Stuff that Annoys you in TF2: MS Paint Crocket Edition - Games

Like a lot of things Valve has done they supported it for a while and then just kinda left it alone

[QUOTE=LurkMoar;50152518]If anything proves to me that Valve's radical model of "no bosses" doesn't work, it's their utter ADHD habit of building something up and then completely ignoring it exists. See: duels, replays, arena mode, the lore, and now MVM.[/QUOTE] The flaw in your reasoning here is that you assume Valve has any interest in supporting these features. They do not. What people fail to realize is that Valve doesn't treat TF2 like your typical video game. No, they treat it as an experimental testbed. All the new "features" that get added to TF2 aren't actually features - they're experiments and tests, designed to produce certain types of feedback and collect certain kinds of data. Valve only cares about maintaining them until they've gotten all the information they want out of them, and then like any experiment they're discontinued. TF2 is nearly ten years old. Its lifespan as a viable "product", designed to make money by drawing customers in a competitive marketplace, expired a long time ago. But instead of just abandon it entirely like every other game company would do for any other game, Valve converted it into a research tool. The primary purpose of TF2 these days is experimentation. With a game this old, which you aren't relying on for significant sales figures, you can afford to take risks you wouldn't otherwise, because it doesn't matter that much if something doesn't pan out, or if you abandon a project midway through. You also get to benefit from the fact that large scale testing "in the wild" is much more significant and informative than small scale internal testing. And the fact that people still enjoy playing it and that it still produces a bunch of money for Valve? That's just icing on the cake.

People who constantly talk on and on about things that're in no way related to the game and flip shit when you tell them to stop. I mean holy fuck, if I wanted to hear two strangers talk about what they had for lunch I would just go get a life outside of video games.

People who complain about others casually talking in voice chat and go into some really idiotic lengths like yelling. The mute option exists for a reason, you know, stop acting like a Grumpy McMad.

I'd love to use the mute option on individual people if it weren't for the fact that the same people who say [I]SO YEAH WHAT DID YOU HAVE FOR DINNER 4 NIGHTS AGO[/I] weren't the same who said[I] I SAW AN ENGINEER GO INTO THE VENTS GET HIM BEFORE HE MAKES A NEST[/I]. While I'm already ranting about mic redundancy, people who constantly yell shit like [I]MEDIC OVER HERE [/I]or [I]MEDIC COME HEAL ME [/I] fall into that category. The "E" key is literally right across your "V" key, just shut up about it. People who do that when I'm playing medic just makes me want to avoid healing them.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;50156134]People who complain about others casually talking in voice chat and go into some really idiotic lengths like yelling. The mute option exists for a reason, you know, stop acting like a Grumpy McMad.[/QUOTE] No, that's absurd. If you want to talk to your friend, do it over any of countless free programs that provide VOIP. [I]"But other people can mute me!"[/I] No, sorry, -fuck you- because they [I]shouldn't have to[/I]. You're inconveniencing entire servers worth of people for absolutely no goddamn reason. Why should dozens of other people have to stop to mute you when you could just use Skype, Teamspeak, Ventrilo or whatever else program you like? Especially since every new server you join means another set of people who have to mute you? Even if you only play on a single server, if you're on there for a while people will naturally leave and new people will join and then THEY have to mute your stupid asses. You're like the assholes who stand in the middle of grocery store aisles taking up the entire walkway talking, and when people ask them to move, they get offended and are like "You can go around!". Sorry bub, but that's not how society works. When you make yourself a nuisance to other people for stupid selfish reasons, and people ask you to stop and get offended when you don't, they're not the bad guys - you are. /rant

