CEVO Bans Natascha and Wrangler - Games

[QUOTE=Moupi;23799224]nothing will ever be as bad as competitive ssb [i]nothing[/i][/QUOTE] OMFG ZHU GOT OWNED WOMBO COMBO THAT AIN'T FALCO ROFL LAMO /caps

I must admit I agree with them about the Wrangler though. I don't mind that it allows Engineer's to get to new places by rocket jumping, I don't mind that it allows them to kill people outside of the sentries reach, I do not mind that the sentry bullets have no fall-off. What I do mind however, is that on top of all this is that goddamn shield that makes it near invincible and that makes it so that the "down time" when the Engineer switches weapons is barely a downside since it will be protected anyway. I think they should remove the Wrangler shield, or at least give it a serious nerf. Then it would be a perfectly balanced unlock.

why does anyone who dislikes comp tf2 even care about this why god, why

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23801797]why does anyone who dislikes comp tf2 even care about this why god, why[/QUOTE] I was just wondering this myself... If you're all pubstars that think using a weapon that glues enemies to the ground is a new "strategy" and don't even play in CEVO then why does this even matter to you? Thirteen pages of people whining about something that doesn't affect them at all is pretty fucking sad. [editline]10:48AM[/editline] Seems like every time competitive play is mentioned the terrible players poke their heads in to whine about something.

[QUOTE=Shounic;23801218]OMFG ZHU GOT OWNED WOMBO COMBO THAT AIN'T FALCO ROFL LAMO /caps[/QUOTE] Half-decent competitive SSBB player + Meta Knight = Instant win

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23801797]why does anyone who dislikes comp tf2 even care about this why god, why[/QUOTE] Because comp gamers ban everything until there's no point in playing the game anymore because everything is op and if you use anything op you will be branded as a cheater.

[QUOTE=darkzero226;23802114]Because comp gamers ban everything until there's no point in playing the game anymore because everything is op and if you use anything op you will be branded as a cheater.[/QUOTE] They ban 3 weapons that have terrible balance issues and you say they ban everything? Why does it even matter to you? You'll just join a 2fort/payload server and never think twice about the weapon bans...

[QUOTE=Cirno;23802148]They ban 3 weapons that have terrible balance issues and you say they ban everything? Why does it even matter to you? You'll just join a 2fort/payload server and never think twice about the weapon bans...[/QUOTE] Because valve then decides to nerf perfectly balanced weapons to the point where they aren't useful anymore.

[QUOTE=darkzero226;23802114]Because comp gamers ban everything until there's no point in playing the game anymore because everything is op and if you use anything op you will be branded as a cheater.[/QUOTE] Oh hey, another person that doesn't know what he's tallking about what a suprise.

