Stuff that Annoys you in TF2: MS Paint Crocket Edition - Games

[QUOTE=Hell-met;50216472]why is it so unacceptable to have fights decided between who actually aims better rather than have some embarassing external factor in this game?[/QUOTE] medpack management is a skill just like anything else. Knowing to take a medkit early in a fight to deny it to your opponent is a skill. Firing a rocket at a medkit because you can guess your injured enemy is headed that way is a skill. Avoiding enemy fire and making it to a medkit in time to turn a fight round is a skill. In all of these situations your opponent can counterplay as well, they can try and deny you a medkit, they can choose to fully retreat or take an alt route instead of bee-lining for a medkit or they can choose not to commit to chasing you because they know a medkit is ahead and you'll likely use it to regain your tempo advantage. Medkits are one of my favourite parts of TF2. [editline]28th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Oizen;50203649]I personally don't have a problem with the current dead ringer, if you have a strong game sense it shouldn't be that big of an issue. What I mean by that is Spy cannot shoot or swipe his knife when he has the dead ringer up, so if you're attacking him and he's not even really trying to retaliate with his revolver, thats a sign he's going to feign. Though he can get it up pretty quick, deducing if the spy has a dead ringer or not is pretty simple. If a Spy is just charging in with a disguise in a fire zone, he has the dead ringer up, even if he's using friendly disguises, keeping in mind the Maximum health of each class can make you understand those too. Especially if you land a weak hit and the person dies, odds are it was DR Spy. Even when fighitng an exposed spy, if you land a weak hit and he dies. Odds are it was a feign. The best thing you can do at this point is ask yourself "where would I go if I was him", he's still down a good chunk of health and now his precious DR shield has been used. Most spies at this point go straight for the nearest ammo/healthpack. If you miss him then at the very least, you now know there is a spy. Its kinda bullshit I agree, but I don't think its the most annoying thing to fight in this game.[/QUOTE] The problem I have with DR is not so much it's ability to kill your or be that effective. It doesn't make a spy better at killing your team or killing you, if all of the above are average skill or greater. But what it does do is [I]force[/I] extreme paranoia on a team. The good thing about the spy interaction is his goal is to cause paranoia, paranoia = less effective team since people will waste ammo and time spy checking. Normally, you can keep your cool and not let paranoia affect you by using simple logic 'I killed a spy, it's safe for 15~ seconds', but the issue with the DR is you never know for sure if you've killed him. Sometimes it's obvious, but sometimes it isn't, and when it isn't that's when you get a problem, because you have to dedicate time and effort to ensuring he's dead. Sure, you can kill a spy, then immediately check the nearest metal/health pickup, but what if you actually killed him? Then you just wasted 5 or 6 seconds doing sweet fuck all for your team, which can completely offset the spies regen time. Also there's no guarantee you even went the right way, what if the spy (smartly) took a less travelled route? You still lose out. The obvious counterplay is to not invest time and effort into hunting DRs, but thats what the DR spy wants, and that's why it's so fucking frustrating. You either waste time and effort, or you get killed/further distracted and there's no counterplay. Not even pyro can deal with DR effectively. Especially now DR gives a fucking ridiculous speed boost for which I can see absolutely no justification. Imo the DR corpse bug was a good thing because it let you know if the spy was dead or not, but the downside was you had to inspect the body, which takes time, but not as much time as hunting down a spy, and it still let the spy abuse the speed and invincibility.

Speaking of wars and the soldier, just think for a minute that during the events of TF2, the Vietnam war is raging over in Asia. The craziness of that war in the style of TF2, it's either beautiful or horrifying. Also I'm quite glad they changed the menu screen back to what it was before and got rid of Miss Pauling. E. Dammit I meant to post this in the general chat thread.

What? Now people are complaining about the MEDKIT in the game when they were here since the beginning? you are now saying that medkit is against skills and unbalanced?

