Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

Valve needs to add a "toggle cosmetics" button.

[QUOTE=GuntMyFries;50178943]Having paid mods for a game that came out 7 years ago and has a already strong modding community might be one of the worst ideas yet. Valve should just be happy that a game that old sales as well as it does because of the amount of free mods from the community.[/QUOTE] "Hey Jim, turns out players absolutely HATED us invading a mod-centric community and monetizing it in the worst possible way." "Hey Bob, you know what'd be a good idea? If we tried that exact same thing to one of our games!" "Great idea! What could go wrong!"

We shouldn't have to pay for simple options like turning hats off or using a mod that fixes bugs and animations.

[QUOTE=GuntMyFries;50179227]We shouldn't have to pay for simple options like turning hats off or using a mod that fixes bugs and animations.[/QUOTE] With Valve, the phrase "Shouldn't have to pay" is not in their lexicon.

There's no way Valve's going to make paid mods a thing unless they disable sv_pure again for everybody. And if they do that I really don't see any issue with it at all. If somebody makes some content they have every right to sell it if they want to. Of course they'd have to be diligent to make sure that paid mod content isn't stolen or anything. However you're not entitled to that content for free, somebody else put work into it, if they want to make people pay to use it that's their right.

Is the nohats mod ruined by sv_pure 1?

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50179271]There's no way Valve's going to make paid mods a thing unless they disable sv_pure again for everybody. And if they do that I really don't see any issue with it at all. If somebody makes some content they have every right to sell it if they want to. Of course they'd have to be diligent to make sure that paid mod content isn't stolen or anything. However you're not entitled to that content for free, somebody else put work into it, if they want to make people pay to use it that's their right.[/QUOTE] However, any mod really worth using is one that fixes a visual bug, inconsistencies or improved animations (unless you like femscout or pointless Gamebanana reskins for some reason??). And if we had to pay for those, not only would the entire userbase be outraged, but it would kinda shit on Valve's face on the fact that you're essentially paying for bugfixes. That wouldn't be acceptable at all.

Valve is never going to add a "No cosmetics" option.

[QUOTE=Skunky;50179525]Valve is never going to add a "No cosmetics" option.[/QUOTE] You just wait until I catch that magic wish granting fish, then who's gunna look fuckin' stupid [QUOTE=austin0331;50179376]would kinda shit on Valve's face on the fact that you're essentially paying for bugfixes. That wouldn't be acceptable at all.[/QUOTE] It's a real sign of the times when some people including myself are at the point where we would shell out a few bucks to make Valve fix shit they shoulda done for free [I]SEVEN YEARS AGO[/I]

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50178424]Smite is a recently released free-to-play moba. Killing Floor 2 is dead in the water and has been for a while - even the developers know it. Most fans of the series know it. You can't compare a recently released MOBA and a game that has been shittily dealt with since it hit EA with TF2. If frequent updates were a problem since the game started, then why is it still one of the most popular games on Steam, the biggest PC platform? Do you also complain about how early PS2/Gamecube games never got updates? No, because not every game requires weekly updates to keep them fun and interesting.[/QUOTE] KF2's already dead and not even out of early access? What the hell happened to it?

[QUOTE=X_Sam;50179947]KF2's already dead and not even out of early access? What the hell happened to it?[/QUOTE] Poor design choices, straying from the original game too much, adding PvP and crafting, CS:GO tier systems and crates, I can go on

[QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;50179985]Poor design choices, straying from the original game too much, adding PvP and crafting, CS:GO tier systems and crates, I can go on[/QUOTE] [URL="http://steamcharts.com/app/232090"]It looks like it's had fairly consistent numbers after the first spate of players on release.[/URL] I don't know if you can qualify it as dead when it's never exactly maintained over a 10,000 player base in its limited lifespan. At any rate, I don't think any of the additions you've mentioned had a demonstrable impact on player retention. [QUOTE=Jetamo;50178449]Also, Killing Floor 2's "frequent" balance patches tend to miss the mark just as much as Valve does. They keep nerfing the goddman Demolitionist for no reason.[/QUOTE] At least they're missing that mark at a brisk enough pace that their data gathering and balance adjustment cycle will likely yield better results in a shorter time span. They're not going to wait three-five years before addressing obvious lapses in judgment.

[QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;50179985]Poor design choices, straying from the original game too much, adding PvP and crafting, CS:GO tier systems and crates, I can go on[/QUOTE]let's not forget the huge-ass update drought from the spring to fall of last year that basically killed all my motivation for the game

[QUOTE=cha0s;50178612]So according to paysus L4D2 might be getting paid mods, and all I can think is "how much longer till TF2 gets this?".[/QUOTE] Did some looking into this - it appears to be more of a backend change to make sure the Workshop still *supports* paid mods, but not necessarily enabling paid mods for everything. [t]http://i.imgur.com/9P6MzFu.png[/t] Sort of looks like Valve are just rolling the paid mods "system" to the Workshop/Steamworks SDK, and are letting developers decide if that's the way they want to do.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50180520] At least they're missing that mark at a brisk enough pace that their data gathering and balance adjustment cycle will likely yield better results in a shorter time span. They're not going to wait three-five years before addressing obvious lapses in judgment.[/QUOTE] There literally won't even be a KF2 in three-five years. You can doll up what you're imagining they're doing in the TWI offices all you want. [QUOTE=Doctor Hunt;50179985]Poor design choices, straying from the original game too much, adding PvP and crafting, CS:GO tier systems and crates, I can go on[/QUOTE] Can't forget to mention how they added microtransactions. In an early access game. That you pay $40 to get into. And this was before any major balance patches. Oh and it took them about a year to add 2 of the 5 upcoming perks that they promised. I love KF but god damn Tripwire makes horrible decisions, and it shows with how many people are currently leaving the company. Anyways, TF2 isn't comparable to any other game, it's its own unique situation. It's a popular, well-tuned F2P game that doesn't need weekly updates to keep players engaged. There are over 100 weapons, around 100 maps by now not counting community gamemodes, and 9 classes that have been balanced around for the past ~9 years. Just because it doesn't constantly update doesn't mean it should.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50177934]As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?[/QUOTE] Because all of the employees are working on robot dog simulator 2016.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;50179543]You just wait until I catch that magic wish granting fish, then who's gunna look fuckin' stupid[/QUOTE] I'd say the fish. Guy has supernatural powers that let him grant wishes, and he still can't manage to avoid being caught? Jeez. I mean, can't he just wish to not get caught?

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50181919]I'd say the fish. Guy has supernatural powers that let him grant wishes, and he still can't manage to avoid being caught? Jeez. I mean, can't he just wish to not get caught?[/QUOTE] That Fish hasn't been caught cause he can roll!

[QUOTE=Jetamo;50180719]Did some looking into this - it appears to be more of a backend change to make sure the Workshop still *supports* paid mods, but not necessarily enabling paid mods for everything. [t]http://i.imgur.com/9P6MzFu.png[/t] Sort of looks like Valve are just rolling the paid mods "system" to the Workshop/Steamworks SDK, and are letting developers decide if that's the way they want to do.[/QUOTE] i have steamworks access, they haven't changed this at all for like a year, nor have they announced it

