CEVO Bans Natascha and Wrangler - Games

[QUOTE=thisguy123;23783030]Sandman, natascha, random crits, buffbanner, wrangler[/QUOTE] All either banned or not used due to being useless [editline]02:34PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23783058]You're not going on the same forums as I am because every time there's a thread about comp play there are hordes of comp player who come in and act like they're the shit.[/QUOTE] Maybe they post in threads about comp play but they definitely don't start threads asking valve to balance things EDIT: That's what GotFrag is for

[QUOTE=ZuXer;23779352]I hate competetive players. They are all whying about how is this OP and this is UP. And Valve listens to them so they make changes to it, but with that they ruin the weapon. Perfect example: The Sandman. I loved that weapon. Then no uber stopping, and stupid tradeoff, then pepole who are stunned can run around now. It's ruined, thanks to the competetive idiots. I can see that valve gives a "nerf" to the wangler , slowing down its speed, lowering the shield. They are as bad as those smash brother tourney idiots.[/QUOTE] I thought the Sandman was perfect, now it's practically useless.

I'm pretty glad they removed the no double jumping, but for the rest, it's just beyond bad.

[QUOTE=thisguy123;23783030]Ok i can envsage his situation. 6v6 you each have a sandman scout, a nattie heavy a wranger engineer a buffbanner soldier a medic (any combo) a vanilla demoman. seems like a very well balanced and effective team. The nanttie heavy slows down enemies allowing the enginner to pick them off. The scout uses his stun balls to deal with problem targets liek the enemy's heavy/soldier/medic The soldier uses defensive, offensive tactics (denying enemy advancement from their territory.) till he build up his buffbanner. The medic keeps them alive and the demo deals with the enemy engineer while just generally fucking shit up. When both an uber and buffbanner are ready to go the engineer destructs his sentry (if using the FJ) and the whole team goes for one big push. Whatever team is able to reach this game winning situation is obviously better coordinated, better skilled and faster thinking. sometimes the only way to counter something is to become it, then you remove all the enemy's advantages and it boils down to who is shaper. Or just plain old lucky crits. :v:[/QUOTE] no, at this point, the other team is fucked. The engineer could have just moved his sentry to the spire (assuming badlands) when the uber wipes the other team, they cap mid, engie secures spire for team to cap, two scouts rush to last before anything is set up, instant win.

[QUOTE=gbtygfvyg;23783082]I thought the Sandman was perfect, now it's practically useless.[/QUOTE] nah, it was OP I mean come on, stopping ubers?

[QUOTE=Shounic;23783027]Yeah, but at 12v12 there's too much spam and 9v9 is already a clusterfuck.[/QUOTE] Yet the game is balanced to deal with the "spam". And it's not like the demos in 6v6 don't spam stickies or nades everywhere

[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23783104]And it's not like the demos in 6v6 don't spam stickies or nades everywhere[/QUOTE] they don't really

ITT: Facepunchers dont understand that weapons have different effects in different enviroments.

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23783093]nah, it was OP I mean come on, stopping ubers?[/QUOTE] After that was removed, it was perfect. I would be a valuable member of my team even with 95 hp. The scout most like dies in 1 hit anyways so the health loss isn't that much of a problem. It was just people being butthurt they can't dodge a freaking projectile. At the distance where it's undodgable, the stun isn't long enough to be deadly.

[QUOTE=LiLBliNg;23783137]ITT: Facepunchers dont understand that weapons have different effects in different enviroments.[/QUOTE] that's a rather broad statement

The problem with Compet is that it will never improve or change because all the new teams are in the mindset that something worked for 1 team before them therefore it is the only way to go rather than experiment and try something new.

[QUOTE=LiLBliNg;23783137]ITT: Facepunchers dont understand that weapons have different effects in different enviroments.[/QUOTE] The problem is they SHOULDN'T be different environments.

[QUOTE=Disarray;23783154]The problem with Compet is that it will never improve or change because all the new teams are in the mindset that something worked for 1 team before them therefore it is the only way to go rather than experiment and try something new.[/QUOTE] No, that's not really true... at all. Think about it, it wasn't even the players themselves that made this decision.

Sirdangalot, whats so bad about the wrangler? That's what the SPY is for, to counteract that. To backstab the engineer and sap his shit. What about the Natasha, so what if it's annoying. Snipers can take care of that, as well as even MORE spies. And the sandman, its useless now. But so is the backburner, you said so yourself.

[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23783159]The problem is they SHOULDN'T be different environments.[/QUOTE] :confused: [editline]02:41PM[/editline] [QUOTE=minilandstan;23783164]Sirdangalot, whats so bad about the wrangler? That's what the SPY is for, to counteract that. To backstab the engineer and sap his shit. What about the Natasha, so what if it's annoying. Snipers can take care of that, as well as even MORE spies. And the sandman, its useless now. But so is the backburner, you said so yourself.[/QUOTE] Dude, spy in comp play? Not going to happen, and even if it did, he probably wouldn't even be able to kill the wrangling engie. Sniper is also a utility at best, and just because snipers are good at killing heavies doesn't mean Natascha isn't a straight upgrade.