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50218643]What? Now people are complaining about the MEDKIT in the game when they were here since the beginning? you are now saying that medkit is against skills and unbalanced?[/QUOTE] They are saying that we should replace it so that the classes get health regen, I believe. Which wouldn't sodding work cause in modern game shooters there aren't classes most of the time that have different health, and when there are there is a healing class and (most likely) no regeneration. Or they aren't TF2 and don't have a bunch of unlockables NEARLY all the time. I could only imagine health regen working on weak classes that does not have high as all heck mobility or does not own insta-kills as a part of their gameplay, which leaves us only with Medic working as a class that could use it, which he already does.

Speaking of medkits, isn't it weird how a small medkit heals 20.5%? It's like they made a typo in 25.0% and never bothered to change it.

[QUOTE=Demo-the-man;50218904]They are saying that we should replace it so that the classes get health regen, I believe. Which wouldn't sodding work cause in modern game shooters there aren't classes most of the time that have different health, and when there are there is a healing class and (most likely) no regeneration. Or they aren't TF2 and don't have a bunch of unlockables NEARLY all the time. I could only imagine health regen working on weak classes that does not have high as all heck mobility or does not own insta-kills as a part of their gameplay, which leaves us only with Medic working as a class that could use it, which he already does.[/QUOTE] I think the original comment meant that the health gained from medkits should give a regen like effect until the player heals for the full amount the medkit is worth or the player becomes full health, instead of how it is currently where the health value is instantly added to the player.

Sick, I just got kicked randomly after the first wave in Mannup.

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;50219249]medkits are the new random crits[/QUOTE] I can't tell when I'm going to get a crit

[QUOTE=Demo-the-man;50218904]They are saying that we should replace it so that the classes get health regen, I believe. Which wouldn't sodding work cause in modern game shooters there aren't classes most of the time that have different health, and when there are there is a healing class and (most likely) no regeneration. Or they aren't TF2 and don't have a bunch of unlockables NEARLY all the time. I could only imagine health regen working on weak classes that does not have high as all heck mobility or does not own insta-kills as a part of their gameplay, which leaves us only with Medic working as a class that could use it, which he already does.[/QUOTE] It's stupid. It doesn't work on a game such as TF2. When you are very low health, you should be searching for a medkit, or a medic, it's GOOD, you don't have to wait outside (and the same thing could apply to your allie) you don't want to wait to regen to be able to come back fighting some minute later, right? Because of course, you wouldn't want to make it so you can regen faster (else in combat it would be very annoying) so yep.

i fear this was taken slightly out of context but i'm glad it's heating up some discussion

Well now that we've gone from medkit-induced regen to just regen at all times, lemme just say if that were to happen, Medics would lose their jobs and start attacking us with baboon zombies. We'd be essentially trading everything that makes TF2 good for a new MvM update with reskinned robots. I fail to see the issue here. finally a fuckin mvm update yeah

I thought they fixed the "Hear a crit, see a crit but not actually a crit" firstperson glitch with weapons. As somehow I'm still getting it with every minigun.

very cool that damage done is not remembered after a scramble or autobalance. sets you back to the value before the last round. can't even gauge your personal performance after a "fuck you".

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50211845]Get good with Spy. It's still and always the only way. It's the most useless class as of today. Dead ringer? Are you deaf? Because the tip about how the dead ringer is loud is very important. I always kill dead ringer spy after i hears their sound, i know they're here generally because of that sound. And every single time, just continue firing after killing a spy, it cost nothing, especially on pyro, airblast the spy, burn him, continue burning. Nothing hard to do. The most annoying class is the sniper. The ones that said that spy's unlock are useless and garbage is simply put, a retard. Never saw so much salt in a man against item that can be easily being countered. Especially when most spy unlock are like that. Cloak and dagger is excellent, the kunai are literally never used when they're in reality the most deadly weapon a man can find in this planet. you mean i can CONTINUE backstab in public ??? Work best with dead ringer. Also, about that man advise about how spy never fire when they have the dead ringer. yes, they can't fire or anything, but it's just useless, most people use the dead ringer after making some shots into the enemy and when they take some hit, it just doesn't show anything about how to detect a dead ringer.[/QUOTE] That just make you sound like you haven't played against actually good spies.

