Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

[QUOTE=Freeze;50176794]this isn't really relevant at all but did you guys know jonesing means to be addicted or fixated on something. i always knew the general meaning but for some reason i figured it was more casual than straight up addiction. just thought that was interesting is all. maybe it's just me.[/QUOTE] Yes, I have a terrible addiction to stranges. I have every non-reskin strange weapon, look at my backpack of shame sometime. It sort of extends into a "I don't want unique weapons of any kind" thing. I bought a Collector's Cozy Camper and made a Danger Shield myself! I even bought a Vita-Saw because I figured if it's ever made strange, it'll be through a strangifier. I've been waiting 2 years for that strangifier.

i can respect that. the human brain likes seeing numbers go up, nothing wrong with that. :v: (well, mostly)

Hey why not an 80s community update? We got [B]The Iron Gauntlet[/B] [B]The Mayan Update[/B] why not?

Because fundamentally, the 80s aesthetic doesn't fit with TF2's. The new items from the future we do have aren't badly made, but they're pretty ill-fitting in the current setting and time period. We already have robots in-game, and they're quite retro-futuristic, and explorers and Mayan clothing are both from before the 60s, so they all work.

[QUOTE=G=4//\/\3!2;50176923]Hey why not an 80s community update? We got [B]The Iron Gauntlet[/B] [B]The Mayan Update[/B] why not?[/QUOTE] because valve wants to make people think they still care about the game being time correct and what-not

Honestly I find the whole Neon Laser 80's thing a little cliche at this point... I mean so many other games that have come out are sorta set around that time and I doubt valve would want to do something you can already get from other games. Personally I would like to see any future games take place around an event that only works, make sense, and exists in the Team Fortress universe

[QUOTE=Magypsy;50176941]Because fundamentally, the 80s aesthetic doesn't fit with TF2's. The new items from the future we do have aren't badly made, but they're pretty ill-fitting in the current setting and time period. We already have robots in-game, and they're quite retro-futuristic, and explorers and Mayan clothing are both from before the 60s, so they all work.[/QUOTE] Mark my words, someday when I actually have enough time I will helm a tasteful 80s update that isn't only regurgitated pink and cyan neon

[QUOTE=UndreamedBus;50177538]Honestly I find the whole Neon Laser 80's thing a little cliche at this point... I mean so many other games that have come out are sorta set around that time and I doubt valve would want to do something you can already get from other games. Personally I would like to see any future games take place around an event that only works, make sense, and exists in the Team Fortress universe[/QUOTE] The only way I could see there being a new TF game is if they remake TFC in Source 2 and rip the grenade physics straight from CS:GO

As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50177934]As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?[/QUOTE] I think, in large part, it's because the base gameplay of TF2 was already finely tweaked and not initially designed around unlockable weapons/alternative gameplay styles for classes/etc. Because the balance of the base game is as focused as it is, it makes it hard to design good unlockable weapons, and even harder to balance them. There is a reason that, prior to the balancing that started around 2013 or so, a lot of the new weapons implemented had cookie-cutter stats instead of being viable new concepts that added something new to the table. I'm not too familiar with the other games you mentioned, but I imagine that has to do with a few things, such as the games being designed at the beginning to account for viable alternate play styles and/or a smaller quantity of alternate play styles to balance for each specific niche a class offers.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50177934]As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?[/QUOTE] And yet the smite meta has been one or another form of shit for two years. I prefer tf2's balance to smite's balance by far

Well that would be rational when it comes to the introduction of new weapons and mechanics, but fine-tuning weapons and mechanics that already exist within the game should be far more plausible a task.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50177934]As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?[/QUOTE]Well right now every one at valve has been has a huge hard on for the Vive (and with a good reasons) so I honestly don't think they are working on much that isn't VR or source 2 ( most likely for VR) even if they weren't working on VR, valve really like to hold updates till they're perfect in their eyes and instead of releasing small balance updates, large big one where tons of things are changed all at once. [QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;50177746]The only way I could see there being a new TF game is if they remake TFC in Source 2 and rip the grenade physics straight from CS:GO[/QUOTE] I don't think a straight remake of TFC would be a good idea, the world of the original TFC is kinda all over the place. You have these very quake looking maps, black mesa inspired maps, and some maps that look like they should be in CS1.6 or DoD. Although Team Fortress 2 has a verity of different locations they all have a fairly consistent art style, and I feel as if TFC lacks that. On the gameplay side of things most people know Team Fortress for TF2 and I feel like a majority of people don't care about TFC or don't know it exists ( Although I would Hope the whole [B]2[/B] would tip them off) and the nature of TFC would be off putting. However this doesn't mean I don't like the concept and after all this is a remake so some of these ( and unfortunately for lack of better words ) "problems" a large majority of Team Fortress fans would have could be changed or fixed, In fact this Idea has me super pumped for a less of a remake and more of a retelling of TFC, maybe give it a more consistent style and make it play like a mix of both TF2 and TFC, and if you go by the comics it could even be set in the 1930s and use the updated comic designs for consistency.

[QUOTE=UndreamedBus;50178151]Well right now every one at valve has been has a huge hard on for the Vive (and with a good reasons) so I honestly don't think they are working on much that isn't VR or source 2 ( most likely for VR) even if they weren't working on VR, valve really like to hold updates till they're perfect in their eyes and instead of releasing small balance updates, large big one where tons of things are changed all at once.[/quote] And that's a poor idea at this point in the game's lifespan. Who wants to endure broken weapons for three years?

I'm actually kinda baffled how this game keeps its F2P community, considering how rarely it gets updated. You'd think it would have died down to only the hardcores who have been playing for years

If people had an easy way to cash out, many would have left a long time ago.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50177934]As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?[/QUOTE] Because both those games came out less than two years ago and TF2 came out nine years ago?

