TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station: Whiteboard Blues - Games

[QUOTE=Ace of Butts;52667381]I still think we aren't getting a Scream Fortress at all this year.[/QUOTE] TF2 will either get it's highest concurrent player count or come close to hitting it's highest concurrent player count of the year during Scream Fortress. It isn't going anywhere, even if it's all community maps like the last 2 years. [QUOTE=Ace of Butts;52667561]Maybe they have been porting the game to Source 2 and that's why it's taking so long, perhaps it wasn't originally planned but something made them reconsider it.[/QUOTE] If Valve ports TF2 to Source 2 I can pretty much guarantee you they wouldn't just surprise us and release it, they would almost certainly do a public beta of the Source 2 version (probably for months) before shipping it to the final client.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52667899]Well, the reason [B]Meet Your Match[/B] was underwhelming to me wasn't because of Casual or a rushed competitive mode, but because the balance changes were either lukewarm or downright awful. This was compounded by the fact that there were so few of them, and that a year later they released a blog post with changes that should have been in MYM, but that we still don't have today. As long as they balance this game, which shouldn't consume as much development time as other features, I don't care about what else they do. The fact that they feel obliged to pack these relatively simple fixes into gargantuan patches, ones that contain the aforementioned far more complicated features, is what ultimately piques me the most.[/QUOTE] Disagree strongly. MyM included the removal of QuickPlay, with [I]no replacement mechanic[/I] (besides the shit-tastic server browser) to funnel traffic to community servers. That was a stake through the heart for most of the remaining community servers. These were the ones that had managed to survive the change to QuickPlay in January of 2014 that forced users to opt in to connect to community servers at all. I'm referring to the ones [I]not[/I] named Skial. Servers running 24/7 instant respawn 2Fort, Turbine, Hightower, Harvest and possibly a few other maps manage to stay populated. Some of the time. 2Fort is the most popular map in TF2, but it's also the most over served. That is, there are far more servers running it than there are users looking to play on it. Community servers running less popular maps, even in a 24/7 instant TDM-friendly environment (Landfall, Doublecross, CTF Sawmill) are all but nonexistent. During the summer there was a brief renaissance where the children were out of school and helped populated some community servers and keeping the regulars interested. Now we are back to 24/7 Ghost Town (not Fort.) I see posts on /r/tf2 and elsewhere from well meaning would-be admins, asking about setting up a "vanilla rotation" server in X part of the world. I wish them luck, but I am quite sure that it is next to impossible to keep a community server that has respawn times and objective based gameplay populated for more than a short period of time. Yes, the balance changes from MyM were shit. The fact that these horrible changes haven't been address in 400+ days is mind bogglingly frustrating. Spies spamming the dead ringer and running away at 425 HU/s only to score a headshot with the ambassador moments later is legitimate grounds to uninstall the goddamn game. Being a Natascha heavy and getting wrecked by a half decent scout because even if we're at the same skill level, his meatshots hit way harder than I do and then being told I got "outplayed" makes me was to geolocate the lime wearing sonofabitch, drive to his home and punch him right in the junk. All of this said, I repeat, the balance changes were not the worst effect of MyM. It was the damage the update caused to the TF2 [I]community.[/I] TF2 is a social game, far more than CSGO, Dota2 or PUBG. Even in its broken to shit state state, I enjoy playing the game against randos, but I much prefer playing it against users I know. I prefer all-talk servers, for their good-natured (and NOT so good natured) trash talking between teams. I like community servers that have regulars whose wacky antics I know well: The insane Canadian who fancies himself a human sampler and shouts "Oh no, you suck!" "Shut up, little boy!" "Don't be a tryhard!" in his wacky voice. The spy main who likes to offclass as a BSS/Apo-Fist heavy and goes on far greater killstreaks with that combination then he has any right to. That one demoknight who keeps using the caber with a shield even after both have been nerfed into oblivion. Etc etc. I also enjoy playing against the the players whose tactics I legitimately hate: The black box/banner soldier who has a krtiz medic up his ass and dominates half the enemy team on 2Fort. Getting kills (or medic assists) on him and ending his gabendamn killstreak is, as the kids say, satisfying AF. Casual matchmaking never offers anything like above. It, and the broken official competitive mode are both gifts to cheaters. While community servers are far from perfect in this regard, they do offer considerably more defense against players who cheat, spam and grief in the game. TF2 almost as much a social platform as it is a video game. Lazy Purple's Silly Servers are some of the most enduring in the game, and the goal on them is seldom anything besides "hang around and be an idiot." In spite of what their occupants might imagine, trade servers are only slightly different with the addition of a profit motive. There may be CSGO trade servers, but what I observe on TF2 trades is that players advertise their CSGO (and Dota and most recently, PUBG) items along with their TF2 stock. I saw a guy trade a stack of unusual hats for a fricken PUBG skirt last week. TF2 is unique vs the other games I mentioned that far surpass its popularity in that it allows for all of this silly and not so silly behavior. The game's community is its lifeblood, and MyM did more damage to that core aspect of the game than anything else. If Valve doesn't address the gaping void left behind by the removal of quickplay, it will continue to have massively detrimental effects to the game regardless of what gameplay mechanics they do or do not implement.

