TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station: Whiteboard Blues - Games

having casual be 6v6 only might be an okay option if we get old Valve pubs back 12v12 is really hard to run on a matchmaking system and try to have a balanced match too, moving it to normal servers might be okay I already need to go through 5-6 games of 6v6, 5v5 and all that before I find a full somewhat balanced match on the other hand though, those 6v6 matches I played are the most boring experience I ever got in TF2, sure, it might be fun in competitive, where you got people around your skill level who try to communicate and do some teamwork, but in casual it's just terrible in TF2's case, especially when most maps are balanced around 12v12 and not 6v6, unless the casual system you suggest will only run the same maps as competitive I don't want a 6v6 casual, because it's just not casual, maybe as a start it could be lowered to 10v10 to make it a bit easier on the GC, but other than that, I don't see it working without huge trade offs

6v6 is a fucking terrible format for pubs, since it requires legitimate teamwork, planning, and communication.

[QUOTE=Zadrave;52747463]Even when watching games though I'd rather watch highlander than 6s because there's a lot more interesting plays that happen. Again, just my opinion. I don't care about viability. I feel like I'm watching a looping record when watching 6s, nothing of note happening, even the big plays feel like I've seen them already many times before.[/QUOTE] Highlander player here. What part of watching 18 players, 6 of whom actually matter (Demo/Sniper/Medic of each team, sometimes the defending Engie if we're being generous) continually drip-feed into each other (just enough for people to die, but not enough to be a pushable advantage for either side) is entertaining to you? 6s can have some of its own stalemates, but Highlander takes it to a whole other fucking level in any match where it's not a total stomp. I've had games of Swiftwater last a small eternity to reach completion. I enjoy Highlander purely as a vessel for fulltime Spy. Everything else about the format is slower to a horrific degree and, contrary to popular belief, only serves to marginalize other classes more. Forcing everyone to be played fulltime pretends they're equally viable, but Sniper/Demo/Medic dominating the format to the extent that they do pretty strongly proves that they're not. Pushes are only guaranteed in Highlander when either 4 players on the enemy team or down or all three of those classes I just mentioned are dead.

what if casual was lowered from 12v12 to 9v9?

I was thinking about this. Have 3 ways to play TF2: Quick play: 12v12, random gunplay mechanics on, auto-balance, old fashioned TF2. Casual: Unranked 6v6 Competitive: Ranked 6v6 This would be good IMO, since you still have the old fashioned dick around and carry TF2, along with more teamwork oriented versions which are Casual and Competitive. Casual could be the go-to warmup for Competitive, where you can test out new things and gain more experience with the game. Then you can play Competitive, for when you want to be well... Competitive! If you just wanna have fun in a pub, Quick Play is there for you. You have all of your classic TF2 mechanics, such as random crits, auto balance, and 12v12 gameplay.

I still hope, and believe there's a possibility for a release on the 10th, so I want to discuss the possibilities of what's happening, I'm not saying any of this is the most likely to happen, but everything is possible 1- Halloween is straight out skipped, we get a huge update right before Halloween, and all what happens is you get the ability to play on Halloween maps when it's time, with Halloween mode activated. 2- we get an even lighter Halloween update, maybe just 1 new map with either no or just a few new Halloween items 3- normal sized Halloween update, new maps and items, with Halloween contracts embedded within the new campaign and using the new campaign system as I previously discussed [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1577839&p=52679465&viewfull=1#post52679465"]here[/URL] 4- nothing before Halloween, and the update we've been waiting for over a year (I've been waiting for a new campaign since tough break) is delayed further more, most likely till smissmas however, let's not forget that our update isn't the only thing being delayed at Valve, they were scheduled to do the move in July, which probably caused multiple other things to be delayed a new Steam overhaul was supposed to be released in the summer, instead nothing happened, with multiple Steam bugs taking ages to fix during the summer CSGO was supposed to get a new UI, we haven't seen any of that, and only recently the Chinese version went live and now Valve has finally moved, it's not clear whether they're fully set up or not, but that shouldn't affect releasing an update any more it is true that Valve doesn't care about any anniversaries, but it's not about that, a huge 10 year anniversary update would grab a ton more attention from gaming media, youtubers and new players, and it's bound to get back people who quit the game, at least for a quick game or two. it's a special case considering it's the 10 year anniversary of a game with a solid player base, a really considerable amount of attention would be lost if the update isn't released or announced by the 10th.

There's more than enough Halloween Community Content in the Workshop for an Update. At least cosmetics and maps, not sure about Weapon skins. So if the TF Team can't produce a Halloween Update, fine. I really don't care about "seasonal" Updates. Give me content and balance when its ready, use the community for seasonals.