I would agree with you if muting didn't take literally 5 seconds.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50156352]No, that's absurd. If you want to talk to your friend, do it over any of countless free programs that provide VOIP. [I]"But other people can mute me!"[/I] No, sorry, -fuck you- because they [I]shouldn't have to[/I]. You're inconveniencing entire servers worth of people for absolutely no goddamn reason. Why should dozens of other people have to stop to mute you when you could just use Skype, Teamspeak, Ventrilo or whatever else program you like? Especially since every new server you join means another set of people who have to mute you? Even if you only play on a single server, if you're on there for a while people will naturally leave and new people will join and then THEY have to mute your stupid asses. You're like the assholes who stand in the middle of grocery store aisles taking up the entire walkway talking, and when people ask them to move, they get offended and are like "You can go around!". Sorry bub, but that's not how society works. When you make yourself a nuisance to other people for stupid selfish reasons, and people ask you to stop and get offended when you don't, they're not the bad guys - you are. /rant[/QUOTE] Seems a bit nitpicky considering muting/turning voicechat off takes around 3 seconds but I mean, you're the one who's obviously right and cannot be dispute with, go and tell them how FUCKING DARE THEY to have a casual chat in a casual game! I am sure they'll understand your clearly superior reasons why they can't have fun and should fuck off once you yell and call them assholes enough times! That'll show them!

I don't really mind people chatting if they're also addressing other players on our team occasionally or discussing stuff in the game sometimes. But if you're literally just chatting, yeah, fuck off.

[QUOTE=Dom Pyroshark;50156824]I am sure they'll understand your clearly superior reasons why they can't have fun and should fuck off once you yell and call them assholes enough times! [/QUOTE] But what could possibly be fun about talking about model trains or your job with strangers on a video game when everyone else is trying to push the cart or defend the intel? Either you could get Skype or Teamspeak, like mentioned above, use text chat, or keep talking about whatever dumb stuff just for the sake of talking and come across as someone who's desperate for attention and interaction.

"Muting takes 5 seconds." And firing up Skype and calling someone takes 5 seconds. But apparently your five seconds are more valuable than the 5 seconds of dozens of other people? Spare me.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50157264]"Muting takes 5 seconds." And firing up Skype and calling someone takes 5 seconds. But apparently your five seconds are more valuable than the 5 seconds of dozens of other people? Spare me.[/QUOTE] Every time I've seen someone tell someone to shut up in a server they either A) go on like a five minute tirade so obviously they don't care about time or B) are in a community server getting mad at regulars who come for the community. In the end it's literally 3 seconds that you wouldn't even bat an eye about if it was someone spamming memey binds, which are far more annoying.

It's almost like some people want to have casual convos to relieve stress from the day instead of going balls to the wall hardcore and only do callouts. It's like a real life pub, everyone is there to drink and talk about sports, but you can still talk about other things.

After playing the ghost towns that are valve servers non stop, I would love to actually hear people talk.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50157688]It's almost like some people want to have casual convos to relieve stress from the day instead of going balls to the wall hardcore and only do callouts. It's like a real life pub, everyone is there to drink and talk about sports, but you can still talk about other things.[/QUOTE] Also like a real-life pub, there are more people who want to talk than just the same two people who have been talking the whole time. All-talk community servers are among the best for these because most people are able to interject and make their statement within a very short period of time, so people won't be talking for an extended period of time unless they're telling everyone a story and everyone's on board with it. It's all a matter of scale and timing. If the chat is being filled up with random chatter that is only directed at a singular person, then that should probably stop because there's more to a public platform than speaking to 1 specific person, you gotta be ready to converse with the entire server in that regard.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50157688]It's like a real life pub, everyone is there to drink and talk about sports, but you can still talk about other things.[/QUOTE] But when you're at a pub in real life, do you: A) address the entire pub with what you had for dinner B) talk to your mates or the people in your intermediate area about what you had for dinner

[QUOTE=gnampf;50157945]But when you're at a pub in real life, do you: A) address the entire pub with what you had for dinner B) talk to your mates or the people in your intermediate area about what you had for dinner[/QUOTE] I'm usually eating dinner AT the pub.

barnblitz's red respawn times are completely awful. you don't even need to do big pushes. just kill people normally and rooms will be empty of resistance.

So I've been trying out the Dead Ringer for about 2 weeks because I've always thought "The Dead Ringer makes playing Spy fairly easy" Boy was I was wrong. The Dead Ringer makes Spy putridly, sickeningly, disgustingly easy to play.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50159245]So I've been trying out the Dead Ringer for about 2 weeks because I've always thought "The Dead Ringer makes playing Spy easy" Boy was I was wrong. The Dead Ringer makes Spy putridly, sickeningly, disgustingly easy to play.[/QUOTE] If you think current state Dead Ringer is bad then you'd think old Dead Ringer was Satan's left nut.

