[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;52974897]Wasn't the PBPP supposed to always give 7 health on every hit?[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/6B3pD3N.png[/IMG]
I don't think so
[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;52974897]Wasn't the PBPP supposed to always give 7 health on every hit?[/QUOTE]
They're probably taking it down a peg now that it got buffed so much during the update. Same boat of problems as the old Black Box. Why return to a healing spot when you can just spam your gun and safely get a small healthpack's worth of health from a foe on the other side of the map? I'm glad they took notice of this issue a million times faster than with the aforementioned rocket launcher.
[QUOTE=notpingas;52974972]They're probably taking it down a peg now that it got buffed so much during the update. Same boat of problems as the old Black Box. Why return to a healing spot when you can just spam your gun and safely get a small healthpack's worth of health from a foe on the other side of the map? I'm glad they took notice of this issue a million times faster than with the aforementioned rocket launcher.[/QUOTE]
It was worse then the Black Box ever was honestly... Fast rate of fire, fast reload and +7 health on hit could mean getting back to full health extremely quickly. It's only real fault was how fast you burnt through ammo. It really need to be toned back lol. At a good distance you can heckle heavies to death without any real fear of dying from their bullets lol. I'm guessing it does damage based on how far away you are from the target? To encourage a risk vs reward type system of getting close, which can make you easier to deal with, but at the chance of fully recovering quicker?
[QUOTE=notpingas;52974972]They're probably taking it down a peg now that it got buffed so much during the update. Same boat of problems as the old Black Box. Why return to a healing spot when you can just spam your gun and safely get a small healthpack's worth of health from a foe on the other side of the map? I'm glad they took notice of this issue a million times faster than with the aforementioned rocket launcher.[/QUOTE]
is that not the point of a portable healing source? why WOULD you hunt down a health pack when you specifically chose to sacrifice killing power for on-the-go healing? stop acting like unlocks should play identically to stock weapons.
[QUOTE=ikes;52975024]is that not the point of a portable healing source? why WOULD you hunt down a health pack when you specifically chose to sacrifice killing power for on-the-go healing? stop acting like unlocks should play identically to stock weapons.[/QUOTE]
No weapon should entirely replace the need for healthpacks, as a map's gameplay is designed to flow around them. And besides, the new PBPP has no downside related to your ability to frag. Hell, the firing speed bonus makes it better at killing people than the stock Pistol, provided you get to reload safely. It deserves the nerf.
[QUOTE=notpingas;52974972]They're probably taking it down a peg now that it got buffed so much during the update. Same boat of problems as the old Black Box. Why return to a healing spot when you can just spam your gun and safely get a small healthpack's worth of health from a foe on the other side of the map? I'm glad they took notice of this issue a million times faster than with the aforementioned rocket launcher.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Although the black box, not so much.
The nerf the box needed was a cap on healing no matter how many enemies you hit, which honestly was the problem with it, high burst healing for mindless spam.
Instead, you now give up a quarter of your total damage potential for quite often single digit health gains, as even perfectly aimed shots can deal low damage, or be from long range. That's absolutely not worth it.
This is an example of a bad nerf, as all it did was make people use it with the conch, ironically the very same combo the healing changes were designed to make less useful.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;52975110]Agreed. Although the black box, not so much.
The nerf the box needed was a cap on healing no matter how many enemies you hit, which honestly was the problem with it, high burst healing for mindless spam.
Instead, you now give up a quarter of your total damage potential for quite often single digit health gains, as even perfectly aimed shots can deal low damage, or be from long range. That's absolutely not worth it.
This is an example of a bad nerf, as all it did was make people use it with the conch, ironically the very same combo the healing changes were designed to make less useful.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Soldier needs a weapon that gives him health-on-hit. The Black Box has always been either too weak or too powerful, without much in between. I think it should just be reworked entirely.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52975126]I don't think Soldier needs a weapon that gives him health-on-hit. The Black Box has always been either too weak or too powerful, without much in between. I think it should just be reworked entirely.[/QUOTE]
Health on hit supports a roamer play style and sustains aggression, both of which are good. The key is consistency and a fair trade off.
