Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!
5,003 replies, posted
And the fact that the community isn't bothering to host servers anymore is Valve's fault... why, exactly?
If you hate Valve servers, put your money where your mouth is and host your own.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686591]And the fact that the community isn't bothering to host servers anymore is Valve's fault... why, exactly?
If you hate Valve servers, put your money where your mouth is and host your own.[/QUOTE]
Even if a server is well funded it can struggle to acquire players because of how quickplay basically dumbed down finding servers and how quickplay funnels players into valve servers immediately, making the server browser non existent for new players.
So yes, in a way it is Valve's fault for skewing the way servers are found by new players and how some custom servers aren't allowed in the quickplay roster.
Making server finding more speedy to pander to newer players who just want to jump in the game is a detriment to community servers.
Valve thought that instant gratification was more important that helping community servers get exposure to build themselves through the server browser.
Also, we don't hate valve, offering genuine criticism of something doesn't mean you hate it. Only molly coddled children can't understand that you can like something but can also point out faults.
I love TF2, that's why I want it to be better. If I hated it, I wouldn't be here because I wouldn't want to be involved with it at all.
How much of the community of a nearly 10 year old game is "new players"? How long can they realistically keep playing and still not realize how to use a basic server brower of the kind used by nearly every other game of this type? Really how big of an impact could that [I][B]possibly[/B][/I] be having on community servers?
Anyone find out what that Normal Strange weps trade up thing ended up being about?
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686643]How much of the community of a nearly 10 year old game is "new players"? How long can they realistically keep playing and still not realize how to use a basic server brower of the kind used by nearly every other game of this type? Really how big of an impact could that [I][B]possibly[/B][/I] be having on community servers?[/QUOTE]
Have you ever entered a Valve server, ever? Have you not been able to pick out the completely new and befuddled players there? They definitely exist.
There is absolutely no reason for those people to change to a server browser, why would they? They've always played this game through Quickplay, so that's what the game is. It's just ignorance, and there's no real way for people to tell that community servers exist.
In the past, when using the server browser, people would search for a map they like or a server with good ping near them or a server of their own language, and so would find a community server fairly regularly. Some of those people then become regulars, and the community is restocked because there's always players that stop playing the game altogether. The latter still happens, but the former doesn't because there's no discernable influx of new, random players any more because Quickplay, contracts, and the like completely discourages it.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686643]How much of the community of a nearly 10 year old game is "new players"? How long can they realistically keep playing and still not realize how to use a basic server brower of the kind used by nearly every other game of this type? Really how big of an impact could that [I][B]possibly[/B][/I] be having on community servers?[/QUOTE]
We have a thread devoted to shit new players say on a daily basis. Some people have difficulty dealing with the concept of airblast so much that valve had to plaster it on the stock description. You also have a large base of little teenyboppers asking in chat how to "get sheild as constructer guy" or "go invisible". I'm sad that I'm not making this up.
The game being 10 years old has zero indication of the average common sense of the player base. With a free to play game, you can have new players installing every day.
New players used to be forced to use the server browser, thus exposing them to everything. Valve thought this must have been sensory overload on the poor souls. New players in general will stick to quickplay because it works for their purpose: fast random community-less games.
[QUOTE=Tinker;49686673]Have you ever entered a Valve server, ever? Have you not been able to pick out the completely new and befuddled players there? They definitely exist.[/QUOTE]
Who denied their existence? I sure didn't. But I do deny that they're a meaningful percentage of the playerbase. So come back when you've got some actual verifiable numbers which back up the notion that they somehow are. Burden of proof and all that jazz.
But you know what? New players aren't the issue. They don't contribute to community servers anyway. The problem is people aren't paying to host community servers anymore. A lack of newbies being funneled into community servers should have zero real affect on that. You want to blame a portion of the community? Blame the old guard.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686707]Who denied their existence? I sure didn't. But I do deny that they're a meaningful percentage of the playerbase. So come back when you've got some actual verifiable numbers which back up the notion that they somehow are. Burden of proof and all that jazz.