[QUOTE=yellowoboe;50159264]If you think current state Dead Ringer is bad then you'd think old Dead Ringer was Satan's left nut.[/QUOTE] The old dead ringer was on it's own demonic ethereal plane of evil that only a select few weapons ever reach, see: Crit-a-Cola.

Dead Ringer is bad, but Ambassador is hot shit. Fuck whoever that thought Spy needs to be able to headshot people. Spy should be a class that when hidden, should be powerful, but once you're found, you should almost always die. Ambassador just laughs at that shit, allowing you to 2 shot eight out of nine classes. Spy shouldn't have such outright power with no downside. Backstabbing needs you to be behind someone, usually a difficult task, headshots just need you to aim from any direction. Valve was so hard set on having the Razorback, that they had to make a weapon just to counter it. Too bad that weapon is also extremely powerful, and is nigh impossible to counter if they can aim. The more I think about the Spy v. Sniper update, the more I see that it brought some of the most heinous shit to TF2.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50159298]The old dead ringer was on it's own demonic ethereal plane of evil that only a select few weapons ever reach, see: Crit-a-Cola.[/QUOTE] Idk, im starting to see the current dead ringers speed boost and free fire resist to be more braindead than the old one. I feel like 75% damage resist is too high for the benefits it gives, I think it should be 60% and crit resistance, or they could keep it at 65 but remove the fire resist.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50159298]The old dead ringer was on it's own demonic ethereal plane of evil that only a select few weapons ever reach, see: Crit-a-Cola.[/QUOTE] you have to wonder why they buffed crit-a-cola at all it was perfectly balanced without the speed boost; deal minicrits, take minicrits.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;50159383]Idk, im starting to see the current dead ringers speed boost and free fire resist to be more braindead than the old one. I feel like 75% damage resist is too high for the benefits it gives, I think it should be 60% and crit resistance, or they could keep it at 65 but remove the fire resist.[/QUOTE] Or cut it out of the game completely like the cancerous tumor we all know it to be. [QUOTE=Ithaca74;50159362] The more I think about the Spy v. Sniper update, the more I see that it brought some of the most heinous shit to TF2.[/QUOTE] Let us count the ways: 1. Huntsman: Instakill Projectile Spam 2. Jarate: Free minicrits with minimal effort 3. Razorback: Who needs awareness? 3. Dead Ringer: Who needs stealth? 5. Ambassador: see dead ringer 6. Cloak and dagger: Not good or bad 5 ways to fuck your shit up.

[QUOTE=Ithaca74;50159362]Dead Ringer is bad, but Ambassador is hot shit. Fuck whoever that thought Spy needs to be able to headshot people. Spy should be a class that when hidden, should be powerful, but once you're found, you should almost always die. Ambassador just laughs at that shit, allowing you to 2 shot eight out of nine classes. Spy shouldn't have such outright power with no downside. Backstabbing needs you to be behind someone, usually a difficult task, headshots just need you to aim from any direction. [/QUOTE] Spy is just a really oddball class right now. In high end play, he's pretty much a mini-sniper with a dead ringer to be slightly more mobile. IMO he's the worst class right now. Some will contest pyro, but personally I believe its spy. Spy as a stealth assassin class fall flat when fighting competent players. Its just not viable. In terms of getting pick off kills, Sniper can do the same thing from across the map, faster, at low risk to him. Spy on the other hand... has to travel across an entire map at a low movement speed and no real mobility just so he can try to get off a backstab and hope it registers properly, while trying to chase a lot of classes more mobile than him. But even if he gets said stab, this isn't the end of his problems, he now has to hide again That can be pretty hard, Spy's utility weapons are pretty limited in which you're either choosing a way to stealth, or a way to escape. If you manage to do all that, then congrats you've gotten yourself one kill. But of course, now the enemy knows there is a spy, and are much more likely to check behind them. Meaning Spy will only get less effective the more the game progresses. Considering there's no penalty at all for spy checking, the entire concept of Disguises falls flat. Everyone just hits everyone on their team. Its pretty standard knowledge for anti-spy play. High level players obviously will call out spy, making sneaking around even harder. But if that wasn't enough, latest updates made it so you can see outlines your entire team while you're dead/ first few seconds of spawn. But this also highlights disguised spies, making calling them out that much easier, giving you not only who they're disguised as, but a relative position. Since the update that added those outlines (Gun Mettle was it?), I've been killed as spy hiding in places people shouldn't have even looked, but they run right to them and kill me as if they knew I was there. It certainly isn't helping that backstabbing is rather glitchy, with some backstabs flat out not registering, turning into a melee swipe, and others registering from hitting someone's front side. Stealth currently just doesn't work in TF2, Spy is too slow, predictable and preventable, which is why I'm not at all surprised the spy meta is gun slinging with the Ambassador + Dead Ringer combo, completely throwing out any sort of stealth at all. The dead ringer and ambassador is bullshit I agree, but its pretty much the only saving grace of the spy class at the moment.

