Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

For my part, I was a fan of the Family Business. It wasn't anything super crazy interesting, I just liked having two extra shotgun shells in a clip which helped me a lot more in practice than the math might have suggested about its actual DPS. I think there's room for a few inoffensive +/- stat weapons here and there. Obviously, I'm a big fan of its buffs. It's nothing dramatic, but to me, it feels just right when I need to harass people on the move as Heavy. I don't think there's all that much room for new/interesting sidegrades in the game design remaining - any new ones, I hope they apply to older weapons that just simply never worked. Valve's primary hold-up about that, to wit, is that they want to maintain core functionality best they can on weapons people bought with their real money.

[QUOTE=Upgrade;50472794]Behind the rose-colored glasses, I remember people ranting about how the Uber Update weapons were poorly balanced. At release: Tomislav, Liberty Launcher, Soda Popper, Splendid Screen, and Enforcer. Most of the weapons in the Uber Update were tweaked anyway in the intervening years.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the dreaded Tommy Gruvich and Dr. Enforcicle. Remember those guys?

[QUOTE=Popularvote;50472875]Ah yes, the dreaded Tommy Gruvich and Dr. Enforcicle. Remember those guys?[/QUOTE] Dr. Enforcicle hasn't gone anywhere. Haven't seen Tommy Gruvich for a good while though. I liked him.

I think 7 or 8 is about the max amount of weapons they can add in a single update without most of them just being either filler or broken in some way. As the amount of weapons they added per update increased, the quality of the stats, sounds, animations and kill icons went down, but when they starter toning it back down and sticking to smaller numbers like the old class updates, items starting coming out with better, easier to balance stats, proper kill icons, no lazy animation issues, and just generally more polished overall. [QUOTE=LittleBabyman;50472888]Dr. Enforcicle hasn't gone anywhere. Haven't seen Tommy Gruvich for a good while though. I liked him.[/QUOTE] I still see the Dead Ringer and Spycicle used, but I can't remember the last time I saw an enforcer. Pretty much all Ambassadors or Revolvers (with skins) these days, at least on Valve servers. I run full stock Spy, other than the Big Kill instead of the stock revolver, and the festive sapper, but they're the same thing. I wish there was a strange Ap-Sap and strange Big Kill :/

Even after the massive nerf of the Tomislav its still widely used in my personal experience. The only time i see anybody use Natascha or the Brass Beast is when the player is F2P. Maybe some use in MvM too. I just dont feel like the buffs are enough to want me to switch from stock.

[QUOTE=Yukinari;50473024]Even after the massive nerf of the Tomislav its still widely used in my personal experience.[/QUOTE] Accuracy stat boost plus the accuracy ramp-up they did just makes spreadshotting Tomislav heavies annoying.

[QUOTE=Yukinari;50473024]Even after the massive nerf of the Tomislav its still widely used in my personal experience. The only time i see anybody use Natascha or the Brass Beast is when the player is F2P. Maybe some use in MvM too. I just dont feel like the buffs are enough to want me to switch from stock.[/QUOTE] Brass Beast is actually quite good, but only if you're defending. Sitting spun up next to a sentry with a medic up your ass can pretty much form an unbreakable barrier. Rounding a corner at 5 planck lengths per second when you're spun up isn't nearly as fun though. Natascha is only useful if you want to make scout mains cry.

[QUOTE=riki2cool;50473104] Natascha is only useful if you want to make scout mains cry.[/QUOTE] The only reason to live.

Natasha is pretty good when you have to move the payload around, the extra resistance helps to tank damage and slow down any sneaky pyro or spy. Back on topic: I would love to see more promotional weapons, they added a new style to the weapons (Shogun update or Deus Ex one) in a weird yet awesome combination of styles. Of course the re-touch of old weapons is appreciated, but I find them really hard to balance, how do you fix a weapon without breaking it or making it OP? a lot of essay and errors is needed and sometimes this bring a lot of ruckus.

In my experience, the only instance in which the Brass Beast is fielded would be when someone is agitated by another Heavy and wants an easy counter. You know, when all the other multifarious counterplay options somehow aren't working.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50473620]In my experience, the only instance in which the Brass Beast is fielded would be when someone is agitated by another Heavy and wants an easy counter. You know, when all the other multifarious counterplay options somehow aren't working.[/QUOTE] Even then rev up time and mobility of stock or tomi trumps the 20% damage boost and resistance 9 times outta 10.

I like the Brass Beast a lot. It feels like it rewards precision in deciding when to spin up and attack, and is also great for taking on sentries because of the damage reduction you get. It's not great for reactionary play in incidental battles - that's what my shotgun is for, sometimes even my fists - but it lets me really storm a nasty entrenchment of enemies. The stock minigun is probably the best one all-around, but I love that weighty feel the Brass Beast gives.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50473720]Even then rev up time and mobility of stock or tomi trumps the 20% damage boost and resistance 9 times outta 10.[/QUOTE] A Brass Beast Heavy being used to impede any other Heavy will typically be found permarevving around key locations he expects the other Heavy to be. It isn't an optimal tactic by any means, but then, their only goal is to frustrate an enemy Heavy's efforts, not survive or contribute to their team.