The Crit-a-Cola. It's amazing stupid just how annoying it is to fight against. Before it gave you mini-crits, but you took mini-crits. A bit of a glass cannon weapon, that I thought was a bit useless. But now with its recent buff, you no longer take mini-crit damage but a measly extra 10% damage AND it gives you a faster move speed. What were they thinking? It went from semi-useless to near broken. All they had to do was just give the old stats the movement speed bonus and it would have been fine, it would have made the scout harder to hit while under the effects of it, but more rewarding if you did as it was cause some hefty damage to him. But it would also help the scout dodge a lot better since he'd need to in order to stay alive. This might just be me being salty from seeing about 70% of scouts in comp use it paired with the Sandman for a free kill, but I seriously think the CaC needs another rework.

[QUOTE=FiveEyes;50224060]The Crit-a-Cola. It's amazing stupid just how annoying it is to fight against. Before it gave you mini-crits, but you took mini-crits. A bit of a glass cannon weapon, that I thought was a bit useless. But now with its recent buff, you no longer take mini-crit damage but a measly extra 10% damage AND it gives you a faster move speed. What were they thinking? It went from semi-useless to near broken. All they had to do was just give the old stats the movement speed bonus and it would have been fine, it would have made the scout harder to hit while under the effects of it, but more rewarding if you did as it was cause some hefty damage to him. But it would also help the scout dodge a lot better since he'd need to in order to stay alive. This might just be me being salty from seeing about 70% of scouts in comp use it paired with the Sandman for a free kill, but I seriously think the CaC needs another rework.[/QUOTE] Valve has a thing were if something is barely used, they buff it to god levels of OP so then it's used again, even if it is heavily over-used. Wierdly the Crit-a-Cola didn't follow suit with the very quick and heavy nerf which would make it useless again. [sp]*cough* Phlog *cough*[/sp]

[QUOTE=X marks it;50224432]Valve has a thing were if something is barely used, they buff it to god levels of OP so then it's used again, even if it is heavily over-used. Wierdly the Crit-a-Cola didn't follow suit with the very quick and heavy nerf which would make it useless again. [sp]*cough* Phlog *cough*[/sp][/QUOTE] I can think of multiple reasons why the CaC's brokenness has been tolerated and overlooked by Valve and most of the playerbase for 2.5 years. [B]1.[/B] It's been straight-up banned in any form of competitive league that I'm aware of since the day it was last buffed. This includes good Scout players not even bothering to use the thing in pubs most of the time, because they either don't need it, have too much self-respect, or don't feel like using something that isn't allowed in any league (these are just my guesses, admittedly). [B]2.[/B] The great majority of people in pubs can't play Scout very well and die too easily, thus being unable to take full advantage of its ridiculous buffs. [B]3.[/B] Some of the most popular modes/maps are chokepoint-heavy Payload maps, CTF turtle-fests and the likes of Dustbowl, with tons of tight tunnels and alleys and loads of explosive spam and mass Sentries at any turn. This favors explosive classes and Heavies and makes it hard for your average CaC Scout to survive long enough to realize how broken the unlock is when you can use it well in the right circumstances. [B]4.[/B] Loads of people (judging by threads on various forums) believe that the simple existence of turtling or Mini-spamming Engies and explosive classes spamming narrow corridors is enough of a direct ''counter'' to a CaC Scout, even though those things counter regular Scouts just as well and are heavily map/situation/team dependant. What about 5CP or KOTH maps, or the more open Payload maps? The current 6v6 Comp MM Beta? Highlander? What about times when your team's Engies aren't allowed to build a wall of Sentries because the other team's Demos/Soldiers keep blowing them up? A skilled, CaC-buffed Scout is free to run around and shit all over your team, including two-shotting Medics from ridiculous distances due to no falloff, in any of those cases. ''Just play CTF, Dustbowl or spammy PL maps and/or have a bunch of Sentries or Mini-sentries'' doesn't sound like a logical solution to an unlock that just makes an already powerful class considerably more lethal for little cost, especially because you're either playing shitty maps/modes that have their own class-balance issues, or relying on just one, static class that can themselves be countered hard by explosives. [B]tl,dr:[/B] not sure why CaC is still somewhat rarely seen in pubs these days (probably points 2 and 3 mostly, and loads of skilled comp Scouts will rather switch to a powerclass in pubs to have an easier time surviving in a crowded environment), but the thing has had the potential to absolutely shit all over the other team when (ab)used by a good Scout, even in a pub, since those 2013 buffs. Sometimes (often, actually) you can't rely on a wall of Sentries or Minis everywhere, or on spam-filled corridors to protect you from nightmare Scouts from hell, and in those situations, the CaC just makes decent Scouts even more lethal and adept at picking off your whole team from a safe distance than they already are. It just took the Comp MM Beta with its lack of restrictions, ranks and emphasis on trying to play optimally for many people outside comp to realize how crazy the thing is. Perfect example of how something was overbuffed (multiple times) solely on the basis of 'equip rates in pubs' data.