[QUOTE=Oizen;50159476]Spy is just a really oddball class right now. In high end play, he's pretty much a mini-sniper with a dead ringer to be slightly more mobile. IMO he's the worst class right now. Some will contest pyro, but personally I believe its spy. Spy as a stealth assassin class fall flat when fighting competent players. Its just not viable. In terms of getting pick off kills, Sniper can do the same thing from across the map, faster, at low risk to him. Spy on the other hand... has to travel across an entire map at a low movement speed and no real mobility just so he can try to get off a backstab and hope it registers properly, while trying to chase a lot of classes more mobile than him. But even if he gets said stab, this isn't the end of his problems, he now has to hide again That can be pretty hard, Spy's utility weapons are pretty limited in which you're either choosing a way to stealth, or a way to escape. If you manage to do all that, then congrats you've gotten yourself one kill. But of course, now the enemy knows there is a spy, and are much more likely to check behind them. Meaning Spy will only get less effective the more the game progresses. Considering there's no penalty at all for spy checking, the entire concept of Disguises falls flat. Everyone just hits everyone on their team. Its pretty standard knowledge for anti-spy play. High level players obviously will call out spy, making sneaking around even harder. But if that wasn't enough, latest updates made it so you can see outlines your entire team while you're dead/ first few seconds of spawn. But this also highlights disguised spies, making calling them out that much easier, giving you not only who they're disguised as, but a relative position. Since the update that added those outlines (Gun Mettle was it?), I've been killed as spy hiding in places people shouldn't have even looked, but they run right to them and kill me as if they knew I was there. It certainly isn't helping that backstabbing is rather glitchy, with some backstabs flat out not registering, turning into a melee swipe, and others registering from hitting someone's front side. Stealth currently just doesn't work in TF2, Spy is too slow, predictable and preventable, which is why I'm not at all surprised the spy meta is gun slinging with the Ambassador + Dead Ringer combo, completely throwing out any sort of stealth at all. The dead ringer and ambassador is bullshit I agree, but its pretty much the only saving grace of the spy class at the moment.[/QUOTE] stealth classes dont work in fps games, they either are balanced competitively but are annoying and fun killing to play against, or they are bad overall and only good for stomping unaware new players who havent yet learned how to deal with them. Tf2 spy falls on the latter but if you buffed him to be viable with things like no cloak noise, a gun that deals close range damage, more sustain etc, he would make the game incredibly unfun for the majority of the players. The only way to make spy viable is to give him a new niche on top of stealth that adds actual value without being a nuisance.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;50159549]stealth classes dont work in fps games, they either are balanced competitively but are annoying and fun killing to play against, or they are bad overall and only good for stomping unaware new players who havent yet learned how to deal with them. Tf2 spy falls on the latter but if you buffed him to be viable with things like no cloak noise, a gun that deals close range damage, more sustain etc, he would make the game incredibly unfun for the majority of the players. The only way to make spy viable is to give him a new niche on top of stealth that adds actual value without being a nuisance.[/QUOTE] Any sort of ''in the spirit of the class'' new niche I can think of for the Spy would be annoying for the enemy team. Setting fire-and-forget traps? Nobody likes walking into a hidden one that couldn't be prevented. Marking enemies and/or Sentries through walls, as a kind of intel-gathering espionage thing? That's a borderline wallhack that's pretty BS when you think about it. Giving him a kind of grappling-hook-type advanced mobility, allowing him to scale walls and get up to high ledges and balconies? Could work perhaps, but as you said, there's a point where it could become mighty aggravating to have a class that can literally drop down on you from any height or show up in any elevated position without a cost like explosive jumping. I agree with Oizen, even though Spy's one of my favorited classes to play since I like the stealth aspect and you gotta work quite hard for your kills and be patient. The class is either a flawed stealth-based design that just fails vs. more experienced players and organized teams, or a gun-toting 'trickster' that can't really help being obvious, but abuses the faked death resistances to constantly irritate enemies and lead them on wild goose chases, while acting as a mini-sniper. And sometimes exploiting the backstab hit detection to pull off blatantly obvious trickstabs instead of actual stealth kills. EDIT: even vs. lower-skilled opposition and in the randomness of pubs, it's still easier and less risky for a decent player to just go Soldier, Demo or some other team-carrying class and get the job done reliably and with more versatility and less risk, than trying to make a game-winning difference as a non-DR Spy, hoping that luck and random chance doesn't screw you over, or that you don't eventually end up facing too many Pyros or at least somewhat aware enemies.