But you know what? New players aren't the issue. They don't contribute to community servers anyway. The problem is people aren't paying to host community servers anymore. A lack of newbies being funneled into community servers should have zero real affect on that.[/QUOTE]
The reason people don't pay for community servers is because they all [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1485597&p=49535889#post49535889]slowly emptied over time[/url], which is a direct result of Valve's quickplay and general anti-community server policies. Why pay for a server that's 0/24, 24/7?
There's actually quite a few completely empty community servers still up, so funding isn't the problem.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686707]Who denied their existence? I sure didn't. But I do deny that they're a meaningful percentage of the playerbase. So come back when you've got some actual verifiable numbers which back up the notion that they somehow are. Burden of proof and all that jazz.
But you know what? New players aren't the issue. They don't contribute to community servers anyway. The problem is people aren't paying to host community servers anymore. A lack of newbies being funneled into community servers should have zero real affect on that. You want to blame a portion of the community? Blame the old guard.[/QUOTE]
But it has a huge effect, community servers NEED people to play on them, and Quickplay funnels everyone away to Valve servers and chain server garbage like Skial.
And don't forget that, not only is TF2 probably one of the best multiplayer FPSes ever, but it's a [I]free one.[/I] That runs on nearly anything with a little tweaking. There are a lot of new players.
How hard is it to just not use quickplay? If you're not a complete newb, what's stopping you from playing on a community server? You don't want to be the first person on an empty server and have to wait a couple minutes for the server to fill up? The horror!
Seriously, you're blaming Valve for giving people the option to be lazy, but then not blaming the players themselves for [I][B]being lazy[/B][/I]. Also, aren't you changing your arguments around an awful lot here?
[I]"I don't like Valve servers!"
"So play on a community server."
"There aren't any community servers to play!"
"Then maybe the problem is with the community, not Valve."
"No, it's Valve! Because there actually ARE community servers to play on, but no one plays on them!"
"Why don't people play on the community servers?"
"Because it takes slightly less effort to play on Valve servers with quickplay!"
"But you don't like Valve servers, so why not make the extra effort to play on servers you DO like?"
"..."[/I]
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686792]How hard is it to just not use quickplay? If you're not a complete newb, what's stopping you from playing on a community server? You don't want to be the first person on an empty server and have to wait a couple minutes for the server to fill up? The horror!
Seriously, you're blaming Valve for giving people the option to be lazy, but then not blaming the players themselves for [I][B]being lazy[/B][/I]. Also, aren't you changing your arguments around an awful lot here?
[I]"I don't like Valve servers!"
"So play on a community server."
"There aren't any community servers to play!"
"Then maybe the problem is with the community, not Valve."
"No, it's Valve! Because there actually ARE community servers to play on, but no one plays on them!"
"Why don't people play on the community servers?"
"Because it takes slightly less effort to play on Valve servers with quickplay!"
"But you don't like Valve servers, so why not make the extra effort to play on servers you DO like?"
"..."[/I][/QUOTE]
Actually it's more like this:
"I installed TF2 today"
"I want to play right away!"
"Ooh, quickplay, that sounds fast!"
*click*
"These valve servers sure are great."
...meanwhile on a community server...
"I've been playing TF2 for almost ten years, but I have less time for it everyday, so I try to go to my regular pub to get action!"
"I've been waiting here for 45 minutes and no one is here but me!"
*Tommy McVeteran has left (disconnect)*
"Hey, I own this server but all my old player base has grown up and gotten jobs and families"
"My server operates by the amount of people who play each week."
"Hopefully new players will open up their browser and give me a click before I run out of money to fund this server!"
*Player Freshie O'Newman has joined*
"Hey, there's no one here!"
"Back to quickplay!"
*Freshie O'Newman has left (disconnect)*
*community server dies because not enough people are able to replace the graying regular playerbase with fresh blood because said fresh blood opts for the easy and sure way*
"All those new dudes" aren't the problem. You are.
I mean, who the hell wants to play with newbs? Do you? Hell no! So why do you care where the newbs are playing, so long as you're playing somewhere else? People bitch about playing with newbs all the time, and yet they can't be bothered to get off the Valve servers and go find some community servers to play on instead so they can avoid newbs? What the hell?
