Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

Why would they? If something doesn't work well in competitive play, people can just not use it. Meanwhile, it can still be fun to play with in non-competitive. I mean, just because most people don't play Heavy or Pyro in competitive doesn't mean they should remove them entirely from the game, right? So why do that for weapons?

The Sandman isn't fun to fight [I]against[/I] in non-competitive, that's the issue.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50216842]Why would they? If something doesn't work well in competitive play, people can just not use it. Meanwhile, it can still be fun to play with in non-competitive. I mean, just because most people don't play Heavy or Pyro in competitive doesn't mean they should remove them entirely from the game, right? So why do that for weapons?[/QUOTE] I am not talking about underpowered things, of course I'd love em changed but it isnt urgent. I'm talking about the Vita Saw, Sniper "shields", Quick-fix etc.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;50215092]The Sandman should slow enemies down rather than stun them, just as it already does, but while allowing the victim to retaliate.[/QUOTE] Might as well remove it completely then, as slowdown is 100% utterly and completely useless.

bring back the no doublejump. People actually whined about how UP sandman was back in the day because of this. funny, right?

[QUOTE=Hell-met;50217139]bring back the no doublejump. People actually whined about how UP sandman was back in the day because of this. funny, right?[/QUOTE] I find it hard to believe anyone with more than 3 braincells to rub together calling the OG Sandman [i]under[/i]powered when it was fully capable of doing a fullstop stun at any range on any player regardless of whether they were ubered or not.

[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;50217116]Might as well remove it completely then, as slowdown is 100% utterly and completely useless.[/QUOTE] You remove skill completely when you stun someone with a 3000 HU/s projectile and render them entirely impotent, so what's your issue? Slow is just as worthwhile to the Scout as it would be to the Heavy.

What?? The purpose of the sandman is to stun your opponent, don't say that you are just annoyed by the fact they aim well ! This is just being salty here, nothing else. Sandman is perfect as it is, i don't see why they would change it to please you. Same thing for the cleaver. Generally it's easy to dodge a cleaver or the sandman's ball, so why don't you? of course you will take one and be killed if you're a heavy infront of your team because you were too fast..

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50217501]What?? The purpose of the sandman is to stun your opponent, don't say that you are just annoyed by the fact they aim well ! This is just being salty here, nothing else. Sandman is perfect as it is, i don't see why they would change it to please you. Same thing for the cleaver. Generally it's easy to dodge a cleaver or the sandman's ball, so why don't you? of course you will take one and be killed if you're a heavy infront of your team because you were too fast..[/QUOTE] Just because the point of the weapon is to do that doesn't mean that it's good. If Valve made a weapon that instantly killed any class with a single shot, would you claim it's fine because "that's the point of the weapon!"

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50217501] Generally it's easy to dodge the sandman's ball, so why don't you?[/QUOTE] "Let me just dodge the fastest projectile in the game that takes my gun away and makes me crawl when I get hit with it." Wow, why didn't I fucking think of that. Something about a fast moving projectile that removes my ability to fight back or move effectively doesn't sound right in a game with mobility based combat. I don't feel like having my gun taken away because some fuckhead clicked M2 in my direction.

[QUOTE=geel9;50217524]If Valve made a weapon that instantly killed any class with a single shot, would you claim it's fine because "that's the point of the weapon!"[/QUOTE] Not a very good example because that does exist in the game already in a few different forms: most notably the sniper's rifles and spy's knives. The only caveat is that those particular weapons require very specific circumstances to be aligned and the enemy has means of mitigating those circumstances through positional awareness.

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;50217571]Not a very good example because that does exist in the game already in a few different forms: most notably the sniper's rifles and spy's knives. The only caveat is that those particular weapons require very specific circumstances to be aligned and the enemy has means of mitigating those circumstances through positional awareness.[/QUOTE] You know what I meant

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50216842]Why would they? If something doesn't work well in competitive play, people can just not use it. Meanwhile, it can still be fun to play with in non-competitive. I mean, just because most people don't play Heavy or Pyro in competitive doesn't mean they should remove them entirely from the game, right? So why do that for weapons?[/QUOTE] Sandman is banned because it's overpowered, not because it's bad. Crit-a-Cola is also banned for being overpowered. [i]Guess what secondary+melee loadout almost every Scout uses in matchmaking since it's weapon-ban-free.[/i] Comp leagues ban weapons for being toxically overcentralizing to gameplay, because they want diversity of weapon choices so that the meta is interesting both to spectators and to the players. (Before you bring up Heavy loadouts or stickies, the former is generally agreed to be underpowered and in dire need of alternate, viable gameplay options and the latter is what highlander is centralized around since demoman is effectively the team leader due to his destructiveness.)

I'm glad that Hydro got added in to Quickplay, but you can't give Valve too much credit. All it took was adding one line to a text file and renaming the "Special Delivery" gamemode to "Alternative". It's something they should have done 5 years ago. Valve's relationship with TF2 is far from perfect. There's still a lot of broken weapons in this game. Also, Valve whitelisting stuff in sv_pure is a positive thing? It shouldn't exist to begin with. Though if people keep bothering them to whitelist more stuff, they may remove it on pubs.

