[QUOTE=meharryp;53161349]This is misleading, BLACKM3SA is allegedly a mapper for HDTF and the guy that is blacked out is just some random trying to decompile a map.[/QUOTE]
I was the guy who originally posted that (not the blacked out name, but the person who screengrabbed that).
If you're wondering of context, the person with the blacked out name was only decompiling the map to fix it up for SFM use with harmless intent, so I didn't want them to be involved with the game.
This whole shitshow genuinely makes me want to work on a game I've been amassing ideas and thinking of art assets to draw for the last few months.
[QUOTE=Mattchewy;53162156][video=youtube;2ddWwjTLWl4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ddWwjTLWl4&feature=youtu.be[/video][/QUOTE]
I'd die to see Steamed Hams HDTF Edition
[QUOTE=B.J.;53162185]I'd die to see Steamed Hams HDTF Edition[/QUOTE]
I reckon you won't need to wait long for it to happen. Prolly somebody somewhere is already making it as we post
[QUOTE=RaraKnight;53158060][t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413757278974378003/417138234666123264/unknown.png[/t]
This cone model found in the files has over 8k polys.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RaraKnight;53158066][t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/413757278974378003/417139085497335809/unknown.png[/t]
It's used all over Black Mesa which seems to actually be a source of some of the studdering.
We replaced the cone model with a one from CS:S with only a hundred or so polys and the studdering pretty much stopped in a lot of areas[/QUOTE]
8k isn't much at all. Hero vehicles in games now are expected to be at least 100k. Weapons at least 20k. Horizon Zero Dawn's largest robot crittters are pushing 800k, and with active subdivision, most games have assets which at rendertime are in the millions. And as for source, the dispenser in live TF2 is 2-3 times the cost of that cone with no lods. And I have all sorts of assets in source that are 10-18k no problem.
[T]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227571650609152000/414194197600534539/unknown.png[/T]
This thing's 12k with a bottom lod of 800 triangles, and you can have several visible at once without any issues. No reason on god's green earth the cone should be anything over than 200 faces, but tricount isn't the problem.
Can you show the phys model? I suspect they didn't make one for it, source shrinkwrapped it and went "oh it's a 360 sided circle, perfect", and that's the real source of your slowdowns. I'll also bet that there's no lods either, but that's just lazy, not game breaking.
If someone wants to go through the game with "Vcollide_wireframe 1" on, i'm sure that'll be a real horror show.
Was this posted, yet?
[video]https://youtu.be/v0-mZy0qupg[/video]
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53162220]8k isn't much at all. Hero vehicles in games now are expected to be at least 100k. Weapons at least 20k. Horizon Zero Dawn's largest robot crittters are pushing 800k, and with active subdivision, most games have assets which at rendertime are in the millions. And as for source, the dispenser in live TF2 is 2-3 times the cost of that cone with no lods. And I have all sorts of assets in source that are 10-18k no problem.
[T]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227571650609152000/414194197600534539/unknown.png[/T]
This thing's 12k with a bottom lod of 800 triangles, and you can have several visible at once without any issues. No reason on god's green earth the cone should be anything over than 200 faces, but tricount isn't the problem.
Can you show the phys model? I suspect they didn't make one for it, source shrinkwrapped it and went "oh it's a 360 sided circle, perfect", and that's the real source of your slowdowns. I'll also bet that there's no lods either, but that's just lazy, not game breaking.
If someone wants to go through the game with "Vcollide_wireframe 1" on, i'm sure that'll be a real horror show.[/QUOTE]
You're comparing a street cone that's basicely 2 welded primitives, to a car and some of the most detailed mechas ever seen in a game.
Yes there's unique hero models with high polycounts in games today, but this amount of wasted polygons on an prop that's potentialy spammed everywhere in a level is just objectively terrible modeling. Especialy in source, without any hint, skip or areaportal brushes in many levels and no culling.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53162220]8k isn't much at all. Hero vehicles in games now are expected to be at least 100k. Weapons at least 20k. Horizon Zero Dawn's largest robot crittters are pushing 800k, and with active subdivision, most games have assets which at rendertime are in the millions. And as for source, the dispenser in live TF2 is 2-3 times the cost of that cone with no lods. And I have all sorts of assets in source that are 10-18k no problem.
[T]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227571650609152000/414194197600534539/unknown.png[/T]
This thing's 12k with a bottom lod of 800 triangles, and you can have several visible at once without any issues. No reason on god's green earth the cone should be anything over than 200 faces, but tricount isn't the problem.
Can you show the phys model? I suspect they didn't make one for it, source shrinkwrapped it and went "oh it's a 360 sided circle, perfect", and that's the real source of your slowdowns. I'll also bet that there's no lods either, but that's just lazy, not game breaking.
If someone wants to go through the game with "Vcollide_wireframe 1" on, i'm sure that'll be a real horror show.[/QUOTE]
Unless that traffic cone is the main weapon for the main character in the game, there's no reason why it couldn't be a much more simplistic and less intensive object.
[QUOTE=Loth;53162366]You're comparing a street cone that's basicely 2 welded primitives, to a car and some of the most detailed mechas ever seen in a game.