[QUOTE=Zeos;50178194]I'm actually kinda baffled how this game keeps its F2P community, considering how rarely it gets updated. You'd think it would have died down to only the hardcores who have been playing for years[/QUOTE] Maybe SFM community keeps it alive, not sure any other game has a readily available way to make amateur fan films with it's resources

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50178316]Because both those games came out less than two years ago and TF2 came out nine years ago?[/QUOTE] Valve didn't release frequent balance patches even six years ago. It's still the fourth most-played game on Steam, its age is completely irrelevant.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50178082]Well that would be rational when it comes to the introduction of new weapons and mechanics, but fine-tuning weapons and mechanics that already exist within the game should be far more plausible a task.[/QUOTE] As I was alluding to, TF2's base gameplay is already tightly balanced - it makes it harder to adjust and tweak the extraneous content while still simultaneously offering something new and interesting. A lot of the time, we get concepts that are different and interesting but overpowered/underpowered (Short Circuit, Pomson, Razorback, Gunboats, Mantreads, etc), or we get something that is just barely different and plays it safe for the most part (like a lot of the Uber Update weapons in their initial state). Weapons like, say, the Base Jumper, the Buff Banner, etc that offer a new playstyle and still manage to handle tradeoffs well are pretty far and inbetween - and even then, there is contention with certain weapons like the Kritz, Jarate, Gunslinger, Wrangler, etc - but it is certainly not impossible to design concepts that are both balanced and fun. However, it probably does take a lot more of a considerable effort than other games - not that that necessarily excuses them in some instances.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50178372]Valve didn't release frequent balance patches even six years ago. It's still the fourth most-played game on Steam, its age is completely irrelevant.[/QUOTE] Smite is a recently released free-to-play moba. Killing Floor 2 is dead in the water and has been for a while - even the developers know it. Most fans of the series know it. You can't compare a recently released MOBA and a game that has been shittily dealt with since it hit EA with TF2. If frequent updates were a problem since the game started, then why is it still one of the most popular games on Steam, the biggest PC platform? Do you also complain about how early PS2/Gamecube games never got updates? No, because not every game requires weekly updates to keep them fun and interesting.

Also, Killing Floor 2's "frequent" balance patches tend to miss the mark just as much as Valve does. They keep nerfing the goddman Demolitionist for no reason.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50178424]Smite is a recently released free-to-play moba. Killing Floor 2 is dead in the water and has been for a while - even the developers know it. Most fans of the series know it. You can't compare a recently released MOBA and a game that has been shittily dealt with since it hit EA with TF2. If frequent updates were a problem since the game started, then why is it still one of the most popular games on Steam, the biggest PC platform? Do you also complain about how early PS2/Gamecube games never got updates? No, because not every game requires weekly updates to keep them fun and interesting.[/QUOTE] Not once did I say anything about being entitled to exciting new gameplay content, I'm merely commenting on how Valve's sluggish release schedule for balance patches is baffling. How are older console titles in any way analogous to a free-to-play online multiplayer game with persistent support? Console titles of yore--and even today--have intentionally limited life cycles, and thus often save major balance changes for subsequent iterations in the same series. Those same console titles you allude to would have had at least two sequels in the amount of time TF2 has been around. [QUOTE=BlindSniper17;50178415]As I was alluding to, TF2's base gameplay is already tightly balanced - it makes it harder to adjust and tweak the extraneous content while still simultaneously offering something new and interesting. A lot of the time, we get concepts that are different and interesting but overpowered/underpowered (Short Circuit, Pomson, Razorback, Gunboats, Mantreads, etc), or we get something that is just barely different and plays it safe for the most part (like a lot of the Uber Update weapons in their initial state). Weapons like, say, the Base Jumper, the Buff Banner, etc that offer a new playstyle and still manage to handle tradeoffs well are pretty far and inbetween - and even then, there is contention with certain weapons like the Kritz, Jarate, Gunslinger, Wrangler, etc - but it is certainly not impossible to design concepts that are both balanced and fun. However, it probably does take a lot more of a considerable effort than other games - not that that necessarily excuses them in some instances.[/QUOTE] I can understand that with items that have dubious or contended balance status, but items that are glaringly detrimental to the game (such as the Crit-a-Cola) can be fixed within a week.

So according to paysus L4D2 might be getting paid mods, and all I can think is "how much longer till TF2 gets this?".

pay 4.99 to get orange map packs

[IMG]http://puu.sh/orezb/8cdc61e4c1.jpg[/IMG] This was a nice surprise! Valve really seems to want to start pushing competitive and I'm really happy about that :D

As questionable as paid mods tend to be . . . I'd be down to make a TF2 derivative that retains the classes, netcode, etc but heavily retools the weapons and animations if they facilitated something like that with TF2 paid mods.

[QUOTE=cha0s;50178612]So according to paysus L4D2 might be getting paid mods, and all I can think is "how much longer till TF2 gets this?".[/QUOTE] Having paid mods for a game that came out 7 years ago and has a already strong modding community might be one of the worst ideas yet. Valve should just be happy that a game that old sales as well as it does because of the amount of free mods from the community.

[QUOTE=GuntMyFries;50178943]Having paid mods for a game that came out 7 years ago and has a already strong modding community might be one of the worst ideas yet. Valve should just be happy that a game that old sales as well as it does because of the amount of free mods from the community.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna counter this with "give me 5.00 to use this mod on sv_pure", I could see it working great if valve plays there cards right, tbh I just want paysus(es?) reanimation packs on sv_pure.

I'd honestly pay 15 bucks to play with no cosmetics on my screen. Of course that might be "pay to win" in a sense since it'd increase performance [I]significantly[/I].