Stuff that Annoys you in TF2: MS Paint Crocket Edition - Games

[QUOTE=X_Sam;48964761]You forgot the Airstrike.[/QUOTE] I haven't seen a Soldier effectively use the Air Strike yet, but hey more material for my argument about how Soldier is nearing Pyro levels of broken mechanics and unlocks.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;48964632]I used to think Soldier was the most balanced class in the game. But now I realize how low of a skill floor he has and how pathetically easy he can be with half his unlocks being crutches and now I hate him more than any other class. Demo used to hold this spot but after last Christmas he's not an issue, Soldier still has a close range game that's way too good for what he is.[/QUOTE] After the Blackbox got nerfed pretty hard the only unlock that is a crutch is the beggars, maybe the conch. [QUOTE=Fapplejack;48964755]Beggars, Black Box, Conch, and Black Box.[/QUOTE] You say half his unlocks and then name three out of literally almost thirty. I think you might be overstating things just a bit. Soldier does have a low skill floor but it's hardly because of his unlocks.

[QUOTE=Anderan;48964768]After the Blackbox got nerfed pretty hard the only unlock that is a crutch is the beggars, maybe the conch.[/QUOTE] Is it wrong if I prefer the Gunboats to the Conch? I know the Conch is a phenomenal utility weapon, but I'm torn between which is better.

As far as I know, in Dota 2 if you open a treasure (or crate, if you will) that can hold several sets of cosmetics, the game actually takes notice of the set you unboxed, so the next time you open the same class of treasure you won't unbox the same set and instead recive another set the treasure can offer Why this system wasn't applied to Team Fortress 2 as well is anyone's guess

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;48964778]As far as I know, in Dota 2 if you open a treasure (or crate, if you will) that can hold several sets of cosmetics, the game actually takes notice of the set you unboxed, so the next time you open the same class of treasure you won't unbox the same set and instead recive another set the treasure can offer Why this system wasn't applied to Team Fortress 2 as well is anyone's guess[/QUOTE] Probably because Dota doesn't have a crafting system, and they have to wait what, 3 months before they can market anything?

[QUOTE=Anderan;48964768]After the Blackbox got nerfed pretty hard the only unlock that is a crutch is the beggars, maybe the conch.[/QUOTE] Black Box got a buff in one on one close quarters encounters which is what Soldier is disgustingly good at. Sure it fixes the 60hp per rocket mechanic but that's a map by map basis. I see wayy too many Black Boxes topping the scoreboards to consider it balanced it yet and have had one too many times where I get genuinely annoyed a Soldier has been tanking so much damage because he's getting so many heals from multiple outlets. [QUOTE]You say half his unlocks and then name three out of literally almost thirty. I think you might be overstating things just a bit. Soldier does have a low skill floor but it's hardly because of his unlocks.[/QUOTE] He asked for broken weapons. I never said half his weapons are broken, I said half his weapons are crutches. And just because one or two are broken as shit means nothing because by that logic Pyro is perfectly balanced just because only the Degreaser and Reserve Shooter are broken.

[QUOTE=EliaMoroes;48964778]As far as I know, in Dota 2 if you open a treasure (or crate, if you will) that can hold several sets of cosmetics, the game actually takes notice of the set you unboxed, so the next time you open the same class of treasure you won't unbox the same set and instead recive another set the treasure can offer Why this system wasn't applied to Team Fortress 2 as well is anyone's guess[/QUOTE] Doesn't dota 2 uncrating work on an entirely different logic as to comply with China's anti-gambling laws? TF2 crate system is perfect for making money. As long as people keep getting duplicates, they are going to keep trying for different items, spending more money on keys in the process. Since TF2 is banned in most of china, this isn't an issue.

[QUOTE=Fapplejack;48964785]Black Box got a buff in one on one close quarters encounters which is what Soldier is disgustingly good at. Sure it fixes the 60hp per rocket mechanic but that's a map by map basis. I see wayy too many Black Boxes topping the scoreboards to consider it balanced it yet and have had one too many times where I get genuinely annoyed a Soldier has been tanking so much damage because he's getting so many heals from multiple outlets.[/quote] It hardly at all changes one on one soldier fights, even if he hits all three rockets assuming the fight starts with both soldiers at full health he'll still die in 3 rockets. It's a matter of who shoots first, a bit of health on hit doesn't change anything. Just because you see people top score with the black box doesn't mean it's the weapon that's doing it. Soldier is a damage class, it purely comes down to that. Take away the black box and those soldiers would probably still have top scored. It's a matter of correlation != causation. [quote]He asked for broken weapons. I never said half his weapons are broken, I said half his weapons are crutches. And just because one or two are broken as shit means nothing because by that logic Pyro is perfectly balanced just because only the Degreaser and Reserve Shooter are broken.[/QUOTE] Then name which weapons are a crutch. I never said soldier was perfectly balanced, I even agreed that soldier had a low skill floor. Also the pyro isn't broken because of the degreaser, pyro is broken because of airblast being a broken mechanic. The degreaser just exasperated the issue.