[QUOTE=Nebrassy;52747704]I still hope, and believe there's a possibility for a release on the 10th, so I want to discuss the possibilities of what's happening, I'm not saying any of this is the most likely to happen, but everything is possible 1- Halloween is straight out skipped, we get a huge update right before Halloween, and all what happens is you get the ability to play on Halloween maps when it's time, with Halloween mode activated. 2- we get an even lighter Halloween update, maybe just 1 new map with either no or just a few new Halloween items 3- normal sized Halloween update, new maps and items, with Halloween contracts embedded within the new campaign and using the new campaign system as I previously discussed [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1577839&p=52679465&viewfull=1#post52679465"]here[/URL] [/QUOTE] I actually would not mind an update with only one community Halloween map, provided it was a good pick. Outside of the first "all-community-content based" update having the "2-4 new maps" gimmick, I feel that having other Halloween updates also add 2-4 maps is a bit overkill.

[QUOTE=BlindSniper17;52747853]I actually would not mind an update with only one community Halloween map, provided it was a good pick. Outside of the first "all-community-content based" update having the "2-4 new maps" gimmick, I feel that having other Halloween updates also add 2-4 maps is a bit overkill.[/QUOTE] I'd be okay with this if it meant getting more cosmetics instead, but we know that'll never happen as long as they're still forcing the fucking tiered cosmetic cases instead.

Can we bring back the haunted quality please, or did that die with halloween restrictions and spells too?

[QUOTE=Zadrave;52747463]Even when watching games though I'd rather watch highlander than 6s because there's a lot more interesting plays that happen. Again, just my opinion. I don't care about viability. I feel like I'm watching a looping record when watching 6s, nothing of note happening, even the big plays feel like I've seen them already many times before.[/QUOTE] I actually found the prolander 7v7 final from a few months ago to be more enjoyable than a lot of i61. It felt more like TF2 since you saw more of the classes compared to 6s and playing on payload meant the attacking team constantly had to be attacking because of the ticking clock, unlike 5CP which has almost unlimited time and the attacking teams can just decide to stalemate if they're in the lead.

One of the main reasons why Highlander is seen as slow is the metagame as it is and the maps. Yes it has slow classes like engineer and heavy, but it also has been made that way due to strategy. The sniper dominates all at even regular levels, leaving you to piddle around waiting for a distraction or pick out of fear of insta-death, and combine that with as my friend legendary mentioned the map pool, which consists of a lot of slow maps and payloads leads to an inherently slower game. Rebalances and item tweaks/pick-bans would change that.

I wonder how the meta would change if the sniper wasnt allowed in highlander and 6v6.How would the meta be shaped?

[QUOTE=Big Snake Bos;52748569]I wonder how the meta would change if the sniper wasnt allowed in highlander and 6v6.How would the meta be shaped?[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be called highlander anymore if you weren't able to play sniper, now would it be? Sniper doesn't really affect 6's that much. Since all the classes are very mobile the sniper is easier to catch out. I guess people would switch off to spy instead if they wanted a crucial pick?

Weather-forecast for next week: Shit will go down. Exhibit A: [B]The medals[/B] [MEDIA]https://twitter.com/TipoftheHats/status/914580686627106816[/MEDIA] While unsure if this is just the TOTH Team being optimistic that the medals will be added in an acceptable timeframe(being this week/early next week) or them receiving background information from valve(which other event organizers in this thread can confirm, they have done before.), it gives me the assumption that they want to release the medals with the big update itself, and not in a small patch - which may lead to next week, which also lines up with Exhibit B. I'm having this assumption because they normally wouldve done a shitty medal update before - as always, why delay a medal update this badly? Exhibit B: [B]The 10th Anniversary of TF2[/B] Even though it's controversial on this forum if the TF Team values this date at all, it certainly isnt anywhere else. From gaming journalists, to reddit, to the depths SPUF - all are expecting something on that date. Some might compare this to 9/6, however this isnt a bearded man telling you stuff from a whiteboard, this is a widely known "birthday". Even though they initially didnt plan anything for the 10th Anniversary, we know the Update is/was in it's final stages for 3-2 months now (As seen by the "get your workhop shit ready blog post) - and I see no other reason why to "delay" it other than the Anniversary. It would be romantic atleast - a big Update on a birthday. Exhibit C: The [B]Halloween pre-announcement Blog Post[/B] Yeah, that one exists, too. Last year, it was dropped on the second week of October, on the 11.10. Next week we'll reach that week again. So Unless they wanna do that blog post even later, we'll get it next week. BONUS: The move is done. Dota 2 has received an Update adding some Halloween stuff, it's very safe to assume that the Teams are back working. So, doesnt matter if you believe in 10/10 or not - or if you think TOTH medals are just a fluke, there will be activity next week.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52748640]Weather-forecast for next week: Shit will go down. snip[/QUOTE] Well they ARE REALLY releasing the medals, so I guess with that TFTeam will be FORCED to type something more than just "Added Toth medals" in the update notes.

