TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station: Whiteboard Blues - Games

[QUOTE=notpingas;52670281]People tend to want to play TDM on Casual mode, especially on a map like plr_hightower. In the kicker's eyes, you were a nuisance for shortening the round and possibly forcing him back to the queue. He probably would want to use that round time to have carefree fun. And before you mention community servers, yes, they are an alternative for TDM play but some people enjoy pubstomping with ease and not worrying about friendlies getting in the way. I think you were the bad guy of this story.[/QUOTE] If you're on a Valve matchmaking server, don't be surprised (and don't get mad) to come across people who want to play the game as intended. End of story.

[QUOTE=DrCactus;52669813]Thank you for not reading the 3 posts I made exactly after that one, and just cherry picking that. [/QUOTE] I read what you said and I am still incredibly confused given anyone else I'm asking about this even outside the EU seems to agree casual is p fast.

[QUOTE=bananaslamma;52669968]they should just remove random crits from all ranged weapons and replace melee crits with the gunslinger crit mechanic.[/QUOTE] so they never work?

I am sure that random crits will be removed in the update. What is interesting to me, is how they will balance weapons that become nerfed/buffed indirectly.

melee is far from useless without random crits.

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52669808]You know I've been thinking, when's the last time anybody got a random hat drop? Idk about you guys but it has to have been at least a year ago for me. Are cosmetic drops broken again?[/QUOTE] I got two hats just this weekend lol

Most of the community plays plr_hightower as dm_hightower. It works well as a DM map for all the classes, with the possible exception of the Heavy. Trying to kick people for playing the objective is extremely bad manners, but keep in mind that you're ruinning what this map has become for most of the community. I like playing the objective, but since no one does so in hightower I just get pissed. My recommendation for those who need to play the objective, remove Hightower from your map pools. You get to play in maps that aren't considered dm, with other players that go for the objective, you don't risk getting kicked for playing the objective and you don't ruin it for others. It's not even the best plr map. :\

[QUOTE=Petroklos;52670488]Most of the community plays plr_hightower as dm_hightower. It works well as a DM map for all the classes, with the possible exception of the Heavy. Trying to kick people for playing the objective is extremely bad manners, but keep in mind that you're ruinning what this map has become for most of the community. I like playing the objective, but since no one does so in hightower I just get pissed. My recommendation for those who need to play the objective, remove Hightower from your map pools. You get to play in maps that aren't considered dm, with other players that go for the objective, you don't risk getting kicked for playing the objective and you don't ruin it for others. It's not even the best plr map. :\[/QUOTE] How exactly does a 1 minute delay while the round restarts "ruin the map", even when people just want to kill each other and ignore the objective?

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52670495]How exactly does a 1 minute delay while the round restarts "ruin the map", even when people just want to kill each other and ignore the objective?[/QUOTE] To begin with, people leave. Extended hightower matches are the closest feeling you get to playing on dedicated servers. And it completely changes the feel of the game when the objectives are being done. Hastens the whole pace. And yes, then there's the wait for the next match, nothing great, but they stack up.

[QUOTE='[ToRn];52670359']If you're on a Valve matchmaking server, don't be surprised (and don't get mad) to come across people who want to play the game as intended. End of story.[/QUOTE] I happen to find myself split with this statement: On one hand, objective completion is a solid part of this game. I agree on that. On the other, my roots in Quickplay make me side with those against Casual's new motive to end the match sooner.

People want crits on melee because "otherwise itll be useless" which I find silly. Melee is useless either way and a razor blade to balance. I personally still believe all stock melee with the exception of the Wrench, Butterfly knife and possibly Bat should grant a minor movement speed boost around 10% or so when you have them active. Because right now melee is either A. Utility, which means heavily used B. Offensive, rarely used or C. useless. Making Stock Utility by default and thus the norm for melee weapons allows you to balance weapons around Utility and/or offensive, combat orientated. Example would be: Have a Sniper melee weapon that grants you offensive power for close-by spies and the like or when you really just wanna go ham, but strips you of the movement bonus - then you go on there, create a hybrid etc. If you don't make changes to Stock, you'll either have to live with all non-stock melee being overused and technically overpowered, or make all non-stock melee that are based around utility awfully boring.

[QUOTE=Dwapking;52670439]melee is far from useless without random crits.[/QUOTE] I was watching some videos on the best strategies in 2007 TF2 (evildaedalus' videos) and he seemed to always use the melee a lot. He would play Pyro, and sometimes when an enemy is on fire he'd finish them off with the fire axe. Sometimes as Scout he'd jump on top of an enemy and beat them to death with the bat. The crits helped, but they're still useful in terms of taking down unknowing enemies that are at low health.

Or you could just, you know...Shoot them when they're on low heatlh

But you don't have to reload melee weapons, and they have infinite ammo. Checkmate.

[QUOTE=Kegan;52670627]But you don't have to reload melee weapons, and they have infinite ammo. Checkmate.[/QUOTE] Well, yes but melees have a set swing speed. The delay between swings is technically the reload.

Say what you will about random melee crits, but should a Medic really be rewarded for charging into melee range of a Pyro?