Yes there's unique hero models with high polycounts in games today, but this amount of wasted polygons on an prop that's potentialy spammed everywhere in a level is just objectively terrible modeling. Especialy in source, without any hint, skip or areaportal brushes in many levels and no culling.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rajikaru;53162368]Unless that traffic cone is the main weapon for the main character in the game, there's no reason why it couldn't be a much more simplistic and less intensive object.[/QUOTE]
If you could actually be bothered to read my post you'd see the following
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53162220]No reason on god's green earth the cone should be anything over than 200 faces, but tricount isn't the problem.
Can you show the phys model? I suspect they didn't make one for it, source shrinkwrapped it and went "oh it's a 360 sided circle, perfect", and that's the real source of your slowdowns.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying it's a good asset, and that that high a polycount for such a little asset is a good idea. I'm saying that an 8k traffic cone won't cause the problems as claimed. Even if there were 30 of them in a pile on front of you that'd still be on par for one hero asset car in any other game. So most likely the auto generated phys model around that model that's causing the problems. Because when you let source do it's own thing on a highpoly asset it does shit like this
[T]https://puu.sh/zwoXq/ba2044a79b.png[/T]
Which is bad enough on a static prop, but on a prop_dynamic is going to cause exactly the kind of problems that's being reported.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53162220][T]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227571650609152000/414194197600534539/unknown.png[/T]
This thing's 12k with a bottom lod of 800 triangles, and you can have several visible at once without any issues. No reason on god's green earth the cone should be anything over than 200 faces, but tricount isn't the problem.
Can you show the phys model? I suspect they didn't make one for it, source shrinkwrapped it and went "oh it's a 360 sided circle, perfect", and that's the real source of your slowdowns. I'll also bet that there's no lods either, but that's just lazy, not game breaking.
If someone wants to go through the game with "Vcollide_wireframe 1" on, i'm sure that'll be a real horror show.[/QUOTE]
Not saying that you're wrong, but you've also made me search for my account so I could answer back, so...
Listen, the main issue is that a simple prop, a dumb cone that could easily be all over the place in the City 17, the one with the Humvees or the road to Nova Prospekt maps does not need to drain the engine's resources by having such insane quality for what amounts to something you'll run over at high speeds and don't even bother to look how nice it looks.
That's one of the main issues with this whole game, everything has insane qualities because "4k is the way of the future", but it only manages to overload things up. Honestly, in the final stage there were so many damn shiny AR2 on the ground that any grenade would make the FPS commit sudoku.
Well yeah, obviously. They managed to make 15 year old textures take up 256mb of space with no increase in quality, but that wasn't the point of my post
I first played HL2 on a PC with 256MB RAM and 64 MB VRAM. To say this mod is unoptimized is an understatement.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53162377]If you could actually be bothered to read my post you'd see the following
[/QUOTE]
I did read your post. I also have a barebones understanding of modelling yet I could easily pull out my student edition of Maya and in 5 minutes make a just as convincing street cone using 2 simplistic shapes, conal and cylindrical, and orange/white textures applied directly to said shapes. There are no excuses for spending that much time and effort on making realistic street cones.
[QUOTE=Devil Traitor;53162286]Was this posted, yet?
[video]https://youtu.be/v0-mZy0qupg[/video][/QUOTE]
Oh hey I'm in the vidya :v:
I’m not. :frown:
[editline]26th February 2018[/editline]
So who wagers there’s gonna be an attempt at a sequel?
[QUOTE=F T;53162515]I’m not. :frown:
[editline]26th February 2018[/editline]
So who wagers there’s gonna be an attempt at a sequel?[/QUOTE]
I doubt there'd be a chance at a sequel, seeing as how it's not even worth playing ironically. Plus the fact that there will probably be DMCA takedowns or lawsuits from the game companies Frank and his team stole from.
Hence, [I]attempt.[/I] Every testimony, review, and post I’ve seen detailing what it was like to work with Berkan have convinced me he’s just that clueless as to why this game is a complete failure. He even said he doesn’t understand why he’s hated so much by the half-life community.
So I’m willing to put up 2 gubbins that he’s gonna try a sequel, especially because of that cliffhanger.
[QUOTE=F T;53162539]Hence, [I]attempt.[/I] Every testimony, review, and post I’ve seen detailing what it was like to work with Berkan have convinced me he’s just that clueless as to why this game is a complete failure. He even said he doesn’t understand why he’s hated so much by the half-life community.
So I’m willing to put up 2 gubbins that he’s gonna try a sequel, especially because of that cliffhanger.[/QUOTE]
For what it's worth, I don't hate him. He just has no idea how it's all supposed to work. He doesn't understand what a proper development process is like. I'm all for people trying their best at creative things, and while this "thing" is pretty god awful, I gotta give the dude credit for actually going so far as to [I]purchase a commercial license for the Source engine[/I] to make what is essentially a Source mod. No matter how stupid that is, it's some incredible dedication.
Dude really thought deep down he was making something good enough that it HAD to be licensed as its own thing. I can respect that.
