Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

[QUOTE=EArkham;49928471]I've pretty much been getting contracts non-stop since around #22. Just finished #30 and 2 more dropped immediately after, heh. It's probably buggy as hell to do that, but non-stop contracts are also incredibly fun (except for spy contracts because I'm a pretty bad spy and spawn wallhacks don't help with that). Really didn't like the way Tough Break started off with only two contracts appearing at unpredictable and/or unreliable times. I hope in the future they either 1) do two contracts a week but at predictable/reliable times (ala Gun Mettle) or 2) non-stop contracts, constantly; you'd always get a new one until the end of the event. Both would be awesome.[/QUOTE] Just curious... did you get reward drops for Contract #27 and upwards? 'Cause if you did, then damn, people that had like 40+ due to a glitch had so many more chances for a better drop worth something on the Market. Especially now that skin prices have gone up again due to the Stat Clock Tool and trading up for non-Case stranges.

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49929159]that or stress tests that get progressively longer.[/QUOTE] Week long Stress Test :v:

I wouldn't mind a comp stress test that never end, if you know what i'm saying.

Honestly I hope Valve would move to open beta soon, with the amount of passes they have they don't have people constantly queing up and the people would be the same people over and over, not providing very good data or results, especially with mostly competetive players and item creators

[QUOTE=Cornish;49930207]Honestly I hope Valve would move to open beta soon, with the amount of passes they have they don't have people constantly queing up and the people would be the same people over and over, not providing very good data or results, especially with mostly competetive players and item creators[/QUOTE] I get the feeling the stress test is more for server load and technical things rather than the actual matchmaking side of things. See: How people have had games where they were stuck in spawn and had to conga around.

[QUOTE=Stric_Matic;49929444]Just curious... did you get reward drops for Contract #27 and upwards? 'Cause if you did, then damn, people that had like 40+ due to a glitch had so many more chances for a better drop worth something on the Market. Especially now that skin prices have gone up again due to the Stat Clock Tool and trading up for non-Case stranges.[/QUOTE] Yup, sure did. Was a mix of skins and cases (I prefer cases personally, fwiw). [Edit] Specifically, it was a BS Dressed to Kill Minigun, FT Dressed to Kill Knife, BS Dressed to Kill Medigun, Pyroland Case for 27-30. I haven't finished 31 & 32 yet.

Stress test WHEN

[QUOTE=Jetamo;49930626]I get the feeling the stress test is more for server load and technical things rather than the actual matchmaking side of things. See: How people have had games where they were stuck in spawn and had to conga around.[/QUOTE] Well, that [I]is[/I] the entire point of stress tests generally.

[QUOTE=gigazelle;49931345]Well, that [I]is[/I] the entire point of stress tests generally.[/QUOTE] Yes, I was merely mentioning it for people who might be mistaken about the intention of the stress tests.

Sideshow talkin' clever things, in case someone didn't see it. I hope that this will somehow affect community competitive rules. [video]https://youtu.be/cGfgCE1GXcw[/video]

Valve should do another ARG for TF2, i really like being in a ARG.

[QUOTE=kos8bit;49932851]Sideshow talkin' clever things, in case someone didn't see it. I hope that this will somehow affect community competitive rules. [video]https://youtu.be/cGfgCE1GXcw[/video][/QUOTE] It weirds me the hell out when he calls all classes "it" instead of "he."

[QUOTE=kos8bit;49932851]Sideshow talkin' clever things, in case someone didn't see it. I hope that this will somehow affect community competitive rules. [video]https://youtu.be/cGfgCE1GXcw[/video][/QUOTE] This generally makes sense, but an addendum: he completely forgoes the fact that the Demoman is a defensive class, too, and much of the 6v6 meta is built around him. If your goal is to make games as "fast" as possible, you don't want sticky traps around. Obviously, Heavy and Engineer slow down the game quite a lot more than the Demoman, but he absolutely does as well. So if you're experimenting with what classes and items to use it's important to remember that the meta as it is currently is almost completely arbitrary, and Demoman just happened to be lucky and have his best options right there in his stock weapons. Heavy and Engineer never really had that luxury, so are delegated a "boring" reputation while Demoman has a negative effect on gamespeed himself from the get-go.

