Well contracts are in all of valves three main games so they must be appealing to people.
Heroin is appealing to people. It doesn't mean there aren't better ways to have a good time.
[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53016622]Heroin is appealing to people. It doesn't mean there aren't better ways to have a good time.[/QUOTE]
Tons of aspects of business are based on exploiting the human mind for profit. I hate it, but that's the way the world works.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53016632]Tons of aspects of business are based on exploiting the human mind for profit. I hate it, but that's the way the world works.[/QUOTE]
No, that's the way [i]capitalism[/i] works. In a better world we won't be exploiting people for profit.
[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53016599]It just sort of seems like you're saying fun isn't satisfying unless there's some quantified confirmation that you scored +1 fun-point for completing your fun-chore. I dunno.
I understand that it's nice to have a goal to work towards and a sense of accomplishment, but I feel like the implementation of contracts so far really puts the cart before the horse.[/QUOTE]
I said not [I]as[/I] satisfying, not unsatisfying altogether. The game isn't sucked dry of fun for me if I don't have contracts, I just have a little more fun with the extra positive feedback.
Plus, aside from the stupid fuckin defense objectives and CTF contracts being a thing, the contracts don't really feel like a chore to me. They're fun little side-things to do that occasionally offer genuinely interesting challenges. It's not like blowing $60 on some Ubisoft open world game that turns into a second job where you're constantly filling out a checklist.
Contracts are quick, digestible and usually fun. The "quick" is the key part for me, and prevents it from becoming tedium. I used to have the energy to play TF2 for hours upon hours on end, but nowadays I cap out at around 90 minutes unless I'm playing comp, and even then that's a 2-3 hour investment that leaves me totally exhausted by the end. Contracts are conducive to the quick, pick-up-and-play sessions of TF2 that I usually go for nowadays.
I get if they're not your thing, but I certainly don't think they're [I]bad[/I]. Especially not bad enough to warrant being removed from the game, as Exor proposed and what I was (mostly) addressing. If anything, I'd like to see contracts be expanded upon with some more elaborate and fun strats than what we have now.
[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53016599]It just sort of seems like you're saying fun isn't satisfying unless there's some quantified confirmation that you scored +1 fun-point for completing your fun-chore. I dunno.
I understand that it's nice to have a goal to work towards and a sense of accomplishment, but I feel like the implementation of contracts so far really puts the cart before the horse.[/QUOTE]
Contra is all about the overly difficult, self-imposed challenge in TF2.
He's a Spy main, after all.
[QUOTE=Kincaid1;53015308]I will add.
[B]Haunted items, spells, spellbook pages, transmogrifiers, strangifiers, limited items, Medieval Mode, Special Delivery, Passtime, Mannpower, the Decal Tool, the old Festives, coaching, "sound-device" hats[/B] (like the Boston Boombox. The new Melody of Misery would've been perfect for this.)[B], coaching, and Strange Taunts [/B](of which there is only one.)
About 2 years ago I was actually in a server with NerfNOW. He had his Community Minigun out and like 3 pocket Medics.[/QUOTE]
Relatively sure Haunted items still were a thing last Halloween, no? Spells and spellbook pages were a one-year thing anyway, was anything ever really expected to be added to them? Same with Medieval Mode, Passtime, Mannpower, Decals, and Noisemakers. Added limited items, old Festives, Strange Taunts and Community items though.
[QUOTE=Mockingbird;53016622]Heroin is appealing to people. It doesn't mean there aren't better ways to have a good time.[/QUOTE]
I don't see how there's any relations between in-game contracts and Heroins. Kind of a jump. It's not an addiction thing, it's player retention. Play every day, get rewarded, it's as simple as that. It's not seedy or deceitful or greedy, it's actually smart and there are no clear cut problems. Or would you prefer we stick with the RNG-based item systems?
The game still has RNG gambling systems, so...
What changes would make tf2 perfect for you.
[editline]30th December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53016765]The game still has RNG gambling systems, so...[/QUOTE]
edit: in reply to this
I would much rather have Get 100 kills on *map* rather than the Defend cart/point bonuses.
Contracts are an amazing concept and their current implementation is brilliant - the contract [I]objectives[/I] on the other hand, arent.
The removal of bonus objectives might be doing the job. "Defend this, Defend that" objectives are extremely frustrating and the opposite of fun to work towards to - a more generic goal to work towards to is fun and feels like you have something to do, obviously it shouldnt be the main thing but it's a nice motivator to play the game and feel like youve got something to do. Loot Boxes do that in Overwatch.
I always thought TF2 could make use of a daily contract system where everyday, the player would receive a Contract or two to do for the day, that would be really cool.
Question is what the rewards should be, as having them valuable opens the entire bot issue but on the other hand makes the contracts way less exciting.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53016790]What changes would make tf2 perfect for you.
[editline]30th December 2017[/editline]
edit: in reply to this[/QUOTE]
I don't care about loot boxed microtransactions, although I would vastly prefer the ability to simply buy what I want without having to rely on third parties. You also don't want me to type another essay on all the problems with both this game, the team that "maintains" it, and Valve as a whole.
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53016842]I don't care about loot boxed microtransactions, although I would vastly prefer the ability to simply buy what I want without having to rely on third parties. You also don't want me to type another essay on all the problems with both this game, the team that "maintains" it, and Valve as a whole.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever sent them an email about your ideas for the game? Atleast then you would feel as if you "did all you could" and stuff..
