Black Mesa V6 - 'Not sure about the shotgun'-edition - Games

Is Black Mesa worth picking up with the current discount for someone who played the mod and not interested in MP? What's the difference between those two?

[QUOTE=Spor;49718875]Is Black Mesa worth picking up with the current discount for someone who played the mod and not interested in MP? What's the difference between those two?[/QUOTE] I think there is a list of changes, but I can't find it (assuming I'm not hallucinating it's existence). There are lots of things changes, from the AI of the soldiers, to texture and model updates throughout the game, to sounds. Textfamguy and the team are also updating Surface Tension to include portions from "surface tension uncut" (unsure if they're doing OaR update too). Also, once Xen is out the free mod version won't be getting it due to the new engine used so that's always something to look forward to. I think it's definitely worth buying, especially at 10 bucks, that's a bargain for the quality of game it is.

[QUOTE=Solatoral;49718925]I think there is a list of changes, but I can't find it (assuming I'm not hallucinating it's existence). There are lots of things changes, from the AI of the soldiers, to texture and model updates throughout the game, to sounds. Textfamguy and the team are also updating Surface Tension to include portions from "surface tension uncut" (unsure if they're doing OaR update too). Also, once Xen is out the free mod version won't be getting it due to the new engine used so that's always something to look forward to. I think it's definitely worth buying, especially at 10 bucks, that's a bargain for the quality of game it is.[/QUOTE] I was planning on buying it, but after it's released. But that does sound like some interesting changes to check out and follow the development. I'll consider it, thanks for the post.

[QUOTE=Spor;49718875]Is Black Mesa worth picking up with the current discount for someone who played the mod and not interested in MP? What's the difference between those two?[/QUOTE] I would suggest [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/app/362890/discussions/0/458606877329949428/"]reading this post.[/URL] That list of things the retail version has over the mod version is pretty big already (and very, very far from exhaustive - for instance, I completely overhauled the entire game balance and retooled many of the game's major combat encounters, we made tonnes of bugfixes and gameplay refinements, etc), and will continue to grow and grow.

There's a new bug in SP where a drowning bubbling sound is played everytime gordon touches a volume of water need confirm?

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49731222]There's a new bug in SP where a drowning bubbling sound is played everytime gordon touches a volume of water need confirm?[/QUOTE] Yeah, I've been getting that, it's really annoying.

also the whole underwater system needs a small rehaul. the oxygen is instantly set back to 100 the very second you're out of the water, it should be gradual. and 2 damage per tick is way too insignificant once you run out. should be 10-15 a tick. Also alien grunts are terribly unbalanced right now. I don't know in what universe 15 damage per hornet (with volleys of ~6 [b]homing[/b] projectiles per shot,) is anywhere balanced. Looks like they use player hornet values to me. And is there any reason crossbow bolts trigger hgrunts to take cover like grenades? It just stun-locks them into a state of retreat as long as you keep shooting, aswell as making it super annoying to aim. Realism-wise they shouldn't even see it coming.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49733497]also the whole underwater system needs a small rehaul. the oxygen is instantly set back to 100 the very second you're out of the water, it should be gradual. and 2 damage per tick is way too insignificant once you run out. should be 10-15 a tick. Also alien grunts are terribly unbalanced right now. I don't know in what universe 15 damage per hornet (with volleys of ~6 [b]homing[/b] projectiles per shot,) is anywhere balanced. Looks like they use player hornet values to me.[/QUOTE] Agreed on both counts. The water needs to feel like a "challenge" or an actual obstacle, not "I'll find the lost city of atlantas and drag it to the surface with me" levels of air supply/drowning damage. I'm glad someone else is having problems with the A-grunts. There is a place near Lambda core (before you reach the bit with the reactors) where Vorts spawn along with a few Grunts on the far end of the room. I eventually just had to godmode it because it was nearly impossible to finish the encounter. Now I need to jump into the open reactor at the end of Lambda but the large room itself is impossible to clear. I don't know who thought it was a good idea to make them this strong but it's really not fun. I like a little challenge but this is just annoying.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49733497]also the whole underwater system needs a small rehaul. the oxygen is instantly set back to 100 the very second you're out of the water, it should be gradual. and 2 damage per tick is way too insignificant once you run out. should be 10-15 a tick. Also alien grunts are terribly unbalanced right now. I don't know in what universe 15 damage per hornet (with volleys of ~6 [b]homing[/b] projectiles per shot,) is anywhere balanced. Looks like they use player hornet values to me. And is there any reason crossbow bolts trigger hgrunts to take cover like grenades? It just stun-locks them into a state of retreat as long as you keep shooting, aswell as making it super annoying to aim. Realism-wise they shouldn't even see it coming.[/QUOTE] What do you think about H.E.C.U dudes? I'm having trouble with them at the ambush section, after you rescue 3 scientists from the death machine thing. I'd honestly wish the "recocking" of the crossbow was part of the firing animation like it was in HL1, rather than it's own, separated animation. Using it while moving around is impossible, unless you stand still which gets you swissed.