[QUOTE=Tinker;49933758]This generally makes sense, but an addendum: he completely forgoes the fact that the Demoman is a defensive class, too, and much of the 6v6 meta is built around him. If your goal is to make games as "fast" as possible, you don't want sticky traps around. Obviously, Heavy and Engineer slow down the game quite a lot more than the Demoman, but he absolutely does as well. So if you're experimenting with what classes and items to use it's important to remember that the meta as it is currently is almost completely arbitrary, and Demoman just happened to be lucky and have his best options right there in his stock weapons. Heavy and Engineer never really had that luxury, so are delegated a "boring" reputation while Demoman has a negative effect on gamespeed himself from the get-go.[/QUOTE] There's a stark difference though. Engineer and Heavy are powerful defensive classes because they have a persistent presence and tankiness to them that prevents you from waltzing in to disarm them. Demoman instead has the opposite. His defensive capabilities are limited to that 1-time trap and then exclusively with active combat. If you can fake him out, disarm the trap by blasting them away or destroying them, or simply slip past it, he loses that defensive capability as he now has to fight off an assailant with a weapon kit that's deliberately designed to be weak in close proximity -- or at the very least incredibly risky. Of course if you give him the space to set up again, he'll have that defensive presence again. One of Demoman's roles is to be the damage dealer and he has the tools necessary to do that exceptionally well. He just also happens to have tools that let him be defensive if the situation calls for it. His defensive tool isn't too different from other ambush situations. Players will instinctively check the surroundings to ensure that they aren't going to die to a surprise attack. The only thing Demoman has going for him in those situations is obviously his raw damage, but also that the projectiles can be masked more easily than a person's body. If he loses line of sight on the trap, he only has intuition to rely on for trying to snare anyone. Would the meta change if Demomen were relegated to using the Quickiebomb Launcher only so that traps were no longer a thing? Most definitely. For one, players would have a lot more flexibility to try to jump a Demoman that's under duress as he'd be incapable of covering entrances to bide his time until reinforcements come through. Additionally one of the most dreadful situations to be in is to have to park your ass on last point so that the Scouts cannot fast-cap it. The Demoman has a tool that allows more flexibility on the defender's part that lets them push back and keep the game from becoming a boring standoff with at least 1 person standing in a very vulnerable position. [i]Speed[/i] isn't exactly what people want to see. What they want to see is a respectable [i]pace[/i]. Respawn waves are an example of pacing that make the game feel like it functions in disjointed waves while still retaining that feel of sameness from before those players had died. If you were to strip teams of all stalling-related tools, the game's pacing would become more similar to that of a steamroller as there would be very little to put a stop to a strong team with good momentum from losing any of that momentum. It is actually quite comical since Valve specifically designed respawn waves in such a way that the defending team will always be at a disadvantage and how stalemates are deeming everyone as losers. Nonetheless, giving the team with the disadvantage the ability to mitigate losses and hold their ground a bit is still conducive to pacing.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49934033] [i]Speed[/i] isn't exactly what people want to see. What they want to see is a respectable [i]pace[/i]. Respawn waves are an example of pacing that make the game feel like it functions in disjointed waves while still retaining that feel of sameness from before those players had died. If you were to strip teams of all stalling-related tools, the game's pacing would become more similar to that of a steamroller as there would be very little to put a stop to a strong team with good momentum from losing any of that momentum. It is actually quite comical since Valve specifically designed respawn waves in such a way that the defending team will always be at a disadvantage and how stalemates are deeming everyone as losers. Nonetheless, giving the team with the disadvantage the ability to mitigate losses and hold their ground a bit is still conducive to pacing.[/QUOTE] Yeah, exactly - there's a difference there. Sideshow, in that video, talks about how people dislike playing against the Heavy because it'd slow the game down, which is an awkward argument. A defensive presence isn't necessarily bad - imagine the 6v6 game without a Demoman, but a third Soldier instead. It'd be over ridiculously fast on a good push. Similarly, imagine the game with a second Demoman instead of a Scout or Soldier: it'd become a much more defensive game as there is way more area denial possible (which is the reason he was relegated to only having a solo spot on the team). I just mean to say that the arguments against Heavies (and to a lesser extent Engineers) are kind of tricky to hold, because the competitive community themselves chose to have that Demoman spot in there, and put class limits in there - and then balanced the item whitelists around that meta. What if the initial meta had become five Soldiers and a Medic? Would people run all different banners? It's pretty arbitrary, either way.