[QUOTE=darkzero226;23802187]Because valve then decides to nerf perfectly balanced weapons to the point where they aren't useful anymore.[/QUOTE] Competitive TF2 players have been having issues with Natascha for a long time, yet Valve has yet to nerf it... Know why? Because Valve doesn't pay attention to comp TF2, they watch the [url=http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80]Steam Powered User Forums[/url] and when they see a shit ton of threads about something, they evaluate that something and decide whether to take action or not. [quote=Sigma] heavies came out on every map this season in invite (and almost every match of the lan, often doubled up). It's to the point that even mid fights, where the heavy is traditionally terrible due to his speed, would see a heavy showing up. The increased speed + reduced spin time turned heavy from situational to crazy good. I don't know about open or other leagues, but if players there aren't using it it's a result of not trying it and seeing how broken it is. Scouts pretty much cannot make any plays once a natascha heavy is spun up. They get hit by 1 bullet, are totally frozen + get directed + die. Soldiers and demomen can't peek corners, because the bullet stream will cause them to be too slow to escape from the return spam. As a medic, you pretty much have to treat the natascha heavy as a sniper -- once he slows you, you take damage from almost every rocket, so you have to stay out of LoS. If you suggest getting a heavy of your own or a sniper to counter it, sure, that works, but the game slows to a crawl and is no longer fun. On the other hand, heavies are extremely effective for creating a health advantage through sandvich use and following up pushes with the huge 450hp buff. This remains unchanged with the regular minigun (and is in fact more exciting, because the heavy exchange happens much faster). The heavy can still hold the flank 1v2, but only if he has good tracking -- as opposed to the natascha version, where he can sit spun up on a corner and get a guaranteed kill on any scout that peeks it.[/quote] That is pretty much why Natascha was banned [b]FROM CEVO[/b](AKA not your pub server). [quote=Sigma]It only takes a couple scrims on gpit to see what's wrong with it. Sentries have no damage falloff. This is fine if they have limited range, but when you can put a gun in a sniper's position and spam huge damage from long range, then pick up said gun and hide it once it (eventually) gets damaged, the attacking team has no counter. The engy can sit at spawn with his gun, get free damage on any team that decides to push through C, then pick it up, teleport to B, and put it super far away from the doors to spam more long-range damage. You can try things like double-DHing it, but you still need 6 or more rockets to bring it down (thanks to the ridiculous shield), and the engy can easily just pick it up and hide it, the shield will let it live long enough. Heck, you could even rocket jump a teleporter to the roof and teleport your gun (and team) up there (without having to deal with the old problems of taking a long time to get up and being vulnerable to snipers). Who wants to push B with a heavy, level 3 infinite range sentry, sniper, demo, med, soldier all sitting on the roof? I know I don't.[/quote] And that is pretty much why the Wrangler was banned [b]FROM CEVO[/b](AKA not your pub server). One of these days you kids will realize that none of the "nerfs" to your favorite items were because of leagues and you will see that it is the SPUF that causes your favorite items to be "nerfed".

[QUOTE=Cirno;23802046]If you're all pubstars that think using a weapon that glues enemies to the ground is a new "strategy" and don't even play in CEVO then why does this even matter to you? Seems like every time competitive play is mentioned the terrible players poke their heads in to whine about something.[/QUOTE] I notice you have a very unique way of making people like you.

[QUOTE=Simski;23802590]I notice you have a very unique way of making people like you.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't care if a bunch of terrible players "like" me on an internet forum.

[QUOTE=Moupi;23799224]nothing will ever be as bad as competitive ssb [I]nothing[/I][/QUOTE] I once was friends with this guy who was a competitive SSBM player. It was so fucking boring every time we played, since it was always HUR DUR NO ITEMS, FOX ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION. [editline]01:52PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Cirno;23802046]I was just wondering this myself... If you're all pubstars that think using [B]a weapon that glues enemies to the ground[/B] is a new "strategy" and don't even play in CEVO then why does this even matter to you? Thirteen pages of people whining about something that doesn't affect them at all is pretty fucking sad. [editline]10:48AM[/editline] Seems like every time competitive play is mentioned the terrible players poke their heads in to whine about something.[/QUOTE] Totally not exaggerating in any way, shape or form. [QUOTE=Cirno;23802535]Competitive TF2 players have been having issues with Natascha for a long time, yet Valve has yet to nerf it... Know why? Because Valve doesn't pay attention to comp TF2, they watch the [URL="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80"]Steam Powered User Forums[/URL] and when they see a shit ton of threads about something, they evaluate that something and decide whether to take action or not. [B]Oh yeah, Valve doesn't pay attention to comp players at all. I'm sure that is why they set up a beta for them to help "balance" weapons. While it is true the whining babies at the steam forums dictate much of the nerfing, comp players, which are a very small minority of players, who do not even play the game as intended, shouldn't have such a high say in what gets nerfed. The CEVO ban of the sandman sparked much of its hatred, leading to its nerfing. And two perfectly balanced weapons will soon follow suit. [/B] One of these days you kids will realize that none of the "nerfs" to your favorite items were because of leagues and you will see that it is the SPUF that causes your favorite items to be "nerfed". [B]Great insult. Down talking everybody who disagrees with you on a topic by calling them kids. I'm sure you'll be great in politics.[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Cirno;23802666]I honestly don't care if a bunch of terrible players "like" me on an internet forum.[/QUOTE] Do you enjoy the smell of your own shit?