hgrunts are alot more fair and fun than they were in the mod, that's for sure. The only thing I don't like is the aimpunch when they hit you. That could be decreased a bit. Since they shoot more / hit more than combine soldiers, you're more likely to have your screen shake around like crazy and that's fairly annoying. But it's not a major issue

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49739370]hgrunts are alot more fair and fun than they were in the mod, that's for sure. The only thing I don't like is the aimpunch when they hit you. That could be decreased a bit. Since they shoot more / hit more than combine soldiers, you're more likely to have your screen shake around like crazy and that's fairly annoying. But it's not a major issue[/QUOTE] It does force you to play Black Mesa more as a cover shooter, however. In my opinion, part of the Half-Life formula is that it relies a lot more on fast and Quake-like movement than what I'm experiencing in Black Mesa. I hope it's one of the things that they will take a second look at.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49733497]also the whole underwater system needs a small rehaul. the oxygen is instantly set back to 100 the very second you're out of the water, it should be gradual. and 2 damage per tick is way too insignificant once you run out. should be 10-15 a tick. Also alien grunts are terribly unbalanced right now. I don't know in what universe 15 damage per hornet (with volleys of ~6 [b]homing[/b] projectiles per shot,) is anywhere balanced. Looks like they use player hornet values to me. And is there any reason crossbow bolts trigger hgrunts to take cover like grenades? It just stun-locks them into a state of retreat as long as you keep shooting, aswell as making it super annoying to aim. Realism-wise they shouldn't even see it coming.[/QUOTE] If it bothers you enough, you could always just change it in the .cfg files. Default player settings: [code] //=-------------------------------------------------- // PLAYER - Gameplay //=-------------------------------------------------- //sk_jump_height "45" //sk_jump_height_crouch "45" //sk_jump_height_double "45" //sk_airboost_height "21" //sk_longjump_height "44" //bms_airboost_jump_forward_speed "360" //bms_airboost_jump_original_speed_mod "0.25" //bms_long_jump_horizontal_speed "460" //bms_long_jump_delay "1" player_airtimer "15" player_drown_dmg_intial "5" player_drown_dmg_step "2" //player_throwforce "1500" [/code] Default Hivehand settings (is shared with player's hivehand) [code] // HIVEHAND sk_detenator_hornet_fuse_time "5" sk_weapon_hivehand_plr_regen_attack_delay "0.5" sk_weapon_hivehand_plr_regen_tick "0.2" sk_weapon_hivehand_plr_secondary_radius "0.025" sk_weapon_hivehand_plr_secondary_phase "8" sk_detenator_hornet_health "1" sk_detenator_hornet_track_max_distance "512" sk_detenator_hornet_track_acceleration "600" sk_detenator_hornet_max_speed "800" sk_detenator_hornet_intial_speed "200" sk_detenator_hornet_drunk_degrees "3" sk_detenator_hornet_drunk_frequency "0.2" sk_detenator_hornet_plr_dmg "10" sk_detenator_hornet_plr_dmg_radius "30" sk_detenator_hornet_npc_dmg "12" sk_detenator_hornet_npc_dmg_radius "25" sk_detenator_hornet_autoaim_scale "10" sk_detenator_hornet_track_drag "0.25" sk_detenator_hornet_track_lock_dot "0.4" sk_detenator_hornet_track_lock_distance "96" [/code] Just duplicate skill.cfg from Steam\SteamApps\common\Black Mesa\bms\cfg, edit the appropriate values, and then just put it in a folder containing config. After that, just turn it into a vpk and paste in your custom folder. You will need to have your custom folder set up to have priority over game / workshop files, but that's been mentioned before. Hell, if you set it up right, you can even edit weapon scripts and other such nonsense, which together have basically any parameters you need.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49733497]also the whole underwater system needs a small rehaul. the oxygen is instantly set back to 100 the very second you're out of the water, it should be gradual. and 2 damage per tick is way too insignificant once you run out. should be 10-15 a tick. Also alien grunts are terribly unbalanced right now. I don't know in what universe 15 damage per hornet (with volleys of ~6 [b]homing[/b] projectiles per shot,) is anywhere balanced. Looks like they use player hornet values to me. And is there any reason crossbow bolts trigger hgrunts to take cover like grenades? It just stun-locks them into a state of retreat as long as you keep shooting, aswell as making it super annoying to aim. Realism-wise they shouldn't even see it coming.[/QUOTE] I'll confirm this when I get home today, but I'm pretty sure the Alien Grunts are meant to do about half that damage. If they are indeed doing 15 damage, then yes, it is a bug. What difficulty are you playing on? Regarding the HGrunt cover thing, this might be a residual bug because the Crossbow bolts are explosive in MP, they're somehow treating them as explosive in SP. Or because the bolt is viewed in code as a projectile grenade. We'll look into this, we've got a few changes coming to AI for CU3 update.

