TF2 General Chat and Speculation Station: Whiteboard Blues - Games

Tip of the Hats last day is going on. Drop by, leave a single buck or so as a donation, it makes a difference. [url]https://www.twitch.tv/tipofthehats[/url] Even Jill donated.

I can't fucking believe October 10th has become a reasonable date to expect the update on.

[QUOTE=socks_;52714000] they'd need to remodel every cosmetic in the game to fit the model of the Females[/QUOTE] why would they need to? just add workshop support for the new 9 and roll out brand new exclusive cosmetics for them they'd have to exclude cosmetics like beards and the burly beast anyways [editline]24th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=st00pid;52714001] already bulging on seams engine would just fail under the load of double as minimum estimate amount of game assets.[/QUOTE] no it wouldnt lol, it's just model swaps that more likely than not would never support the current existent cosmetic catalog. model swaps don't kill source, I don't really know where you're getting this impression

[QUOTE=Drury;52714124][url=https://twitter.com/charlesrandall/status/911987526541430784]Here's a nice little read[/url], not specifically about TF2 but imo sorta relevant.[/QUOTE] I don't particularly agree that consumer toxicity is a truism. If there's one thing the game industry should learn from the marketing industry, it's that people are ultimately malleable and impressionable. They can easily control and manage expectations with the proper approach.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52713812]So were those pieces of concept art just for kicks, or was the team seriously considering alternative female mercs?[/QUOTE] Well according to the site it was an internal pitch but I doubt it got very far for numerous reasons, like having to doubt the number of voice lines recorded, different hit boxes and (depending on when the pitch was) having the problem of not all cosmetics being compatible with the female models.

theyd be a nice thing to have for TF2C I'd help work on them for it if there's any interest

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;52713812]So were those pieces of concept art just for kicks, or was the team seriously considering alternative female mercs?[/QUOTE] It looks like concept art for a pitch, either an update or in-cannon feature. If the artist is comfortable with publicly posting this work, it's safe to assume the pitch didn't pan out.

judging from the weapons used, I'd say that was developer as early as 2009. or even earlier.

I don't really play TF2 as much as I used to anymore but I gotta admit those female designs are sick, I especially love the femspy designs cause it sorta fits in line with how I always envisioned a female spy. Something akin to Cate Archer. I'm glad that when they were being pitched they weren't just being pitched as female versions of the existing characters, I didn't really dig that idea.

[QUOTE=ikes;52713318]my curiosity is piqued. if the designs of the male cast was largely based on idealized imagery of those sorts of characters (soldier being based on wartime propaganda, scout on food and toy advertisement child mascots and the like, spy on james bond and the medic on crazed scientists of the media from the era) then shouldnt the female cast follow the same trends, being portrayed as idealized women of whatever respective character they are? it seems unfitting for scout to be a somewhat masculine black woman. a good handful of these concepts just dont seem to fit the art direction from a design standpoint.[/QUOTE] Source? I've never seen anywhere anywhere in an interview or design document saying this and I really don't get your point. Art direction is simpler than this, what youre describing is very limiting. It's just a general framework that leaves a lot of space for the expression of the designers. And tf2's characters were never based on "idealised advertisements" lol soldier is psychopath, spy has nothing to do with james bond and is literally a backstabber, scout is a young brat...your point makes no sense. The basic stylisation of the original style is inspired by the work of Leyendecker, who designed a lot his volumes and light to make very expressive shapes. It has nothing to do with "make the character more idealised" which tbh would make them very generic looking and is the easy way out every game takes theses days. Thoses designs are very much fitting the original tf2 artstyle. And even if they didn't, it wouldnt be a big deal at all. "Making the characters more idealised and attractive" is exactly what kills an artstyle to me and why valve game stand out when it comes to character design. It's exactly why disney and overwatch designs look extremely boring in my eyes. No experimentation in the facial design, everyone has the same ideal pretty facial features and different clothing. I want characters I can relate to because their face actually have interesting, beleivable but exagerated features. Sorry art direction is my job so I get ranty about this stuff. Edit : this post is more aggressive than I meant it to be, I apologise