[QUOTE=Tinker;49934105]I just mean to say that the arguments against Heavies (and to a lesser extent Engineers) are kind of tricky to hold, because the competitive community themselves chose to have that Demoman spot in there, and put class limits in there - and then balanced the item whitelists around that meta. What if the initial meta had become five Soldiers and a Medic? Would people run all different banners? It's pretty arbitrary, either way.[/QUOTE] Believe it or not, the meta would form to be very similar to what we have now. You'd have the mobile players taking advantage of their superior mobility trying to cover the flanks but otherwise functioning independently and stopping by the medic for a buff before running off. Most definitely these would be running with Gunboats. You'd have the anchored player that is dedicated to ensuring that the medic combo is safely building up an ubercharge maintaining a perimeter while being second-in-line for receiving heals themselves. Then of course you have the pocket and medic themselves. The only big change is that Soldier isn't designed to be a powerhouse damage dealer like the Demoman is, so a 5-soldier team wouldn't be able to replicate that exactly and would instead either run with 2 anchors or have players running with banners to boost the team's collective pushes with ubercharge. This sort of thing is even true in [i]other games[/i] that have a significant emphasis on a healer class's stalemate-breaking ability. I can personally testify for how the GG2's meta formed to having a healer, a pocket tank, an anchor doing whatever the map objective calls for (defensive measures or sticking nearby the combo), and a runner functioning as a roamer.

I am probably REALLY late, but I don't remember anyone talking about the new Passtime first person animations that have been added; when some classes catch the ball, they do a little animation: The Scout spins it on his finger; The Demo just sorta slams his hand against it; The Engineer turns a knob on it, and pushes the knob in; The Heavy points at it and taunts as if someone were in front of him; The other classes just catch it. [sp]but im probably reeeaaalllyy late[/sp]

just a thought but maybe the lunatic leathers could fit as an engi jacket

Better yet, why not just add some of the other items on the workshop instead of repurposing every item in the game to be multi/all-class

[QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;49935630]Better yet, why not just add some of the other items on the workshop instead of repurposing every item in the game to be multi/all-class[/QUOTE] Because valve doesn't do that enough. This is currently the best means of getting 'new' cosmetics.

There are currently a total of 1225 cosmetic items. I'd rather they work on performance first.

[QUOTE=gaben's nut;49935877]There are currently a total of 1225 cosmetic items. I'd rather they work on performance first.[/QUOTE] but like 30% of the cosmetics are medals that no one ever uses because is mostly a waste of a slot.

They really should make some kind of medal slot, for medals only, and have them stack up smaller if you have multiple. [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/General_Henry_Shelton,_official_portrait_2.jpg[/t]

It'd be nice if all the medals had a style that made them compatible with jackets. They all clip really badly so I never wear mine.

Or just make the canteen slot also accept medals. That should not cause any issues on paper, since the number of maximum edicts at once per player would not increase.

rename the slot to "misc/action" or something

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;49937361]It wouldn't make sense since that slot is called "action" What if I want to play MvM to its full extent and also show off my mvm-grinder pride medals[/QUOTE] So give all medal slot items a simple noisemaker property. Not like the annoying Halloween stuff, but more like the duck token "quack." Only for medals, it'd be a pleasant "Duh DAAAH". Or just dupe the current class' "Go, go, go!" voice command.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;49937361]It wouldn't make sense since that slot is called "action" What if I want to play MvM to its full extent and also show off my mvm-grinder pride medals[/QUOTE] Since 2 updates ago the canteen is now a stock item and forced like the spell book/ manngrapple anyway so it wouldn't even be possible regardless

[QUOTE=Freeze;49937379]rename the slot to "misc/action" or something[/QUOTE] You could rename it to "Accessory" since things in the medal slot vary from badges to books

Just update medals to display an action such as a pointing taunt or just create a little shine of light on your chest and a twinkle sound, now medals are also an action item just like a noisemaker or a duck journal congrats Honestly the duck journal is more or less just a glorified badge nowadays anyways, if it can be considered an action item then any badge should be