[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;23806279]as usual, the one solution that pleases everyone isn't mentioned until page 13[/QUOTE]
It was posted like page 1, but everyone was in a blind rage and ignored it :v:
items_game.txt
Tell them to edit that and they wouldn't have to ban.
(For anybody confused, I have an items_game.txt file in tf/scripts/items in the .gcf)
You guys just don't understand the complexity man you guys are all whiners and can't handle the pressure of competitive gaming. I'm a paying customer too and the competitive way of play is superior in every way. Public matches are a joke.
[QUOTE=BirdsOnMyBack;23807086]You guys just don't understand the complexity man you guys are all whiners and can't handle the pressure of competitive gaming. I'm a paying customer too and the competitive way of play is superior in every way. Public matches are a joke.[/QUOTE]
Get lost, you're in the minority. Why should shit be balanced around your frankly BORING playstyle?
[QUOTE=Blueridge;23805430]Sure so any scout can pull that off with any heavy[/QUOTE]
A weapon is only OP when a noob can own a good player
[QUOTE=NeoDement;23807162]Get lost, you're in the minority. Why should shit be balanced around your frankly BORING playstyle?[/QUOTE]
Because it's the best.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;23807162]Get lost, you're in the minority. Why should shit be balanced around your frankly BORING playstyle?[/QUOTE]
Cuz he trol u lol
[QUOTE=hexpunK;23804880]Sup, time for me to annoy the fuck out of you again.
Yes, they do pay more attention to the competitive players than they should. Valve should be focusing on the public playerbase (the good playerbase), as that is where the majority resides, and where changes have the greatest impact. Quite a few of the useless nerfs came from SPUF, true. But a lot of the serious nerfs can be sourced back to competitive gamers being little bitches about anything new, remember, if it isn't a clean, sterile, samefest, it isn't competitive!
Public players should have more say in what gets nerfed, but thanks to competitive gaming, the mass amount of idiots who play in public servers seem to enjoy having their heads so far up "ommgS00ProZZ" asshole that they follow everything the blind competitive gamer says, so if Natascha is bad to them for whatever bullshit reasons they have, then it is suddenly bad for [B]everyone[/B]. Which then leads to the nerfing. Competitive players need to realize that stuff being added into the game isn't a problem unless you make it one, almost every weapon they complained about was fine, I'm pretty sure that Valve are the [B]developers[/B], and they actually take time to [B]play test[/B] the new content to pick up any serious unbalances.
If the compfags (hey, you called us pubbers, time for my derogatory insult) would actually wake the FUCK up, they would realize that if they want a weapon to be balanced for them, they can modify the .ctx themselves and stop crying. It isn't hard, it isn't gamebreaking and most importantly, it stops the game being ruined for us, the paying customer who plays the game as it was meant to be, as a relaxed, semi-serious piece of [B]entertainment.[/B][/QUOTE]
Tough shit, it's a few weapon changes, you should [B]adapt[/B] to them.
And pubbers isn't offensive but comp[B]fag[/B] is quite clearly.
[QUOTE=Rct33;23807656]Tough shit, it's a few weapon changes, you should [B]adapt[/B] to them.
And pubbers isn't offensive but comp[B]fag[/B] is quite clearly.[/QUOTE]
You can adapt to a balanced weapon, not an underpowered one.
And pubbers IS offensive. Why not just call us the regular TF2 community? No. We have to be put into this group as if it is something to feel bad about.
[QUOTE=_Junkie_;23809498]You can adapt to a balanced weapon, not an underpowered one.
And pubbers IS offensive. Why not just call us the regular TF2 community? No. We have to be put into this group as if it is something to feel bad about.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DLMan;23790747]Hi, I'm a high level competitive player, someone linked me to this topic and I just saw that there's a lot of misconceptions, I'll try to clear these up.
One of the main reasons why natasha was banned is because it's simply too effective at mid-long range. If a bullet even hits you at those ranges you're slowed down to a crawl and you won't be able to escape before you get focus fired by the entire team.
A main reason why wrangler was banned is because it can tank an absurd amount of damage and there wasn't a reliable way to take it down. The level of skill in a competitive environment is much higher, so even the classes that may be able to take it down easily in pub play (spy/sniper) would not fare so well in comp play, since there will be very tight communication and awareness limiting the spy, and the engineer will most likely not be standing still in plain sight for a sniper to just pick him. Not to mention the sentry has unlimited range and no damage fall off which turns it into pretty much the only class that can easily control an area from afar, excluding sniper.
Sandman is banned is because once you're stunned vs a coordinated team you have a very large chance of dying, and there's really no risk to just lobbing the sandman at a group of enemies at a choke point.
All of these also ruin the fast paced flow of the game.