[QUOTE=ikes;52713318]my curiosity is piqued. if the designs of the male cast was largely based on idealized imagery of those sorts of characters (soldier being based on wartime propaganda, scout on food and toy advertisement child mascots and the like, spy on james bond and the medic on crazed scientists of the media from the era) then shouldnt the female cast follow the same trends, being portrayed as idealized women of whatever respective character they are? it seems unfitting for scout to be a somewhat masculine black woman. a good handful of these concepts just dont seem to fit the art direction from a design standpoint.[/QUOTE] The mercs are just archetypes of those things you listed, they're definitely not idealized forms of them. And if this was the case then that wouldn't leave much for the female mercs to be other than Marilyn Monroe clones, besides heavy. This is the 60's we're talking about here, we really shouldn't go out of our way to uphold the ugly parts of it. Like a black woman somehow being unfitting :v: Something like a flower child sniper would be cool though.

Those designs look really good :dogwow:

The "ideal" 50/60s woman is not an ideal character design. It was a really bad time for women. Plus mercenary women would not fit in the ideal 60s housewives/pin up, pretty much the opposite. They are strong minded fighters and killers for money. Theses designs fit really well that idea and i'm sure the community has already adopted them. Ive seen a dozen fanarts already, here (can't get embedded tweets working on mobile for some reason) [URL="https://twitter.com/romiienn/status/912106614949265408?s=09"]https://twitter.com/romiienn/status/912106614949265408?s=09[/URL]

[media]https://twitter.com/MaxOfS2D/status/912012884686835713[/media]

this is more on the general discussion side of things, but should i get an (agree) circling tf logo tyrants helm (zing) kill a watt tyrants (funny) o. fire tyrants or a (freindly) tesla coil nasty norseman

[video=youtube;pt_-d0wY2rU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt_-d0wY2rU[/video] "He threatened to get his 4chan group of 4 million on us." Uh, not your personal army, pal.

[QUOTE=Tinker;52714659][media]https://twitter.com/MaxOfS2D/status/912012884686835713[/media][/QUOTE] Except it was deduced back in the day that it was a poorly-mapped version of the Scout's Mother. The yellow is her hairband, and the intense shadowing around her ears is because only the front of her face was seen in the MTS stills. As usual, Max is talking about things he has no idea about in an attempt to stay relevant.

This might be a bit of a weird question, but what's the best effect to pair with a waterlogged lab coat colored rotation sensation?

[QUOTE=socks_;52714794][video=youtube;pt_-d0wY2rU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt_-d0wY2rU[/video] "He threatened to get his 4chan group of 4 million on us." Uh, not your personal army, pal.[/QUOTE] I feel like I'm reading a headline from the [I]National Enquirer[/I] every time I see video thumbnails of that sort.

[QUOTE=Chris Morris;52714801]Except it was deduced back in the day that it was a poorly-mapped version of the Scout's Mother. The yellow is her hairband, and the intense shadowing around her ears is because only the front of her face was seen in the MTS stills. As usual, Max is talking about things he has no idea about in an attempt to stay relevant.[/QUOTE] For the record I don't have any grudge against Max, he's just a prat who comes to oblique conclusions about something and then assumes he's affirmatively and objectively correct. It could [B]not[/B] be the Scout's mother, really, but it was the consensus of the time and we don't have any evidence that suggests the contrary. That facemap only vaguely matches in facial structure. If anything, it looks like Early P2 Chell to me, but again it's more likely it's the scout's mother. That, and Max made all those bonkers sexist female scout and pyro models with massive great bazonkers and pink bows in their hair So You Know They're A Woman, Yo and it just gives me this unyielding air of a self-aggrandizing creep.