[QUOTE=darkzero226;23802187]Because valve then decides to nerf perfectly balanced weapons to the point where they aren't useful anymore.[/QUOTE] because valve only listens to the competitive players, right? i'm not even going to bother giving a proper response to this argument as it has literally been posted every other page and it has also been responded to, every other page. please try doing more than reading the title of the topic and restating what every misinformed pubber thinks.

[QUOTE=Owner3;23804633]because valve only listens to the competitive players, right? i'm not even going to bother giving a proper response to this argument as it has literally been posted every other page and it has also been responded to, every other page. please try doing more than reading the title of the topic and restating what every misinformed pubber thinks.[/QUOTE] Sup, time for me to annoy the fuck out of you again. Yes, they do pay more attention to the competitive players than they should. Valve should be focusing on the public playerbase (the good playerbase), as that is where the majority resides, and where changes have the greatest impact. Quite a few of the useless nerfs came from SPUF, true. But a lot of the serious nerfs can be sourced back to competitive gamers being little bitches about anything new, remember, if it isn't a clean, sterile, samefest, it isn't competitive! Public players should have more say in what gets nerfed, but thanks to competitive gaming, the mass amount of idiots who play in public servers seem to enjoy having their heads so far up "ommgS00ProZZ" asshole that they follow everything the blind competitive gamer says, so if Natascha is bad to them for whatever bullshit reasons they have, then it is suddenly bad for [B]everyone[/B]. Which then leads to the nerfing. Competitive players need to realize that stuff being added into the game isn't a problem unless you make it one, almost every weapon they complained about was fine, I'm pretty sure that Valve are the [B]developers[/B], and they actually take time to [B]play test[/B] the new content to pick up any serious unbalances. If the compfags (hey, you called us pubbers, time for my derogatory insult) would actually wake the FUCK up, they would realize that if they want a weapon to be balanced for them, they can modify the .ctx themselves and stop crying. It isn't hard, it isn't gamebreaking and most importantly, it stops the game being ruined for us, the paying customer who plays the game as it was meant to be, as a relaxed, semi-serious piece of [B]entertainment.[/B]

[QUOTE=hexpunK;23804880]they can modify the .ctx themselves and stop crying.[/QUOTE] This! Instead of banning and letting nobody use the weapons, why not just modify them for their needs and everyone is happy?

[QUOTE=-Ana;23804949]This! Instead of banning and letting nobody use the weapons, why not just modify them for their needs and everyone is happy?[/QUOTE]They're too busy honing their skills to do anything else. But seriously, valve should make a "switch" of sorts to apply these modifications to servers.

[QUOTE=credesniper;23805092]They're too busy honing their skills to do anything else. But seriously, valve should make a "switch" of sorts to apply these modifications to servers.[/QUOTE] "sv_itakegamessrsly 1"

[QUOTE=Cirno;23802535]Competitive TF2 players have been having issues with Natascha for a long time, yet Valve has yet to nerf it... Know why? Because Valve doesn't pay attention to comp TF2, they watch the [url=http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=80]Steam Powered User Forums[/url] and when they see a shit ton of threads about something, they evaluate that something and decide whether to take action or not. That is pretty much why Natascha was banned [b]FROM CEVO[/b](AKA not your pub server). One of these days you kids will realize that none of the "nerfs" to your favorite items were because of leagues and you will see that it is the SPUF that causes your favorite items to be "nerfed".[/QUOTE] [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/900111/10%20out%20of%2010%20shotheads.jpg[/img]

CEVO needs to man up

The Natascha isn't overpowered. Me and my friend did a 1-on-1 Scout vs. Heavy fight, he had the Natascha and I owned him just with the bat.