Gunboats wasn't nerfed because of comp players, the vast majority of them did not find it a problem at all.
These weapons would cause problems in regular pub play too if the average pub team had as much coordination as a focused competitive team.
If you guys have any questions or anything feel free to ask, I'm not here to start a flame war just to clear things up.[/QUOTE]
while a weapon may seemed balanced and adaptable to the way a pub game plays, that may not be the case for a competitive player's game. on another note, why would you take offense to pubbers? "regular tf2 community" is way too arduous to frequently type out and competitive players are part of the community, are they not? pubbers is simply a term used to describe those who aren't competitive. you play in public servers, so "pubbers" seems fairly appropriate.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;23807415]Cuz he trol u lol[/QUOTE]
oh yeah well apply my seriousness to that other guy instead
[QUOTE=Owner3;23810132]you play in public servers, so "pubbers" seems fairly appropriate.[/QUOTE]
You do tend to use "pubbers" as if it's something bad though.
It's always "you pubbers" as if we're the lower rank of players.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;23807162]Get lost, you're in the minority. Why should shit be balanced around your frankly BORING playstyle?[/QUOTE]
are you implying valve is only balancing their weapons around what competitive players are saying, not the public (the majority)? i have no idea where all of you seem to have been getting that idea. multiple competitive people have come into this topic and have said that competitive players didn't cause half of the nerfs you're accusing them of. please stop regurgitating the same argument of "competitive players are ruining my game and influencing valve" because it just isn't true.
[editline]10:16PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Simski;23810443]You do tend to use "pubbers" as if it's something bad though.
It's always "you pubbers" as if we're the lower rank of players.[/QUOTE]
i'm a pubber myself. you're only interpreting what i say as bad, i am not saying it offensively.
[QUOTE=Owner3;23810450]you're only interpreting what i say as bad[/QUOTE]
lol wut?
[QUOTE=Lolkork;23807541]The main reason why comp players cant play together with players using the unlock weapons is because they do not counter these weapons, the only thing you have to do to get rid of a natascha heavy or a wrangled sentry is to take them out with either sniper or spy, because they have 1 hit kill attacks and can attack unseen.[/QUOTE]
Again, spy relies on discoordination. A coordinated team with mics will rarly be caught by a spy and people are smart enough to stay out of snipers range you know. not to mention you give up a spot to be sniper
[QUOTE=Simski;23810505]lol wut?[/QUOTE]
i don't mean anything bad when i use the term "pubbers", i'm sorry you view it that way.
[QUOTE=DLMan;23790747]Hi, I'm a high level competitive player, someone linked me to this topic and I just saw that there's a lot of misconceptions, I'll try to clear these up.
One of the main reasons why natasha was banned is because it's simply too effective at mid-long range. If a bullet even hits you at those ranges you're slowed down to a crawl and you won't be able to escape before you get focus fired by the entire team.
A main reason why wrangler was banned is because it can tank an absurd amount of damage and there wasn't a reliable way to take it down. The level of skill in a competitive environment is much higher, so even the classes that may be able to take it down easily in pub play (spy/sniper) would not fare so well in comp play, since there will be very tight communication and awareness limiting the spy, and the engineer will most likely not be standing still in plain sight for a sniper to just pick him. Not to mention the sentry has unlimited range and no damage fall off which turns it into pretty much the only class that can easily control an area from afar, excluding sniper.
Sandman is banned is because once you're stunned vs a coordinated team you have a very large chance of dying, and there's really no risk to just lobbing the sandman at a group of enemies at a choke point.
All of these also ruin the fast paced flow of the game.
Gunboats wasn't nerfed because of comp players, the vast majority of them did not find it a problem at all.
These weapons would cause problems in regular pub play too if the average pub team had as much coordination as a focused competitive team.
If you guys have any questions or anything feel free to ask, I'm not here to start a flame war just to clear things up.[/QUOTE]
RE: The sandman. Isn't this offset by the loss of max health to the scout? I'm pretty sure it puts him in rocket and sticky OHKO range.
The only competitions I take seriously are competitive highlander games.
[QUOTE=Mechtroid;23811298]RE: The sandman. Isn't this offset by the loss of max health to the scout? I'm pretty sure it puts him in rocket and sticky OHKO range.[/QUOTE]
No weapon in a fps should take away your ability to fight.
[QUOTE=_Junkie_;23809498]You can adapt to a balanced weapon, not an underpowered one.
