Major Update Speculation V31: Gamechanging Edition - Games

[QUOTE=ikes;50232027]apparently someone who hadnt hacked in a year or a year and a half got vac'd[/QUOTE] They must of upload it to steam cloud like those CS:GO hackers they found last year.

[QUOTE=Dookas;50232247]Anyone else find it a bit unfair that Pills suffer no damage fall off so it's always 100? I don't feel like someone deserved a kill on me whne I was across the map and they got a luck pill land on me[/QUOTE] I think it's a better sort of randomness than the pill also having a random chance of dealing more than 100. [editline]1st May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=kos8bit;50232592]Then non-random calculated shots would be dumped too EDIT: FFS from all the weapons that we have GL is the last thing that should be touched, if it should be touched at all, don't start that EDIT2: One guy claims that he is still able to hack, but maybe he is just trying to calm his ass down and put old recording to his video (how do i make player smaller in the post?): [video=youtube;P9HVy0rQrwM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9HVy0rQrwM[/video][/QUOTE] Pretty sure dude had his 3rd alt banned about now and gave up. VAC works in waves, everyone will have a turn. Also, quoted videos appear smaller as you can see.

[QUOTE=The Duke;50232748]I wouldn't consider the Revolver to be on par with the Scattergun, Rocket Launcher, Flame Thrower, Grenade Launcher, Minigun, Shotgun or Sniper Rifle.[/QUOTE] Okay, but would you consider the [I]Knife[/I] to be on par with them? Because that's the real comparison with Spies, isn't it? Just because the revolver is in the weapon slot bound to the "1" key which we call the "Primary" slot, doesn't mean it's actually the Spy's primary weapon.

[QUOTE=G. Verloren;50234052]Okay, but would you consider the [I]Knife[/I] to be on par with them? Because that's the real comparison with Spies, isn't it? Just because the revolver is in the weapon slot bound to the "1" key which we call the "Primary" slot, doesn't mean it's actually the Spy's primary weapon.[/QUOTE] Yeah, shotgun also isn't on par with minigun, but that's fine because Engineer's primary way of killing people is a sentry gun. Shotgun and revolver are backup options, not primary weapons. Revolver literally isn't even treated as a primary weapon by the game, Spy doesn't have one.

What if they brought back hydro because they're adding a new better tc map next major patch along with fixing all the problems with the gamemode Hell, I never hated hydro, its just that we would spend more time hiding from the winners of that round then actually playing because of how steam-rolly it is

Well, turns out that hydro still can be confusing for some people, i often see people rushing out their base towards us, though our cp is locked (maybe they are just trying to get more control over the map, idk), there has to be an outline of their cp when they are on the defensive stage (their base). Also i think there should be smoother transitions between territories that don't force everyone to respawn and stare at the map every time scout goes for sneaky back-cap. I think it should work kinda like forward spawns on other maps - once enemy captures your territory, if you are at spawn - you are being respawned at your new spawn, if you are in the area that was locked off after the capture - you are being respawned, if you were in the fight after the capture - you still in the fight, you don't need to be respawned, gates to the new area are opened, gates to the old area are closed. It would also be a good idea to put a timer on the point, so it can't be captured for 20 seconds or so after new area is available. Many people offer increasing the capture times to fix the map and personally i am completely against that - hydro is the only map that has that feeling of madness when everyone throw their bodies on the point no matter what for the sake of the victory, that's what i love about this map most of all. [editline]1st May 2016[/editline] Also i think with some tweaks tc should be the best gamemode in the game, because unlike other gamemodes that are mostly just gimmicks or quake/tfc gamemodes, it was built specially for tf2

Ah, hydro is a legitimate confusing map compared to that End of the lines map which was too confusing also. why have they re added it :v: ???????