I hope he does the important thing here and learns to listen to all the feedback, not only from "haters" but also from his own community.
[QUOTE=Trilby Harlow;53162220]8k isn't much at all. Hero vehicles in games now are expected to be at least 100k. Weapons at least 20k. Horizon Zero Dawn's largest robot crittters are pushing 800k, and with active subdivision, most games have assets which at rendertime are in the millions. And as for source, the dispenser in live TF2 is 2-3 times the cost of that cone with no lods. And I have all sorts of assets in source that are 10-18k no problem.
[T]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/227571650609152000/414194197600534539/unknown.png[/T]
This thing's 12k with a bottom lod of 800 triangles, and you can have several visible at once without any issues. No reason on god's green earth the cone should be anything over than 200 faces, but tricount isn't the problem.
Can you show the phys model? I suspect they didn't make one for it, source shrinkwrapped it and went "oh it's a 360 sided circle, perfect", and that's the real source of your slowdowns. I'll also bet that there's no lods either, but that's just lazy, not game breaking.
If someone wants to go through the game with "Vcollide_wireframe 1" on, i'm sure that'll be a real horror show.[/QUOTE]
You aren't wrong, but there's still more to discuss here.
It's all about silhouette and poly usage. The goal is to use the least amount of polys you can while maintaining a clean silhouette. While talking to students, they get it in their heads (I did this too) that you need to crunch your poly count down, where that really isn't the case. Yes, you need to be mindful about your poly count but at the same time you shouldn't sacrifice your silhouette on account of that. However this artist looked to do the opposite of that :v:
The lesson to be learned is to be smart about your poly allocation as well as clever tricks like editing the facing normals to produce a sharp edge on a bevel without the need of extra lines on an edge.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/2pfZGms.jpg[/t]
As the cone tapers upwards you can merge the quads together. The need for the same density of polys near the bottom becomes less, seeing as the silhouette is becoming smaller. On the bottom edge I used a facing normals trick to maintain a nice crisp looking edge where a normal bevel wouldn't give that same look.
Sorry if this comes off as if I'm directing this towards you, it's not. I just wanted to show what lessons can be learned from that cone model.
Dopefish gave this masterpiece a try :v:
[video]https://youtu.be/dn8ns6I4DVQ[/video]
[QUOTE=weyu6572;53100742][video=youtube;hNBj9LkhhEk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNBj9LkhhEk[/video]
oh shit hahaaaa[/QUOTE]
Holy crap, at 1:42, that wouldn't be Alex from I Hate Everything, would it? Oh, [I]no[/I].
[QUOTE=CMS2000;53162643]Holy crap, at 1:42, that wouldn't be Alex from I Hate Everything, would it? Oh, [I]no[/I].[/QUOTE]
You're a little late lol?
[QUOTE=kill3r;53162673]You're a little late lol?[/QUOTE]
i am late
i am also sorry
As a fan of IHE, it was news to me.
The claymore minefield section looks horribly frustrating and like very bad game design.
I think those types of setpieces are not fun. I disliked the infamous "tripwire maze" in Surface Tension because it's a pain to figure out exactly what your collision box is. (I also bring up this one section in either Hl1, or OP4 where you fall through a duct, and land in a room full of tripwires. Can someone fill me in on which game this was? Might have even been HL2)
Black Mesa made it arguably worse because I think there was both alternative routes, and the fact that your collision box was weirder. Lasers you could merely jump in HL1 now require a crouch jump in Black Mesa.
Minefields also made an appearance in HL1 and Black Mesa. While there was a sign (IDK if every time) warning you about the minefields, the mines themselves were completely invisible, and while you could shoot them to set them off, the trigger zone for bullets was extremely small. You had to use the shotgun or explosives, and even then I'd be sure I cleared it all out, only to get gibbed by a mine I somehow missed.
Black Mesa was arguably more merciful as while the amount of mines was turned up, they were at least visible.
HDTF combines the mines and the nuclear building with the fact setting one off results in a game over from a chain reaction. You can't blow them up without dying.
Watching, I was also confused because there's a bunch of computers with wires connected to the claymores. This gives a false impression you have to shoot the computers to deactivate the claymores. (Like the SEMTEX bombs in MGS2) This isn't the case. You just have to sneak past them and push E on the computer that is on to deactivate the minefield for your friend. So why are the other computers there if they don't do jack shit?
Also "Don't use your weapons, there's a gas leak." meanwhile your ally has a shotgun even though in the cutscene he had a crowbar.
[QUOTE=surfur;53162581]I just wanted to show what lessons can be learned from that cone model.[/QUOTE]
There's another lesson we can learn here but first I want to see a screenshot where some one is in a map that has those cones everywhere and with mat_wireframe set to 3. Preferably two with one around a few corners where they can't see the model.
[QUOTE=Toybasher;53162700]Also "Don't use your weapons, there's a gas leak." meanwhile your ally has a shotgun even though in the cutscene he had a crowbar.[/QUOTE]
I remember Mitchell specifically questioning the guy after that, only to get no answer :v:
honestly this game was doomed the moment they chose Mitchell as the name for the protagonist
im willing to believe the name alone is what drove it to this
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