And pubbers IS offensive. Why not just call us the regular TF2 community? No. We have to be put into this group as if it is something to feel bad about.[/QUOTE]
oh ur such a pubber
rofl
[QUOTE=Mechtroid;23811298]RE: The sandman. Isn't this offset by the loss of max health to the scout? I'm pretty sure it puts him in rocket and sticky OHKO range.[/QUOTE]
any decent scout can dodge well enough so that isn't a problem, or just stun them and then there's no risk of a one hit kill at all
[editline]07:31PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=elitestrider;23811916]No weapon in a fps should take away your ability to fight.[/QUOTE]
also this
I don't see why there's so much hate against comp players. The only 2 changes to weapons where comp players were directly involved were the syringe gun/blutsauger balance and the Sandman changes, both of which are [I]good[/I] things. As for the gunboats nerf, people seem to attribute this to comp players, but from my experience nobody ever complained about it, and it was regarded to be worse than the shotgun.
As for anyone saying the comp playstyle is boring/lame/not fun etc, I can't think of anything more fun than working together with 6 of my best mates playing towards an objective. If it wasn't fun, nobody would play comp.
For the record, I play a fair bit of pubs too, both ways of playing the game are great fun.
[QUOTE=Mechtroid;23811298]RE: The sandman. Isn't this offset by the loss of max health to the scout? I'm pretty sure it puts him in rocket and sticky OHKO range.[/QUOTE]
Well seeing as after someone is stunned the scout just doesn't run straight up to them like in pubs, so the health loss is hardly noticeable outside a 1v1...
The whole "it disrupts the flow of the game" shit is a dumb excuse for "It slows us down and kills us and waaaaaaaaah!".
That's what you get for removing a fuckton of key elements from the game.
[QUOTE=EXoDUSFLT;23815853]The whole "it disrupts the flow of the game" shit is a dumb excuse for "It slows us down and kills us and waaaaaaaaah!".[/QUOTE]
Being completely unable to move with no hopes of surviving when someone's attacking you from across the map definitely does disrupt the flow of the game.
[QUOTE=EXoDUSFLT;23815853]The whole "it disrupts the flow of the game" shit is a dumb excuse for "It slows us down and kills us and waaaaaaaaah!".
That's what you get for removing a fuckton of key elements from the game.[/QUOTE]
3 unbalanced weapons and critical hits (something else that takes skill out of it) is "a fuckton"?
And I don't get why all of you guys can say that the comp players are whining, while this whole topic is you guys complain about nerfs that you brought upon yourselves. The comp players just took initiative and got rid of something they didn't like, that isn't whining.
[QUOTE=Baboo00;23816048]Being completely unable to move with no hopes of surviving when someone's attacking you from across the map definitely does disrupt the flow of the game.[/QUOTE]
This, and it just makes the person a huge target for any other teammates in the vicinity that have a sitting duck target who could have dodged if they weren't slowed down.
Too much whining in this thread.
Comp players have their reasons for banning weapons. Their gameplay is much different from pub gameplay.
I also haven't heard people offended by the term "pubbers" before.
Quit the bitching.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;23789726]
And the leagues are composed of... What? Robots or something? I mean, if they're not players, then clearly they don't play the game so half the shit they ban is decided by hearsay, right?
Oh, wait, that's RIGHT, the LEAGUES make these decisions in MEETINGS comprised of PLAYERS.[/QUOTE]
None of you comp-players have argued this point yet, I'm truly curious.
[QUOTE=Baboo00;23816048]Being completely unable to move with no hopes of surviving when someone's attacking you from across the map definitely does disrupt the flow of the game.[/QUOTE]
Except you can still move fine. If not slightly slower depending in your class. A Scout will take a massive drop in speed, but a Soldier takes very little due to his speed (unless he is using the equaliser). Kind of a shame that competitive players feel that the classes that take minimal effect are "useless" for the most part.
If competitive players were as good as that claim, they would stop bitching, adapt to the new balance, and get the fuck on with their lives (well, what little of a life they have). Instead of outright banning a perfectly counter-able weapon. But that would mean change, and change is baaaaaddss :saddowns:
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;23818661]None of you comp-players have argued this point yet, I'm truly curious.[/QUOTE]
Yes, these decisions are made by league admins who usually play a high tier, at least in the Australian scene. I have a lot of respect for those guys, who are much better players than me and have a ton more experience too. So in effect, they know more about game balance than I do and I'd trust them with the decision.
And just as my own personal opinion, I agree with the banned weapons list. Natasha to me feels like a cheap, low skill weapon and its slowdown effect can often mean the difference between life and death in a low-player-count game. Sandman similarly is a cheap, one-sided affair with minimal downsides. Wrangler makes a damn near impenetrable defense when combined with a high-skill, coordinated team, not to mention the downside of losing a pistol is measly at best.
The only thing I sort of disagree with is the removal of community weapons (gunboats, southern hospitality, etc) simply because of the method they are distributed; even then some leagues allow them if both teams agree.
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