Seriously, I see way more people complaining about Valve servers than I see new players on Valve servers. Stop whining and go play on some goddamn community servers! Get away from the newbs you hate! Turn off sv_pure if you want! Go wild! If people put half the effort into finding or even hosting community servers to play as they do into bitching about Valve servers, the problem would solve itself overnight.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686842]"All those new dudes" aren't the problem. You are.
I mean, who the hell wants to play with newbs? Do you? Hell no! So why do you care where the newbs are playing, so long as you're playing somewhere else? People bitch about playing with newbs all the time, and yet they can't be bothered to get off the Valve servers and go find some community servers to play on instead so they can avoid newbs? What the hell?
Seriously, I see way more people complaining about Valve servers than I see new players on Valve servers. Stop whining and go play on some goddamn community servers! Get away from the newbs you hate! Turn off sv_pure if you want! Go wild! If people put half the effort into finding or even hosting community servers to play as they do into bitching about Valve servers, the problem would solve itself overnight.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, how dare we say anything. Open discourse is so lame, right?
Open discourse is different than whining about a problem that you could fix yourself, while you instead blame it on someone else who really isn't at fault.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4iDSoFq.png[/img]
A brief history.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686931]Open discourse is different than whining about a problem that you could fix yourself, but you instead blame it on someone else who really isn't at fault.[/QUOTE]
I can't fix new players choosing to use quickplay which diverts traffic from community servers.
I can't fix some servers using sv_pure 1.
I can't fix basic human stupidity, which is why I know all these replies to you are in vain.
But you don't want to play with new players anyway! Why would you want them on community servers, if they're one of the major reasons people hate Valve servers?
No one is forcing you to play on sv_pure 1 servers! Go find a sv_pure 0 server to play on instead! And don't tell me you refuse to do so because Valve isn't funneling the new players - who you hate - onto that server!
You have absolutely no valid complaint! You want to avoid newbs and sv_pure 1? Play on servers without them! Nothing is stopping you! You just refuse to make any effort, and then you blame Valve for not giving you a handjob and a gold medal! Go host your own server, and then all you and the rest of the whiners can go play on it and be happy!
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49686985]But you don't want to play with new players! Why would you want them on community servers, if they're one of the major reasons people hate Valve servers?
No one is forcing you to play on sv_pure 1 servers! Go find a sv_pure 0 server to play on instead! And don't tell me you refuse to do so because Valve isn't funneling the new players - [B][I]which you hate[/I][/B] - onto that server!
You have absolutely no valid complaint! You want to avoid newbs and sv_pure 1? Play on servers without them! Nothing is stopping you! You just refuse to make any effort, and then you blame Valve for not giving you a handjob and a gold medal! Go host your own server, and then all you and the rest of the whiners can go play on it and be happy![/QUOTE]
When did I say I hate new players?
I find it very odd how you deem anyone who says anything against what you personally believe a "whiner". It's almost like a discussion forum was created for discussion.
Fine! Then ignore the new players! You want sv_pure 0, and so do tons of other people, so why do you need the newbs who don't know or care what that is to play on the same servers?
The only reason these servers don't have people playing on them is because people refuse to play on them. And people only refuse to play on them, because there aren't enough people playing on them. It's a Catch-22. If people would just join a server with 0 people and wait five minutes for people to start joining, they could just move the fuck on with their lives.
[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49686987]I find it very odd how you deem anyone who says anything against what you personally believe a "whiner". It's almost like a discussion forum was created for discussion.[/QUOTE]
Complaining about something, blaming other people for it, and doing absolutely nothing to find a workable solution isn't a "discussion" - it's whining. This entire topic is a non-issue that you could solve with the bare minimum of effort, but all you can think to do is complain. That's whining. I've given you a reasonable solution, but you refuse to even consider it, much less use it, and then complain that I'm just stupid so you're going to plug your ears and sing "La la la, I'm not listening!" instead. That's whining.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not with how you put exclamation points at the end of every sentence.
[QUOTE=G. Verloren;49687001]Fine! Then ignore the new players! You want sv_pure 0, and so do tons of other people, so why do you need the newbs who don't know or care what that is to play on the same servers?