[QUOTE=Chris Morris;52714801]Except it was deduced back in the day that it was a poorly-mapped version of the Scout's Mother. The yellow is her hairband, and the intense shadowing around her ears is because only the front of her face was seen in the MTS stills. As usual, Max is talking about things he has no idea about in an attempt to stay relevant.[/QUOTE] You nerds are both wrong. It's a beta Alien Swarm asset: [img_thumb]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KcOxEj_j9Y8/UVjBZj5ui7I/AAAAAAAAMuk/qAmJrP6GQco/s1600/img-val_wildcat_special_weapons.jpg[/img_thumb]

Really I think the only reason those designs look good is because their aesthetic style is innately good. The fifties/sixties advertainment style is innately pleasing and societally we view culture from that era with a degree more reverence than say, the advertising illustrations of the seventies. But the designs themselves are by-the-numbers, mostly. Some of them, like the Demo and Spy, are stand-out and interesting, but the others look like generic as fuck triple A designs given the TF2 facelift. I mean, how many times do you see buff women in tank tops and tight trousers in video games? I can count a bunch right now: Trishka Novak from Bulletstorm, that woman from Gears of War 3, Modern Lara Croft, Tequila from AVP 2010, Faith from Mirror's Edge, Chell, Cait from Fallout 4.. really, the list goes on. And it would be fine if that was just the socut, since, you know, the scout wears a short-sleeved shirt. But then the female Soldier has a low-cut tank top with really tight shoulder cropping. One of the Heavy designs has a really short-sleeved T-shirt, and it makes you think.. hold on, surely we can do better than this bollocks? None of the characters in TF2 really look like anything else, except maybe the Soldier, who is trying to look like a WW2 GI in-universe. They have obvious visual similarities with real things or real historical illustrations, but they're all unique and recognizable. I mean for fuck's sake they're recognizeable as [B]Fucko Pops[/B] for christ's sake, so.. Why are the majority of these female variants so samey and generic? Are designers just that un-original when it comes to female designs, or is there something more insidious there? Of course not. This isn't to say that having female characters that bear skin is silly, but I think it's double-standard to have the female scout designs have short-shorts and then the scout himself wears track pants. FemSoldier has a disconcertingly low-cut tank top whereas Soldier himself wears a full field jacket and doesn't have his knob flapping in the breeze as he rocket jumps. Bit jebby. There's originality in some of the designs, but most of them don't really look like anything other than typical triple A title females with a coat of TF2 paint. Which is boring. And shit. And I don't like it. But these designs are eight years old, and dead, so I suppose in-depth analysis is pointless, ultimately. As we've seen with the comics, the TF team themselves, and their writers, respect female characters more than these designs show. DemoGran is great though.

[QUOTE=socks_;52714794][video=youtube;pt_-d0wY2rU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt_-d0wY2rU[/video] "He threatened to get his 4chan group of 4 million on us." Uh, not your personal army, pal.[/QUOTE] I suppose the only significant thing of value here was the... backpack being cut off from trading. Not sure why it was important to make a youtube video showcasing this guy's attention seeking behavior though. It's the internet, why is it so hard for people to block the assholes and move on?

What if Granny Demoman was voiced by Betty White :v:?

I imagine demogran having a really sweet softspoken grandma voice but being as equally offensive as regular demoman. And equally drunk

If the update comes out this week I will sacrifice an Unusual. I'm gonna :toxx: it. Usefuls if I should giftapult it. Zings if I should delete it. Optimistic if you don't like watching the world burn and would rather have it raffled off.

[QUOTE=grif;52714849]I suppose the only significant thing of value here was the... backpack being cut off from trading. Not sure why it was important to make a youtube video showcasing this guy's attention seeking behavior though. It's the internet, why is it so hard for people to block the assholes and move on?[/QUOTE] I mean, it's good to let people know about these scumbags so that they don't commit sudoku from his threats.

[QUOTE=socks_;52714794][video=youtube;pt_-d0wY2rU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt_-d0wY2rU[/video] "He threatened to get his 4chan group of 4 million on us." Uh, not your personal army, pal.[/QUOTE] i maybe a silli billi here but who is this unknown person?

[QUOTE=slapdown3;52714855]I imagine demogran having a really sweet softspoken grandma voice but being as equally offensive as regular demoman. And equally drunk[/QUOTE] "Awwww, sweetheart. Want a cookie? Well git on thee damn point and earn it!" *burps*

[QUOTE=scoottehbesht;52714865]If the update comes out this week I will sacrifice an Unusual. I'm gonna :toxx: it. Usefuls if I should giftapult it. Zings if I should delete it. Optimistic if you don't like watching the world burn and would rather have it raffled off.[/QUOTE] I want the raffle for a chance to spin it and win it, but having high value items flung in the void seems so amusing I couldn't resist the useful.