[QUOTE=BlueFlash;23805344]The Natascha isn't overpowered. Me and my friend did a 1-on-1 Scout vs. Heavy fight, he had the Natascha and I owned him just with the bat.[/QUOTE] Sure so any scout can pull that off with any heavy

[QUOTE=hexpunK;23804880]Sup, time for me to annoy the fuck out of you again. Yes, they do pay more attention to the competitive players than they should. Valve should be focusing on the public playerbase (the good playerbase), as that is where the majority resides, and where changes have the greatest impact. Quite a few of the useless nerfs came from SPUF, true. But a lot of the serious nerfs can be sourced back to competitive gamers being little bitches about anything new, remember, if it isn't a clean, sterile, samefest, it isn't competitive! [b]no, they don't. valve realizes that comp players are free to ban any weapons they dislike, so they're not constantly trying to appease them. many of the nerfs valve brings about that benefit the competitive community also benefit the public community. i hate to constantly bring up this example, but, who is honestly angry the sandman doesn't completely stun you as it did before? a lot of the "serious nerfs" can be traced back to public players too, you act as if valve only appeases the competitive players. valve knows there's a line between competitive and public players, and they try to make their updates appeal to both sides. they've been doing a very good job of that.[/b] Public players should have more say in what gets nerfed, but thanks to competitive gaming, the mass amount of idiots who play in public servers seem to enjoy having their heads so far up "ommgS00ProZZ" asshole that they follow everything the blind competitive gamer says, so if Natascha is bad to them for whatever bullshit reasons they have, then it is suddenly bad for [B]everyone[/B]. Which then leads to the nerfing. Competitive players need to realize that stuff being added into the game isn't a problem unless you make it one, almost every weapon they complained about was fine, I'm pretty sure that Valve are the [B]developers[/B], and they actually take time to [B]play test[/B] the new content to pick up any serious unbalances. [b]i think you're beginning to deteoriate into generalizing and stereotyping. natascha is bad news for competitive players, so they banned it. please see my first paragraph regarding how valve fully realizes comp players are free to ban whatever weapons they want. valve isn't going to nerf a weapon because competitive players disagree with it, they'll do what's good for everyone. your average pub player isn't going to be happy about another natascha nerf, and valve knows that. your last sentence has many "holes" in it. no matter how hard a developer tries to playtest their weapons and balance them; it's always the players that will create new tactics and reveal unbalances with the weapons.[/b] If the compfags (hey, you called us pubbers, time for my derogatory insult) would actually wake the FUCK up, they would realize that if they want a weapon to be balanced for them, they can modify the .ctx themselves and stop crying. It isn't hard, it isn't gamebreaking and most importantly, it stops the game being ruined for us, the paying customer who plays the game as it was meant to be, as a relaxed, semi-serious piece of [B]entertainment.[/B] [b]i apologize if you find the term "pubbers" offensive as it's merely a term used to easily refer to those of the player base that aren't competitive. competitive players do realize they can nerf the weapons themselves, they're not expecting valve to do everything for them. competitive players are paying customers as well and it's their business if they want to play the game competitively (that's their way of getting entertainment).[/b] [/QUOTE]

yeah blueflash that was a really stupid thing to say

[QUOTE=BlueFlash;23805344]The Natascha isn't overpowered. Me and my friend did a 1-on-1 Scout vs. Heavy fight, he had the Natascha and I owned him just with the bat.[/QUOTE] Your friend is terrible. Want to try that out with me?

[QUOTE=wewt!;23805311]CEVO needs to man up[/QUOTE] Someone should do a Saxton Hale comic where he beats up a bunch of Pro players because they don't favour his new weapons or something, and then causes property damage. I mean, you'd be angry too if people ban your new guns.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;23805513]Your friend is terrible. Want to try that out with me?[/QUOTE] Rite nao, u and me.

lol, competetive gamers.

valve, stop listening to these fucktards please their matches are designed around a very specific team setup which barely applies to regular TF2 players at all

[QUOTE=hexpunK;23804880]they can modify the .ctx themselves and stop crying.[/QUOTE] as usual, the one solution that pleases everyone isn't mentioned until page 13