The only reason these servers don't have people playing on them is because people refuse to play on them. And people only refuse to play on them, because there aren't enough people playing on them. It's a Catch-22. If people would just join a server with 0 people and wait five minutes for people to start joining, they could just move the fuck on with their lives.
[/QUOTE]
And what does one do when you're waiting up to 45 minutes in an empty server because everyone and their brother is clicking that big shiny quickplay button?
It indeed is a Catch 22 because now you have a large portion of the player base conditioned to never even wonder what the server browser is. These players increase in numbers, the other ones who innately use the server browser stagnate or decrease.
This creates a horrible cycle, more people use quickplay, less people use the browser and the community server because fresh blood uses quick play in droves while the browser experiences only a minute trickle of that new blood.
I don't hate newbs, we were all once newbs. I want newbs to be better. You only become better in a community of regulars who you come to know. Valve servers while quick and cathartic, don't offer that sense of long term improvement.
This feeds into this cycle of less new players eventually getting better and moving on to non-quickplay/Valve servers areas.
Host your own server. Promote it here on Facepunch, maybe. Start a clan / guild / group of some kind and recruit people to play together on the server. You know - typical community stuff, like in any other multiplayer game? The sort of stuff it's always been up to the community to do for themselves?
And if you can't manage, too bad. That's the fault of the community, not Valve. If people are so stupid that they can't figure out the Server Browser located on the mainpage, and so stubborn and lazy that they refuse to stop using Quickplay instead, that's their fault - not Valve's for not holding them by the hand and treating them like children. If there honestly aren't enough people willing to get together with you and play on a single sv_pure 0 server, there must not be much real demand for such a thing.
And that's all I have to say on the matter. Let's move on to a new topic now, please.
Oh damn 22 new posts in less than 2 hours!
Firstly i though that the new TF2 update just came out...
But no, it's just a some people complaining about "iz TF2 alredi deid or nutt?¿?¿¿))0)0))"...
*IT'S TIME TO STOP.*
[QUOTE=Jhejh poT;49687379]*IT'S TIME TO STOP.*[/QUOTE]
Speak for yourself.
[QUOTE=pepetoads;49684986]sv_pure is a necessary evil. without it, cheaters would be far more abundant, especially with wallcheats.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't stop lmaobox cancer, and Valve could easily change the sv_pure whitelist to allow things like weapon skins, or retextures, but they're just too lazy to even bother.
[QUOTE=DrCactus;49687561]That doesn't stop lmaobox cancer, and Valve could easily change the sv_pure whitelist to allow things like weapon skins, or retextures, but they're just too lazy to even bother.[/QUOTE]
It's not just lmaobox, there's many other cheat makers out there, including private ones. But still, VAC is terrible for an F2P game, it's slow and easily bypassed by making a new account. They need a more real-time response to the issue, similar to a server sided anti-cheat known as FairFight. Something like Overwatch won't help in an F2P environment either, you need something that is quick to deal the cheating problem, not something that backlogs for weeks.
Valve is one of the worst video game companies to their consumers. Even EA and Ubisoft have been better recently. I can't think of a single decision Valve has made recently as a corporation (not as a developer) that was positive for the users.
[QUOTE=Jhejh poT;49687379]Oh damn 22 new posts in less than 2 hours!
Firstly i though that the new TF2 update just came out...
But no, it's just a some people complaining about "iz TF2 alredi deid or nutt?¿?¿¿))0)0))"...
*IT'S TIME TO STOP.*[/QUOTE]
it's saturday
[QUOTE=_Pai;49687902]Valve is one of the worst video game companies to their consumers. Even EA and Ubisoft have been better recently. I can't think of a single decision Valve has made recently as a corporation (not as a developer) that was positive for the users.[/QUOTE]
This is so disheartening to think about. With how they treated their customers I want to just walk away, but Valve has a pretty tight monopoly on the game platform market. Yes i know Origin and GOG exist, but they don't have any of the games I play, nor my friends list, nor any of my workshop content.
[QUOTE=Snowshoe;49686950][img]http://i.imgur.com/4iDSoFq.png[/img]
A brief history.[/QUOTE]
Timeline should start with Mannconomy introduction.
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