Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed! - Games - Facepunch Forum

Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!

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I think we've all had this sentiment and I've probably said it ad nauseam, but I think before any real genuine attempt can be made to make a Matchmaking/competitive update, there needs to be a massive clean up of bugs, visual inconsistencies, and broken/lazy animations/textures. Before we can enjoy moving into a new house, things need to be fixed and repainted. First person view models still don't match up to third person player models. Most of the class icons are of the BETA class textures, same with gibs. Why are there so many weird splotches of black and other colors on the player models? They still haven't fixed players looking like they're carrying all their weapons at once. Most of these things have been in the game for nigh on 9 years, that's really unacceptable for a company that always asserts they can't add certain maps or other community contributed content because of their "super high" internal standards. Super high internal standards means sniper shouldn't have 2 gloves in first person and 1 glove in third, but he does. That's just one example of some of the things that need to be fixed. I'd rather have a massive clean up project than matchmaking right now.

All i want is new Stranges from the TF2 team.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49815639]"Deliver me from the evils of overwatch?" Tf2 fans seem to have a massive unreasonable hateboner for Overwatch, but Blizzard actually communicates and can actually keep a damn deadline. [URL="http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742405108"] Heck the lead developr of the game takes the time to respond to specific detailed feedback[/URL] I love tf2, but the reason why I am far more hyped for Overwatch than anything tf2 related, is that with Overwatch I feel like the people making it actually care and are passionate about the game, with tf2 it feels like valve halfasses everything and does the bare minimum.[/QUOTE] Flame basically tore apart overwatch on this tf.tv thread [url]http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/547332/valve-announces-details-for-matchmaking-beta-expansion[/url]

[QUOTE=Symwck;49815697]You guys think overwatch/tf2 will be a league of legends/dota 2 comparison in terms of popularity?[/QUOTE] I don't really see TF2 holding up to Overwatch in terms of popularity. Right now Overwatch is really high profile, it's been designed from the ground up with a competitive focus, it's a very fresh take on an FPS, and it's already got a notable competitive scene even in beta. TF2 is a game that, while not exactly obscure, is far from the notoriety Overwatch already has, and was never designed around anything more than casual 12v12 pubs. I'm more than a bit concerned about TF2's future in the sense of the game as a whole being adapted to try to fit it's square peg self into the round hole that is esports. The kinds of changes needed to make this game into some super competitive esport, especially for the format Valve wants of 6v6 with no whitelists or limits, more than likely would result in a game that is a far deviation from what we actually like and what made the game popular to begin with.

Nearly 50 posts in the last 4 hours, and nearly all of them are complaints. God, I love MUS.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49815773]I think we've all had this sentiment and I've probably said it ad nauseam, but I think before any real genuine attempt can be made to make a Matchmaking/competitive update, there needs to be a massive clean up of bugs, visual inconsistencies, and broken/lazy animations/textures. Before we can enjoy moving into a new house, things need to be fixed and repainted. First person view models still don't match up to third person player models. Most of the class icons are of the BETA class textures, same with gibs. Why are there so many weird splotches of black and other colors on the player models? They still haven't fixed players looking like they're carrying all their weapons at once. Most of these things have been in the game for nigh on 9 years, that's really unacceptable for a company that always asserts they can't add certain maps or other community contributed content because of their "super high" internal standards. Super high internal standards means sniper shouldn't have 2 gloves in first person and 1 glove in third, but he does. That's just one example of some of the things that need to be fixed. I'd rather have a massive clean up project than matchmaking right now.[/QUOTE] This is all tiny nitpicky stuff that doesn't affect the actual game at all (barring the looking like they're holding all their weapons bug). While I'd love to see the small stuff touched up and for the game to look a little bit better, the gameplay comes first. I'd rather them work on the sniper's weapon balance than work on the status of sniper's gloves.