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50236268]Ah, hydro is a legitimate confusing map compared to that End of the lines map which was too confusing also. why have they re added it :v: ???????[/QUOTE] I don't see how its that confusing, the points are always relatively close to each other and there are giant arrows pointing in which direct to go. Steel is a much more confusing map imo. Especially when it comes to going to C, D, and E.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;50236342]Steel is the worst and completely negates the statement of the eotl map being too confusing for Valve.[/QUOTE] It becomes much less confusing once you actively read the signs. It just one day clicks.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;50236367]I played a fair share of matches on Steel and I will never get used to its layout.[/QUOTE] It's really not that hard once you realize it's just A, B, C, and D in a anti-clockwise circle around E. Plus, so many signs. Snowplow's problem was that its HUD elements added confusion for absolutely no reason, where a normal cap timer could have been used.

Every time I play steel I end up in that dead end room and cant actually find last.

You can't compare the maps this way. Steels complexity is based on the layout and it's unique gamemode. Hydro's complexity is based on the change between "Cap the enemy controll point and defend your point before the timer runs out" and "Only defend your controll point till the timer rans out". Snowploys complexity is based on the highligting of a gameplay unrelated object and the "train gets wrecked in XXX seconds" timer. New players are used to have a timer which tells them how much time is left before they lose and not when a object is going to be damaged.

They've done everything in their power to help you, though: giant signs everywhere, a map in the respawn room, even a custom-made opening video you can rewatch at any time (much like Hydro, incidentally). I wouldn't want to give up one of the most interesting and tactical maps in the game just because it's confusing the first three or so times you play it.

The problem with Snowplow is that there's absolutely no reason for the HUD to be like that at all. Why do I need to be notified by loud noises every 35 seconds that the train is getting damaged rather than just having a round timer? It would make zero difference in gameplay, and all the current HUD does is convolute it for no reason. Steel's layout is necessary because of the way the map works, with the gimmick of being able to cap last at all times. Snowplow's HUD stuff is unnecessary.

I'd sooner figure out a slightly different hud than entire map layouts. I mean if we want to play the "X is Really just Y" game, then once you draw that conclusion its not even confusing anymore. Its just unnecessary.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;50236342]Steel is the worst and completely negates the statement of the eotl map being too confusing for Valve.[/QUOTE] How dare you, Steel is the best.

Steel is one of the best map in tf2. There so many path you can take. I really like this "Point are only bonus but you can take the final point everytime!" i really like how if you want the last point's capture easier you can take the first point. One of my first map in tf2 in 2012 and the one i had the most fun also, i've had TFC in my steam library for a long time but i've never played it until then, but it was really.. confusing? I didn't understood a single thing. And the grenade spam, holy SHIT was it annoying :sick: every single time in tfc classic 2fort :/ Spy is pretty confusing, engineer is pretty confusing, the HUD is really bad. But it's probably because i'm used to actual TF2.. and then there is this : [video=youtube;SI840bR3HYc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI840bR3HYc[/video] i can see why most of tfc weapon have been cutted out of tf2, especially the grenade

It was confusing only because you treated it like TF2, not like the new game Personally, i started from TF2 and when i played TFC for first time i firgured out how everything works in 15 minutes or so

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50236567]Steel is one of the best map in tf2. There so many path you can take. I really like this "Point are only bonus but you can take the final point everytime!" i really like how if you want the last point's capture easier you can take the first point. One of my first map in tf2 in 2012 and the one i had the most fun also, i've had TFC in my steam library for a long time but i've never played it until then, but it was really.. confusing? I didn't understood a single thing. And the grenade spam, holy SHIT was it annoying :sick: every single time in tfc classic 2fort :/ Spy is pretty confusing, engineer is pretty confusing, the HUD is really bad. But it's probably because i'm used to actual TF2.. and then there is this : [video=youtube;SI840bR3HYc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI840bR3HYc[/video] i can see why most of tfc weapon have been cutted out of tf2, especially the grenade[/QUOTE] Also If a spy tranquilizer hits you and there is no medics to be found, that's it, you're dead regardless of how many health packs you come into contact with

GLDSRC was another era where you actually had to spend playtime to learn and earn your kills. in TF2 it's almost obscene how any random joe can be effective by just existing and accidently clicking their mouse1. But admitedly that was valve's intent since the start.

