plat team within the past few seasons.
[quote]and I specified competent players. You didn't follow through on that promise.[/quote]
again, what am I supposed to do? call for a lobby at 2 AM? hijack control of Valve servers and kick everyone from my Casual game that doesn't have at least 2000 hours? what even is your definition of "competent"? the players did try to fight back against me, but couldn't for the most part to.
[quote]I literally told you to do it against competent players and actually flail around, not just wiggle your mouse like your hand's a bit tickly. But you didn't do what I asked. And god forbid you lost an hour of your precious time to prove a point. You aren't a saint for that.[/quote]
I flailed my mouse around as much as I could for my desk space and sensitivity. Are you going to argue that I was actually aiming or tracking any of my targets?
[quote]I watched the video, multiple times. Your wiggling barely moved your crosshair away from all of them.[/quote]
[t]https://i.imgur.com/PS4hpeO.png[/t]
[quote]I have eyes, I watched the video, your video proved nothing, you even admitted in this very post you were playing against lower tier people.[/quote]
the point I was proving is that flailing is an effective method for dealing high amounts of damage for little skill required
regardless of the targets, the video demonstrated that as true
[quote]Then what, pray tell, is Pyro supposed to be in close quarters? Would you prefer we go back to pre-update where Pyro was useful for stuffing Ubers, killing Spies, and using the Axtinguisher?[/quote]
uh, no? I don't mind the Pyro having the potential for this kind of damage output, but I don't think it's unreasonable to want him to fucking [B]AIM TO DO THIS MUCH DAMAGE[/B]. what parallel hellscape am I living in where aiming in a first person shooter is too much to ask for?
[quote]This is actually hilarious in how exaggerated it is. Amusing, honestly. You killed a Heavy and a Scout that was in your personal space, and then spawncamped a bit, and I guess that means Pyro is an unkillable monster that will change the state of the game's balance forever.[/quote]
I've played with and against this new flamethrower since the update came out, which is what I based that statement on. I haven't based the entirety of my opinions on the ten minutes I spent in a pub just now recording some quick footage for you.
Just move on and stop responding to him. He's bringing nothing to the discussion and just trying to rile everyone up.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;52940251]And now he's a plat player.
Really.
I've had some genuine laughs on this forum, but that one is by far the biggest I've taken. Jesus fucking Christ that's the long arm of the lawl right there.[/QUOTE]
You've strayed pretty far form the path of "Tf2 discussion", but since you're so desperate, [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/id/nerdkillaz/"]here.[/URL] [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/id/nerdkillaz/inventory/#440_2_4294701505"]Here's my medal as proof, O holy Arguer.
[/URL]
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940250]but uhh that's not true? old flames had trouble reaching backpedalling targets but it still maimed anything fine.[/QUOTE]
Then uhhh why did Pyro need an update? Were his old particles not consistent and problematic? Did that just not happen?
[QUOTE=Hell-met;52940250]
primary fire is the maximum potential of pyro right now. reflects are situational, DF is inferior to flames and combos are now completely unecessary and maybe even trivial because of that thing everyone is talking about to you.[/QUOTE]
I've been playing the game the past 2 months since the update came out. I'm not buying what people are trying to "argue" with me.
[QUOTE=windows098;52940254]Just move on and stop responding to him. He's bringing nothing to the discussion and just trying to rile everyone up.[/QUOTE]
If you're getting riled up over what I say, it's your own doing. I have done nothing but try to discuss this situation with people. There have been multiple other users that responded just fine and didn't have to resort to petty little name-calling or passive aggressive insults.
I'm here to discuss TF2. If you want to throw a pity party because you all think Pyro is too OP, have at it, but as far as I've seen the only proof is pubstomping.
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;52940255]
Then uhhh why did Pyro need an update? Were his old particles not consistent and problematic? Did that just not happen?
[/QUOTE]
you told us it did 0 damage and only used to track spies so I corrected you.
also FYI it's perfectly possible for something to be widely "accepted" even though requiring big changes. heavy is literally nothing but that since 2007.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Was warned." - Kiwi))[/highlight]
-snip-
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Was warned" - Kiwi))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Kiwi;52940261][B]Any more discussion about this from this post[/B] will be met with slaps on the wrists and being sent to the RC. [B]Enough.[/B]
If you can't discuss in civil in the public move it to private chats/PMs.[/QUOTE]
sorry kiwi
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