[QUOTE=FiveEyes;50224060]The Crit-a-Cola. It's amazing stupid just how annoying it is to fight against. Before it gave you mini-crits, but you took mini-crits. A bit of a glass cannon weapon, that I thought was a bit useless. But now with its recent buff, you no longer take mini-crit damage but a measly extra 10% damage AND it gives you a faster move speed. What were they thinking? It went from semi-useless to near broken. All they had to do was just give the old stats the movement speed bonus and it would have been fine, it would have made the scout harder to hit while under the effects of it, but more rewarding if you did as it was cause some hefty damage to him. But it would also help the scout dodge a lot better since he'd need to in order to stay alive. This might just be me being salty from seeing about 70% of scouts in comp use it paired with the Sandman for a free kill, but I seriously think the CaC needs another rework.[/QUOTE] The buffs are the result of sequential updates to the weapon. Valve noticed people weren't using it so they gradually buffed it more with each update. By the time people started using it, it had become the mess it is today.

[QUOTE=Stric_Matic;50224865]I can think of multiple reasons why the CaC's brokenness has been tolerated and overlooked by Valve and most of the playerbase for 2.5 years. [B]1.[/B] It's been straight-up banned in any form of competitive league that I'm aware of since the day it was last buffed. This includes good Scout players not even bothering to use the thing in pubs most of the time, because they either don't need it, have too much self-respect, or don't feel like using something that isn't allowed in any league (these are just my guesses, admittedly). [B]2.[/B] The great majority of people in pubs can't play Scout very well and die too easily, thus being unable to take full advantage of its ridiculous buffs. [B]3.[/B] Some of the most popular modes/maps are chokepoint-heavy Payload maps, CTF turtle-fests and the likes of Dustbowl, with tons of tight tunnels and alleys and loads of explosive spam and mass Sentries at any turn. This favors explosive classes and Heavies and makes it hard for your average CaC Scout to survive long enough to realize how broken the unlock is when you can use it well in the right circumstances. [B]4.[/B] Loads of people (judging by threads on various forums) believe that the simple existence of turtling or Mini-spamming Engies and explosive classes spamming narrow corridors is enough of a direct ''counter'' to a CaC Scout, even though those things counter regular Scouts just as well and are heavily map/situation/team dependant. What about 5CP or KOTH maps, or the more open Payload maps? The current 6v6 Comp MM Beta? Highlander? What about times when your team's Engies aren't allowed to build a wall of Sentries because the other team's Demos/Soldiers keep blowing them up? A skilled, CaC-buffed Scout is free to run around and shit all over your team, including two-shotting Medics from ridiculous distances due to no falloff, in any of those cases. ''Just play CTF, Dustbowl or spammy PL maps and/or have a bunch of Sentries or Mini-sentries'' doesn't sound like a logical solution to an unlock that just makes an already powerful class considerably more lethal for little cost, especially because you're either playing shitty maps/modes that have their own class-balance issues, or relying on just one, static class that can themselves be countered hard by explosives. [B]tl,dr:[/B] not sure why CaC is still somewhat rarely seen in pubs these days (probably points 2 and 3 mostly, and loads of skilled comp Scouts will rather switch to a powerclass in pubs to have an easier time surviving in a crowded environment), but the thing has had the potential to absolutely shit all over the other team when (ab)used by a good Scout, even in a pub, since those 2013 buffs. Sometimes (often, actually) you can't rely on a wall of Sentries or Minis everywhere, or on spam-filled corridors to protect you from nightmare Scouts from hell, and in those situations, the CaC just makes decent Scouts even more lethal and adept at picking off your whole team from a safe distance than they already are. It just took the Comp MM Beta with its lack of restrictions, ranks and emphasis on trying to play optimally for many people outside comp to realize how crazy the thing is. Perfect example of how something was overbuffed (multiple times) solely on the basis of 'equip rates in pubs' data.[/QUOTE] People still don't notice the cosy camper though :/