[QUOTE=Chrytin;49815856]I don't really see TF2 holding up to Overwatch in terms of popularity. Right now Overwatch is really high profile, it's been designed from the ground up with a competitive focus, it's a very fresh take on an FPS, and it's already got a notable competitive scene even in beta. TF2 is a game that, while not exactly obscure, is far from the notoriety Overwatch already has, and was never designed around anything more than casual 12v12 pubs. I'm more than a bit concerned about TF2's future in the sense of the game as a whole being adapted to try to fit it's square peg self into the round hole that is esports. The kinds of changes needed to make this game into some super competitive esport, especially for the format Valve wants of 6v6 with no whitelists or limits, more than likely would result in a game that is a far deviation from what we actually like and what made the game popular to begin with.[/QUOTE] see [QUOTE=Cupkek;49815848]Flame basically tore apart overwatch on this tf.tv thread [url]http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/547332/valve-announces-details-for-matchmaking-beta-expansion[/url][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;49815880]This is all tiny nitpicky stuff that doesn't affect the actual game at all (barring the looking like they're holding all their weapons bug). While I'd love to see the small stuff touched up and for the game to look a little bit better, the gameplay comes first. I'd rather them work on the sniper's weapon balance than work on the status of sniper's gloves.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's entirely nit picky to hold a company to the standard they set for themselves. If TF2 had just come out yesterday, then yes, I'd agree gameplay needs 100% attention, but this attitude of "we'll get to it later" has let these things sit untouched for almost a decade. Heavy and soldier didn't even have something as basic their "thanks" (thumbs up) gestures activated until someone emailed valve. It's the heaping of all these little small things on to each other that really paints a portrait of either not caring or being unobservant. Some of these things are very quick changes and I suppose that's what gets me more than anything. The community has had some of these things fixed as mods for ages, that means people notice them. But most of these simple things shouldn't need third party fixes, they should have been fixed a very long time ago.

i don't even think this is biased, it seems like an objective opinion amongst people who've barely played it or who only can appreciate casual games. He even seemed pretty excited for overwatch, so i dont think he's one of the people (like me) who instantly disregarded the game.

[QUOTE=br0ken_;49815895]see[/QUOTE] I didn't say Overwatch would be better. I said it would be more popular competitively. The question was about popularity, and flame's post is nothing but bitching about gameplay.

[QUOTE=Cupkek;49815848]Flame basically tore apart overwatch on this tf.tv thread [url]http://www.teamfortress.tv/post/547332/valve-announces-details-for-matchmaking-beta-expansion[/url][/QUOTE] Ive played overwatch and that is not true in the slightest, most of his ranting seems to stem from a combination tf2 fanboy blindness, and a solo player mentality in a team coordinated game. I would go further into detail but I want to try to keep discussion relating to overwatch focused on comparison to or impact on tf2 alone, although one thing of note I find amusing [QUOTE] Sure you're the best at something, but that something isn't respectable[/QUOTE] Tf2 comp players really have no authority to make a claim like this, considering whether people like it or not, tf2 is known for being a casual derpy hat simulator, that only now almost a decade after release is getting a barebones matchmaking system.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49815639]"Deliver me from the evils of overwatch?" Tf2 fans seem to have a massive unreasonable hateboner for Overwatch, but Blizzard actually communicates and can actually keep a damn deadline. [URL="http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742405108"] Heck the lead developr of the game takes the time to respond to specific detailed feedback[/URL] I love tf2, but the reason why I am far more hyped for Overwatch than anything tf2 related, is that with Overwatch I feel like the people making it actually care and are passionate about the game, with tf2 it feels like valve halfasses everything and does the bare minimum.[/QUOTE] [url=http://www.teamfortress.tv/31781/valve-announces-details-for-matchmaking-beta-expansion/?page=4#112][img]https://i.imgur.com/yVfaF4U.png[/img][/url]

