Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition

[Drury]

[QUOTE=sponge7325;49878261]Keep in mind this is three-four months, as stated on the 9th of September, 2015, and that due-date has all but passed, so we really still don't know.[/QUOTE]

Ooooooh gotcha.

[Geel]

Why are you guys so stubborn about b4nny's thoughts? Have you considered that maybe the literal best player in competitive TF2 knows more about competitive TF2 than you do?

[Bynine]

i don't think anyone is disagreeing with b4nny, they're disagreeing that the video that got posted implied that b4nny wanted the non 6's classes changed to be viable for 6's

[sombrez]

Imagine if there was a special 12v12 mode where you could choose to be the attacking side or defending side of a team

It would work on these gamemodes:

PASS Time

CTF

Payload Race (sort of)

Robot Destruction (sort of)

Now obviously 12v12 is shit for the 6s gamemodes, but I'm pretty sure these gamemodes are better when it's 12v12

We'll have to test it though

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49878093]And in the next Episode of "B4nny complains about balance"

[video=youtube;s3oEEM-1Z2k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3oEEM-1Z2k[/video]

Given that after the Pyro-Rant, we got some Pyro changes (which a lot of people didn't enjoy) - theres a chance we might get more changes, no?[/QUOTE]

the inflated ego and 6s elitism is real

[Geel]

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49878696]the inflated ego and 6s elitism is real[/QUOTE]

When it comes to competitive TF2, do you think you know more as a pubber than someone who has won multiple world championships?

[Cosmic feel]

Again, I don't understand why people expect Valve to follow the schedules they set for anything because their track record with schedules is absolutely pitiful

[NO LOAFING!]

Oh, hey, the [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/artwork.php"]blog[/URL] has high-res versions of all the competitive mode artwork now. When did that happen?

[t]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/tf2/artwork/competitive_2560x1600.jpg[/t]

[Thunder_Cat7]

The think these pictures of competitive are competitive background because it says competitive_tier1_ but there only six of them [url]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/tf2/artwork/competitive_tier1_2650x1600.jpg[/url] [url]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/tf2/artwork/competitive_tier6_2650x1600.jpg[/url]

[Cufflux]

[t]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/tf2/artwork/competitive_tier5_2650x1600.jpg[/t]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/y5HcpI8.png[/img]

...huh.

[Shift28]

"You just have to get good with the classes, that are the best."

wow elitism much, so hes saying fuck the classes that arent soldier, medic, or demo???

Or am I just misunderstanding?

Also the pistols comparison is retarded, you arent upgrading to a new weapon by switching classes.

Pissweak argument to not buff the classes that need it so that he can jack off his ego to soldier only.

[pepetoads]

[QUOTE=Firetornado;49879622]"You just have to get good with the classes, that are the best."

wow elitism much, so hes saying fuck the classes that arent soldier, medic, or demo???

Or am I just misunderstanding?

Also the pistols comparison is retarded, you arent upgrading to a new weapon by switching classes.

Pissweak argument to not buff the classes that need it so that he can jack off his ego to soldier only.[/QUOTE]

i dont even know how to respond to something that dumb

first of all, you missed out out probably the best class when mentioning the best classes. And what's wrong with getting good at the classes that can be run most of the time? That's not elitism, that's stating a fact.

The pistols comparison isn't retarded either. Imagine pyro as a tec9. Obviously, you cant run a tec9 all game. But, in some instances, you need to use it, likewise with offclasses.

Not to mention he plays pretty much all the classes to some extent, lol

[Lateguy]

I'm really hoping they make clocks for the other qualities than civilian. I want a strange high roller's rocket launcher dang it.

[_Dalek]

[QUOTE=lateguy;49879947]I'm really hoping they make clocks for the other qualities than civilian. I want a strange high roller's rocket launcher dang it.[/QUOTE]

I want a strange field-tested shot in the dark

[Psychopath]

[QUOTE=geel9;49878618]Why are you guys so stubborn about b4nny's thoughts? Have you considered that maybe the literal best player in competitive TF2 knows more about competitive TF2 than you do?[/QUOTE]

Having the position as the best player in competitive TF2 give him a full-pass on what he says though.