[QUOTE=Hell-met;52668579]how2fix sunstick remove the dumb fire resis give it a fire baseball (ignites but no stun) done![/QUOTE] butbutbut wrap assassin

[QUOTE=grif;52668598]So... The Powerjack for Scout, but self-damages while enabling Scout to make the life of other 125 HP classes a living hell? Sounds [i]totally[/i] fun. To be honest I'm not sure we need another weapon to make Scout run [i]faster.[/i][/QUOTE] Keep in mind that the scout is going to take a guaranteed 30 damage, and he'll almost certainly take more. I think you're overblowing the harm a 90 health scout can do. A single pipe would oneshots him, two shotgun hits could easily kill him, even a medic has a decent chance of taking him out.

[QUOTE=SediSocks;52667827]I'd rather they take their time than release something half assed just so there's something. Though I think if they knew the update was gonna take this long then they should have released a small content pack at the start of summer, a few cosmetics and a taunt or two.[/QUOTE] rainy day

MyM made it harder for people who just want to casually hop into a server, and play for a while. Before, getting a server was instantaneous via server browser, or quick play. Now you're forced to sit in a 5 minute queue, for a game that is either, a 4 v 10, or over the moment you enter it. It's not like the casual system even did much to make games more coordinated. Games where people actively communicate are the exception, and most games are still silent rolls that empty the moment the match ends.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;52668652] Before, getting a server was instantaneous via server browser, or quick play. Now you're forced to sit in a [B]5 minute queue,[/B] for . [/QUOTE] I have NEVER had a queue time that long since after the shaky launch of mym. I consistently get into games within a minute. Say what you will about casual mode, queue times are NOT only of it's issues.

I have, plenty of times. I live in NA and play during day hours, while searching maps like Badwater, Dustbowl and 2fort. It's good you're getting faster times, but casual has been nothing but an inconvenience for me.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52668550]Sun on a stick is a fundamentally flawed weapon, because it relies too much on extremely specific circumstances, of your scattergun's clip being empty, your enemy being on fire, and your enemy being a class that you can get into melee range of safely. The design needs to be completely replaced. I was thinking something like The Sun on a Stick +20% movement speed while active, which persists for 5 seconds after weapon is holstered User is ignited while this weapon is active, and remains on fire for 10 seconds afterwards User cannot be healed or extinguished from any source while the speed boost is active -20% healing from all sources High risk, high reward, allowing scouts to dodge enemy fire or chase down targets, but at a serious health cost. Especially risky to use when enemy pyro's with flare guns are about. I think it would be fun to use, without having to rely on other pyros on your team. Limited use for Uber building as well. Whether you like the upside, I think the fire part of the weapon should involve self-ignition as a downside. Fire resistance is too specific a circumstance, especially with the pitiful 15 damage it protects you from right now. Buffs against ignited enemies is also too specific a circumstance, and actually having it ignite enemies basically turns it into the Boston basher. I don't see any other way to make it have a fire motif and actually be useful other than some kind of self ignition mechanic as the drawback.[/QUOTE] The Sun on a Stick While active: +25% increased movement speed and 25% increased swing speed while on fire +Critical hits vs burning players +Striking an enemy while on fire will ignite them and extinguish yourself +34% resistance to fire damage (!)wearer can be ignited by allied players -Afterburn does not extinguish over time or from health kits While inactive: 20% increased vulnerability to fire damage -50% holster and deploy speed turns scouts into chaos fireballs new uber build meta: friendly pyro fries scout while medic heals