[QUOTE=Snowshoe;49815940][img]https://i.imgur.com/yVfaF4U.png[/img][/QUOTE] Someones already linked it, and it still reaks of biased fanboy rage rather than an actual valid argument, if you want I can easily find you tf2 pros who say the exact opposite of the game, but I really dont want a pointless overwatch vs tf2 pissing contest. All I was originally trying to point out is that the tf2 communities need to childishly bash on overwatch is both unwarranted, but just plain stupid. Overwatchs existence doesnt change tf2 in any negative way.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49815956]Someones already linked it, and it still reaks of biased fanboy rage rather than an actual valid argument, if you want I can easily find you tf2 pros who say the exact opposite of the game, but I really dont want a pointless overwatch vs tf2 pissing contest. All I was originally trying to point out is that the tf2 communities need to childishly bash on overwatch is both unwarranted, but just plain stupid.[/QUOTE] Specifically, what's invalid about the argument other than the "not respectable" part (which he could have worded better)? TF2 community is also a huge generalization. The only one "bashing" overwatch here is flame, and that's his opinion. But unlike your opinion, he backed his with detailed experience in that thread.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49815956]Someones already linked it, and it still reaks of biased fanboy rage rather than an actual valid argument, if you want I can easily find you tf2 pros who say the exact opposite of the game, but I really dont want a pointless overwatch vs tf2 pissing contest. All I was originally trying to point out is that the tf2 communities need to childishly bash on overwatch is both unwarranted, but just plain stupid. Overwatchs existence doesnt change tf2 in any negative way.[/QUOTE] Maybe he just didn't have fun playing it.

all you've said is that he's bashing it while never actually combatting the points he makes like how the classes work and how there is no thought put into the design of the weapons. because arguing might show youre wrong, and we cant have that, can we?

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49815423]flame regarding his statements: [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/47mubh/why_are_we_listening_to_the_mattr0d_guy_again_i/d0e46lc[/url][/QUOTE] So if it's not just matchmaking passes in this update what does everyone think will be in it? My guesses: First Matchmaking passes Updated Matchmaking menu Some performance improvements (this was talked about on another twitter account, said that the update was delayed because they were working on performance improvements) Official support for Transparent Viewmodels (B4nny talked about this on a stream) An ingame link to TF2 twitch streams (the comp players talked about this in the video they made about visiting Valve, this would be pretty easy for Valve to add) Improved ingame voice codec

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49815908]I don't think it's entirely nit picky to hold a company to the standard they set for themselves. If TF2 had just come out yesterday, then yes, I'd agree gameplay needs 100% attention, but this attitude of "we'll get to it later" has let these things sit untouched for almost a decade. Heavy and soldier didn't even have something as basic their "thanks" (thumbs up) gestures activated until someone emailed valve. It's the heaping of all these little small things on to each other that really paints a portrait of either not caring or being unobservant. Some of these things are very quick changes and I suppose that's what gets me more than anything. The community has had some of these things fixed as mods for ages, that means people notice them. But most of these simple things shouldn't need third party fixes, they should have been fixed a very long time ago.[/QUOTE] My standards for Valve has dropped very low, for TF2 at least. For most other games a small fix like that will be patched in and my reaction is "oh ok" but when it comes to TF2, a tiny texture fix or animation change for some reason gives me more joy than it should.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;49816006]So if it's not just matchmaking passes in this update what does everyone think will be in it? My guesses: First Matchmaking passes Updated Matchmaking menu Some performance improvements (this was talked about on another twitter account, said that the update was delayed because they were working on performance improvements) Official support for Transparent Viewmodels (B4nny talked about this on a stream) An ingame link to TF2 twitch streams (the comp players talked about this in the video they made about visiting Valve, this would be pretty easy for Valve to add) Improved ingame voice codec[/QUOTE] twitch streams would be pretty huge for tf2 as a game. edit: people arent bashing overwatch because theyre afraid it will hurt tf2, they just think its a garbage game lmao.