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50180959]There literally won't even be a KF2 in three-five years. You can doll up what you're imagining they're doing in the TWI offices all you want. Can't forget to mention how they added microtransactions. In an early access game. That you pay $40 to get into. And this was before any major balance patches. Oh and it took them about a year to add 2 of the 5 upcoming perks that they promised. I love KF but god damn Tripwire makes horrible decisions, and it shows with how many people are currently leaving the company. Anyways, TF2 isn't comparable to any other game, it's its own unique situation. It's a popular, well-tuned F2P game that doesn't need weekly updates to keep players engaged. There are over 100 weapons, around 100 maps by now not counting community gamemodes, and 9 classes that have been balanced around for the past ~9 years. Just because it doesn't constantly update doesn't mean it should.[/QUOTE] I'm not inflating Tripwire's accomplishments, nor am I absolving them of fault when it comes to their unsound decisions. However, things aren't black and white, and when they do something better than the TF2 team, I'm within my right to highlight that. Moreover, Valve likewise makes plenty of horrible decisions, many of which impact TF2's frustration-to-enjoyment ratio. My plea for game balancing is born from this, not any sense of misdirected entitlement. Please don't make a straw man and claim that I'm alleging the game requires frequent updates to foster player retention. Well-tuned? Really? [I]Really?[/I] Of all the adjectives you could use to describe the game, I think that would be the last one on anyone's list.

everytime somebody says there are 120 weapons in tf2 I always end up wondering if that's right. Each weapon slot has like only 1 or 2 all-time alternatives (often less).

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50180959]well-tuned[/QUOTE] [T]http://puu.sh/os9NO.jpeg[/T]

[QUOTE=Untouch;50182977]i have steamworks access, they haven't changed this at all for like a year, nor have they announced it[/QUOTE] I do not have insider information nor steamworks access, but it generally makes sense with Valve's gameplan. Roll out feature for one game (downloadable mods workshop for Skyrim), roll it out to all games later.

Well, it certainly wouldn't be on [I]your[/I] list, with all due respect. Knowing your history, you'd rip open your dictionary and try to find a more high-class adjective. But I digress. [QUOTE=Lord Exor;50177934]As far as I know, [I]SMITE[/I] releases balance patches every two weeks. Even [I]Killing Floor 2[/I] manages weekly balance tweaks now. Why is it that Valve has such an aversion to active balancing?[/QUOTE] KF2 did something right compared to TF2. Ok. Still doesn't excuse the poor decisions they make or the things TF2 do right compared to them, like make a functioning game that wasn't in EA for most of its active life cycle. If you aren't arguing that TF2 needs more updates, then what are you arguing? Because it certainly seems like it, especially with your constant disagreement with anybody who tells you why it doesn't matter that KF2 and Smite both update consistently. The last balance patch was less than a month ago. If you want games that update consistently, you can always play KF2 or Smite, but TF2 isn't and never has been a game that gets consistent updates. [QUOTE=Hell-met;50183549]everytime somebody says there are 120 weapons in tf2 I always end up wondering if that's right. Each weapon slot has like only 1 or 2 all-time alternatives (often less).[/QUOTE] This is non-stock weapons. Scout has 5 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melees, 18 total. Soldier has 8 primaries, 9 Secondaries, and 6 melees, 23 total. Pyro has 3 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melee, 16 total. Demoman has 5 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melee. 18 total. Heavy has 4 primaries, 5 secondaries, and 7 melee, 16 total. Engie has 5 primaries, 3 secondaries, and 4 melee, 12 total. Medic has 3 primaries, 3 secondaries, and 4 melee, 10 total. Sniper has 6 primaries, 5 secondaries, and 3 melee, 14 total. Spy has 5 primaries, 5 melee, and 2 secondaries, 12 total. 18 + 23 + 16 + 18 + 16 + 12 + 10 + 14 + 12 = 123 total weapons, not counting the 27 stock weapons. That's 160 different non-reskins in the game currently. Also, the only class that has any weapon with less than 3 alternatives is the Spy because of his Watch.

honestly i think this game is a lot more balanced than people give it credit for i can't really think of a weapon that is just straight up over powered, pretty much all the time when i die i feel like it's my fault and not just cause a weapon was too strong some people mention the crit-a-cola and stuff but honestly i've never noticed it...