[QUOTE=DrCactus;52668682]I have, plenty of times. I live in NA and play during day hours, while searching maps like Badwater, Dustbowl and 2fort. It's good you're getting faster times, but casual has been nothing but an inconvenience for me.[/QUOTE] What are you doing, searching one map at a time? Setting the ping limit to 25? I can't see how you could possibly be getting queue times that long.

I have on average 10 or more maps selected, and my ping limit is set to 80 (for reference, my ping in a virginia server averages around 2- 30 ping) Strangely, queue times are faster late at night rather than during the day.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;52668716]I have on average 10 or more maps selected, and my ping limit is set to 80 (for reference, my ping in a virginia server averages around 2- 30 ping) Strangely, queue times are faster late at night rather than during the day.[/QUOTE] That's really weird, can other east coasters weigh in on this? I'm west coast, are queue times somehow worse east coast?

[QUOTE=ikes;52668642]rainy day[/QUOTE] Rainy Day was mid may and didn't have taunts, they could have put out something start of August.

[QUOTE=Ultravod;52668615]Disagree strongly. MyM included the removal of QuickPlay, with [I]no replacement mechanic[/I] (besides the shit-tastic server browser) to funnel traffic to community servers. That was a stake through the heart for most of the remaining community servers. These were the ones that had managed to survive the change to QuickPlay in January of 2014 that forced users to opt in to connect to community servers at all. I'm referring to the ones [I]not[/I] named Skial. Servers running 24/7 instant respawn 2Fort, Turbine, Hightower, Harvest and possibly a few other maps manage to stay populated. Some of the time. 2Fort is the most popular map in TF2, but it's also the most over served. That is, there are far more servers running it than there are users looking to play on it. Community servers running less popular maps, even in a 24/7 instant TDM-friendly environment (Landfall, Doublecross, CTF Sawmill) are all but nonexistent. During the summer there was a brief renaissance where the children were out of school and helped populated some community servers and keeping the regulars interested. Now we are back to 24/7 Ghost Town (not Fort.) I see posts on /r/tf2 and elsewhere from well meaning would-be admins, asking about setting up a "vanilla rotation" server in X part of the world. I wish them luck, but I am quite sure that it is next to impossible to keep a community server that has respawn times and objective based gameplay populated for more than a short period of time. Yes, the balance changes from MyM were shit. The fact that these horrible changes haven't been address in 400+ days is mind bogglingly frustrating. Spies spamming the dead ringer and running away at 425 HU/s only to score a headshot with the ambassador moments later is legitimate grounds to uninstall the goddamn game. Being a Natascha heavy and getting wrecked by a half decent scout because even if we're at the same skill level, his meatshots hit way harder than I do and then being told I got "outplayed" makes me was to geolocate the lime wearing sonofabitch, drive to his home and punch him right in the junk. All of this said, I repeat, the balance changes were not the worst effect of MyM. It was the damage the update caused to the TF2 [I]community.