Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed! - Games - Facepunch Forum

Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!

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[QUOTE=pepetoads;49816514] did you just use star and jerma as "pro tf2 players"? [/QUOTE] I was referring to who they were interviewing, although star does have high level comp history. [QUOTE] and using a pro overwatch team as an example? [/QUOTE] Who do you think is in a pro overwatch team? Ill let you know that tf2 experience transfers over pretty well to Overwatch [QUOTE]"pro overwatch players" also, the "beta" argument is null as it is pretty much in "almost full release lets git hype from streamers Lole" mode, not to mention it already has a fucking competitive community. TF2 in beta did not have that to nearly the scale.[/QUOTE] I agree its silly people consider themselves pro at a game thats not out yet, but at the same time those are the what comes up when you search for competitive tf2 player/ overwatch. The games still in beta, that is a fact, dont let you opinion get in the way of that. [QUOTE] Half of the things you say amount to just having the opposite opinion as flame, who i, while i agree with, doesn't give much to back a lot of his opinion points. The part about using a developer from the game as a point is a bit of a joke, and besides, it's the community that makes the maps for how they see fit. Look at counter-strike and tf2. and don't give the beta response, the overwatch beta isnt competing with tf2007, that's ridiculous.[/QUOTE] So you admit flame had shit claims with nothing of value to back them up, yet are still defending him why? also saying that using a developer from the game as a source is a joke, what the fuck is your reasoning for that. You can not using someone developing the game as an example of how the game is developed. Can I not cite a chemist when discussing chemistry, can I not quote darwin when discussing evolution? [QUOTE]instead of talking about how you essentially have to mold your team to fit the other (which is a terrible mechanic taken out of the fuckwit who designed the darwin's danger shield), which is what he meant by what you misinterpreted is as "y cant i play dis clas :(", you just call him a fanboy, not once but three times. ad-hominem arguments don't mean anything, you're just calling him a "blind fanboy" in essence because he disagrees with you.[/QUOTE] I call him a fanboy because he displays fanboy behavior. Letting his biases for what he is a fan of get in the way of actual logic and facts. Also dont pull the ad hominem card when his post has it in spades. [QUOTE]when he says the console part, he doesnt literally mean that it was designed for a console, he means that its skill cap is so low that you can play it with a console controller. which is true, overwatch's skill cap is lower than the average height of the population of china.[/QUOTE] Anyone can say a games skillcap is low, do you have anything to backup that claim or is it, an empty accusation. [QUOTE] I also find it amusing that you bring up pro tf2 players, when so many of them clambered to overwatch only to come back a few months later after realizing it's a terrible competitive game with bad design. you also neglect to realize that flame himself is a "pro tf2 player"[/QUOTE] I thought they came back a few months later because the overwatch beta was down, also do you have any sources for that or is it another empty accusation. Infact me listing other comp tf2 players responses was in response to him. Being a comp tf2 player doesnt make you incapable of being wrong.

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49816569]That would require work and social skills. I mean other devs seem like such normal everyday people who happen to make games and are happy to share the process, Valve folk seem like a bunch of cloistered up nerds who haven't seen the light of day or have had real human contact in years. And I think you all know how I feel about [I][B]nerds[/B].[/I][/QUOTE] You have 2k hours in tf2 NERD.

[QUOTE=Totenkreuz;49816752]You have 2k hours in tf2 NERD.[/QUOTE] Heavy mains can't be nerds, we are the definition of alpha male beefcakes. I spent those hours on the field of glory filling tiny baby nerd bodies with bullets and nerd faces with knuckles while making out with smokin' hot bleached blonde biker babes.

-snip-

Do you think we will get a HTC vive hat or something when it is released?

