Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50321937]Where did b4nny mention core class changes? I don't mind some mechanical alterations, but if they translate into another overall debuff like L&W, I'll be quite livid.[/QUOTE] Grant "Minion Hater" Vincent has streamed an almost 5 hour stream in which he mentioned that valve was willing to make core class changes.

[QUOTE=Fluury;50324586]Grant "Minion Hater" Vincent has streamed an almost 5 hour stream in which he mentioned that valve was willing to make core class changes.[/QUOTE] What facilitates a core change in that context though? Back when the Medic was buffed from 1hp/sec to 3hp/sec as passive healing it was technically a core class change, but it wasn't a [i]core[/i] change on the same level as depleting ubercharge when deploying it on multiple players at once. The airblast being only able to stunlock for a single blast is a core change, but changing the way the blast actually functions to a true knockback would be a [i]core[/i] change. Where is the line in the sand drawn? A passing mention from a second-hand source isn't enough to sate my curiosity.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;50324600]What facilitates a core change in that context though? Back when the Medic was buffed from 1hp/sec to 3hp/sec as passive healing it was technically a core class change, but it wasn't a [i]core[/i] change on the same level as depleting ubercharge when deploying it on multiple players at once. The airblast being only able to stunlock for a single blast is a core change, but changing the way the blast actually functions to a true knockback would be a [i]core[/i] change. Where is the line in the sand drawn? A passing mention from a second-hand source isn't enough to sate my curiosity.[/QUOTE] He sadly did not mention that, but I suppose we'll see soon enough.

[QUOTE=Magypsy;50321125]The problem with Spy in HL is that he's always there. Running a Spy is 6's is used as a surprise tactic, you don't know whether or not one will appear unless you catch them out or they attack you. In HL, the Spy is a constant, so you'll always be aware of his presence and unlikely to let your guard down.[/QUOTE] Do you think you could change the rules then so that a team could have 2 of one class only. It adds a tactical element. Not only do you not know if there is a spy or not, but you have to pick which class to have as a 2nd. Could be a dumb idea, idk. Imo it works as it is, but maybe as something to try.

[QUOTE=Ace_Rimmer;50324748]Do you think you could change the rules then so that a team could have 2 of one class only. It adds a tactical element. Not only do you not know if there is a spy or not, but you have to pick which class to have as a 2nd. Could be a dumb idea, idk. Imo it works as it is, but maybe as something to try.[/QUOTE] The whole point of Highlander is that you have one of each class at all times, for better or worse.

It's not like Spy is literally unplayable in highlander though. You just can't go around stabbing everyone like in a pub. Pretty much just a more competitive environment, nothing dramatic. Doesn't really need any changes on that front.

[QUOTE=Drury;50324846]It's not like Spy is literally unplayable in highlander though. You just can't go around stabbing everyone like in a pub. Pretty much just a more competitive environment, nothing dramatic. Doesn't really need any changes on that front.[/QUOTE] If your entire team has voice communications, a Spy can actually do incredible damage simply by supplying a constant stream of intelligence on enemy positions.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50325077]If your entire team has voice communications, a Spy can actually do incredible damage simply by supplying a constant stream of intelligence on enemy positions.[/QUOTE] Also, even if enemy communicates well, spy still can be useful by damaging enemy's stream of intel with paranoid "SPY!" stuff. When i played HL i saw pushes that were successful just because enemy overreacted to dodgy spy presence and gave him too much attention instead of objective.

[QUOTE=Magypsy;50324827]The whole point of Highlander is that you have one of each class at all times, for better or worse.[/QUOTE] I am well aware, but you shouldn't be afraid to deviate from that if it creates a better game.

[QUOTE=Ace_Rimmer;50325947]I am well aware, but you shouldn't be afraid to deviate from that if it creates a better game.[/QUOTE] At that point it's not highlander anymore, just a pub with 18 players:smile:

[QUOTE=gaben's nut;50326057]At that point it's not highlander anymore, just a pub with 18 players:smile:[/QUOTE] No because you can only have 1 class with two players on it (not medic I assume). It adds a tactical element and makes spy plays a bit less predictable. Could be crap, but maybe worth a look imo. No harm in testing.