[/I] TF2 is a social game, far more than CSGO, Dota2 or PUBG. Even in its broken to shit state state, I enjoy playing the game against randos, but I much prefer playing it against users I know. I prefer all-talk servers, for their good-natured (and NOT so good natured) trash talking between teams. I like community servers that have regulars whose wacky antics I know well: The insane Canadian who fancies himself a human sampler and shouts "Oh no, you suck!" "Shut up, little boy!" "Don't be a tryhard!" in his wacky voice. The spy main who likes to offclass as a BSS/Apo-Fist heavy and goes on far greater killstreaks with that combination then he has any right to. That one demoknight who keeps using the caber with a shield even after both have been nerfed into oblivion. Etc etc. I also enjoy playing against the the players whose tactics I legitimately hate: The black box/banner soldier who has a krtiz medic up his ass and dominates half the enemy team on 2Fort. Getting kills (or medic assists) on him and ending his gabendamn killstreak is, as the kids say, satisfying AF. Casual matchmaking never offers anything like above. It, and the broken official competitive mode are both gifts to cheaters. While community servers are far from perfect in this regard, they do offer considerably more defense against players who cheat, spam and grief in the game. TF2 almost as much a social platform as it is a video game. Lazy Purple's Silly Servers are some of the most enduring in the game, and the goal on them is seldom anything besides "hang around and be an idiot." In spite of what their occupants might imagine, trade servers are only slightly different with the addition of a profit motive. There may be CSGO trade servers, but what I observe on TF2 trades is that players advertise their CSGO (and Dota and most recently, PUBG) items along with their TF2 stock. I saw a guy trade a stack of unusual hats for a fricken PUBG skirt last week. TF2 is unique vs the other games I mentioned that far surpass its popularity in that it allows for all of this silly and not so silly behavior. The game's community is its lifeblood, and MyM did more damage to that core aspect of the game than anything else. If Valve doesn't address the gaping void left behind by the removal of quickplay, it will continue to have massively detrimental effects to the game regardless of what gameplay mechanics they do or do not implement.[/QUOTE] While I agree about the damage incurred by community servers, they were already in a state of decay as of July 2016 and I never played on Valve servers anyway, so the introduction of Casual meant very little. The two things that are universally applicable, permeating the entirety of the game, are classes and weapons; these are the elements that deserve the most attention, and can make or break the core experience. The demise of community servers causes consternation across the entire genre, given that the social component of multiplayer games in general is being marginalized in favor of goal-oriented competition. This often restricts things like customization, larger player pools, and communication across team lines (all talk). This problem isn't merely localized to TF2.

[QUOTE=ikes;52668698] (!)wearer can be ignited by allied players new uber build meta: friendly pyro fries scout while medic heals[/QUOTE] You say that now but if this change were to actually come out all you'd see in the killfeed is teamkills :v:

[QUOTE=jackteam54;52669102]You say that now but if this change were to actually come out all you'd see in the killfeed is teamkills :v:[/QUOTE] i mean it's voluntary, if you equip it you know what you're getting into. and the allied damage is only while the weapon is active. plus most pyros wont know if you have it on until you pull it out, so friendly fire would be a total non-issue

Pretty sure that 99% of pyros are just gonna burn the scout to death because as soon as he ignites a teammate he'll think it's an enemy spy and will stop at nothing until he dies.

[QUOTE=slapdown3;52669138]Pretty sure that 99% of pyros are just gonna burn the scout to death because as soon as he ignites a teammate he'll think it's an enemy spy and will stop at nothing until he dies.[/QUOTE] the distinct red/blue fire effect would prevent that in theory but some people are dumb enough if a scout sees himself getting roasted by a teammate all he has to do is switch off the weapon, and he already has fire resist to survive it I thought about all of this my boy, this rebalance is flawless