[QUOTE=Johnny Joe;49816819]Heavy mains can't be nerds, we are the definition of alpha male beefcakes. I spent those hours on the field of glory filling tiny baby nerd bodies with bullets and nerd faces with knuckles while making out with smokin' hot bleached blonde biker babes.[/QUOTE] :< please stop shooting up my engineer stuff Mr heavy as I do nothing but let my sentry do all the work while I relaxo and drink

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49815639]"Deliver me from the evils of overwatch?" Tf2 fans seem to have a massive unreasonable hateboner for Overwatch, but Blizzard actually communicates and can actually keep a damn deadline. [URL="http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742405108"] Heck the lead developr of the game takes the time to respond to specific detailed feedback[/URL] I love tf2, but the reason why I am far more hyped for Overwatch than anything tf2 related, is that with Overwatch I feel like the people making it actually care and are passionate about the game, with tf2 it feels like valve halfasses everything and does the bare minimum.[/QUOTE] You don't need to be an expert game designer to see what Blizzard is doing wrong with the game. They made a lot of mistakes, some of which were fixable and actually got fixed based on community feedback, but the core gameplay is flawed and that won't change anytime soon. People may find the game fun now, but they won't find it fun after a few months when they dig through the crust of fluff to find nothing but frustrating gameplay. TF2 may be a game that is going nowhere, but at least it has the potential to go somewhere, which Overwatch doesn't. Can't build a house on the sand. [editline]26th February 2016[/editline] Pretty much just echoing what everyone else said before, oops.

[t]http://puu.sh/nlZPL/603f5b9977.png[/t] It pretty much says everything

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49815639]...with tf2 it feels like valve halfasses everything and does the bare minimum.[/QUOTE] For all of the flak and acrimony poptart has been receiving around here, he's rather on point with this statement.

i mean he's absolutely right. if the core gameplay and characters of tf2 wasn't as fun as it is I wouldn't give a game this poorly maintained the time of day

[QUOTE=Drury;49817148]You don't need to be an expert game designer to see what Blizzard is doing wrong with the game. They made a lot of mistakes, some of which were fixable and actually got fixed based on community feedback, but the core gameplay is flawed and that won't change anytime soon. People may find the game fun now, but they won't find it fun after a few months when they dig through the crust of fluff to find nothing but frustrating gameplay. TF2 may be a game that is going nowhere, but at least it has the potential to go somewhere, which Overwatch doesn't. Can't build a house on the sand. [editline]26th February 2016[/editline] Pretty much just echoing what everyone else said before, oops.[/QUOTE] You say blizzard made alot of mistakes yet you never mention any of them specifically. .Seriously all of the posts like saying OW's skillcap is low etc all just make broad statements yet you provide 0 examples of why its true. If its your opinion that Overwatchs core gameplay is flawed thats fine, but unless you back it up with actual facts and logic its just a pointless opinion with no value.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49817855]You say blizzard made alot of mistakes yet you never mention any of them specifically. .Seriously all of the posts like saying OW's skillcap is low etc all just make broad statements yet you provide 0 examples of why its true. If its your opinion that Overwatchs core gameplay is flawed thats fine, but unless you back it up with actual facts and logic its just a pointless opinion with no value.[/QUOTE] Okay, here's why Overwatch is doomed to mediocrity. When you look at winning in a game of Team Fortress 2, what do you look at? You look at positioning, you look at team co-ordination, you look at shooting/aiming skills, and you look at movement skills. In essence, TF2 has a perfect mix of skilled combat and skilled teamwork: you need to be good at shooting and moving, but you also need to work together. This is good(tm). When you look at CSGO, the same is true. You need to be good at aiming, you need to be good at recoil compensation, and you need to be good at teamwork and general gamesense. Again, a mixture of [b]individual and team-based skill.[/b] Now let's look at Overwatch. From most of the accounts I've heard from people who played the beta, it's almost entirely team-based. There's very little room for any actual individual skill because each player only has a single weapon, an ultimate, and in general it's a spamfest clusterfuck. The only way to win is to push with your team at the right time -- which is good -- but your individual combat abilities are almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things. In general, I feel there's very little depth to Overwatch. In TF2, there's a large amount of mechanical depth. You have rocketjumping, stickyjumping, scout movement, etc. People spend years getting good at rocketjumping and perfecting their movement skills. These movement skills are important because [b]the strong movement counteracts the ability to aim.[/b] If you're able to move well, enemies need to be good at aiming and prediction to counteract that. Contrast that with something like Overwatch, where the extent of rocketjumping is "can you press a single button and move in the same arc?" Only one class (the Tracer) has interesting movement in any way. There's no DEPTH to it other than "can you push THE BUTTON?" Overall Overwatch is a game that completely punishes and discourages any individual skill or merit on your team. I don't think it's a good game and I don't find it appealing in any way.