It's called GoldSrc. This bothers me so much.

re: everyone talking about cp_steel again, check out [URL="http://rezuaq.tumblr.com/cp_steel"]this interactive map[/URL]! It really helped me learn how everything works in cp_steel.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;50236342]Steel is the worst and completely negates the statement of the eotl map being too confusing for Valve.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ElderLolz;50236367]I played a fair share of matches on Steel and I will never get used to its layout.[/QUOTE] It literally has some of the most blatant cap direction signs in the game. In spawn? Left door says A, Right door says B. No one capped A? Go left unless you want to backcap E very slowly by going through the right door. (Not recommended until at least B is capped, mostly is only used to distract defense due to how slowly it caps at the beginning and 9-times-out-of-10 will only get backcapped when C is capped unless defense REALLY sucks) Finished capping A? Only three directions to go once the cap is completed: the sniper deck next to the defense's spawn door which gives clear shooting visibility to E, the giant pathway that says B(+C) on it that is literally a straight line to B, or through the spawn and out the only other door than you took to get to A. If you waited a while or respawned after a cap, there is also another path that slowly opens up to E (and D) visible from directly on the point, clearly marked as "E". Every point can access E, as part of the stage's gimmick is that E is backcappable even when other points are not, and that every time you cap a point, that point's spawn door closes shut and gives them one less option to deal with you. The A spawn door closes when you cap A. Finished capping B? Look at the building. See that it says E? That means that's not the simplest direction to C, but is instead the route for capping E, which is accessible from every point later on. Instead, it's the dark alley with the giant C and a glow-in-the-dark sign right next to the point and easily visible from standing on it; go into the dark alley to get to C. Did you end up accidentally taking E, anyway? No big deal, just make a right at the point E and you'll be provided with two paths. Take the upstairs path to go to the rightmost balcony of C (indicated with a sign on the corridor visible from the staircase), or take the downstairs path to go to the ground level of C. Both paths are visible from C as being labelled "E". The E spawn door that leads to the left side of the point closes when B is capped, making it harder for defense to deal with E backcappers. Capping C erects bridges to E, making it easier for offense to cap E. Finished capping C? If you were contested at all, you probably saw that there was a sign saying "D" on the right. This is the only path to get to D from C and is more prominent than the other paths that link to C. Enter the building via the sign that said D? There is another sign at the fork that clearly indicates the door that has D and is next to red's C spawn. The only other two directions from this fork are a balcony to C and the path from C that you took, both of which are barely a short distance away from C. Take the pathway down (it's a straight line) and you literally are standing right next to D. You can't even miss this point from this path since the only way out is to walk over the point. You can see the path from A in the back that is made for heading to D and E. How do you know whether which path leads to A and which path leads to E? The path to E has the letter E on it, visible from the D point. Capping D closes the other spawn door for red near E and forces them to come out of the D spawn, while it also erects guardrails on the bridges to make it harder for knockback or bad judgment to make you fall off. If you took the path from A to get to E, it gives you two options to get to E, both of which are visible with the many doors and windows present on this path. After making the mandatory right, going straight leads to the right side of E. Going left instead gives you a different route for point D. Like when capping D, you can simply turn to the right and see the door marked E, which is just a short distance from the left side of E. The pathway listed above can also be used by people coming from B to head to D and the otherside of E if they want; it's the only pathway that can be taken by ignoring the signs indicating to go to C on the right and instead taking a left, which goes around E and immediately drops you off on the path from A to D/E. The upstairs location on the side of E that has the path to D is just a sniper battlement, but it also has a health kit and ammo kit should you need one. It's designed to mirror the sniper battlement that offense is likely using from point A. If you're on defense, you literally just look at the gates to see where they lead to: all of them are assigned letters that indicate which gate is the closest to the point you want to defend. It's actually a really fun and well-designed map (one of the top 5 best ever made, in my opinion), you just need to follow the gigantic signs that tell you exactly what those paths lead to until you memorize the layout. If necessary, avoid the E signs until you are used to the map or are heading to E if you want to take the most linear and intuitive route.