[QUOTE=ikes;52669150]the distinct red/blue fire effect would prevent that in theory but some people are dumb enough if a scout sees himself getting roasted by a teammate all he has to do is switch off the weapon, and he already has fire resist to survive it I thought about all of this my boy, this rebalance is flawless[/QUOTE] Sorry but I think the idea of friendly fire of any kind is really confusing for new players and dangerous to play around with in general in this game. The effect wouldnt matter as the damage is already done. Say, for example, a f2p pyro is spychecking and ignites the scout holding this weapon. The pyro freaks out and, thinking he is a spy based on every other situation hes ran into, continues to attack. When the scout switches to save his ass, thats not going to stop the pyro from thinking he is a spy for at least a little while. They're gonna be extremely confused as to why the scout isnt dead yet as they think he is a spy. If they do catch on, the poor scout then needs to run into battle constantly taking afterburn damage to extinguish himself or pray that the f2p pyro knows they can press m2. Even outside of the f2p situation there are a few nasty situations/exploits to come out of this: 1. It punishes both players for spy checking, even if the scout lives hes still taking damage. 2. Accidentally hitting your teammate with any weapon, even if they need the weapon out, is a mess to deal within a game with no such thing to exist. 3. Manmelter could pretty much have infinite crits, just get a buddy scout to light on fire and then extinguish for free crits or light random scouts on fire, damaging them just so you can have some crits. Or, even better, use the crits you got from lighting a teammate on fire on that same teammate! 4. That fire damage resistance wont do much on a backburner pyro. No way you could react in time. 5. More that I dont wanna mention cause itd take forever. Its an interesting idea for sure, but in the end, its something thats best off not existing.

[QUOTE=ikes;52668698]The Sun on a Stick While active: +25% increased movement speed and 25% increased swing speed while on fire +Critical hits vs burning players +Striking an enemy while on fire will ignite them and extinguish yourself +34% resistance to fire damage (!)wearer can be ignited by allied players -Afterburn does not extinguish over time or from health kits While inactive: 20% increased vulnerability to fire damage -50% holster and deploy speed turns scouts into chaos fireballs new uber build meta: friendly pyro fries scout while medic heals[/QUOTE] If this is a serious suggestion you need to really work on making your weapon ideas concise. As far as the actual stats go, this suggestion makes the scout even MORE reliant on enemy/teammate pyros than the earlier version, which was one of the biggest problems with the sun on a stick. In any case one melee crit, which basically deals as much damage as a good meatshot, is not worth losing your ability to extinguish yourself, especially with increased fire vulnerability. Think about this, if you get ignited and there's no enemies around to melee and no medic/pyro around to put you out, you're just dead. There's literally nothing you can do to stop it. Moreover, even if there are enemies around to melee, you're still at a massive disadvantage. If the pyro is still alive, the most likely option, then they have an airblast to keep you out of melee range. You can try to kill them with bullets and go find somebody else to melee, but to do that you have to use your scattergun or pistol, which means 20% fire vulnerability. So if you manage to kill the pyro with a 20% fire vulnerability, you're now ignited, and probably have taken at least 40 damage from afterburn alone. Now you're at 85 health, and (with the melee fire resist) you have 20 seconds to find an enemy to melee, or you just die outright. If you take 5 seconds to find somebody, you'll already die to one rocket or one meatshot. Heavies, soldiers, scouts, pyros, even demos and engis can all kill you with ease before you're in melee range, most of them being able to oneshot you. Even if you're working with a teammate pyro, you're now using two player slots to basically do a job that one pyro can do easily: deal burning crit damage. Instead of attacking the enemy, pyro now has to spend his time igniting his own team's scout (an extremely unintuitive idea in the first place, why would a pyro even think to ignite his own team's scouts, much less think that this would help them in any way). The problem is his time would better be spent igniting the enemy and use his own multitude of crit combo weapons to deal crit damage. The scout can just shoot the enemy while this is happening, dealing the same amount of damage with 105-damage meatshots, without having to take burning damage, and without having to waste time his team's pyro could better be spending by shooting the enemy directly. And of course the basher is a better option for uber build because you don't need to waste a pyro's time igniting the scout, who can just melee himself at any time. Long story short you somehow managed to make the sun on a stick worse.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52669214]If this is a serious suggestion you need to really work on making your weapon ideas concise.[/QUOTE] except it is. [QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52669214]Think about this, if you get ignited and there's no enemies around to melee and no medic around to put you out, you're just dead. [/QUOTE] other than switch weapons to enable extinguishing? that stat is meant to be a perk of the weapon, not a downside. it allows you to keep permanent buffed state while your health drains slowly due to afterburn. [QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52669214]If the pyro is still alive, the most likely option, then they have an airblast to keep you out of melee range. You can try to kill them with bullets and go find somebody else to melee, but to do that you have to use your scattergun or pistol, which means 20% fire vulnerability. So if you manage to kill the pyro with a 20% fire vulnerability, you're now ignited, and probably have taken at least 40 damage from afterburn alone.[/QUOTE] and there's the big downside to all of the perks to using this weapon. you cant contest pyros with it. You couldn't anyways considering you cant ignite them to deal crits, so this functions more as a teamwork-based weapon than it does getting ignited by enemy pyros (which is inconsistent and would more than likely lead to you over-extending to bait an ignition) [QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52669214]Even if you're working with a teammate pyro, you're now using two player slots to basically do a job that one pyro can do easily: deal burning crit damage.[/QUOTE] all the pyro has to do is puff you once and you're on fire indefinitely. there is no waste of slots here and you always have the option to return to your usual arsenal. The entire point is that the scout can trade his own health for dangerous movement speed and guaranteed crits on an opponent the only oversight on my part is making it so you extinguish yourself when striking an enemy. that does work against the whole point of the weapon. the 20% vulnerability is the only downside to this weapon (that and the holster/deploy speed, but you're not trading a whole lot since scout's bat is not an impressive weapon anyways) so I don't see how this is a downgrade since you don't -have- to use it. The vulnerability isnt a big deal either considering scout has the easiest time getting out of a pyro's range (besides soldier)