Replace the weekly random drop system with a weekly random contract system. Rewards are the same unique weps and occasional hat or paint, but you have to do a couple of randomly-generated contract objectives to get them. Maybe one additional bonus drop after you're done all of the weekly contracts if you finish all bonus objectives
[QUOTE=Contra132;53016273]the defense bonuses are seriously the fucking worst
plus if they stop making objective contact for even a second- EVEN IF, SAY, PROPELLED BY SPLASH DAMAGE STRAIGHT UPWARD- it doesn't count. it's so tedious to grind it out.
nevermind the fact that if you're playing defense right, they're not even touching the objective...[/QUOTE]
I wish that it was like the Mercenary Park contract, with the first bonus objective having you capture OR defend a control point twenty times (still too much imo), and the second objective is win a round two times. This way you don't have players quitting because they're on the wrong team for attack/defense. Ideally I'd like all the map contracts to work like the Mercenary Park
[t]https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/927045630475588907/8F00127533D2460295BFF6DDAA7592F58140AE21/[/t]
mvm contracts wouldn't work for many reasons.
1. nearly all contracts would pull everyone down as they incite some gimmick or idiotic move
2. everyone just wants to be done with games as fast as possible, not wait to sort out full tomislav heavy games or whatever
3. literally zero sense of accomplishment since you can just refund or pick the easiest weapon whenever you want or give yourself godmode at will or w/e
4. it would be pure grinding and zero challenge. robots never hide like pussies and always expose themselves to guaranteed death so it's not hard to do specific goals on them. it's just a matter of time to even the dumbest player. there's no possible "hard thing" to do in mvm that doesn't involve doing it 1000 more times.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53016615]Well contracts are in all of valves three main games so they must be appealing to people with money that Valve wants.[/QUOTE]
ftfy
replace the "defend cart/point 12-15 times" bonus objectives with a "win on this map 4/5 times" objective
boom i just fixed contracts
[QUOTE=Cupkek;53016893]Replace the weekly random drop system with a weekly random contract system. Rewards are the same unique weps and occasional hat or paint, but you have to do a couple of randomly-generated contract objectives to get them. Maybe one additional bonus drop after you're done all of the weekly contracts if you finish all bonus objectives[/QUOTE]
Dont rip community servers of their last remaining system.
I'd prefer new MvM missions and maps rather than MvM contracts to be totally honest.
And I wouldn't even care if it were community made, there's some damn good custom missions and maps out there.
[QUOTE=Creeps;53016884]Have you ever sent them an email about your ideas for the game? Atleast then you would feel as if you "did all you could" and stuff..[/QUOTE]
Oh my sweet summer child...
[QUOTE=Lord Exor;53016980]Oh my sweet summer child...[/QUOTE]
I feel bad for you, your favorite game always gets changes that make it worse and it's made by a company you hate. :frown:
[QUOTE=Fluury;53016931]Dont rip community servers of their last remaining system.[/QUOTE]
Nah yo, I think it could work on community servers. It'd be pretty damn tough to program idle/farming bots to actually play the game
I think what the TF Team needs to desperately get into their heads is that a reinvention of the wheel isnt necessary in quite literally every Update; You dont have to do an MvM Update that expands massively upon it with func_vehicle trucks to drive around, just add two new community maps with new missions attached to them which give you Killstreaker rewards like Two Citities and a large portion of the community would fall into your arms.
I think it'd be cool if mvm got some sort of overhaul of the upgrade system, like if they made the disposable sentry upgrade cheaper and you could have like five of them, or if they actually added the option to buy damage upgrades for shotguns and non-demoknight melee weapons
I was thinking about the idea of replacing random drops with contracts for weapons. You are a new player that wants to play with the Direct Hit. Activate said contract and complete the objectives to earn the gun. Players, instead of reading about weapons and failing to understand them, will be able to learn throught gameplay how X or Y weapon mechanics work.
[QUOTE=rolfum;53017034]I think it'd be cool if mvm got some sort of overhaul of the upgrade system, like if they made the disposable sentry upgrade cheaper and you could have like five of them, or if they actually added the option to buy damage upgrades for shotguns and non-demoknight melee weapons[/QUOTE]
First they need to fix sentry firing speed
Basic outline of how (IMO) weekly weapon contracts would work:
You get 7 weapon contracts a week, each with the basic 1 primary goal and 2 secondary goals. Each contract is for a random weapon. The contracts are simple: Score points with the weapon equipped, earn kills and assists with the weapon, heal with the weapon, win rounds with the weapon equipped, et cetera. Vague enough to be generally completed within a day's worth of playing (3-4 hours, maybe more for the side objectives), but specific enough that bot accounts can't complete them.
Just like the JI/Pyro contracts, you get stars for completing the objectives. You can use the stars to unlock extra contracts, random war paints, etc much like you currently can (at max you could get maybe 5 or 6 bonus contracts a week through this).
When you complete the primary objective, you cash the contract in and get the weapon with a chance to drop a random low-tier war paint, a like 1% chance to drop a cosmetic or tool, the basic current weapon drop system essentially.
For players that already own the weapon, if it's in your inventory you have a slightly increased chance to drop something with the weapon. This allows players that already own most weapons to feel like they still have something to work towards.
There are also more specific and difficult contracts that can be bought with stars, like map contracts or class contracts that, when completed, drop a random weapon for that class.
spy mains since the update
[video=youtube;5ZbwhNEn8LM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZbwhNEn8LM[/video]
pyro mains dont interact
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