As a heavy player, natasha is balanced, 25% less damage means a lot.
But not as a heavy player, the slow is really annoying when a heavy, eons away from you is slowing you and dealing almost no damage, it's plain annoying not to count you become a target for snipers.
And i'm not even going to get on competitive discussion, i also dislike competitive players but, everyone has free will to play the way he wants, not to mention there are MANY other servers in the world.
[QUOTE=Uber_Tofu;23779743][img]http://filesmelt.com/dl/casuals.png[/img]
[editline]04:12PM[/editline]
Don't mind cheesist, he's 12.[/QUOTE]
Sort of figured that out.
People whine about weapons that kill them constantly.
I seriously doubt that banning a weapon from a class that is rarely played competitively is going to make Valve change it.
I personally think a good Natascha nerf would be any of the following (NOT ALL AT ONCE VALVE FOR FUCKS SAKE)
* Original minigun spinup time
* Original minigun walk speed (kinda defeats the point though)
* 25-50% less ammo
They should just ban every unlock and all classes except soldier.
[editline]10:45AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=NeoDement;23780192]I personally think a good Natascha nerf would be any of the following (NOT ALL AT ONCE VALVE FOR FUCKS SAKE)
* Original minigun spinup time
* Original minigun walk speed (kinda defeats the point though)
* 25-50% less ammo[/QUOTE]
It doesn't need a nerf.
Competitive players are just too comfortable with their boring 2x scout, 2x soldier, 1x demo, 1x medic setup that they can't think of new strategies. BAAAWWWWW THIS NEW WEAPON MAKES ME DEVISE A NEW METHOD OF PLAYING BAN IT BAN IT
[QUOTE=plack213;23780062]People whine about weapons that kill them constantly.[/QUOTE]
You just noticed?
[QUOTE=Baboo00;23780195]They should just ban every unlock and all classes except soldier.
[editline]10:45AM[/editline]
It doesn't need a nerf.[/QUOTE]
It kinda does, it's better against every class except other Heavies. It negates the need to aim.
To be honest I think the 2scout 2 solly 1demo 1medic setup is outdated because of the new weapons. It would be good if they could mix it up a bit ...
I'm not whining because I get killed by it a lot by the way, I'm a proficient Heavy killer and I actually use Sasha myself. I'm not whining full stop, just stating my personal feelings on the matter.
[QUOTE=NeoDement;23780247]I'm not whining because I get killed by it a lot by the way, I'm a proficient Heavy killer and I actually use Sasha myself. I'm not whining full stop, just stating my personal feelings on the matter.[/QUOTE]
I understand and completely agree. However, it's also quite useless because 25% damage is quite a lot to reduce. The whole weapon was quite poorly designed in general.
[QUOTE=Dr.Scrake;23779506]They ban natascha but not the direct hit.
Yeah. :colbert:[/QUOTE]
DH is underpowered in competitive play, you loon.
Also, Natascha is a straight upgrade from Sascha unless you're going heavy against a sentry or another heavy, which [i]never fucking happens in competitive play.[/i]
The Wrangler gives the engie the ability to sentry-jump to really unfair sentry placement locations on courses that have setup time (read: Gravelpit) and the health buff for the sentry is unbalanced as well.
A lot of times the leagues make decisions that don't make sense to most players not involved in the actual competitive scene, and as such are labeled as "sissy" or "weak," but you have to understand that these decisions
[b]1. Aren't made by the players themselves, but by the leagues which are tragically separate from the actual players[/b]
For this reason, it's really unreasonable to rag on competitive players whenever decisions like these are made.
[b]2. Are intended to provide a more even playing field, and prevent major changes to the way the game is played. [/b]
It's not really fair to ask competitive teams to reorder their strategy every time Valve introduces something as weird as the wrangler, or, notoriously, the Sandman. That's why you don't often hear the word "overpowered" when this kind of decision is made, but rather, "unbalanced." It affects the [i]balance[/i] of the game, and that's what the problem is.
When valve rolls out something like Natascha, the effect is similar to the NFL deciding one year that it's okay for linebackers to facemask wide receivers on the other team, or if the NBA ruled that traveling was no longer against the rules, or if they made the goals 3 feet wider in soccer one day. Sure, the game is still playable, and you can say things like "wide receivers are pussies if they can't stand being facemasked from time to time" or "traveling was a gay rule anyways" or "a true keeper should be able to defend a goal any size," but they're game-changing elements that really wreck the flow of the action.
[editline]12:21PM[/editline]
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, competitive play is drastically different than public server play, and it's not really possible for someone to speak intelligently regarding the way 6v6 is played without being well-acquainted with it.
sissies
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;23780242]To be honest I think the 2scout 2 solly 1demo 1medic setup is outdated because of the new weapons. It would be good if they could mix it up a bit ...[/QUOTE]
Mixing it up? Forming new and improved strategies and adapting to updated gameplay changes instead of just banning anything that doesn't work with the 'tried and true'? In [i]competitive play[/i]? [b]HAAH WAAW[/b]
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23780682]DH is underpowered in competitive play, you loon.