[QUOTE=Shenesis;52748679]Do people really think 6's is more fun than Highlander? On HL you have all classes playing at once so it's (imo) more interesting than having two of the same class on 6's. Then again I may be a little biased since I only play Pyro. :v:[/QUOTE] "do people really think 6's is more fun than highlader" Yes we do, highlander is slow, easy and boring. 6's is alot more competitive, face paced skill-race.

[QUOTE=Shenesis;52748679]Do people really think 6's is more fun than Highlander? On HL you have all classes playing at once so it's (imo) more interesting than having two of the same class on 6's. Then again I may be a little biased since I only play Pyro. :v:[/QUOTE] A lot that argue for rather than against 6s is due to the high level of play required. You gotta be quick-minded, pinpoint in accuracy and prediction aim, you need to know the ins and outs of maps, health and ammo spots, areas to rocket jump to roll out quicker. It's one of the main reasons why I really don't see how a casual 6s is a great idea, yes it'd be a good training ground but let us be honest here. 1 - 2 of your members in a 6s casual team would be dead-weight. And that can spell defeat almost the instant you load in and ultimately make for a god awful experience of what 6s is. I'm only for highlander just due to the 9 v 9 being one of every class, there's no off-classing and generally wants you to learn every class and not just generalists or special picks for when your last cap is being taken. It's not that I hate 6s, I've played in a 6s team before and it's intense the entire time. But teaching new players to go soldier or scout because 'they're the best' even when there's 5 of them already seems like a wrong move.

[QUOTE=Shenesis;52748699]I guess 6's do make for a more fast-paced game, but I don't think it'll go well with casual players. :s:[/QUOTE] That's why 6's is for experienced players and Highlander is favored for Casual players :P It's like choosing between Hard Mode and Casual Mode.

[QUOTE=Fluury;52748640]Weather-forecast for next week: Shit will go down. [/QUOTE] I'm calling it now: Team Fortress 2 Update Released October 10th, 2017 - TF2 Team An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include: Added the Tip of the Hats 2017 medals Enabled Party Mode -Updated the Beach Ball Texture to say Happy Birthday instead of Happy 15th Birthday -Anyone who logs in on October 10th will receive the 10th Anniversary Hat, a re-skinned Party Hat with the number 10 on it. Added a new badge "The Late Loser" -Anyone who first plays TF2 after October 10th 2017 will no longer get the Mercenary Badge but instead get the Late Loser Badge Updated the localization files

I wish they could fix the beach ball so it doesn't disappear every few seconds.

The only thing I care about right now is the way we join games. They made it so you can't group up more than 6 at a time, and you can't join friends that are already playing either. You HAVE to go through matchmaking, which makes it impossible to join friends. I mean that's probably an obvious complaint, but that has completely ruined TF2 for me. The game forces me to play solo and that just isn't fun, especially when it used to be the complete opposite. And if they want to keep it that way I guess that's their right, but at least give us the ability to group up with more than 6 people. This is even more infuriating when you know the reason behind this limitation is because they just reused MvM code and didn't bother to do anything else. So yeah. Before any update hits, I'd like this to be fixed, because they could bring Terry Crews into their game and I likely won't play it anyway if I have to do it alone.

[QUOTE=SLBros.;52748779]The only thing I care about right now is the way we join games. They made it so you can't group up more than 6 at a time, and you can't join friends that are already playing either. You HAVE to go through matchmaking, which makes it impossible to join friends. I mean that's probably an obvious complaint, but that has completely ruined TF2 for me. The game forces me to play solo and that just isn't fun, especially when it used to be the complete opposite. And if they want to keep it that way I guess that's their right, but at least give us the ability to group up with more than 6 people. This is even more infuriating when you know the reason behind this limitation is because they just reused MvM code and didn't bother to do anything else. So yeah. Before any update hits, I'd like this to be fixed, because they could bring Terry Crews into their game and I likely won't play it anyway if I have to do it alone.[/QUOTE] Quit the game, invite friends, re-queue ????????? I don't understand lol, if you want to play with friends just invite them to your lobby. I fucking hated the fact that anyone in my friendlist could join the games I played.