If you think that Overwatch is gonna be garbage, I strongly suggest thinking again. It looks like good fun, and I have only heard good things about it coming from people who've actually played it (on twitch and etc.) Blizzard knows what there doing.

[QUOTE=facepunched8;49816109]If you think that Overwatch is gonna be garbage, I strongly suggest thinking again. It looks like good fun, and I have only heard good things about it coming from people who've actually played it (on twitch and etc.) Blizzard knows what there doing.[/QUOTE] I have a feeling it's gonna be good but going this long with being unable to play due to being unlucky has honestly turned my hype down by a good few notches. Coulda been because most people I watch are posting stuff on it making me become less interested though :\

I can't see a big push for competitive without major performance fixes

I'm running out of goats

[QUOTE=Zeos;49816142]I can't see a big push for competitive without major performance fixes[/QUOTE] I'm legitimately done with regularly dropping below 30 frames while hitting over 70-80 in medium-high Fallout 4. It's fucking ridiculous.

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49815993]all you've said is that he's bashing it while never actually combatting the points he makes like how the classes work and how there is no thought put into the design of the weapons. because arguing might show youre wrong, and we cant have that, can we?[/QUOTE] Let it be known that I tried to avoid the overwatch vs tf2 pissing contest. [QUOTE]Imagine playing a game of Dota, where some classes required intense micro (maybe a tinker), and some classes required at least one hand (sniper in 6.83) and then you gave the tinker just a blink dagger, and you gave the sniper a rapier, mask of madness, bkb and blink.[/QUOTE] Im going to be frank here, I have never played dota but from what I am reading I believe he is talking about how some abilities on some heroes seem too powerful, when I played Overwatch I never really felt that, I felt like each ability was a good complement to the characters strengths. [QUOTE] Then turn that game into an fps. Remove all concepts of balanced cooldowns, remove all concepts of hero/map ingenuity, and remove any concept of rewarding aim, and then put yourself on pl_badwater. Except instead of there being stairways to get to the roof of B, only soldiers can get up there by rocket jumping, and the only stairway up there involves walking through the RED spawn. You keep trying to take B, but instead of being able to frag or shoot anything, you have to rely on your teammates to have the most ridiculously well timed coordination to achieve anything.[/QUOTE] The maps seemed perfectly well balanced to me, plenty of open areas/ flank routes, and the needed chokepoint here and there, but if you wont take my word for it ill let [URL="http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742634194#17"]the head of OW development explain it himself[/URL]. And unlike tf2 where spam is king, in Overwatch theres countless ways to avoid spam, go around it or negate it outright together, heck Zarya gets free damage from spam. [QUOTE] If your team doesn't have a medic or a shield, you'rve already lost because the game doesn't have any concept of ammo, and none of the weapons are balanced from even the point of view of reload speed so there is literally a neverending plethora of spam coming at you every 5 out of 6 seconds.[/QUOTE] Gee what happens in tf2 if your team doesnt have a medic and the enemy team does? the exact same fucking thing, as for the weapon balance all I can really say is everything felt perfectly fine to me, nothing really one shots you unless you are a squishie character like zenyatta or tracer but even then you can negate those weaknesses with a friendly symettra or Torbjorn, theres counters to pretty much every weapon in the game. Really all his problems seem to be the same problems you face in tf2 when your team has 4 snipers and spies. If you have shit team comp youre gonna lose, thats how class based games work. [QUOTE] Blizzard has neglected to address the competitive aspects of the game. They added some dumb ass cvars that are only toggleable by leaving your game to go to a main menu. There are no dedicated servers, there is no console. Everything this game stands for is literally an overpriced console shooter with microtransactions.[/QUOTE] This is pretty damn nitpicky, first off the games still in fucking beta, of course they arent going to have a massive list of changes to suit your competitive needs, neither did tf2 at launch, and the recent build of overwatch comes with far more options for that. As for overpriced, I find a one time payment of 40$ guaranteeing you all future DLC to be quite a fair deal, and the microtransaction complaint is quite hypocritical considering tf2 has microtransactions up the ass, but you know the difference between OWs microtransactions and tf2s, in overwatch you can get every single cosmetic by playing the game alone, and infact there unbox system doesnt even give you duplicates. [QUOTE] You join a game saying 'wow I want to play a fun class (like soldier scout or demoman) but the enemy team is full of pyros, and only pyros. Pyros that have airblast, rocket jumps, infinite health, sentry guns, and long range projectictles. And you know you can beat the pyros by playing ONLY engineer, or ONLY heavy but why would you want to do that... you're an fps player, with good aim, and good movement, who doesn't get rewarded by it because the game was designed to be played with an xbox controller.