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50183610]This is non-stock weapons. Scout has 5 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melees, 18 total. Soldier has 8 primaries, 9 Secondaries, and 6 melees, 23 total. Pyro has 3 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melee, 16 total. Demoman has 5 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melee. 18 total. Heavy has 4 primaries, 5 secondaries, and 7 melee, 16 total. Engie has 5 primaries, 3 secondaries, and 4 melee, 12 total. Medic has 3 primaries, 3 secondaries, and 4 melee, 10 total. Sniper has 6 primaries, 5 secondaries, and 3 melee, 14 total. Spy has 5 primaries, 5 melee, and 2 secondaries, 12 total. 18 + 23 + 16 + 18 + 16 + 12 + 10 + 14 + 12 = 123 total weapons, not counting the 27 stock weapons. That's 160 different non-reskins in the game currently. [B]Also, the only class that has any weapon with less than 3 alternatives is the Spy because of his Watch.[/B][/QUOTE] Spy: Sapper, Engineer: PDA, Engineer: Secondary.

Before we change subjects I've always wanted TF2 to have a Mod Workshop for itself like L4D2. Skins, Model Replacements, Animations, ETC. I also think it would be a good reason to remove/abolish sv_pure, valve would be able to make mods install in a specific directory with a hard to replicate file type, that way See Thru Player Exploits can be atleast somewhat avoided

Ignore this.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50183610]Well, it certainly wouldn't be on [I]your[/I] list, with all due respect. Knowing your history, you'd rip open your dictionary and try to find a more high-class adjective. But I digress. [/quote] That isn't how I operate. Also, how I choose to communicate is also entirely extraneous. [QUOTE]KF2 did something right compared to TF2. Ok. Still doesn't excuse the poor decisions they make or the things TF2 do right compared to them, like make a functioning game that wasn't in EA for most of its active life cycle.[/QUOTE] KF2 [I]is[/I] a functioning game, and it's only been around for a year. We can't truly compare their active life cycles as a result. Furthermore, the fact that Valve does some things right--or used to--isn't a good reason to shun valid criticism. [QUOTE]If you aren't arguing that TF2 needs more updates, then what are you arguing? Because it certainly seems like it, especially with your constant disagreement with anybody who tells you why it doesn't matter that KF2 and Smite both update consistently. The last balance patch was less than a month ago. If you want games that update consistently, you can always play KF2 or Smite, but TF2 isn't and never has been a game that gets consistent updates.[/quote] What balance patch? Are you referring to the Phlogistinator nerf? If anything, that exemplifies their confused priorities, as there are other weapons (Crit-a-Cola) that are far more injurious to the game that haven't been addressed, despite potential fixes for said weapons being relatively straightforward. The Crit-a-Cola has been in its imbalanced state for three years. To give you additional perspective, the Natascha had been an insignificant weapon for five, with the Tomislav suffering irrelevance for three. There isn't any excuse for allowing these blemishes to exist for so long.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50183610] This is non-stock weapons. Scout has 5 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melees, 18 total. Soldier has 8 primaries, 9 Secondaries, and 6 melees, 23 total. Pyro has 3 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melee, 16 total. Demoman has 5 primaries, 6 secondaries, and 7 melee. 18 total. Heavy has 4 primaries, 5 secondaries, and 7 melee, 16 total. Engie has 5 primaries, 3 secondaries, and 4 melee, 12 total. Medic has 3 primaries, 3 secondaries, and 4 melee, 10 total. Sniper has 6 primaries, 5 secondaries, and 3 melee, 14 total. Spy has 5 primaries, 5 melee, and 2 secondaries, 12 total. 18 + 23 + 16 + 18 + 16 + 12 + 10 + 14 + 12 = 123 total weapons, not counting the 27 stock weapons. That's 160 different non-reskins in the game currently. Also, the only class that has any weapon with less than 3 alternatives is the Spy because of his Watch.[/QUOTE] yes, numbers can't lie. I did mention all-star items that can actually stand up to stock though. That's between zero, one or two per slot. It's fairly easy to label weapons this way in 4 categories - Stock \ Serious Contender \ I'm an asshole \ Might aswell not exist I would say 75% are in the last 2.