The thing is the sun on a stick needs a complete rework not a buff to the current idea, as the whole idea is so situational and gimmicky, as well as hard to pull off that its simply not worth ever using. Even if yours is a better version (which honestly, I dont think it is), its a better version of a weapon designed for a situation so small and pointless, that theres no reason to use it over much more general purpose melees such as the sandman (stuns and slows are strong), atomizer (third jump is great), boston basher (simple way to build uber fast), and heck, even the wrap assassin (extra ranged option), fan of war (minicrits to boost damage) and candy cane (free health kits). Compare their uses to your rework and it simply will never compete, and likely woudlnt even be used for the purpose you intended. If anything itd be used as an escape tool from pyros but you already outrun them so its still almost pointless even then.

[QUOTE=ikes;52668698]The Sun on a Stick While active: +25% increased movement speed and 25% increased swing speed while on fire +Critical hits vs burning players +Striking an enemy while on fire will ignite them and extinguish yourself +34% resistance to fire damage (!)wearer can be ignited by allied players -Afterburn does not extinguish over time or from health kits While inactive: 20% increased vulnerability to fire damage -50% holster and deploy speed turns scouts into chaos fireballs new uber build meta: friendly pyro fries scout while medic heals[/QUOTE] Friendly fire eh? You've failed to account for the troll factor. How about no. Grief is more powerful than fun, and people on the internet are mindless grief drones.

[QUOTE=C. Blades;52669299]Friendly fire eh? You've failed to account for the troll factor. How about no. Grief is more powerful than fun, and people on the internet are mindless grief drones.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but... this is limited to the Sun-on-a-Shit, just remember that.