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;50218309]I'm glad that Hydro got added in to Quickplay, but you can't give Valve too much credit. All it took was adding one line to a text file and renaming the "Special Delivery" gamemode to "Alternative". It's something they should have done 5 years ago. Valve's relationship with TF2 is far from perfect. There's still a lot of broken weapons in this game. Also, Valve whitelisting stuff in sv_pure is a positive thing? It shouldn't exist to begin with. Though if people keep bothering them to whitelist more stuff, they may remove it on pubs.[/QUOTE] Do you know what sv_pure does? It's a really good thing that it exists. It just needs a proper whitelist, and to fix the distorted audio when a sound is blocked.

[QUOTE=geel9;50217524]Just because the point of the weapon is to do that doesn't mean that it's good. If Valve made a weapon that instantly killed any class with a single shot, would you claim it's fine because "that's the point of the weapon!"[/QUOTE] Your example is wrong because it is unbalanced. Of course i won't claim it's fine, it's obvious, it's a one shotting weapon (and it already happened with a certain R8 revolver) Nah, sorry, i think the sandman has nothing wrong and it just the player having difficulty playing against player that uses them. I think the sandman is pretty well balanced especially about the health reduction part. Really destructive, like the spy's kunai.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50218535]Your example is wrong because it is unbalanced. Of course i won't claim it's fine, it's obvious, it's a one shotting weapon (and it already happened with a certain R8 revolver) [/quote] [quote]x was intended to do y therefore it's fine[/quote] The point of the example is to apply your thought process to an extreme case. If your reasoning doesn't stand there, there's no reason for it to stand anywhere else. You're not allowed to make exceptions to this sort of reasoning because you disagree with that particular case. It's called a counterexample. If the format doesn't work, it doesn't matter what the things you plug into it are, the reasoning is flawed at its core. [QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50218535]Nah, sorry, i think the sandman has nothing wrong and it just the player having difficulty playing against player that uses them.[/quote] "Git gud :^)" [QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50218535]I think the sandman is pretty well balanced[/QUOTE] Not once have you ever made a case for why it's balanced other than "I think it's fine." If you're so confident in your assertion, argue with a game developer right now about it. Prove to me that disabling a player's guns crippling a player's mobility in a gun-based game with a heavy emphasis on positioning is somehow acceptable. That's not even taking into account how it's given to the most-mobile class in the game who reaps the most benefit from people being unable to run away or shoot at him. [QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50218535]especially about the health reduction part. Really destructive, like the spy's kunai.[/QUOTE] Scout loses a paltry 15 health meanwhile Spy loses effectively half of his health pool. 15 health is barely enough to push Scout past the threshold where Rockets [i]can[/i] 1-shot him. Most everything else still requires a second followup shot and would make no tangible difference whether he had it or not. Meanwhile the Kunai pushes Spy into the health range where most things will 1-shot him and most glancing blows will put him into critical range. These aren't even comparable. Something tells me that you just see that they both lose [i]some amount[/i] of max hp and base your verdict on that.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50217501]What?? The purpose of the sandman is to stun your opponent, don't say that you are just annoyed by the fact they aim well ! This is just being salty here, nothing else. Sandman is perfect as it is, i don't see why they would change it to please you. Same thing for the cleaver. Generally it's easy to dodge a cleaver or the sandman's ball, so why don't you? of course you will take one and be killed if you're a heavy infront of your team because you were too fast..[/QUOTE] It's really not that hard to aim it and very easily predict where someone is going with a super fast projectile. Generally if the ball doesn't hit, it's more than likely to be the fault of the person who aimed it rather than the opponent reacting in time to dodge a ball traveling at 90 mph. The sandman itself is dumb but I really like the sound it makes when you stun people.

I agree with ElderLolz, in fact it needs a buff! When you use it to stun someone, everyone close to him should get slowed down or even BONKED (which is what I call the entire "get stunned and cannot move the slightest" thing of the Sandman) just like how Supernova works in Mannpower! [B][I]Fuckin' hire me, Valve.[/I][/B]

Gentlemen, I'd like to remind everyone that the [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1503809"]weapon fixing megathread[/URL] exists, and does so for good reason.

I know i'm a bit late, but hydro now exists in quickplay. My favorite map, albeit a bit broken. So damn happy.

[QUOTE=LZoleee;50218444]Do you know what sv_pure does?[/QUOTE] Absolutely nothing beneficial in a non-competitive setting?

So you're saying you're fine with players knowing where you are as a spy at all times? Or hell, as any class?

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;50219614]Absolutely nothing beneficial in a non-competitive setting?[/QUOTE]doesn't it stop wall hackers n such?

[QUOTE=Freeze;50219643]doesn't it stop wall hackers n such?[/QUOTE] Material hacks, but those aren't really wallhacks if the map is optimized properly.

[QUOTE=LittleBabyman;50219655]Material hacks, but those aren't really wallhacks if the map is optimized properly.[/QUOTE] You can make particles like unusuals see-through, giving direct head wallhacks. you can also attach something like ui elements or particles to player bodies so you can get a basic idea of who is where.

didnt it turn out that valve can fix something like that but cant be bothered to

Didn't it also turn out that the guy who made that big exploit hack-pack found a way for it to bypass sv_pure 1 anyway so now sv_pure does nothing but hinder honest skin users?

TF2 is a broken game and Valve is clearly too busy or too lazy depending on who you ask too fix it so they added the customs folder so we can fix it ourselves and they can do other things, but then they made sv_pure which cancels any modding whats so ever, so didn't they just contradict themselves?

A small patch's shipped btw, supposedly fixing the framerate drops/hitching when pressing Tab to view the scoreboard.