[QUOTE=ElderLolz;50236509]That I can agree with partially. While it does replace a convenient round timer, it's still not overly complicated to see what's going on though. In my opinion at least.[/QUOTE] The mark of a good HUD is to offer the most information with the minimal amount of actual [i]stuff[/i]. It's like if you were a math teacher and your student never reduces and simplifies their final answer. When you distill the game mode for snowplow down to its core, there's no need for the train health or the trap timer, all you need is a round timer to get the exact same information across but with less obfuscation. Without thinking, can you tell me how much round time is left with 17 seconds on the clock and 70% train health left? No, you can't. Not only do you need to perform the mental arithmetic, but you also are lacking 2 crucial bits of information in order to perform that arithmetic in the first place. That information being how much damage the countdown deals (although most people will assume it's a multiple of 5 or 10) and how much time it takes for each partition to take effect. To a player who joins mid-round, they're given such a strange lack of information that they can't distinguish if there are actually 17 seconds left in the round (doesn't help that it's replacing what is typically understood to be the round timer) or if there are 7 minutes and 17 seconds left in the round (making an assumption that each 10% is worth 1 minute). In reality, there are 4 minutes and 22 seconds on that clock, but you wouldn't be able to tell that from a simple glance. If you can't get all crucial information from the HUD with a quick peek, then the HUD is too complex for what it's trying to achieve.

[QUOTE=Tinker;50236494]The problem with Snowplow is that there's absolutely no reason for the HUD to be like that at all. Why do I need to be notified by loud noises every 35 seconds that the train is getting damaged rather than just having a round timer? It would make zero difference in gameplay, and all the current HUD does is convolute it for no reason. [/QUOTE] Not true, giving Snowplow a normal round timer would actually improve the map quite a bit, beyond making the hud less cluttered. As it is right now, it either encourages total stomps or discourages any kind of late pushing, since the damage can't be undone too much for the next round. Not that anybody cares about it now anyway.

I still am not entirely sure why they made Snowplow that and not, say, a regular CP map where it simply has a special animation showing the train either derailing (defense wins) or crashing into the buildings (offense wins). The train's movement is pretty jank, it gets stopped pretty ridiculously by chunks of wood and in general it doesn't really match the location for the short film. (plus the HP execution is kind of odd) Mind you it's pretty, and it has some nice alternate paths, but I just find it is missing enough relation with the short it is supposedly based upon.

[QUOTE=Tinker;50236494]Why do I need to be notified by loud noises every 35 seconds that the train is getting damaged rather than just having a round timer?[/QUOTE] "it was a unique experiment" or something along those lines from the developers. AKA I'm too stubborn to fix fundamental problems in my map, let's have the community whine until Valve puts it in instead.

[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;50236567]Steel is one of the best map in tf2. There so many path you can take. I really like this "Point are only bonus but you can take the final point everytime!" i really like how if you want the last point's capture easier you can take the first point. One of my first map in tf2 in 2012 and the one i had the most fun also, i've had TFC in my steam library for a long time but i've never played it until then, but it was really.. confusing? I didn't understood a single thing. And the grenade spam, holy SHIT was it annoying :sick: every single time in tfc classic 2fort :/ Spy is pretty confusing, engineer is pretty confusing, the HUD is really bad. But it's probably because i'm used to actual TF2.. and then there is this : [video=youtube;SI840bR3HYc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI840bR3HYc[/video] i can see why most of tfc weapon have been cutted out of tf2, especially the grenade[/QUOTE] I can see why the original TF Team brought back 2Fort even if it's completely unbalanced in current TF2, that version of the game looks super fun and I imagine long slim corridors really added to it moreso than it does to current slow, methodical, team-based TF2.

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;50237461]I can see why the original TF Team brought back 2Fort even if it's completely unbalanced in current TF2, that version of the game looks super fun and I imagine long slim corridors really added to it moreso than it does to current slow, methodical, team-based TF2.[/QUOTE] yeah it's crazy how fatter and slower everything is in TF2. If you spawn HL2 character models in tf2, you look like giants compared to them. I don't know why they thought the game needed its own scale.

Steel and Hydro are both really fun once you learn the layout and arrow placement, it just takes a bit of time is all. On the subject of TFC and grenades, I would honestly have preferred if Mannpower was just "TF2 with Grenades" since it would be a lot more intriguing than "TF2 with grappling hooks and fixed power-ups", and even though it would be a clusterfuck most people would immediately know going into it that its a clusterfuck