In his Pyro rant, for example, he said some agreeable things and he said some things that were missing the point despite going in the right direction. The changes that we received were along those same lines of being in the right direction but not really directly addressing the elephant in the room, instead just kinda shoving half of the elephant out the window.

In this instance, he's addressing things at a conceptual level rather than a technical and mechanical level. You could very easily transcribe his argument onto most analogies without much issue. The easiest comparison to offer is to simply compare the class tools to literal carpenter tools like hammers, saws, and drills. Some tools are useful for every project, some tools offer uses that cannot hope to be replicated by other tools, some tools have niche uses depending on the project but they do their niche thing very well. No one would really argue against such a claim, but when the tools are instead a class in a videogame, people get uppity about it.

The issue is not necessarily with the tools, the issue is instead with the projects. There's little room for those tools to shine if the game format heavily encourages using the general-use and mobile classes. Having 6 people makes every individual count a lot more than in highlander and definitely more than in 12-man pub play. The 6s ruleset is a set of house rules, as such it doesn't truly reflect the entirety of TF2. But those rules are in place for a reason: to mitigate the amount of scumming that teams could potentially do that'd bring the game to a grinding halt and make the game cease to be fun to watch or play. Would I like to see a ruleset that doesn't outwardly seem arbitrary to prospective new players and viewers? Of course, but this is the format that's prevailed over several years of refinement from its original format where no class limits existed and lots of bullshit stalemates were the norm.

[mphayes97]

[img]http://puu.sh/nxd7t.png[/img]
does this sound good to send?

[pepetoads]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49880265]Having the position as the best player in competitive TF2 give him a full-pass on what he says though.

In his Pyro rant, for example, he said some agreeable things and he said some things that were missing the point despite going in the right direction. The changes that we received were along those same lines of being in the right direction but not really directly addressing the elephant in the room, instead just kinda shoving half of the elephant out the window.

In this instance, he's addressing things at a conceptual level rather than a technical and mechanical level. You could very easily transcribe his argument onto most analogies without much issue. The easiest comparison to offer is to simply compare the class tools to literal carpenter tools like hammers, saws, and drills. Some tools are useful for every project, some tools offer uses that cannot hope to be replicated by other tools, some tools have niche uses depending on the project but they do their niche thing very well. No one would really argue against such a claim, but when the tools are instead a class in a videogame, people get uppity about it.

The issue is not necessarily with the tools, the issue is instead with the projects. There's little room for those tools to shine if the game format heavily encourages using the general-use and mobile classes. Having 6 people makes every individual count a lot more than in highlander and definitely more than in 12-man pub play. The 6s ruleset is a set of house rules, as such it doesn't truly reflect the entirety of TF2. But those rules are in place for a reason: to mitigate the amount of scumming that teams could potentially do that'd bring the game to a grinding halt and make the game cease to be fun to watch or play. Would I like to see a ruleset that doesn't outwardly seem arbitrary to prospective new players and viewers? Of course, but this is the format that's prevailed over several years of refinement from its original format where no class limits existed and lots of bullshit stalemates were the norm.[/QUOTE]

6s is a house of rules no more than highlander is, especially since valve has already said that it's not representative of "true tf2" at all.

[NO LOAFING!]

[QUOTE=mphayes97;49880355][img]http://puu.sh/nxd7t.png[/img]
does this sound good to send?[/QUOTE]

Where is the Medic's uber count supposed to draw on the HUD when the usual space is taken up by the crossbow's ammo count?

[NeoDement]

that's Valve's problem tbh

[Psychopath]

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49880398]6s is a house of rules no more than highlander is, especially since valve has already said that it's not representative of "true tf2" at all.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand where you're trying to get with this statement. All you've done is agree with me but framed it as if you're saying something different.