Also, Natascha is a straight upgrade from Sascha unless you're going heavy against a sentry or another heavy, which [i]never fucking happens in competitive play.[/i]
The Wrangler gives the engie the ability to sentry-jump to really unfair sentry placement locations on courses that have setup time (read: Gravelpit) and the health buff for the sentry is unbalanced as well.
A lot of times the leagues make decisions that don't make sense to most players not involved in the actual competitive scene, and as such are labeled as "sissy" or "weak," but you have to understand that these decisions
[b]1. Aren't made by the players themselves, but by the leagues which are tragically separate from the actual players[/b]
For this reason, it's really unreasonable to rag on competitive players whenever decisions like these are made.
[b]2. Are intended to provide a more even playing field, and prevent major changes to the way the game is played. [/b]
It's not really fair to ask competitive teams to reorder their strategy every time Valve introduces something as weird as the wrangler, or, notoriously, the Sandman. That's why you don't often hear the word "overpowered" when this kind of decision is made, but rather, "unbalanced." It affects the [i]balance[/i] of the game, and that's what the problem is.
When valve rolls out something like Natascha, the effect is similar to the NFL deciding one year that it's okay for linebackers to facemask wide receivers on the other team, or if the NBA ruled that traveling was no longer against the rules, or if they made the goals 3 feet wider in soccer one day. Sure, the game is still playable, and you can say things like "wide receivers are pussies if they can't stand being facemasked from time to time" or "traveling was a gay rule anyways" or "a true keeper should be able to defend a goal any size," but they're game-changing elements that really wreck the flow of the action.
[editline]12:21PM[/editline]
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, competitive play is drastically different than public server play, and it's not really possible for someone to speak intelligently regarding the way 6v6 is played without being well-acquainted with it.[/QUOTE]
so a professional team can't take out a measly sentry
If they managed to break my precious gunboats, maybe these imbeciles will force valve to downgrade even more weapons. :saddowns:
[QUOTE=Kentz;23779652]Not really it's a clear upgrade compared to Sasha[/QUOTE]
Actually, a Sasha-Heavy can gun down a Natascha-Heavy pretty easily. The former has a lot more firepower.
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23780682]It's not really fair to ask competitive teams to reorder their strategy every time Valve introduces something as weird as the wrangler, or, notoriously, the Sandman.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Yes it is fair.
What's the matter? It's not like everyone was playing on their servers.
But I agreed if Valve listen to these cunts, I will burn like a motherfucking shining star.
valve gives these weapons out for free
it reeks of ungratefulness when a bunch of elitists ban a perfectly balanced weapon because they can't adapt.
[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23780682]DH is underpowered in competitive play, you loon.
Also, Natascha is a straight upgrade from Sascha unless you're going heavy against a sentry or another heavy, which [i]never fucking happens in competitive play.[/i]
The Wrangler gives the engie the ability to sentry-jump to really unfair sentry placement locations on courses that have setup time (read: Gravelpit) and the health buff for the sentry is unbalanced as well.
A lot of times the leagues make decisions that don't make sense to most players not involved in the actual competitive scene, and as such are labeled as "sissy" or "weak," but you have to understand that these decisions
[b]1. Aren't made by the players themselves, but by the leagues which are tragically separate from the actual players[/b]
For this reason, it's really unreasonable to rag on competitive players whenever decisions like these are made.
[b]2. Are intended to provide a more even playing field, and prevent major changes to the way the game is played. [/b]
It's not really fair to ask competitive teams to reorder their strategy every time Valve introduces something as weird as the wrangler, or, notoriously, the Sandman. That's why you don't often hear the word "overpowered" when this kind of decision is made, but rather, "unbalanced." It affects the [i]balance[/i] of the game, and that's what the problem is.
When valve rolls out something like Natascha, the effect is similar to the NFL deciding one year that it's okay for linebackers to facemask wide receivers on the other team, or if the NBA ruled that traveling was no longer against the rules, or if they made the goals 3 feet wider in soccer one day. Sure, the game is still playable, and you can say things like "wide receivers are pussies if they can't stand being facemasked from time to time" or "traveling was a gay rule anyways" or "a true keeper should be able to defend a goal any size," but they're game-changing elements that really wreck the flow of the action.
[editline]12:21PM[/editline]
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, competitive play is drastically different than public server play, and it's not really possible for someone to speak intelligently regarding the way 6v6 is played without being well-acquainted with it.[/QUOTE]
That argument is still dumb. TF2 is all about adapting to gameplay changes and forming new strategies to work with new changes. Eliminating anything new in favor of keeping the old strategies and playing the exact same way you always have been goes against what TF2 is all about. It's not fun or interesting at all. It's just like a bunch of old people whining that their generation of music was the best while all the new kids mixing it up and trying new things are "bad".
Seems to me that it all boils down to this line of thought: "Everything in the game has to be exactly the same and completely expected! The other team doing something different or making new strategies upsets the balance because I didn't expect it! I'm supposed to know exactly what they're doing so that my long hours of honing my [i]skills[/i] don't go to waste!" And you know what? That's just a bunch of crying.
Team Fortress 2 is a game that changes its rules all the time. That's all fine and cute that you "serious" competitive dudes want to keep playing it like it was on day one since you're too afraid to learn to do something other than play the same exact class you have been for the past three years, but quit outwardly bitching about changes made to the game and calling them "unbalanced". It's causing Valve to nerf things that don't need to be nerfed and tailor the game to your, as Perfumly lovingly calls it, [b]sissy[/b] way of playing. That ruins it for everyone else. You know, the people who actually play the [i]game[/i] to have [i]fun[/i].
Well, atleast now the competitive players have a chance to win against the 12 year olds. :shivdurf:
^truer words have never been spoken.
[editline]05:49PM[/editline]
I was referring to shugo's post
We are elite gamers,
Fucking remove this, it's overpowered.
[QUOTE=Shugo;23781086]That argument is still dumb. TF2 is all about adapting to gameplay changes and forming new strategies to work with new changes. Eliminating anything new in favor of keeping the old strategies and playing the exact same way you always have been goes against what TF2 is all about. It's not fun or interesting at all. It's just like a bunch of old people whining that their generation of music was the best while all the new kids mixing it up and trying new things are "bad".
Seems to me that it all boils down to this line of thought: "Everything in the game has to be exactly the same and completely expected! The other team doing something different or making new strategies upsets the balance because I didn't expect it! I'm supposed to know exactly what they're doing so that my long hours of honing my [I]skills[/I] don't go to waste!" And you know what? That's just a bunch of crying.
Team Fortress 2 is a game that changes its rules all the time. That's all fine and cute that you "serious" competitive dudes want to keep playing it like it was on day one since you're too afraid to learn to do something other than play the same exact class you have been for the past three years, but quit outwardly bitching about changes made to the game and calling them "unbalanced". It's causing Valve to nerf things that don't need to be nerfed and tailor the game to your, as Perfumly lovingly calls it, [B]sissy[/B] way of playing. That ruins it for everyone else. You know, the people who actually play the [I]game[/I] to have [I]fun[/I].[/QUOTE]
Again, more people who have the viewpoint that competitive play is about winning and no fun whatsoever.
People play competitive because it's fun. Teamwork is fun. All your points are moot because the leagues decides these bans because the game makes them less fun. Wow! And I thought they never did have any fun! Boy I should know about things before talking about them!
As for the weapons themselves, natascha is banned because it freezes you at any range. You couldn't flank a competent heavy and get out alive, so in return the only way to stop the heavy was to wait for the attacking team to build uber which takes a long time and makes the game slower.
Keep in mind these situations wouldn't be 1 heavy vs 1 other player, the heavy would usually have his team support if he was defending.
Wrangler is banned because it made the last point in 5CP maps ever so harder to attack, and easier to turtle. It takes 6-7 stickies to bring one down. "Kill the engineer!" Easier said than done, because he can easily hide somewhere else or behind his sentry. The sentry becomes the main focus fire for too long in a push for the last point.
Sandman banned for obvious reasons.
Are there ANY competitive players who choose to play with any class, and weapon?
This reminds me when I entered a SSBB tourney as Jigglypuff.
[QUOTE=supertoaster;23781277]
As for the weapons themselves, natascha is banned because it freezes you at any range. You couldn't flank a competent heavy and get out alive, so in return the only way to stop the heavy was to wait for the attacking team to build uber which takes a long time and makes the game slower.
[/QUOTE]
:colbert:
Next time they should try shooting the heavy.
[QUOTE=JGillo;23781307]Are there ANY competitive players who choose to play with any class, and weapon?
This reminds me when I entered a SSBB tourney as Jigglypuff.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes one of the scout players, and maybe a soldier, will switch off to heavy, sniper, or engineer at last. Rarely pyro.
[QUOTE=Dr.Scrake;23781334]:colbert:
Next time they should try shooting the heavy.[/QUOTE]
The heavy removes your movement and dodging, making it easier to track you which in return makes you die before you kill him. It all comes down to that it isn't [I]fun [/I]to fight against.
[QUOTE=supertoaster;23781277]People play competitive because it's fun. Teamwork is fun. All your points are moot because the leagues decides these bans because the game makes them less fun. Wow! And I thought they never did have any fun! Boy I should know about things before talking about them![/QUOTE]
Yeah because bitching about beginner players, new weapons, new maps, is supposed to be fun.
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