[QUOTE=Ace_Rimmer;50326174]No because you can only have 1 class with two players on it (not medic I assume). It adds a tactical element and makes spy plays a bit less predictable. Could be crap, but maybe worth a look imo. No harm in testing.[/QUOTE] Here's the thing though. [i]It [b]has[/b] been tested[/i]. These competitive house rules didn't just get pulled out of someone's ass and everyone agreed on it, there were trials where people were mindlessly fumbling around in scrimmages with one another and vying for a set of rules that were most fun to play and to watch. Using 6s as an example, the hard limit of 1 on several classes stemmed from periods of time where they were unrestricted and became dominant in what they performed. 2 Medics made a team nigh unkillable as they'd uber after uber and have heals for days. 2 Demomen would be able to lock down all routes of a map and turn it into a boring stalemate, same goes for 2 Heavies or Engineers. If you were to reopen up restrictions again, people will find the most abusive format and make sure to put it to use. I can most definitely assure you that it'd either be 2 snipers to lockdown the map's avenues or doubling up on anchor classes so the Medic is effectively hiding behind 7 proxies for that all-important ubercharge.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;50326266]Here's the thing though. [i]It [b]has[/b] been tested[/i]. These competitive house rules didn't just get pulled out of someone's ass and everyone agreed on it, there were trials where people were mindlessly fumbling around in scrimmages with one another and vying for a set of rules that were most fun to play and to watch. Using 6s as an example, the hard limit of 1 on several classes stemmed from periods of time where they were unrestricted and became dominant in what they performed. 2 Medics made a team nigh unkillable as they'd uber after uber and have heals for days. 2 Demomen would be able to lock down all routes of a map and turn it into a boring stalemate, same goes for 2 Heavies or Engineers. If you were to reopen up restrictions again, people will find the most abusive format and make sure to put it to use. I can most definitely assure you that it'd either be 2 snipers to lockdown the map's avenues or doubling up on anchor classes so the Medic is effectively hiding behind 7 proxies for that all-important ubercharge.[/QUOTE] this kind of restrictive design is why I personally find highlander a better competitive format for players, though maybe less technically "competitive" just my opinion

Correct me if I'm late on this, but laser weapons like Righteous Bison, Pomson, and Cow Mangler aren't reloading with autoreload on since last update.

i dont use autoreload cause it gives me weird animation issues with things like SMG and pistol lol

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;50326266]Here's the thing though. [i]It [b]has[/b] been tested[/i]. These competitive house rules didn't just get pulled out of someone's ass and everyone agreed on it, there were trials where people were mindlessly fumbling around in scrimmages with one another and vying for a set of rules that were most fun to play and to watch. Using 6s as an example, the hard limit of 1 on several classes stemmed from periods of time where they were unrestricted and became dominant in what they performed. 2 Medics made a team nigh unkillable as they'd uber after uber and have heals for days. 2 Demomen would be able to lock down all routes of a map and turn it into a boring stalemate, same goes for 2 Heavies or Engineers. If you were to reopen up restrictions again, people will find the most abusive format and make sure to put it to use. I can most definitely assure you that it'd either be 2 snipers to lockdown the map's avenues or doubling up on anchor classes so the Medic is effectively hiding behind 7 proxies for that all-important ubercharge.[/QUOTE] I suppose so. I'd like to see it tested, but you may well be right.

Anyone else still find Matchmaking garbage. I mean I know it's beta but god it feels like such a snoozefest when I try to solo queue and be put up against non-stop premades and the fact it's still bugged so no matter what the first time I try to play it in a playsession means that I am forced into an abandon is pretty not cool either

Yep it's pretty underwhelming in it's current state, but if we are to trust that b4nny guy then things will surely turn out for the best.

Anyone else not having any luck getting Mayflower case drops? Ive logged in a few times after that update came out and i only keep getting tough break cosmetic cases and normal crates.

[QUOTE=ikes;50326631]i dont use autoreload cause it gives me weird animation issues with things like SMG and pistol lol[/QUOTE] Auto reload no longer allows you to simultaneously fire and reload weapons at the same time, which would cause odd animation issues.

[QUOTE=Yukinari;50328165]Anyone else not having any luck getting Mayflower case drops? Ive logged in a few times after that update came out and i only keep getting tough break cosmetic cases and normal crates.[/QUOTE] I've only found 1 case in the time they've been out, and even then it was like 2 days after the update dropped.

[QUOTE=ikes;50326580]this kind of restrictive design is why I personally find highlander a better competitive format for players, though maybe less technically "competitive" just my opinion[/QUOTE] What? If anything, highlander's more restrictive in its class ruleset than 6s houserules are. The big difference is that highlander adds 3 more players to the mix to pick up the slack. 6s class ruleset is effectively the same as highlander. Every class gets 1...except for the classes that don't ruin the game by having more than 1. The difference between 6s and pro-lander should make it apparent how freeform the 6s rules make it, despite how most players will fall into the same sort of class format with occasional offclassing. It's difficult for someone on the outside to look at it and understand how it actually works. The standard formula existed prior to the rules, not the rules deciding what the standard formula would be. The primary reason for the class limit 1 on several classes in 6s is because those classes are a complete buzzkill when they're given the freedom to mass together.