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23783163]No, that's not really true... at all. Think about it, it wasn't even the players themselves that made this decision.[/QUOTE] Yes that is true but the decision is based heavily on what the top tier players think and this filters down and so you get the same mindset throughout the majority of the scene and means it can stagnate.

[QUOTE=minilandstan;23783164]Sirdangalot, whats so bad about the wrangler? That's what the SPY is for, to counteract that. To backstab the engineer and sap his shit. What about the Natasha, so what if it's annoying. Snipers can take care of that, as well as even MORE spies. And the sandman, its useless now. But so is the backburner, you said so yourself.[/QUOTE] it's not 1v6. it's 6v6. team mates are another variable you missed out on.

Also let's have a fictional situation here. Let's say the medic has a health kit instead of the medigun and always had. Every other class is the same as it is right now. Update comes, they add the Medigun. It is nicely balanced as it is how we know the game right now but it adds an aspect of ubercharge nobody knows. It's simple : After healing for a while, you're invulnerable to damage for a couple of seconds. You cannot capture points but you can easily blow up sentry nests. 2 weeks later, the competitive community bans the Medigun because ubercharges are OP. I could totally see that happen.

[QUOTE=Disarray;23783198]Yes that is true but the decision is based heavily on what the top tier players think and this filters down and so you get the same mindset throughout the majority of the scene and means it can stagnate.[/QUOTE] But Natascha has been in use for like, a year and a half now. If anything this is changing things up, because pretty much everyone always used Natascha. [editline]02:43PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23783217]Also let's have a fictional situation here. Let's say the medic has a health kit instead of the medigun and always had. Every other class is the same as it is right now. Update comes, they add the Medigun. It is nicely balanced as it is how we know the game right now but it adds an aspect of ubercharge nobody knows. It's simple : After healing for a while, you're invulnerable to damage for a couple of seconds. You cannot capture points but you can easily blow up sentry nests. 2 weeks later, the competitive community bans the Medigun because ubercharges are OP. I could totally see that happen.[/QUOTE] TF2 would be almost unplayable without ubercharges

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23783226]But Natascha has been in use for like, a year and a half now. If anything this is changing things up, because pretty much everyone always used Natascha. [editline]02:43PM[/editline] TF2 would be almost unplayable without ubercharges[/QUOTE] Everyone using natascha in the past. Are you being serious?

[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23783217]Also let's have a fictional situation here. Let's say the medic has a health kit instead of the medigun and always had. Every other class is the same as it is right now. Update comes, they add the Medigun. It is nicely balanced as it is how we know the game right now but it adds an aspect of ubercharge nobody knows. It's simple : After healing for a while, you're invulnerable to damage for a couple of seconds. You cannot capture points but you can easily blow up sentry nests. 2 weeks later, the competitive community bans the Medigun because ubercharges are OP. I could totally see that happen.[/QUOTE] no, because the ubercharge can be countered by ANYTHING. The point of them was to make pushes effectively. You can simply tell the whole team to run away from the uber. Thus, getting them zero kills, pretty much meaning wasted uber.

[QUOTE=Dr.Scrake;23783260]Everyone using natascha in the past. Are you being serious?[/QUOTE] Everyone in comp play used/uses Natascha. Now they can't, so I guess that's a change. It's definitely not stagnating.

Does anyone even care about the competitive TF2 community anyway?

Im just gonna watch from now on. [img_thumb]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/scarjo_popcorn.gif[/img_thumb]

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23783168]:confused:[/QUOTE] Let's take CS:S. A competitive match is just a nicely organized REGULAR match. You don't see them banning flashbangs or smoke grenades, they just play the game normally with a more tactical aspect. In TF2, you remove half the players, force them to use a certain class loadout and remove certain weapons and gameplay elements.

[QUOTE=-Chief-;23783292]Does anyone even care about the competitive TF2 community anyway?[/QUOTE] That's what I'm wondering. I for one am a fan and feel obligated to defend it, but I don't see why anyone would want to attack CEVO for this unless they planned on playing.

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23783282]Everyone in comp play used/uses Natascha. Now they can't, so I guess that's a change. It's definitely not stagnating.[/QUOTE] some comp players already commented that the natasha is too easy to use, and it doesn't require any practice at all. And typically, some teams might run sasha and natasha, but for the most part they all have been using it simply because of it's ease to deal with ANYTHING.

[QUOTE=Batmoutarde;23783314]Let's take CS:S. A competitive match is just a nicely organized REGULAR match. You don't see them banning flashbangs or smoke grenades, they just play the game normally with a more tactical aspect. In TF2, you remove half the players, force them to use a certain class loadout and remove certain weapons and gameplay elements.[/QUOTE] But in CS:S, new weapons aren't introduced every few months.

[QUOTE=Shounic;23783268]no, because the ubercharge can be countered by ANYTHING. The point of them was to make pushes effectively. You can simply tell the whole team to run away from the uber. Thus, getting them zero kills, pretty much meaning wasted uber.[/QUOTE] And a wrangled sentry or a Natascha heavy can't ? Are you kidding me.

[QUOTE=Sirdangolot5;23783282]Everyone in comp play used/uses Natascha. Now they can't, so I guess that's a change. It's definitely not stagnating.[/QUOTE] If anyone even used heavy which was rather rarely.