Between rocket jumping and direct combat, 15 health is a drop in a bucket, especially with your lack of an oft-finishing fourth rocket. It becomes pretty pointless with a medic around, and as long as it's capped at a sensible rate, say, 15 health no matter how many enemies you hit or something like that, it becomes actually an easier weapon to fight if you're good at movement or avoiding damage.
When this nerf happened i was dueling the demoman on our 6s team, and remember getting a total of 3 health back on a clean airshot just because he happened to be at low health at the time. Can't do any more damage than they have health right?
That's also why this nerf is sucks.
That was a nice little bug fix patch we got today. I honestly wasn't expecting anything before whatever we get for the Smissmas update so I'm happy to take it.
[editline]13th December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Koi_Pond;52974966][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/6B3pD3N.png[/IMG]
I don't think so[/QUOTE]
Does anyone know what the healing is based on now? Is it how much damage you do?
[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/7jolmo/warning_do_not_join_a_party_you_will_not_be_able/[/url]
Can anyone confirm this? I CBA'd to fire up TF2 at this hour.
[QUOTE]- Updated the Atomizer damage penalty vs players to -15% (from -25%)
- Updated the Thermal Thruster stomp damage on other players to be 3x the base fall damage - not the reduced fall damage of the owner[/QUOTE]
Surprised no one seems to give a shit about this - these are normal balance changes in a generic update
this could be the start of something beautiful
[QUOTE]Fixed the charge sound for the Stickybomb Launcher not stopping if the player switches weapons while charging[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, I noticed this bug like [B] three years ago [/B]
[QUOTE=C. Blades;52975137]Health on hit supports a roamer play style and sustains aggression, both of which are good. The key is consistency and a fair trade off.[/QUOTE]
Hmm... Well, you guys know my obsession with TF2 balance. Let's give this weapon one clean shot:
Black Box
(+) 10 health gained for every player hit per attack
(+) 25% increased blast radius
(-) 15% damage penalty
(-) 25% slower reload speed
Explanation: 10 health gained for every player hit on attack, with the 25% increased blast radius, means you can sustain yourself against a group of enemies for a while. This means that it's good for bombing the enemy. However, the damage you'd be doing against the enemy, if you were just flailing wildly with your aim, would be minimal. Then, once you ran out of rockets (of which you have 4 again), the reload speed downside would get you eliminated very quickly if your team didn't help you push in.
did jill just push out an update at 10:00 PM
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52975180]Hmm... Well, you guys know my obsession with TF2 balance. Let's give this weapon one clean shot:
Black Box
(+) 10 health gained for every player hit per attack
(+) 25% increased blast radius
(-) 15% damage penalty
(-) 25% slower reload speed
Explanation: 10 health gained for every player hit on attack, with the 25% increased blast radius, means you can sustain yourself against a group of enemies for a while. This means that it's good for bombing the enemy. However, the damage you'd be doing against the enemy, if you were just flailing wildly with your aim, would be minimal. Then, once you ran out of rockets (of which you have 4 again), the reload speed downside would get you eliminated very quickly if your team didn't help you push in.[/QUOTE]
You're adding too many stats onto the weapon. All it needs is to go back to original version but cap the hp on hit to be 15, and 15 only.
[QUOTE=DrCactus;52975198]You're adding too many stats onto the weapon. All it needs is to go back to original version but cap the hp on hit to be 15, and 15 only.[/QUOTE]
Too many stats? I'm giving it a proper purpose. If you want too many stats, you should look at the Shortstop if it were honest:
Shortstop
(i) Alt-Fire to reach and shove someone!
(i) This weapon reloads its entire clip at once
(+) 100% damage bonus
(+) 40% increased accuracy
(+) 40% increased firing speed
(-) 17% reduced maximum damage ramp-up
(-) 50% decreased reload speed
(-) 60% fewer pellets
(-) 34% reduced clip size
(-) 20% increased knockback taken
[editline]14th December 2017[/editline]
Black Box
(+) 15 health gained for every attack
(+) 25% increased blast radius
(-) 15% damage penalty
This slightly slimmer design would probably be fine though
[QUOTE=ikes;52975196]did jill just push out an update at 10:00 PM[/QUOTE]
party fix probably
[QUOTE=Blackavar;52975206]Too many stats? I'm giving it a proper purpose. If you want too many stats, you should look at the Shortstop if it were honest:
Shortstop
(i) Alt-Fire to reach and shove someone!