[QUOTE=Oizen;50159476]Spy is just a really oddball class right now. In high end play, he's pretty much a mini-sniper with a dead ringer to be slightly more mobile. IMO he's the worst class right now. Some will contest pyro, but personally I believe its spy. Spy as a stealth assassin class fall flat when fighting competent players. Its just not viable. In terms of getting pick off kills, Sniper can do the same thing from across the map, faster, at low risk to him. Spy on the other hand... has to travel across an entire map at a low movement speed and no real mobility just so he can try to get off a backstab and hope it registers properly, while trying to chase a lot of classes more mobile than him. But even if he gets said stab, this isn't the end of his problems, he now has to hide again That can be pretty hard, Spy's utility weapons are pretty limited in which you're either choosing a way to stealth, or a way to escape. If you manage to do all that, then congrats you've gotten yourself one kill. But of course, now the enemy knows there is a spy, and are much more likely to check behind them. Meaning Spy will only get less effective the more the game progresses. Considering there's no penalty at all for spy checking, the entire concept of Disguises falls flat. Everyone just hits everyone on their team. Its pretty standard knowledge for anti-spy play. High level players obviously will call out spy, making sneaking around even harder. But if that wasn't enough, latest updates made it so you can see outlines your entire team while you're dead/ first few seconds of spawn. But this also highlights disguised spies, making calling them out that much easier, giving you not only who they're disguised as, but a relative position. Since the update that added those outlines (Gun Mettle was it?), I've been killed as spy hiding in places people shouldn't have even looked, but they run right to them and kill me as if they knew I was there. It certainly isn't helping that backstabbing is rather glitchy, with some backstabs flat out not registering, turning into a melee swipe, and others registering from hitting someone's front side. Stealth currently just doesn't work in TF2, Spy is too slow, predictable and preventable, which is why I'm not at all surprised the spy meta is gun slinging with the Ambassador + Dead Ringer combo, completely throwing out any sort of stealth at all. The dead ringer and ambassador is bullshit I agree, but its pretty much the only saving grace of the spy class at the moment.[/QUOTE] I think playing as Spy depends on the map and the situation (As well as the loadout). In fact you don't even have to kill someone to hinder their progress, just get to the enemy's territory and outright play hide 'n seek with them, which sadly i don't think people do that anymore, but having a lot of enemies chasing a single Spy in their own base instead of capturing some points really wastes their time. It mostly works in A/D and 5CP, sometimes in Payload, but downright useless in CTF.

Why hate on the Ambassador? It's purpose was to give the spy the ability to kill from a safe distance, if people have mastered it to where it is basically the Revolver then fine. After all, the Amby requires precision aim to be effective.