What I'm tired the most of is wrench crits and ubersaw crits. They just happen so often.

What if the tf team are balancing every weapon so that they can remove the bullshit random crit mechanic?

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52670222]Because it's a big Nerf to medics and demos, who are already very vulnerable at close range. It's also a substantial Nerf to engi, who uses melee often to deal with spies. It would also make all of heavy's damage-oriented melees and the buffalo steak even MORE useless, and those are already trash tier, the last thing they need is nerfs. Everybody else on the cast rarely has any reason to try to melee somebody, so nerfing thier melee even further seems like a poor choice. Basically if you remove random crits you NEED to replace it with a damage buff to all melee or else the melee slot becomes even more irrelevant.[/QUOTE] Removing random crits wouldn't be a nerf to any class. No class/weapon should rely on random crits to be viable in the first place. It's not considered a nerf to remove random crits from the game if they should never be there to begin with.

[QUOTE=ToastyToes;52670760]Removing random crits wouldn't be a nerf to any class. No class/weapon should rely on random crits to be viable in the first place. It's not considered a nerf to remove random crits from the game if they should never be there to begin with.[/QUOTE] So if we remove random crits, it affects both the soldier class and sniper class just the same?...

[QUOTE=CoolJosh3k;52670776]So if we remove random crits, it affects both the soldier class and sniper class just the same?...[/QUOTE] I have no idea what you're talking about. Please make your point clear

[QUOTE=RedDagger;52670333]Yeah, because an ubersaw builds uber. Apart from that it's an "oh dear I can't run away guess I'll try to melee them" which again, shouldn't be rewarded with crits.[/QUOTE] ummm why

[QUOTE=Drury;52670814]ummm why[/QUOTE] because rewarding the most important class in the game [with crits] for risking his life for 25% uber is a terrible idea

[QUOTE=ToastyToes;52670784]I have no idea what you're talking about. Please make your point clear[/QUOTE] Well how often do you see a soldier benefit from random crits, vs how often you see a sniper benefit? Clearly removing random crits has a greater impact on classes such as the soldier. The average dps and effect on the game will decrease more so for some classes more than others.

[QUOTE=ToastyToes;52670784]I have no idea what you're talking about. Please make your point clear[/QUOTE] Existing weapons that have no random crits would get a slight boost but not really. This includes but is not limited to all Sniper's rifles, Huntsman, Ambassador, all Knives, Cow Mangler 5000, etc. It's not so much that they'd be boosted but that they would no longer have to worry about some chucklefuck firing a crit their direction since all potentially-critting weapons would be brought back down to Earth. It also would significantly impact Soldier and Demoman more than it would affect weapons with bullet spread, as a crit projectile has significantly more potency at all ranges and doesn't suffer from a natural loss of damage as fewer pellet connect at extreme distances. If random crits were removed, it would affect Demoman the most, then Soldier, then all shotgun-based classes, then all streaming-damage classes, then Spy and Sniper. But that's not a bad thing.

it'd also make mvm somewhat harder and I'm all for that nothing but positive points for their removal. nobody likes random crits for 10 years and counting

Could someone remind me which email was the best one to contact incase i wish to report a bug?

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;52670862]Existing weapons that have no random crits would get a slight boost but not really. This includes but is not limited to all Sniper's rifles, Huntsman, Ambassador, all Knives, Cow Mangler 5000, etc. It's not so much that they'd be boosted but that they would no longer have to worry about some chucklefuck firing a crit their direction since all potentially-critting weapons would be brought back down to Earth. It also would significantly impact Soldier and Demoman more than it would affect weapons with bullet spread, as a crit projectile has significantly more potency at all ranges and doesn't suffer from a natural loss of damage as fewer pellet connect at extreme distances. If random crits were removed, it would affect Demoman the most, then Soldier, then all shotgun-based classes, then all streaming-damage classes, then Spy and Sniper. But that's not a bad thing.[/QUOTE] My point is that there shouldn't be an rng mechanic in first a person shooter game to begin with.You're right, soldier usually causes more of an impact with crits than sniper does in most situations. That's how those classes work in general. Haven't you noticed valve slowly removing the "no random crits" con from most weapons and replacing with with a different disadvantages? The market garden comes to mind first. Valve is balancing weapons based on a lot of competitive players feedback, I don't see why random crits shouldn't be removed. Remove the mechanic that lowers the skill ceiling from the game already

I don't support keeping melee crits, however I view them as far less of a problem than ranged weapons, it's really not that big of a deal, when I say they could keep them, I mean it'd need a lot of work to rebalance melee without crits, which I could understand them not wanting to do if that means crits from ranged weapons can be removed sooner

I'm getting a 10k streak with the phlog and despite everything i do not feel defenseless at all like most people think a pyro would be without airblast. Hell, i believe most pyros will instinctively airblast a target even when there is no point in doing so, so over time i'm growing less and less reliant on airblast for the sake of. The only downside being that every time i outperform a team on either side two or three people switch to phlog pyro as well - but thats because newer players often switch to whatever class makes the most damage at the time.