[mphayes97]

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;49880410]Where is the Medic's uber count supposed to draw on the HUD when the usual space is taken up by the crossbow's ammo count?[/QUOTE]

true, i forgot about the stock hud. to the left of it i guess? similar to the soldier's rockets next to his rage for his banner

[jimbobjoe1234]

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;49878801]Oh, hey, the [URL="http://www.teamfortress.com/artwork.php"]blog[/URL] has high-res versions of all the competitive mode artwork now. When did that happen?

[t]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/tf2/artwork/competitive_2560x1600.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]

That image took three to four months to make.

[NO LOAFING!]

[QUOTE=jimbobjoe1234;49880452]That image took three to four months to make.[/QUOTE]

i also like how the art for the currently sixes-only competitive mode has a demoknight, a heavy, a pyro, and a spy in it

[Barno]

[QUOTE=TwoYearLurker;49880568]i also like how the art for the currently sixes-only competitive mode has a demoknight, a heavy, a pyro, and a spy in it[/QUOTE]

This sums up my competitive experience in and out of matchmaking :/

But i really have no idea why theyd give demo his sword instead of a sticky, and even why heavy isnt using the GRU. They really are just the most common weapons used so itd best represent them barring stock (even though it looks nice, tbh id go with rule of cool here)

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49880433]post[/QUOTE]

Accidentally rated while scrolling on mobile, idk about this argument.

[UpgradeTech]

I can't really imagine the Administrator saying "Highlander".

Then again, she only has one line mentioning "6s".

[url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/0/01/Cm_admin_outlier_yes_rare_04.mp3?t=20160301103453[/url]

[pepetoads]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49880433]I don't understand where you're trying to get with this statement. All you've done is agree with me but framed it as if you're saying something different.[/QUOTE]

forgive me, i read your post wrong

[editline]6th March 2016[/editline]

[QUOTE=Upgrade;49880759]I can't really imagine the Administrator saying "Highlander".

Then again, she only has one line mentioning "6s".

[url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/0/01/Cm_admin_outlier_yes_rare_04.mp3?t=20160301103453[/url][/QUOTE]

while i like that the matchmaking mode is 6s it feels so weird to hear her say "6s" lol

[cha0s]

[QUOTE=mphayes97;49880355][img]http://puu.sh/nxd7t.png[/img]
does this sound good to send?[/QUOTE]

If valve adds this, this will be just another hud element that hud makers will have to recreate, also at some point theirs gonna be way to many things on the screen to look at.

[Rajikaru]

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49880783]forgive me, i read your post wrong

[editline]6th March 2016[/editline]

while i like that the matchmaking mode is 6s it feels so weird to hear her say "6s" lol[/QUOTE]

Yea, the name for 6s doesn't really roll off the tongue, and it's pretty darn vague in a more broad sense.

[QUOTE=cha0s;49881243]If valve adds this, this will be just another hud element that hud makers will have to recreate, also at some point theirs gonna be way to many things on the screen to look at.[/QUOTE]

[B][I]OH GOD NOT MORE WORK FOR POOR HUDMAKERS TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH, HAVEN'T THEY BEEN THROUGH ENOUGH????????? THINK OF THEIR FAMILIES[/I][/B]

[GuntMyFries]

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gnaLoC3kWA"]VNN has some new info on Passtime thanks to discussion with the devs.[/URL] I have to say, the dev's plans sound they are really going to clean up the game-mode, and actually make it a competitive and enjoyable experience.

[Doctor Hunt]

[QUOTE=Upgrade;49880759]I can't really imagine the Administrator saying "Highlander".

Then again, she only has one line mentioning "6s".

[url]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/0/01/Cm_admin_outlier_yes_rare_04.mp3?t=20160301103453[/url][/QUOTE]

I think it would sound a bit more natural than "9s"