[QUOTE=ikes;52669234]except it is. other than switch weapons to enable extinguishing? that stat is meant to be a perk of the weapon, not a downside. it allows you to keep permanent buffed state while your health drains slowly due to afterburn. and there's the big downside to all of the perks to using this weapon. you cant contest pyros with it. You couldn't anyways considering you cant ignite them to deal crits, so this functions more as a teamwork-based weapon than it does getting ignited by enemy pyros (which is inconsistent and would more than likely lead to you over-extending to bait an ignition) all the pyro has to do is puff you once and you're on fire indefinitely. there is no waste of slots here and you always have the option to return to your usual arsenal. The entire point is that the scout can trade his own health for dangerous movement speed and guaranteed crits on an opponent the only oversight on my part is making it so you extinguish yourself when striking an enemy. that does work against the whole point of the weapon. the 20% vulnerability is the only downside to this weapon (that and the holster/deploy speed, but you're not trading a whole lot since scout's bat is not an impressive weapon anyways) so I don't see how this is a downgrade since you don't -have- to use it. The vulnerability isnt a big deal either considering scout has the easiest time getting out of a pyro's range (besides soldier)[/QUOTE] None of this addresses the massive problem of relying on pyros to somehow know to ignite their own scouts, and relies on a pyro being on your team to begin which isn't even a guarantee. Under your new suggestion of the bat not extinguishing you, you still have to either have a pyro up your ass 24/7, or you have to never take out your ranged weapons, lest you start taking >7 damage per second. This one of the biggest problems with the weapon. If you don't have a pyro constantly with you, you have to either commit to doing nothing but meleeing people once you're ignited, or you have to keep running back to the pyro every time you extinguish yourself in order to fight people with your ranged options. If you want to use this weapon without constantly running back to your pyro, you have to lock yourself to melee or else take massive damage over time. This means trying to kill somebody using no ranged attacks with reduced health due to being on fire. You have to somehow survive an engagement where you have reduced health due to afterburn damage, no ranged attacks (unless you want to take even MORE damage due the vulnerability), in point blank range where there's no damage falloff. A pyro, heavy, scout, soldier, or even spy (never enter melee range of a spy) would kill you extremely easily. If you somehow manage to survive the encounter, you're now at very low health after all this afterburn damage and all the damage you've taken in the fight, and you'll probably die to the remaining afterburn even with the resistances. You say that the only downside is the fire vulnerability, but the only way to make use of this weapon is to [I]be on fire[/I]. That's an enormous downside, because forcing yourself to melee all the time reduces scout's options immensely. Basically, for any given engagement, you have to choose (far ahead of time, because you actually have to get ignited first) whether you want to be constantly taking damage, with nothing but melee attacks, or whether you'd rather be taking no fire damage with one of the highest burst-damage weapons in the game and a pistol to cover you at range. There's no contest, hitting somebody at melee range with reduced health just wouldn't be worth it. You've got passive fire vulnerability and an active, suicidal upside. I would never equip this over the atomizer for a third jump or the boston basher for uber.

How to fix Sun-on-a-Stick Remove from Scout; Give to Pyro as a secondary. I want my Frying Guillotine.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52669388]How to fix Sun-on-a-Stick Remove from Scout; Give to Pyro as a secondary. I want my [B]Frying Guillotine[/B].[/QUOTE] I want it just for the name alone, plus it'd be kinda fun to have another pyro secondary that doesn't need ammo. Though what would make it more appealing to use than the manmelter? Splash damage?

Honestly I feel like making the sun on the stick a reskin of the Boston Basher makes the most sense, but it's probably too late to do that at this point.

[QUOTE=Dumpus;52669422]Honestly I feel like making the sun on the stick a reskin of the Boston Basher makes the most sense, but it's probably too late to do that at this point.[/QUOTE] Early promo material for the Rift promo period suggested that the Volcanic Fragment was going to be an Axtinguisher reskin and the Sun on a Stick was going to be a Boston Basher reskin, but they presumably changed their minds and came up with new weapon stats fairly close to the launch period.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52669361]you still have to either have a pyro up your ass 24/7[/QUOTE] no you dont lol. just because you might need to go back to a pyro once in a while doesnt mean he needs to devote his attention to you. you dont even necessarily need to go back to the pyro. health kits in most maps are plentiful or nearby most combat zones. not even necessarily a pyro for that matter. cow mangler works too. and a pyro can still use flares to ignite you from a range. this is absolutly a co-operative weapon but it doesn't rely on two people devoting themselves to one goal. it's a for-fun weapon that works well with friends, it's not supposed to be a genuine sidegrade so much as it is gimmicky fun.