I don't like when people look at Pyro, name all the issues it has, then cherry pick one and say "this is what breaks the class and nothing else" Pyro is a collection of horrible design that just needs scrapping and starting over. Alternatively, yes, we can just remove annoying shit one by one in order of what the community finds the worst at the moment, first axtinguisher (yes it did deserve the nerf), then airblast, then degreaser, then powerjack, and so on and on. It will take ages though because people will always take a while to realize the next worst thing that they point at and say "this is what breaks the class and nothing else" I'd just keep Pyro as it is as a monument to badness of it honestly. /yes I'm very salty about this, of all things, right now

[QUOTE=Drury;48964846]I don't like when people look at Pyro, name all the issues it has, then cherry pick one and say "this is what breaks the class and nothing else" Pyro is a collection of horrible design that just needs scrapping and starting over. Alternatively, yes, we can just remove annoying shit one by one in order of what the community finds the worst at the moment, first axtinguisher (yes it did deserve the nerf), then airblast, then degreaser, then powerjack, and so on and on. It will take ages though because people will always take a while to realize the next worst thing that they point at and say "this is what breaks the class and nothing else" I'd just keep Pyro as it is as a monument to badness of it honestly. /yes I'm very salty about this, of all things, right now[/QUOTE] I think the idea of pyro being a top CQC class with his many critical hit weapons and the airblast, but what we have right now is frustrating. The airblast is frustrating and half of the pyro's weapons is frustrating (The reserve shooter is the worse). We need to have a huge rebalancing of the pyro. Trust me, I love the pyro (he's my main) but being stunlocked in the air and being pretty much instantly killed if he has a flaregun or the reserve shooter is frustrating as shit. The degreaser is the only primary that's useful at all (besides maybe the phlog), and the melees are the same with the Heavy's; they're all either niche or useless, with the only utility melee being shone above the west.

I remember back when people rallied for the Pyro to get the RS.... What were people thinking back then?

There are only two cases where it is OK for the pyro to use the RS: - Against demoknights - Against scouts that live just outside your flamethrower range but not outside their scattergun range

[QUOTE=X_Sam;48964884]I remember back when people rallied for the Pyro to get the RS.... What were people thinking back then?[/QUOTE] something about not having any weapons from Uber and rumors about the RS being designed for pyro basically it was an outcry of principles and no care was given to the actual stats and what would happen and it just happened that valve was at its peak of activity with the TF2BETA, so they added it in there first

The ridiculous prices of the Starduster and Corona Australis still pisses me off so much. I want those items so badly but there is no way in hell I can justify the price everybody is asking and literally every single one of these stupid fucking crates is a stupid fucking mercenary item and [I][B]I HATE IT UGH[/B][/I]

[QUOTE=TheEyes;48965941]There are only two cases where it is OK for the pyro to use the RS: - Against demoknights - Against scouts that live just outside your flamethrower range but not outside their scattergun range[/QUOTE] It's never okay to fight fire with fire.

[QUOTE=Drury;48966291]It's never okay to fight fire with fire.[/QUOTE] What about pyro vs pyro fights?

Especially not in pyro vs pyro fights.

[QUOTE=X_Sam;48964776]Is it wrong if I prefer the Gunboats to the Conch? I know the Conch is a phenomenal utility weapon, but I'm torn between which is better.[/QUOTE] I find that confusing, more than anything. The Conch to me is the objectively better option, because I always miss that health regen if I switch it out. And the Gunboats to me is the "never use, useless" option, because it's trading health regen/a second weapon for better rocket jumping.

You can dodge shit with gunboats, you can't with conch. It just puts you back in the fight faster, but it won't help you in the actual fight. Hence I never switch off of gunboats.

dunno, most classes are extremely exposed from above, and being able to kill them from there at the cost of a fraction of your hp its pretty important. then again, its a rather niche loadout that actually requires a lot of skill to pull effectively and its not as friendly to learn as other pick subclasses. roamer soldiers are a force to be reckon with.

I really liked when people would rush like crazy to get new cosmetics through crafts. I find it more fun than waiting for a rare crate\buy overpriced crate and buy yourself a key.

[QUOTE=TheEyes;48965941]There are only two cases where it is OK for the pyro to use the RS: - Against demoknights - Against scouts that live just outside your flamethrower range but not outside their scattergun range[/QUOTE] That second point is basically saying it's okay to use the Reserve Shooter because the Scout you're fighting is outplaying you.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;48966912]That second point is basically saying it's okay to use the Reserve Shooter because the Scout you're fighting is outplaying you.[/QUOTE] scout is a fast sniper without the ability to headshot and a lot more bullets

[QUOTE=TheEyes;48967120]scout is a fast sniper without the ability to headshot and a lot more bullets[/QUOTE] That's like saying soldier is basically sniper except you change everything

[QUOTE=_Pai;48967221]That's like saying soldier is basically sniper except you change everything[/QUOTE] except soldier requires skill

It annoys me that literally everything else in the Invasion cases have started to go down in price, except for the Commando items from the Confidential case. I've wanted to try to trade up for a Burstchester, but considering that Hammy is near worthless, I'm not paying 1.50 per item just to have a 50% shot to get a 3 dollar hamster.

[QUOTE=TheEyes;48967273]except soldier requires skill[/QUOTE] To be good at? Totally. But as a newbie? Soldier is one of the best classes to play. However Scout is hard to pick up because of how frail he is.

skill floor vs. skill ceiling ranking (estimate) skill floor (highest to lowest) Spy, Sniper, Scout, Demoman, Engineer, Soldier, Heavy, Pyro skill ceiling (highest to lowest) Spy, Sniper, Soldier, Scout, Demoman, Engineer, Heavy, Pyro Soldier is easy to pick up but has one of the highest skill ceilings. It doesn't require that much skill to get kills, but you've got things like airshots, rocketjumping across entire maps, he can do a lot more than Pyro if he's really good.

i'm not sure i completely agree with that list and where's medic

I'd say Pyro's a lot harder to play optimally than that. The fact you have to learn how to time reflects and learn how Flares arc and their travel time. Sure, Pyro's piss easy if you just w+m1, but there's more to the class than that.