Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

Splendid + eyelander masterrace.

[QUOTE=Exhale;49987225]Splendid + eyelander masterrace.[/QUOTE] I prefered demoknight with an a[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10tiWNnY3jA"]ctual skill ceiling,[/URL] but valve caters to casuals so instead of embracing the skillfull aspects of demoknight, they just shat on the entire subclass because noone could bother to listen for obvious charge sounds and learn how to dodge. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Oizen;49987195]As a shield that gives you 100% control of your charge? I'd still use it over the other shields, but Demoknight as a whole is more of a joke class.[/QUOTE] In an ideally balanced game nothing should be considered a joke, nothing should ever be made terrible because you find it hard to play against, reworking something to be both viable and counterable is one thing, killing a weapon and the playstyle with it is not good balance.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49987249]I prefered demoknight with an a[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10tiWNnY3jA"]ctual skill ceiling,[/URL] [/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=Oizen;49987195]As a shield that gives you 100% control of your charge? I'd still use it over the other shields, but Demoknight as a whole is more of a joke class.[/QUOTE] In an ideally balanced game nothing should be considered a joke, nothing should ever be made terrible because you find it hard to play against, reworking something to be both viable and countering is one thing, killing a weapon and the playstyle with it is not good balance. I find sniper a pain in the ass to fight against, they can instakill you from a mile away, but if sniper got nerfed as hard as demoknight I wouldn't be like "lol they were annoying good riddance" like the rest of the tf2 community, I would fight fr the class to be viable even though I hate it, because I know people who have put time and effort into it. No playstyle should be a complete joke if played right. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=pepetoads;49987274]lol[/QUOTE] If you disagree could you actually have a point to make or some facts, logic or an actual argument to back up why you disagree or is that too much to ask of you?

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49987249]I prefered demoknight with an a[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10tiWNnY3jA"]ctual skill ceiling,[/URL] but valve caters to casuals so instead of embracing the skillfull aspects of demoknight, they just shat on the entire subclass because noone could bother to listen for obvious charge sounds and learn how to dodge. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] In an ideally balanced game nothing should be considered a joke, nothing should ever be made terrible because you find it hard to play against, reworking something to be both viable and counterable is one thing, killing a weapon and the playstyle with it is not good balance.[/QUOTE] Well, matchmaking is there as a basis for balancing so I wouldn't be surprised to see some more sensible tweaks to demoknight. also that compilation video's awesome.

[QUOTE=Dazzgrace;49987311]Well, matchmaking is there as a basis for balancing so I wouldn't be surprised to see some more sensible tweaks to demoknight. also that compilation video's awesome.[/QUOTE] The guy who made it taught me how to trimp, with the tide turner and claid nerfs most of that is impossible now. I would hope so, hopefully with some core buffs to spy and pyro and some nerfs to crit o cola and snipers backpacks.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49987249]I prefered demoknight with an a[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10tiWNnY3jA"]ctual skill ceiling,[/URL] but valve caters to casuals so instead of embracing the skillfull aspects of demoknight, they just shat on the entire subclass because noone could bother to listen for obvious charge sounds and learn how to dodge. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] In an ideally balanced game nothing should be considered a joke, nothing should ever be made terrible because you find it hard to play against, reworking something to be both viable and countering is one thing, killing a weapon and the playstyle with it is not good balance.[/QUOTE] Its not really that hard to fight against, its considered a joke class because its a flat downgrade to this in literally every aspect: [img]http://i.cubeupload.com/4urrs9.png[/img] Yeah I guess pubs have a hard time killing Demoknight, but if you fight good players you're only going to lose. If you want a demoman with a skill ceiling, use the sticky bomb launcher.

[QUOTE=Oizen;49987330]Its not really that hard to fight against, its considered a joke class because its a flat downgrade to this in literally every aspect:[/QUOTE] And spies a straight downgrade to sniper in 90% of situations, but I would rather buff spy to be a more viable option than to say "fuck it snipers better, screw anyone who likes spy" [QUOTE=Oizen;49987330][img]http://i.cubeupload.com/4urrs9.png[/img] Yeah I guess pubs have a hard time killing Demoknight, but if you fight good players you're only going to lose. If you want a demoman with a skill ceiling, use the sticky bomb launcher.[/QUOTE] I find pipes far more skillful and rewarding since you have to actually aim with them and you have a far less forgiving clipsize, its why i preferred the mobile demoknight subclass over sticky demo all the tough break did was make me run sticky jumper instead, also if Tide Turner wasnt killed in tough break now would be the perfect time where knight could have shined, since matchmaking has no limits you can run a sticky demo and perhaps a demoknight in the place of a roamer soldier.

Looks like a schema update just went through fixing some comp bugs, the invisible round timer bug and people getting crashes related to custom HUDs.

[url=http://store.steampowered.com/news/20946/]Small update:[/url] [QUOTE=Valve]- Fixed bugs for the TF2 Competitive Mode beta - For more information on how you can participate in testing, please visit [url]https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tfcompetitive[/url] - Fixed client crash related to custom HUDs - Fixed round timer not being displayed outside of competitive mode[/QUOTE] [editline]March 22, 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=JasperDx17;49987378]Looks like a schema update just went through fixing some comp bugs, the invisible round timer bug and people getting crashes related to custom HUDs.[/QUOTE] Aw hell, every time. I don't know why I even bother making my fancy posts with links and stuff.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49987348]And spies a straight downgrade to sniper in 90% of situations, but I would rather buff spy to be a more viable option than to say "fuck it snipers better, screw anyone who likes spy"[/QUOTE] You can't buff to make Spy able to counter team communication. It's the only reason why Spy isn't really viable in competitive.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49987348]And spies a straight downgrade to sniper, I would rather buff spy to be a more viable option than to say "fuck it snipers better, fuck anyone who likes spy"[/QUOTE] In order There are still instances in which Spy is superior to sniper, Having a spy run through an engy nest with his sapper so Soldiers and demos can go to town is still a fairly effective strategy. In addition to Spy being the best for calling out positions. and Spy is an entirely separate class, Demoknight is just an awkward subclass that appeared during the Demoman update, that willingly puts away Demoman's well designed Primary and Secondary weapon for something thats significantly worse, while stock Spy is just flawed from the start. You're giving up your Stickies, and potentially even your Pipes just so you can press M2 to get free melee crits. You literally just charge at people who can shoot you anyway, while you just swing your sword around hoping for a hit. Melee in tf2 is not viable. [QUOTE=poptart TF2;49987348] I find pipes far more skillful and rewarding since you have to actually aim with them and you have a far less forgiving clipsize, its why i preferred the mobile demoknight subclass over sticky demo all the tough break did was make me run sticky jumper instead, also if Tide Turner wasnt killed in tough break now would be the perfect time where knight could have shined, since matchmaking has no limits you can run a sticky demo and perhaps a demoknight in the place of a roamer soldier.[/QUOTE] Knowing how and when to sticky trap, along with the ability to deny areas to the enemy team is a skill you're seriously underestimating.

[QUOTE=X marks it;49987391]You can't buff to make Spy able to counter team communication. It's the only reason why Spy isn't really valuable in competitive.[/QUOTE] You can try at least, it makes more sense than giving spy the tide turner treatment and just nerfing him a ton because snipers better anyway who cares. Nerfing the razorback, jarate, and mad milk. Cloak flicker now only applies at a close to mid range and only when the damage taken is above say 15 damage. decreasing decloak sounds of non DR watches. Fix numerous disguise killing bugs giving spy 150 health so he can maybe survive after a pick "dead ringer gets a 25 health penalty", medic movespeed, a mobility unlock, that would give the spy better angles to surprise the enemy rework the sapper to be a more viable team support tool in addition to a sentry disabler, personally I think something like a heartbeat sensor/ radar thing would work and fit spies theme. Give spy more options in general, perhaps a smoke grenade to block sightlines, or a dart gun that marks people for death, etc. [editline]23rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Oizen;49987424]In order There are still instances in which Spy is superior to sniper, Having a spy run through an engy nest with his sapper so Soldiers and demos can go to town is still a fairly effective strategy. In addition to Spy being the best for calling out positions. and Spy is an entirely separate class, Demoknight is just an awkward subclass that appeared during the Demoman update, that willingly puts away Demoman's well designed Primary and Secondary weapon for something thats significantly worse, while stock Spy is just flawed from the start. You're giving up your Stickies, and potentially even your Pipes just so you can press M2 to get free melee crits. You literally just charge at people who can shoot you anyway, while you just swing your sword around hoping for a hit. Melee in tf2 is not viable. Knowing how and when to sticky trap, along with the ability to deny areas to the enemy team is a skill you're seriously underestimating.[/QUOTE] You act like just because I like demoknight I never use stickies, I do and its not that difficult. When playing against players who actually have good positioning you have to time your charge well too if you want to be able to get a pick with it. Of course now even if the demoknight does everything right he still wont get the pick because minicrits are useless. But a pissing contest of whatever is more skillfull doesn't accomplish anything in an environment where there is nothing stopping you from running both stickies and a knight, why should knight not be a viable option?

[QUOTE=Oizen;49986557] If you want to talk nerfed to oblivion, Baby Face blaster is where its at. Slight gravity damage completely drains your meter with that weapon.[/QUOTE] ...Or the Axtinguisher. Takes years to swing the weapon. It is almost as bad as the SOAS now imo.

[QUOTE=_Dalek;49987518]...Or the Axtinguisher. Takes years to swing the weapon. It is almost as bad as the SOAS now imo.[/QUOTE] Soas would actually be better thhan axt if it was on pyro. Kind of funny when you think about it.

If they're going to push 6v6s and not bother with highlander, the very least they could do is rebalance the game so that every class is around the Engineer in power so that we see more than just Scout and Medic. If done properly, you'd actually have something more similar to 2007 TF2 in terms of killpower and remove the powercreep that has happened over the years as weapons designed to counter weaknesses pile up. Am I suggesting giving Spy hand cannons or melee butterknife damage buffs to make him more viable? Certainly not. They can buff other aspects of classes without making everyone a death machine. For example, they could emphasize the Spy's cloaking watch further by making him have a speed boost while invisible. Subtle buffs to emphasize niches without focusing on damage could be do wonders for the game.

[QUOTE=MarioMaster2008;49987380][url=]Small update:[/url][/QUOTE] seems a bit weird how valve broke the default hud with something as necessary as the timer, 'least it's fixed now also, that doesn't link to anything :P

[QUOTE=RedDagger;49987615]seems a bit weird how valve broke the default hud with something as necessary as the timer, 'least it's fixed now also, that doesn't link to anything :P[/QUOTE] It does now, thanks. Knew I forgot something.

Does anyone have a matchmaking pass? I just got my pc back and I want to be competitive once more.

[QUOTE=The Duke;49987609]If they're going to push 6v6s and not bother with highlander, the very least they could do is rebalance the game so that every class is around the Engineer in power so that we see more than just Scout and Medic. If done properly, you'd actually have something more similar to 2007 TF2 in terms of killpower and remove the powercreep that has happened over the years as weapons designed to counter weaknesses pile up. Am I suggesting giving Spy hand cannons or melee butterknife damage buffs to make him more viable? Certainly not. They can buff other aspects of classes without making everyone a death machine. For example, they could emphasize the Spy's cloaking watch further by making him have a speed boost while invisible. Subtle buffs to emphasize niches without focusing on damage could be do wonders for the game.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure most comp players would throw a huge fit if Scout or Soldier was nerfed, I mean they lost their shit over Demoman already.

[QUOTE=The Duke;49987609]If they're going to push 6v6s and not bother with highlander, the very least they could do is rebalance the game so that every class is around the Engineer in power so that we see more than just Scout and Medic. If done properly, you'd actually have something more similar to 2007 TF2 in terms of killpower and remove the powercreep that has happened over the years as weapons designed to counter weaknesses pile up. [/QUOTE] I imagine we'll get highlander (or if not that exact format then some format with a larger number of players that are closer to pubs) but they are just focusing on 6s for the beta since there are smaller numbers of players in the beta.

Like I said, good chance they're gonna use 6v6 as a format to balance weapons around.

[QUOTE=Dazzgrace;49990602]Like I said, good chance they're gonna use 6v6 as a format to balance weapons around.[/QUOTE] in theory it sounds amazing in practice they're just gonna BFBize everything (IF they even bother making changes)

I'm going to come out and say it: so far, matchmaking has been a big disappointment for me.

I'm more disappointed that we've managed to stress test the servers 9 times, and the only real changes we've seen have been hud elements. If anyone's going to take this seriously, they're going to have to actually balance the game competitively, and not around pubs.

I'm pretty happy with it for what it is so far. There's still a lot of bugs and annoyances like how people who solo queue are just as likely as everyone else to be matched against premades, but I still find it fun. I've never really played organized matches before so this new dimension of teamwork really makes the game more fun, even if toxic players exist.

[QUOTE=Oizen;49991115]I'm more disappointed that we've managed to stress test the servers 9 times, and the only real changes we've seen have been hud elements. If anyone's going to take this seriously, they're going to have to actually balance the game competitively, and not around pubs.[/QUOTE] stress tests arent based around weapon balance dude i'm sure when it's fully in beta we'll get normal updates that balance weapons like counter-strike does.

[QUOTE=Oizen;49991115]I'm more disappointed that we've managed to stress test the servers 9 times, and the only real changes we've seen have been hud elements. If anyone's going to take this seriously, they're going to have to actually balance the game competitively, and not around pubs.[/QUOTE] You know the point of a stress test is for them to get their backend working correctly right

Ok so a big problem is ranking up, i've played about 15 games and i'm still fresh meat, valve plz fix.

[QUOTE=cha0s;49991189]Ok so a big problem is ranking up, i've played about 15 games and i'm still fresh meat, valve plz fix.[/QUOTE] Im at around 70 games and only just about to rank up to troublemaker. Just kill me.