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;50227686]People still don't notice the cosy camper though :/[/QUOTE] bring back the hilarious -90% movespeed

[QUOTE=Hell-met;50227703]bring back the hilarious -90% movespeed[/QUOTE] The damage vulnerability camper was the best one, but since noone bothered to abuse the damn thing so rather than keep it balanced it got power creeped to be as broken as his other 2 passive counter negating atrocities of game design

no-flinch never really bothered me since taking potshots at a sniper does not guarantee messing up his shot even with normal bobbing and it's still all about luck over again. Rarely ever worked in my favor. razor and danger have much bigger impacts

i think it's kinda dumb that each time a point is capped that team gets an automatic all crits for like 10 seconds

Intel cap crits are the most retarded thing known to man. "Hey I know the other team just busted through your base and got your intel, so we're giving them free crits so they can rebust whatever's left of your base so they can do it all over again." Like I'm fucking stumped what purpose they serve in aiding gameplay.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;50229752]Intel cap crits are the most retarded thing known to man. "Hey I know the other team just busted through your base and got your intel, so we're giving them free crits so they can rebust whatever's left of your base so they can do it all over again." Like I'm fucking stumped what purpose they serve in aiding gameplay.[/QUOTE] It's a momentum mechanic. It's entirely meant to keep the game from stagnating into the typical CTF stalemates. You're meant to combo 1 cap into another cap. It's just that they took one of the worst approaches to it imaginable instead of making the CTF mechanics themselves more conducive toward momentum. And bad maps will always be bad maps.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;50229881]It's a momentum mechanic. It's entirely meant to keep the game from stagnating into the typical CTF stalemates. You're meant to combo 1 cap into another cap. It's just that they took one of the worst approaches to it imaginable instead of making the CTF mechanics themselves more conducive toward momentum. And bad maps will always be bad maps.[/QUOTE] Saw a video of ctf_vitalism being played, seemed like a good take on a proper ctf map for a change. Never played it though.

[QUOTE=Drury;50230017]Saw a video of ctf_vitalism being played, seemed like a good take on a proper ctf map for a change. Never played it though.[/QUOTE] The issue I had with vitalism is that it really didn't play like CTF does at all, if anything it played more like KotH despite directly taking mechanics from Quake's CTF mode. ctf arroyo was a really solid CTF map due to its sense of scale. There's just small enough of space that defense is difficult to maintain and offense is the norm. It doesn't do anything special with the game rules, it just had a layout that was conducive for fast CTF gameplay, akin to Quake CTF map design, actually. CTF has numerous flaws, many of which are integral in the mode's design but most of them are attributed to poor map design. Honestly, the goal of CTF and the flow of TF2 just don't meld that well together, which is why we've seen a shift toward focusing on capture points instead.

Yeah CTF is very much about individuals doing the whole job, in Quake you can cap by yourself no problem. Team Fortress 2 is by definition not a very per-player type of game. Gets frustrating when there's a one-man job that requires participation of the whole team, it's literally the only gamemode working on this philosophy.

Even after the LMAOBOX bans, the first Valve server I joined had a hacking sniper in it who glitched the intels on both teams.

I swear if i see an another AWPer hand named "AWP" and nothing else i'm gonna lose my shit. Could at least name it like an AWP skin or anything else. I know this is nitpicky but why is this so common?