[QUOTE=SLBros.;52748779]The only thing I care about right now is the way we join games. They made it so you can't group up more than 6 at a time, and you can't join friends that are already playing either. You HAVE to go through matchmaking, which makes it impossible to join friends. I mean that's probably an obvious complaint, but that has completely ruined TF2 for me. The game forces me to play solo and that just isn't fun, especially when it used to be the complete opposite. And if they want to keep it that way I guess that's their right, but at least give us the ability to group up with more than 6 people. This is even more infuriating when you know the reason behind this limitation is because they just reused MvM code and didn't bother to do anything else. So yeah. Before any update hits, I'd like this to be fixed, because they could bring Terry Crews into their game and I likely won't play it anyway if I have to do it alone.[/QUOTE] I do hope we see the ability to party up with people already in a casual game in the Pyro/Jungle update. I don't think we'll ever see the ability to have more than 6 people in a party with the hacker/bot problems the game have since if you have more than 6 people in a party it becomes impossible regular players to vote against the party and win.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52748734]I'm calling it now: Team Fortress 2 Update Released October 10th, 2017 - TF2 Team An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include: Added the Tip of the Hats 2017 medals Enabled Party Mode -Updated the Beach Ball Texture to say Happy Birthday instead of Happy 15th Birthday -Anyone who logs in on October 10th will receive the 10th Anniversary Hat, a re-skinned Party Hat with the number 10 on it. Added a new badge "The Late Loser" -Anyone who first plays TF2 after October 10th 2017 will no longer get the Mercenary Badge but instead get the Late Loser Badge Updated the localization files[/QUOTE] -Anyone who first played on Oct. 10 2007 or before then, will get a new medal that's just a #10 on your classes shoulder. Anyway, what we're up to...

That's exactly what I'm against. Having to leave the game and recreate a lobby every time someone wants to play with you is a fucking chore, and not something you should be doing in a videogame in 2017. I guess I get the "I don't want anybody to join me" argument and it's true that they never adressed this either.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;52748790]I do hope we see the ability to party up with people already in a casual game in the Pyro/Jungle update. I don't think we'll ever see the ability to have more than 6 people in a party with the hacker/bot problems the game have since if you have more than 6 people in a party it becomes impossible regular players to vote against the party and win.[/QUOTE] The only way I can see that they could make it work is : 1.When you want to join your friends game you have to send a Join Request to him that he can ACCEPT or DENY. 2.The person HAS to be in your friendlist to request join your games. 3.First 5 people (6 including you) in your friendlist in-game are going to be in the same team, If you invite more friends they are going to be put in the opposite team.

[QUOTE=qubestf2;52748799]The only way I can see that they could make it work is : 1.When you want to join your friends game you have to send a Join Request to him that he can ACCEPT or DENY. 2.The person HAS to be in your friendlist to request join your games. 3.First 5 people (6 including you) in your friendlist in-game are going to be in the same team, If you invite more friends they are going to be put in the opposite team.[/QUOTE] Here's what i think would make a good Ad-Hoc system: -Ad-Hoc allowed -"Join Game" button can be removed on your profile if you want it to -Whenever you try to join a friends game/someone tries to join you, you/they will receive a notification kind've like the "blank wants to view your broadcast" one, instead it says "blank wants to join you!". This can be accepted or denied. -New option in the "Privacy" tab in the profile editor: You can choose between Friend only connections or allow anyone to join you

[QUOTE=socks_;52748830]Here's what i think would make a good Ad-Hoc system: -Ad-Hoc allowed -"Join Game" button can be removed on your profile if you want it to -Whenever you try to join a friends game/someone tries to join you, you/they will receive a notification kind've like the "blank wants to view your broadcast" one, instead it says "blank wants to join you!". This can be accepted or denied. -New option in the "Privacy" tab in the profile editor: You can choose between Friend only connections or allow anyone to join you[/QUOTE] TFTeam has no control over Steam Client and they can't really add new/remove new buttons or change anything profile-wise.

[QUOTE=socks_;52748830]Here's what i think would make a good Ad-Hoc system: -Ad-Hoc allowed -"Join Game" button can be removed on your profile if you want it to -Whenever you try to join a friends game/someone tries to join you, you/they will receive a notification kind've like the "blank wants to view your broadcast" one, instead it says "blank wants to join you!". This can be accepted or denied. -New option in the "Privacy" tab in the profile editor: You can choose between Friend only connections or allow anyone to join you[/QUOTE] The problem with the ad-hoc stuff is the fact that most of the quality of life changes tf2 needs are changes that would have to be made to STEAM, not tf2. The only ability the tf2 team has is to enable or disable ad-hoc. They would have to design their own ad-hoc system within tf2 itself, which I doubt they've been working on.