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;49745271]I'll confirm this when I get home today, but I'm pretty sure the Alien Grunts are meant to do about half that damage. If they are indeed doing 15 damage, then yes, it is a bug. What difficulty are you playing on? Regarding the HGrunt cover thing, this might be a residual bug because the Crossbow bolts are explosive in MP, they're somehow treating them as explosive in SP. Or because the bolt is viewed in code as a projectile grenade. We'll look into this, we've got a few changes coming to AI for CU3 update.[/QUOTE] normal. Thanks

[video=youtube;bWHn2HScfhw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWHn2HScfhw[/video] Bunches of peaceful aliens til' provoked. Also a little showcase of how ridiculous those agrunts are at destroying you.

On the topic of Alien Grunts, what ever happened to that custom model that one guy was making of a more classic Agrunt?

[QUOTE=optimussentinel;49747092]On the topic of Alien Grunts, what ever happened to that custom model that one guy was making of a more classic Agrunt?[/QUOTE] i'm almost done w the low-poly last i worked on it (~1 week ago). then i'll texture it and find someone to rig it and animate it hah sadly i can't put all my focus on the agrunt because i got my own game to work on and ~4 simultaneous freelancing jobs to take care of. that plus college, a relationship and i DM for a D&D party. whew!

Jesus, that Agrunt damage is insane. They killed you in like 5 seconds. Don't those hornets home in too?

[QUOTE=Ghost101;49749660]Jesus, that Agrunt damage is insane. They killed you in like 5 seconds. Don't those hornets home in too?[/QUOTE] They were extremely deadly in Half Life, too. Medium difficulty felt like Hard compared to Half Life 2. The problem is that in Half Life, you don't have to be as precise. In BM, you have to aim at them more carefully, and fight the insane kickback when getting hit. edit: I just now realized that you weren't talking about hgrunts.

hl1 agrunts get stunned after a big chunk of damage though. and no their hornets are nowhere as deadly, both in damage and homing-ness

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49752101]hl1 agrunts get stunned after a big chunk of damage though. and no their hornets are nowhere as deadly, both in damage and homing-ness[/QUOTE] HL1 Agrunts sucked ass. Literal stationary target practice like everything else there.

BM zombies are also really really annoying. Their attack animation is extremely fast, they have twice the range of the crowbar AND you can't actually backpedal or strafe to dodge their hit because of BM's weird movement system. At this point, w+m1'ing is the safest way to deal with them as you will only get hit once rather than a few times trying to maneuver around. (I'm talking about the first levels where you have no firearms) Also note that I'm in no way having "trouble" to deal with whatever I complain about. It's simply a matter of being able to kill monsters with taking the least possible damage (or none). In valve's games it's very possible to never get hit at all if you know how stuff works and act fast. In BM even if you know what you're up against, you're still taking unnecessary damage. Just trying to help shape a better experience for everyone, be it the newbie or the veteran.

Yeah, I feel like the range of the zombies is actually a little beyond what their arm models show. You can't dodge out of it.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;49755725]In valve's games it's very possible to never get hit at all if you know how stuff works and act fast.[/QUOTE] Against the Alien enemies, sure, they don't really work on the same values as Doom's projectile dodging, but they can be avoided with the right timing besides maybe the unpredictable and obnoxious hornets. The Human Grunts, the numerous Combine Metrocops and Soldiers in Half-Life 2, and so forth are a whole different story, though. You're almost assured to take damage against hitscan unless they're the wildly inaccurate Metrocops, and even then in close-quarters they'll still get lots of hits. Plus hitscan enemies in both HL1 and HL2 have a nasty tendency to instantly start shooting the moment you're visible. At that point it's preventing damage rather than avoiding.

I still don't understand why the movement system was fucked so hard. Dodging Bullsquid spit while strafing is very hard, because you move so slow if you do so. What was so wrong about going fast in all directions?

Is there a reason why "Always run" in retail is just the game holding the sprint button down for you, unlike the mod version?

[QUOTE=ThePro1234;49758467]Is there a reason why "Always run" in retail is just the game holding the sprint button down for you, unlike the mod version?[/QUOTE] A bug!

[QUOTE=TextFAMGUY1;49758494]A bug![/QUOTE] Also, the sprint sound and weapon anims play. I get that that's expected, but AAAAAAAH it drives me insane! I understand you hate making HL1-like behavior, but PLEASE make this a command or something.

[QUOTE=chipsnapper2;49761195]Also, the sprint sound and weapon anims play. I get that that's expected, but AAAAAAAH it drives me insane! I understand you hate making HL1-like behavior, but PLEASE make this a command or something.[/QUOTE] No, it's nothing to do with "hating to make HL1-like behaviour", I'm not even sure where you got that idea! It's a bug, as I said above. It's meant to behave just like HL1 but currently doesn't.

[QUOTE=chipsnapper2;49761195] I understand you hate making HL1-like behavior[/QUOTE] that's just silly to say when they've carefully replicated guns to act like their HL1 counterpart on a 1:1 scale for the retail version