[QUOTE=ikes;50326580]this kind of restrictive design is why I personally find highlander a better competitive format for players, though maybe less technically "competitive" just my opinion[/QUOTE] 6S doesn't restrict you to a certain class. Highlander is the opposite. Assuming weapons are rebalanced, weapon bans won't be an issue for either. Overall 6s has MORE oppertunity for fresh application because it doesn't glue you into a team format. the meta is just what happens to be effective.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;50329221]What? If anything, highlander's more restrictive in its class ruleset than 6s houserules are. The big difference is that highlander adds 3 more players to the mix to pick up the slack. 6s class ruleset is effectively the same as highlander. Every class gets 1...except for the classes that don't ruin the game by having more than 1. The difference between 6s and pro-lander should make it apparent how freeform the 6s rules make it, despite how most players will fall into the same sort of class format with occasional offclassing. It's difficult for someone on the outside to look at it and understand how it actually works. The standard formula existed prior to the rules, not the rules deciding what the standard formula would be. The primary reason for the class limit 1 on several classes in 6s is because those classes are a complete buzzkill when they're given the freedom to mass together.[/QUOTE] I'd consider it less restrictive due to the fact that weapon bans are minimal to none and that EVERY class has to be used. The 6s meta is so locked on power classes and occasional off-classing that it's actually less interesting to watch, at least for me. It seems so much less like "Team Fortress 2" and more like "Soldier and Scout fortress 2" or "Power Class Fortress 2"

[QUOTE=ikes;50329714]I'd consider it less restrictive due to the fact that weapon bans are minimal to none and that EVERY class has to be used. The 6s meta is so locked on power classes and occasional off-classing that it's actually less interesting to watch, at least for me. It seems so much less like "Team Fortress 2" and more like "Soldier and Scout fortress 2" or "Power Class Fortress 2"[/QUOTE] You can't seriously be using "less restrictive" and "EVERY CLASS HAS TO BE USED" in the same sentence together. You're also ignoring the fact that matchmaking doesn't have weapon bans, so that argument is a completely moot point right now. Valve has the ability to make other classes more viable for 6s. Of course 6s has a stern meta, the weapons and classes need tweaking. that's what statistic collection is for. So valve can balance things around it. Right now the game has a lot of dumb weapons, you have to judge their potential, not just their current perception. You also are never locked into any classes or weapons by default.

Both Highlander and 6s pretty restrictive in their own ways compared to pub play. I wouldn't say Highlander is more or less restrictive then 6s, obviously the one of each class limit is more restrictive but there are less weapon bans. If anything the Highlander format is much closer in format to pubs, seeing as how there are more game modes, all the classes and less weapon restrictions but for pure competitive play I imagine 6s probably works better. Also I don't know if anyone else saw this, but Punchy summarized some of the additional info B4nny said about the upcoming update in the newest episode of Backcap: [video]https://youtu.be/V7O1eDlPoRk?t=9m42s[/video] The main reason B4nny was invited to Valve was to look at weapon rebalances. The current TF2 team has 10+ active members. TF2 may get majors (CSGO Valve sponsored tournaments with $250k+ prize pools) if matchmaking is well received but but the comp community shouldn't expect direct financial support from Valve anytime soon. Valve is actively looking at the performance of TF2 so optimization seems to be a big priority for the TF2 team. The update will be a new take on things - competitive is the main driving force behind the update but it will be beneficial to all aspects of TF2.

[QUOTE=Punchy;50329507]6S doesn't restrict you to a certain class. Highlander is the opposite. Assuming weapons are rebalanced, weapon bans won't be an issue for either. Overall 6s has MORE oppertunity for fresh application because it doesn't glue you into a team format. the meta is just what happens to be effective.[/QUOTE] The potential for cool individual plays and skill is much more prevalent in 6s, imo. A lot of players seem pidgeonholed into certain roles in HL. Dont get me wrong, I play both and like both, but there's a lot more mobility and teamwork, and cool plays like backcaps wont happen because you have engies 24/7 building level 3s and the Scout would have to get by 3 more people Also I will never forget waiting 30 mins for scrims to start in steel HL, finding players to play a certain role is a pain, and also casting 6v6 is easier to follow and look at

Since TF2 Updates usually come out around the same time the Summer Sale drops.... [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/x4f1Bex.png[/IMG] The Moonrunes stand for June and July. Sadly. :v:

Lets hope the TF2 update this year comes out before the sale instead of after it like last year. The week of June 23rd certainly sounds like a wonderful time for an update.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;50330759]Lets hope the TF2 update this year comes out before the sale instead of after it like last year. The week of June 23rd certainly sounds like a wonderful time for an update.[/QUOTE] I know this is selfish but i hope it will be the same like last year so i will get that update announcement as birthday present from VALVe on 1st of July (come on, it's just 1 week more) Please c: