Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

I don't think there's anything to change on the current rate of rank up/down. As the matchmaking opens to public, the ranks will be much-much more spread out.

[QUOTE=Oizen;49990384]Pretty sure most comp players would throw a huge fit if Scout or Soldier was nerfed, I mean they lost their shit over Demoman already.[/QUOTE] If the following weapons were nerfed (with examples as follows) : -Atomizer (perhaps 5hp lost on each mid-air jump, so it's not a flat upgrade if you never melee) -Sandman (remove stun, make it mark for death for the same duration as a stun and make the flying guillotine crit on minicrits to compensate for the loss of stun) -Mad Milk (lower health gained) -Soda Popper (heavily nerf damage output) -Crit-A-Cola (lower upsides) -Battalion's Backup (remove HP bonus, give different upside bonus such as faster rage gain) -Black Box (make it gain HP on kill rather than on hit, as Black Box + Concheror is ridiculous even though both are relatively fine by themselves, Black Box + Gunboats + Escape Plan is also toxic) -Escape Plan (tone down the speed boost at low health, Disciplinary Action should be absolutely the best melee Soldier has because it's the only one that promotes cooperation) -Air Strike (make it either have a smaller clip and less harsh downsides or make it work more poorly in the air, Kritz + Air Strike is absolutely broken at the moment) -Beggar's Bazooka (make rockets deal less damage, RNG spam should not be this rewarding) They wouldn't take much of an issue since most of these are usually either banned outright or are only a power creep in a non-coordinated environment (which will be most pubs and MM matches even though MM will be at least a bit organized). Soldier's primaries, secondaries and melees should revolve around their vanilla equivalents for utility, he doesn't need direct nerfs to his base design to achieve this. Scout, on the other hand, probably deserves to be nerfed even further although balancing around vanilla would be reasonable to most people. The reason that they lost their shit over Demoman was because Valve actually did overnerf it before it was reversed. You could walk up to winbombers as a lightclass and melee them to death before they could kill you [i]and[/i] this was at the same time that the Short Circuit was an overpowered mess. If they nerf stickies so that they do normal damage to players but have legitimate ramp up to discourage winbombing, the demoman would be a more balanced class, especially if grenades were boosted a bit to compensate.

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49991134]stress tests arent based around weapon balance dude i'm sure when it's fully in beta we'll get normal updates that balance weapons like counter-strike does.[/QUOTE] Do we even have a promise that they'll do this though? This is the same company that made beta maps such as rd_asteroid and pl_cactuscanyon which are still in "beta", or alternatively somehow deemed mannpower good enough to be "officially released". I just cant take valve seriously when they use the word beta anymore. 9 public stress tests plus god knows how long they've been working on it before hand just to make sure it runs is pretty concerning. Entire thing seems to be moving at a snails pace. [QUOTE=The Duke;49991759]If the following weapons were nerfed (with examples as follows) : -Atomizer (perhaps 5hp lost on each mid-air jump, so it's not a flat upgrade if you never melee) -Sandman (remove stun, make it mark for death for the same duration as a stun and make the flying guillotine crit on minicrits to compensate for the loss of stun) -Mad Milk (lower health gained) -Soda Popper (heavily nerf damage output) -Crit-A-Cola (lower upsides) -Battalion's Backup (remove HP bonus, give different upside bonus such as faster rage gain) -Black Box (make it gain HP on kill rather than on hit, as Black Box + Concheror is ridiculous even though both are relatively fine by themselves, Black Box + Gunboats + Escape Plan is also toxic) -Escape Plan (tone down the speed boost at low health, Disciplinary Action should be absolutely the best melee Soldier has because it's the only one that promotes cooperation) -Air Strike (make it either have a smaller clip and less harsh downsides or make it work more poorly in the air, Kritz + Air Strike is absolutely broken at the moment) -Beggar's Bazooka (make rockets deal less damage, RNG spam should not be this rewarding) They wouldn't take much of an issue since most of these are usually either banned outright or are only a power creep in a non-coordinated environment (which will be most pubs and MM matches even though MM will be at least a bit organized). Soldier's primaries, secondaries and melees should revolve around their vanilla equivalents for utility, he doesn't need direct nerfs to his base design to achieve this. Scout, on the other hand, probably deserves to be nerfed even further although balancing around vanilla would be reasonable to most people. The reason that they lost their shit over Demoman was because Valve actually did overnerf it before it was reversed. You could walk up to winbombers as a lightclass and melee them to death before they could kill you [i]and[/i] this was at the same time that the Short Circuit was an overpowered mess. If they nerf stickies so that they do normal damage to players but have legitimate ramp up to discourage winbombing, the demoman would be a more balanced class, especially if grenades were boosted a bit to compensate.[/QUOTE] Scout Soldier and Demoman are at a base designed better than the rest of the classes. Even without their unbalanced unlocks, they're going to outperform the other classes. I hate the idea of balancing around unlocks, when even Stock Spy or Pyro are significantly worse than Stock Soldier/Scout/Demoman. The nerf I was referring to was actually the nerf that originally killed demo man back in gun mettle, and then came back in a lesser form the Christmas after gun mettle. The game needs buffs that affect the characters at the core, like how Heavy is now significantly worse because of that stupid damage ramp up. And another good thing to note is Tf2 is balanced around pub play. Any weapon that has the stat "No random Critical hits" as its main drawback is now a flat upgrade when it comes to Matchmaking. Thats kinda the main reason the Quickfix is getting as rediculous as it is.

So I'm kinda really very far behind on the news and updates and whatnot. Are they just giving the Beta Passes out to anyone through random drops?

[QUOTE=BanthaFodder;49991860]So I'm kinda really very far behind on the news and updates and whatnot. Are they just giving the Beta Passes out to anyone through random drops?[/QUOTE] If you get a beta pass, you also can generate gift beta passes to give to friends. They don't drop like regular items. They're increasing exponentially.

How would they even make Spy viable in competetive? I mean, even decent spies in pubs can be countered easily, and in comp there's communication, meaning that a spy is pretty much disabled and can't do shit.

[QUOTE=Gunsexual;49992028]How would they even make Spy viable in competetive? I mean, even decent spies in pubs can be countered easily, and in comp there's communication, meaning that a spy is pretty much disabled and can't do shit.[/QUOTE] Valve might actually have to come to terms with the idea that stealth mechanics in a multiplayer FPS is retarded and that their three golden boys of mobile damage are too good.

[QUOTE=Gunsexual;49992028]How would they even make Spy viable in competetive? I mean, even decent spies in pubs can be countered easily, and in comp there's communication, meaning that a spy is pretty much disabled and can't do shit.[/QUOTE] Spy is viable. Spy shouldn't be viable all the time, because that defeats the purpose of the spy. Once the enemy knows there's a spy, you're pretty fucked - especially when they have half decent communication. It's good for picks and stuff. I say this as a spy main so I have nothing against the class but I seriously don't think there needs to be any changes regarding this.

[QUOTE=br0ken_;49992178]Spy is viable. Spy shouldn't be viable all the time, because that defeats the purpose of the spy. Once the enemy knows there's a spy, you're pretty fucked - especially when they have half decent communication. It's good for picks and stuff. I say this as a spy main so I have nothing against the class but I seriously don't think there needs to be any changes regarding this.[/QUOTE] Except he's not really good at picks. If you're going for picks, Sniper is the best off class and trumps spy at everything. Sniper can get his picks at a distance and stay protected by his team. Spy has to awkwardly chase after classes who move faster than him, and then most likely die after one stab. Though I think what people are saying, is they hate the fact that Demo/Soldier/Scout are ALWAYS viable, and other classes are very situational and practically inferior to the big 3.

[QUOTE=_Pai;49991054]I'm going to come out and say it: so far, matchmaking has been a big disappointment for me.[/QUOTE] Dear God, it's not even released yet

[QUOTE=kos8bit;49992279]Dear God, it's not even released yet[/QUOTE] It has not yet been released, but it's a disappointment already, make conclusions Valve and change things up.

[QUOTE=Oizen;49991856]Scout Soldier and Demoman are at a base designed better than the rest of the classes. Even without their unbalanced unlocks, they're going to outperform the other classes.[/Quote] This is mostly true, but with some tweaks, the other classes could be made up to par without just ticking up damage output. Engineer would be the most difficult to do so without killing CTF, however. [QUOTE=Oizen;49991856]I hate the idea of balancing around unlocks, when even Stock Spy or Pyro are significantly worse than Stock Soldier/Scout/Demoman.[/Quote] I entirely agree, hence why I said that Soldier and Scout shouldn't have anything that is guaranteed superior to vanilla. [QUOTE=Oizen;49991856]The nerf I was referring to was actually the nerf that originally killed demo man back in gun mettle, and then came back in a lesser form the Christmas after gun mettle.[/Quote] That's what I was referring to as well. [QUOTE=Oizen;49991856]The game needs buffs that affect the characters at the core, like how Heavy is now significantly worse because of that stupid damage ramp up.[/Quote] Absolutely agree. [QUOTE=Oizen;49991856] Thats kinda the main reason the Quickfix is getting as ridiculous as it is.[/QUOTE] It's actually more because Medics can latch onto Scouts to run at Scout speed, so the best medigun to use when all of your offense is made of Scouts is the one gun that lets you keep up.

no. QF is dumb in MM because only a few weapons can outdamage megaheal with randomcrits off and a handful of players, making it pretty much a stock uber that charges at +25% and cant be knocked away

[QUOTE=The Duke;49992577] It's actually more because Medics can latch onto Scouts to run at Scout speed, so the best medigun to use when all of your offense is made of Scouts is the one gun that lets you keep up.[/QUOTE] Laching on to Soldiers and Demomen is where its at, you can ride their rollouts to mid faster than any scout can get you there. But the real issue is that the Quickfix is just better than stock normally, with the exception of it is crippled by instant kills, which is normally pretty significant. No random crits paired with the fact theres only 6 enemy players (so theres only 6 sources of damage to worry about) leads to it being pretty much a flat upgrade to stock. The boosted ubercharge rate, and the fact the ubercharge is always building at maximum doesn't help. Basically almost everything that normally counters QF ubers is absent in the 6s setup, so its easily arguable that QF's uber is just as useful as stocks in it. Only real threat to the QF uber is the Kritzkreig Uber, or a fully charged head shot from a sniper. You're trading vulnerability from those two things for significantly faster ubers, the ability to rollout with your teammates, and faster healing speed. The problem is I think the Quickfix is actually perfectly fine in pub play, so Im very curious to see what valve will do about it dominating MM

What did people expect from a [i]beta[/i] to be disappointed?

Got two passes, add me for them. Edit: Claimed

[QUOTE=Oizen;49992876]Laching on to Soldiers and Demomen is where its at, you can ride their rollouts to mid faster than any scout can get you there. But the real issue is that the Quickfix is just better than stock normally, with the exception of it is crippled by instant kills, which is normally pretty significant. No random crits paired with the fact theres only 6 enemy players (so theres only 6 sources of damage to worry about) leads to it being pretty much a flat upgrade to stock. The boosted ubercharge rate, and the fact the ubercharge is always building at maximum doesn't help. Basically almost everything that normally counters QF ubers is absent in the 6s setup, so its easily arguable that QF's uber is just as useful as stocks in it. Only real threat to the QF uber is the Kritzkreig Uber, or a fully charged head shot from a sniper. You're trading vulnerability from those two things for significantly faster ubers, the ability to rollout with your teammates, and faster healing speed. The problem is I think the Quickfix is actually perfectly fine in pub play, so Im very curious to see what valve will do about it dominating MM[/QUOTE] I think Valve should do Vote Weapon bans like someone could call a vote to ban X weapon OR people could search with a preset of banned weapons so they're paired with other teams that agree to those weapon bans

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;49992959]Got two passes, add me for them. Edit: Claimed[/QUOTE] Thanks Mort Stroodle for the beta pass. I'm grateful.

x-posting from the general: Decided to make a [URL="https://goo.gl/PJKKTV"]document[/URL] for exchanging competitive passes. Submit your info [URL="https://goo.gl/forms/45Mu3A7Xl7"]here[/URL]. It handles givers and getters.

[QUOTE=Dazzgrace;49990602]Like I said, good chance they're gonna use 6v6 as a format to balance weapons around.[/QUOTE] The problem is 6v6 comp matchmaking with random crits off is such a different format from a 12v12 pub with random crits on that a balanced weapon for one format may be overpowered or underpowered in the other format. I don't know what Valve is going to do to solve the issue (or if they even can really solve the issue).

[QUOTE=Fluury;49984182][url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=4389[/url] All-Father has an incoming update - a much needed one at that! The added classes to it even fit! Finally I can be gnome Engie outside halloween.[/QUOTE] [img]http://puu.sh/nRBKu/e9aac21ea7.png[/img][img]http://puu.sh/nRBHU/14bc8b4247.png[/img] That new texture looks the end of a mop stuck to their faces. It's basically just weird looking clay now. Should have just fixed the flexes and left it.

[QUOTE=LZoleee;49979021]B4nny mentioned it in one of his streams, that the TF team is worried about the game's graphics not aging too well, so they want to somewhat standardize the visuals. His example to this was ruling out dx8, but I think phong must have similar reasons.[/QUOTE] The main reason I think commands are locked in matchmaking is because valve don't want people to be unable to play because of some setting they have on so they have an extremely small whitelist of settings they allow and are adding more as time goes on. I think the best compromise they could have with this in the final version of mm would be to allow all commands but have a main menu warning come up when using a graphical config saying "we aren't responsible for your game crashing/not working if you use this". If the main concern was to standardise graphics for a stream watching perspective, then they would use a blacklist and things like zoom_sensitivity_ratio wouldn't be locked to 1. This argument doesn't work too well either, as the most watched streams that first time viewers will see should ideally be tournament streams. These should always be in max quality anyway. The most ridiculous command that's locked at the moment is mat_monitorgamma when brightness settings are allowed in almost every game ever. I guess they just forgot.

[QUOTE=Zesty McLime;49994203]The main reason I think commands are locked in matchmaking is because valve don't want people to be unable to play because of some setting they have on so they have an extremely small whitelist of settings they allow and are adding more as time goes on. I think the best compromise they could have with this in the final version of mm would be to allow all commands but have a main menu warning come up when using a graphical config saying "we aren't responsible for your game crashing/not working if you use this". If the main concern was to standardise graphics for a stream watching perspective, then they would use a blacklist and things like zoom_sensitivity_ratio wouldn't be locked to 1. This argument doesn't work too well either, as the most watched streams that first time viewers will see should ideally be tournament streams. These should always be in max quality anyway. The most ridiculous command that's locked at the moment is mat_monitorgamma when brightness settings are allowed in almost every game ever. I guess they just forgot.[/QUOTE] I was only talking about the commands that affect the visuals, and I do know as a fact that some of them were locked for the reasons I mentioned. Commands like zoom_sensitivity_ratio might have just ended up on the list by accident, like how motion blur was always forced to be on in early matchmaking. Btw, I don't think the list of forced commands is final, it's likely that they just threw together what they felt to be essential at this point.

IMO they locked the graphics settings because some of them can give an advantage. For example setting texture resolution and model detail to low can make the game much more readable; players pop more in front of less detailed backgrounds, you can see more clearly without the uber distortion overlay, etc. Or consider a demoman with higher settings putting a sticky trap inside a prop, and the prop not rendering on lower settings, letting an enemy player see the trap. Turning off ragdolls is also very helpful. With ragdolls turned on it can take maybe 10-100 ms (I'm just guessing) to visually process that the enemy is dead because they are still there in the same position for a short time; without ragdolls it's immediately obvious that the enemy is dead because they just disappear and it's a huge visual sign. Yes there is the killfeed but the player will be looking at the center of the screen and there is a difference between the body disappearing and a small killfeed notification popping up in their peripheral vision. With less visual noise it's easier and faster to read and react to situations, and I think they might also want to even this out with locking the graphics settings.

[QUOTE=printme;49994376]IMO they locked the graphics settings because some of them can give an advantage. For example setting texture resolution and model detail to low can make the game much more readable; players pop more in front of less detailed backgrounds, you can see more clearly without the uber distortion overlay, etc. Or consider a demoman with higher settings putting a sticky trap inside a prop, and the prop not rendering on lower settings, letting an enemy player see the trap. Turning off ragdolls is also very helpful. With ragdolls turned on it can take maybe 10-100 ms (I'm just guessing) to visually process that the enemy is dead because they are still there in the same position for a short time; without ragdolls it's immediately obvious that the enemy is dead because they just disappear and it's a huge visual sign. Yes there is the killfeed but the player will be looking at the center of the screen and there is a difference between the body disappearing and a small killfeed notification popping up in their peripheral vision. With less visual noise it's easier and faster to read and react to situations, and I think they might also want to even this out with locking the graphics settings.[/QUOTE] So essentially they're forcing everyone to play a slower and harder to read and react game instead of just setting these graphics to default? I mean I'm not going to say potato.cfg looks nice or anything, but a lot of people would be more interested in the plays rather than cones not rendering.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;49994162][img]http://puu.sh/nRBKu/e9aac21ea7.png[/img][img]http://puu.sh/nRBHU/14bc8b4247.png[/img] That new texture looks the end of a mop stuck to their faces. It's basically just weird looking clay now. Should have just fixed the flexes and left it.[/QUOTE] To be honest, the soldier one looks like one of those santa animatronics people have out in the Christmas season, the really bad motor ones with janky movements

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;49994162][img]http://puu.sh/nRBKu/e9aac21ea7.png[/img][img]http://puu.sh/nRBHU/14bc8b4247.png[/img] That new texture looks the end of a mop stuck to their faces. It's basically just weird looking clay now. Should have just fixed the flexes and left it.[/QUOTE] I believe he toned down the texture after that post.

[QUOTE=Oizen;49992876]Laching on to Soldiers and Demomen is where its at, you can ride their rollouts to mid faster than any scout can get you there. But the real issue is that the Quickfix is just better than stock normally, with the exception of it is crippled by instant kills, which is normally pretty significant. No random crits paired with the fact theres only 6 enemy players (so theres only 6 sources of damage to worry about) leads to it being pretty much a flat upgrade to stock. The boosted ubercharge rate, and the fact the ubercharge is always building at maximum doesn't help. Basically almost everything that normally counters QF ubers is absent in the 6s setup, so its easily arguable that QF's uber is just as useful as stocks in it. Only real threat to the QF uber is the Kritzkreig Uber, or a fully charged head shot from a sniper. You're trading vulnerability from those two things for significantly faster ubers, the ability to rollout with your teammates, and faster healing speed. [b]The problem is I think the Quickfix is actually perfectly fine in pub play, so Im very curious to see what valve will do about it dominating MM[/b][/QUOTE] Probably a nerf, something along the lines of losing all ubercharge gained when he gets hit.

The amount of hackers in matchmaking is ridiculous, Valve seriously needs to improve on VAC or let players vote-kick. I played 3 rounds in a row with hackers on the other team, it's near unplayable.

Weird thing just happened I got 12 random weapons. Anyone else seen something like this?