Brass Beast is just another one of those weapons which have "more damage" for the main gimmick and thus could just never work by default. Those damage values on stock weapons were set that way for a reason, there were thresholds and TTK to consider. Then not only Valve adds Brass Beast, and subsequently smothers it upon realizing the above, but also nerfs Heavy's damage output as a whole... The gun is not only useless on it's own, it's also on a class that's useless all over. What a mess.

[QUOTE=riki2cool;50473104]Brass Beast is actually quite good, but only if you're defending. Sitting spun up next to a sentry with a medic up your ass can pretty much form an unbreakable barrier. Rounding a corner at 5 planck lengths per second when you're spun up isn't nearly as fun though. Natascha is only useful if you want to make scout mains cry.[/QUOTE] on behalf of every demo and soldier ever thank you for gimping yourself

damage resis was the laziest addition ever and does nothing but annoy attackers for the wrong reasons though. Guns aren't measured on how fast they get you killed, they're measured on how well you can attack or defend yourself with. Look at the backscatter. Brassbeast and company are terrible because they overpenalize the user, not because they're supposed to make you feel like a wall (nobody can be a wall.) "tank" is not really a role in tf2 because all primary attacks were designed too powerful for that. If you do make a "tanking" item then you end up with the fists of steel and vac which are getting nerfed all the time.

Stock Minigun best Minigun

I wouldn't mind valve adding new weapons, in fact I've been wanting that for a bit now, but they really need to focus on making everything balanced or else it's going to be a clusterfuck.

A really enjoy using natascha because of its damage resistance. It's saved my life many times from damage that would have otherwise killed me. The slowdown is just a bonus to help compensate the -30% DPS.

[QUOTE=Fluury;50472570]I remember buying like 20 ToD Tickets because "Theres no way they will ship mvm-styled hats without a new mvm mission, right?" I was wrong :V - not that they promised a new one anyways, I just expected it.[/QUOTE] Why would you buy ToD tickets in advance? It's not like they're going anywhere.

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;50474387]Why would you buy ToD tickets in advance? It's not like they're going anywhere.[/QUOTE] When your currency is higher than the U.S. dollar thats when you buy 20

[QUOTE=ned_ballad;50472889]I think 7 or 8 is about the max amount of weapons they can add in a single update without most of them just being either filler or broken in some way. As the amount of weapons they added per update increased, the quality of the stats, sounds, animations and kill icons went down, but when they starter toning it back down and sticking to smaller numbers like the old class updates, items starting coming out with better, easier to balance stats, proper kill icons, no lazy animation issues, and just generally more polished overall. I still see the Dead Ringer and Spycicle used, but I can't remember the last time I saw an enforcer. Pretty much all Ambassadors or Revolvers (with skins) these days, at least on Valve servers. I run full stock Spy, other than the Big Kill instead of the stock revolver, and the festive sapper, but they're the same thing. I wish there was a strange Ap-Sap and strange Big Kill :/[/QUOTE] I'd say the L'Etranger is just as useful to the ambassador. As for miniguns, I still prefer stock personally. But Tomislav I do still use on ocassions, it does have it's uses. I feel that the problem with the miniguns is that there's not enough to distinguish some from others enough. They all act too simular to the point that one will always be better in almost every situation over the other. Something I feel weapons like the stock flamethrower surfers from the degreaser. Good side grades I feel should have decent upsides over alternatives, but not completely outclass the other options. Generally situational. This is where weapons like the brass beast just sort of fail.

I've used the Tomislav so much for so long that my mind doesn't allow me to use any other Minigun that often because it annoys me that the enemy can hear me coming thanks to the spinup noise.

I've only used the Tomislav so I can rank up my strange variant and brag to nobody

[QUOTE=Kitt Stargaze;50474688]I'd say the L'Etranger is just as useful to the ambassador.[/QUOTE] L'Etranger is actually more useful than the Ambassador, even if you are consistent at headshotting. The only reason you don't see it used more often is because the general masses assume that it's not useful for killing due to it's damage penalty, but completely miss how ridiculous the upsides are from a passive standpoint. Diamondback is easily better than any other revolver at the moment though and merits it's competitive banning, glitch or no glitch. I'm honestly surprised that it's not used more often in pubs because it takes very little to be able to spam crits everywhere.

Yeah, the extended cloak duration on l'etranger is surprisingly good.

I use the L'etranger cause I am bad at Spy and have to rely on my Dead Ringer to save me about %85 of the time, which means I just walk back while shooting at my closest enemy then puss away with my Dead Ringer as soon as it is full. It works, too. :v:

Maybe its just me but I find stock-invi watch spy to be unplayable without the L'etranger.

I didn't realize that the L'Etranger cloak duration bonus was passive for the longest time. You can stay invis practically forever, and it only takes one shot to get you enough cloak to dip away again.

I found it absolutely essential with the old Cloak and Dagger. After its last buff, though, I feel I can use it with any gun, although L'etranger still helps a lot, especially on longer maps or ones without many ammo packs.