[/QUOTE] this reminds me alot about nooblets in tf2 who whine about wm1 pyros, aka bad players who want to run in and deathmatch every problem without having to think or strategize. It is confirmed no where that overwatch was designed for xbox controllers, it was made for consoles in mind but guess what, tf2 also has a console port. I pity the players who will play Overwatch on console. I also feel like one of this guys problems is he comes from the mindset where, in tf2, you can go soldier, scout, demo, and just shit on everyone since those are the 3 main combat classes, the other options like spy, pyro, and heavy just get stomped by them in most situations, see in Overwatch the combat classes arent the only powerhouses, everyones a powerhouse, everyone gets a chance to shine, not just the super mobile damage dealers like in tf2. [QUOTE]That's what overwatch feels like. People hyping this game are blinded by the concept of personal success. You can be a top streamer or player, sure. And there will be tournaments. But being on a top overwatch team is going to feel like being on a top heros of the storm team. Sure you're the best at something, but that something isn't respectable. Blizzard has time to fix the game, but the way it is now, it's a joke. I'm sure I'm in the minority saying TF2 will pick up with matchmaking and money will find a way to flow in, but if there's one thing Valve has never taken lightly it's esports. Anyone who has been to a TI will tell you its a ridiculous environment. Everything is on point, the prizes are paid immediately, the atmosphere is incredible, and the schedule/hotel/verything is top notch.[/QUOTE] This highlights his fanboy bias, you can pretty much sum it up by saying "overwatch is a joke and tf2 will be so successful cause valve likes e-sports and stuff and it will be way cooler" Ignoring the fact that is valve cared so much about comp tf2s success, they would have supported it 6 or 7 years ago. Before I make this next statement I feel like I should say a few things, I feel like matchmaking for tf2 is definitely a good thing, it gives players who are sick of the low quality valve servers a place to try there hardest and gain a well balanced match, all be it this issue was solved years ago by community servers but we know how valve dealt with those. But I find it naive to think that tf2, 8 years after release getting a MM system will make it some competitive superpower. Its not, I like tf2 as much as the next guy but the facts are there, tf2 has already established its reputation as a casual game, in addition for any game to be a successful e-sport, it needs to have MAJOR support, people need to want to watch it, pay for it etc. Tf2 passed that chance awhile ago, MM is great for tf2, but plenty of great games that have had matchmaking systems since launch arent e-sports. Tf2 getting matchmaking is not going to draw any interest to anyone outside of the tf2 community, you dont see non tf2 focused game sites writing about tf2s matchmaking because they dont care. Tf2's matchmaking system is a great massive change for the tf2 community, but for the much larger gaming community around it, its not a big deal. [QUOTE] Blizzard fucked up. They made a MOBA FPS called Titan, led by no other than Jeff Kaplan. The game flopped. They didn't fire him. They instead gave him a second chance to turn their MOBA into overwatch. Now theres just a bunch of lore filled bullshit scattered throughout the game. It's trying to be everything and instead its nothing. From a MOBA pov, its awful, and from an FPS pov, it's also awful. I think if Paragon/Battleborn/Paladins get some GOOD developer support and in game economy going, overwatch will fade out.[/QUOTE] Played all of those games but paragon, Paladins while an okay game is no where near as good as overwatch, I would say paladins is to overwatch what final combat is to tf2. Battleborne, seems to appeal to a completely different audience and has completely different gameplay. The rest is all just a bunch of butthurt rage at Jeff Kaplan that has no relevance to his argument Overall the few points he made were quite poor and was composed heavily of pointless nitpicks, and general fanboy bias rather than an actually well thought out comparison. Another way to point out that he is speaking from blind fanboyism and not from well thought out reasoning is that he never specifically states what exact things in the game he finds imbalanced, he is being really vague and cant seem to put his finger on any actual important details. Anyway thanks to anyone who managed to actually read through what I had to say I appreciate it, I know I can be a bit jaded and harsh but alot of that stems from me taking tf2 a little too seriously and wanting it to be the best game it can be. and as promised, other pro tf2 players thoughts on overwatch [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/3vo761/overdrive_interviews_seagull/[/url] [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt3mjj2GN_o[/url] [url]http://overmvp.com/overwatch-impressions-melty-esports-club/[/url]