(i) This weapon reloads its entire clip at once
(+) 100% damage bonus
(+) 40% increased accuracy
(+) 40% increased firing speed
(-) 17% reduced maximum damage ramp-up
(-) 50% decreased reload speed
(-) 60% fewer pellets
(-) 34% reduced clip size
(-) 20% increased knockback taken
[editline]14th December 2017[/editline]
Black Box
(+) 15 health gained for every attack
(+) 25% increased blast radius
(-) 15% damage penalty
This slightly slimmer design would probably be fine though[/QUOTE]
Tbh THAT black box would be totally fine.
You don't even need the increased blast radius either with those stats. Just make it do something notably different than the stock, and have that thing be useful and fair to fight against, and bam, you've got a good unlock.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;52975110]Agreed. Although the black box, not so much.
The nerf the box needed was a cap on healing no matter how many enemies you hit, which honestly was the problem with it, high burst healing for mindless spam.
Instead, you now give up a quarter of your total damage potential for quite often single digit health gains, as even perfectly aimed shots can deal low damage, or be from long range. That's absolutely not worth it.
This is an example of a bad nerf, as all it did was make people use it with the conch, ironically the very same combo the healing changes were designed to make less useful.[/QUOTE]
I do agree with you that the Black Box needs a buff. However, I think it's in a better place now than it was ever before.
The old Black Box was super straightforward. 15 health gained per single person hit. That number got multiplied each time more than one person took damage, so it was a great benefit from fighting groups of enemies. I just don't agree on your opinion that it was the main problem to deal with when rebalancing. You see, being straightforward is a boon, but it carries the side effect of requiring little to no effort to get most out of your Black Box. That isn't true with the today's version.
The modern Black Box requires you to get close for the full benefit, rewarding things like aggressive play and the use of gamesense to know when to retreat. In it's on-paper ideal form, it's rational from a gameplay perspective and fun to both use and fight against. However, there is a wall between us and this Black Box of good balance. The risks outweigh the rewards by a mile, forcing you to either die a lot or retreat to a range where the healing is reduced to single digits, not unlike how you described the situation to be.
In conclusion, there must be rebalancing, but I'd like those changes to retain the thinking processes that the Black Box of today possesses.
As long as you make the upside useful in situations you commonly run across with the play style that the weapon creates then by all means.
Low damage shots and spam are a big part of soldier in competitive too. A good soldier named Vhalin pioneered the prenerf gun as a viable sidegrade there too.
However useful the black box might be, I don't think I'd ever want to trade attack power for a heal. Even if it's balanced, that style of soldier just doesn't seem as [I]fun[/I] to me. Trading that aggressive "jump in, murder everybody, and probably die but everybody's dead so fuck it" for the lower killing power of less damage or one fewer rocket and more survivability sort of takes away my favorite part of soldier. But of course that's just how I like to play the class, it's not an inherent design flaw with the black box just because it doesn't mesh with my playstyle.
[QUOTE=C. Blades;52975249]As long as you make the upside useful in situations you commonly run across with the play style that the weapon creates then by all means.
Low damage shots and spam are a big part of soldier in competitive too. A good soldier named Vhalin pioneered the prenerf gun as a viable sidegrade there too.[/QUOTE]
Players like Vhalin probably are the reason for why the Black Box has been accepted by the competitive community. It's been fairly quickly mapped out, recognized and effectively used by roamers without twisting the meta too much[I][/I]. A thumbs-up in that regard.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52975254]However useful the black box might be, I don't think I'd ever want to trade attack power for a heal. Even if it's balanced, that style of soldier just doesn't seem as [I]fun[/I] to me. Trading that aggressive "jump in, murder everybody, and probably die but everybody's dead so fuck it" for the lower killing power of less damage or one fewer rocket and more survivability sort of takes away my favorite part of soldier. But of course that's just how I like to play the class, it's not an inherent design flaw with the black box just because it doesn't mesh with my playstyle.[/QUOTE]
TF2 caters to most, if not all playstyles available. That's one of it's greatest upsides. There can be aggressive bomber Soldiers like you, and passive corridor Soldiers like me. Where ever the Black Box lands in terms of balance, hopefully it remains usable throughout the ages. The real problem with Soldier's arsenal these days are unlocks that serve no strong purpose.
[I]Looking at you, Liberty Launcher.[/I]
I wish that more sets had effects (cosmetic, of course). Like if the fruit shoot+huntsman set increased the likelihood of the sniper using lines like “that’s apples, mate” and “bloody fruit shop owners.” And the fast food fire starter set making you drop chicken leg gibs on death. Retro sci-fi sound effects for item pickups and other sound effects when using grordbort sets.
[QUOTE]Fixed a bug with the Backburner using its owner's angle to determine whether the attack is behind the victim[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ultravod;52974649]In the words of the late, great Bill Hicks: Dear God, thank you, thank Jesus, thank Buddha, thank Mohammed, thank Allah, thank Krishna, thank every fucking god in the book.[/QUOTE]
I bet two craft hats that this fix somehow broke either the Backburner itself, or the Backscatter, or Spy's backstab ability.
so last night I was playing MvM and on the last wave:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cnMEHjj.png[/img]
is this even a thing that can happen because excuse the fuck out of me
Edit: The Vita-saw's new organ-popping bit looks a whole lot like the changes I made on the weapon in my rebalance changes plugin that I did a few months ago, except in my plugin you also had to pick them up, so I won't be able to avoid trying to pick the organs up when I use the Vita-saw.
[QUOTE=Ghostlier;52975363]so last night I was playing MvM and on the last wave:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/cnMEHjj.png[/img]
is this even a thing that can happen because excuse the fuck out of me[/QUOTE]
Probably you killed the robot Pyro, then it switched to Demoknight on the next sub-wave and technically it was credited to the same bot, just with a changed name.
[QUOTE=Fluury;52975164]Surprised no one seems to give a shit about this - these are normal balance changes in a generic update
this could be the start of something beautiful[/QUOTE]
People whine that Valve doesn't do rebalances in normal patches and when they finally do it no one cares. Poor Valve.
I like having most rebalances in our big updates but I would like seeing occasional small rebalances in normal patches as well.
Kinda funny bug
I reported this more than 2 weeks ago, it was either buried with hundreds of other emails or there was no time to reply
since jungle inferno, If you disconnect from a server while on freezecam, the main menu, queue, inspecting taunts and all other sounds will be muted until you connect to another server or restart the game
I don't know the cause, when someone kills you and the camera zooms, all sounds are muted briefly until you're spectating, the game now forgets to unmute everything when you disconnect in that brief period
[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52975424]Kinda funny bug
I reported this more than 2 weeks ago, it was either buried with hundreds of other emails or there was no time to reply
since jungle inferno, If you disconnect from a server while on freezecam, the main menu, queue, inspecting taunts and all other sounds will be muted until you connect to another server or restart the game
I don't know the cause, when someone kills you and the camera zooms, all sounds are muted briefly until you're spectating, the game now forgets to unmute everything when you disconnect in that brief period[/QUOTE]
Sounds like the sound mixer isn't being reset from "FreezeCam_Only". You should be able to fix it yourself with "snd_soundmixer Default_Mix".
[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52975424]Kinda funny bug
I reported this more than 2 weeks ago, it was either buried with hundreds of other emails or there was no time to reply
since jungle inferno, If you disconnect from a server while on freezecam, the main menu, queue, inspecting taunts and all other sounds will be muted until you connect to another server or restart the game
I don't know the cause, when someone kills you and the camera zooms, all sounds are muted briefly until you're spectating, the game now forgets to unmute everything when you disconnect in that brief period[/QUOTE]
This happened before Jungle Inferno.
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