I mean if you are going to be optimistic, week's not over yet.

first off, i agree that thinking that tf2 will become as big as dota and cs is silly, especially for the time being. it does have its fair share of problems, but at least those can be negated by the community. meanwhile, blizzard is listening to random-ass redditors rather than actual competitive players in terms of balance. did you just use star and jerma as "pro tf2 players"? and using a pro overwatch team as an example? also, the "beta" argument is null as it is pretty much in "almost full release lets git hype from streamers Lole" mode, not to mention it already has a fucking competitive community. TF2 in beta did not have that to nearly the scale. Half of the things you say amount to just having the opposite opinion as flame, who i, while i agree with, doesn't give much to back a lot of his opinion points. The part about using a developer from the game as a point is a bit of a joke, and besides, it's the community that makes the maps for how they see fit. Look at counter-strike and tf2. and don't give the beta response, the overwatch beta isnt competing with tf2007, that's ridiculous. [QUOTE]this reminds me alot about nooblets in tf2 who whine about wm1 pyros, aka bad players who want to run in and deathmatch every problem without having to think or strategize. [/QUOTE] instead of talking about how you essentially have to mold your team to fit the other (which is a terrible mechanic taken out of the fuckwit who designed the darwin's danger shield), which is what he meant by what you misinterpreted is as "y cant i play dis clas :(", you just call him a fanboy, not once but three times. ad-hominem arguments don't mean anything, you're just calling him a "blind fanboy" in essence because he disagrees with you. when he says the console part, he doesnt literally mean that it was designed for a console, he means that its skill cap is so low that you can play it with a console controller. which is true, overwatch's skill cap is lower than the average height of the population of china. I also find it amusing that you bring up pro tf2 players, when so many of them clambered to overwatch only to come back a few months later after realizing it's a terrible competitive game with bad design. you also neglect to realize that flame himself is a "pro tf2 player" honestly, this doesnt belong here anyways. [editline]25th February 2016[/editline] also on the topic of the beta passes, they wont be handed out on a friday; the passes are coming with a bugfix update. we know that bugfix updates shouldnt happen on a friday, remember the "for every bug fixed three more created" rule of valve...

[video=youtube;0KNQsYBrNtY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KNQsYBrNtY[/video] It would be perfect if the TF team, or Valve in general, would make similar videos about the development of their games.

To be honest getting anything from them would be better than what we get now.

[QUOTE=Radaghast;49816550] It would be perfect if the TF team, or Valve in general, would make similar videos about the development of their games.[/QUOTE] That would require work and social skills. I mean other devs seem like such normal everyday people who happen to make games and are happy to share the process, Valve folk seem like a bunch of cloistered up nerds who haven't seen the light of day or have had real human contact in years. And I think you all know how I feel about [I][B]nerds[/B].[/I]

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