Man all this talk of matchmaking saving tf2/its not going to do anything/ gets you hopeful for the update coming out and all of that, but to be honest i'm personally hoping that we find more MVM code added in the patch. Matchmaking yadadada everyone has said their share on it, but MVM is one of the bigger draws to giving the game a bit more of life in my personal opinion. Its something you can do more then just once a week(or so) with contracts, and hell people still pay for it today even though its been 2 years since a substantial update for it (not including bug fixes). Plus it will add a bit of life to the trading community (even if its brief like the last set of cases) since it will be something new and most likely Austrailium. Base and short i just want all of this matchmaking stuff up and out, for better or worse, just so we can get to more exciting updates in the later quarters of this year.

[QUOTE=facepunched8;49816109]If you think that Overwatch is gonna be garbage, I strongly suggest thinking again. It looks like good fun, and I have only heard good things about it coming from people who've actually played it (on twitch and etc.) Blizzard knows what there doing.[/QUOTE] Looks like fun != it will be fun. I've bought (and played) games in the past which [B][I]LOOKED[/I][/B] like fun and got some good reviews but I found to be utter bollocks and I wished I had never bought it (Droplitz for the Steam treasure hunt for example or even Destiny (the latter was pre-owned and for £11)). Just like I know people who love Dota 2 and play it constantly but when I played it, I got bored extremely quickly, didn't understand the buy mechanics (even though I've played games like SMNC for hours on end which uses the same "upgrade as you go" mechanics MOBAs use) and I hated the camera as it twitched all over the place for me, which got me killed. Uninstalled within 20 minutes but hey, people say it's good and it looked good but I found it to be the opposite. Basing your own opinion on someone else's, or just how it looks is a stupid thing to do. That's the sort of attitude which fuels dev companies who downgrade their games on release, but the initial footage looks amazing - and you give them a pre-order, so they'll never stop doing this shady business (they've got your money; It's too late to change anything at that point). As the old saying goes "proof is in the pudding". As Overwatch isn't even out yet, those who think it'll be garbage haven't had a chance to change their minds (if they will that is) so to tell them to "think again" is a waste of time, and a stupid, biased sounding remark on your behalf (back to the "Looks good to begin with, but can change" above). Personally, overwatch looks interesting from what I've seen but I'm still on the fence/opinionless on it. I'll most likely still stick to TF2 as I've spent far too much time in it, and enjoy jumping into it occasionally as it's pretty easy to pick up again after a long stint away (which is happening more and more for me recently due to Uni coursework every fucking week). Since there's no open Beta as far as I know for Overwatch, chances are I'll give it a pass until something hooks me into it (an extremely low chance to be fair).

Overwatch doesnt have a hat workshop so no thx :)

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49817855]You say blizzard made alot of mistakes yet you never mention any of them specifically. .Seriously all of the posts like saying OW's skillcap is low etc all just make broad statements yet you provide 0 examples of why its true. If its your opinion that Overwatchs core gameplay is flawed thats fine, but unless you back it up with actual facts and logic its just a pointless opinion with no value.[/QUOTE] Something that caught my eye rather quickly was the sheer power of ultimate attacks. They are oftentimes much more powerful than TF2's ubercharge - a general theme seems to be giving the character triple the health, healing and some sort of damage buff/absurdly powerful attack, making killing people extremely easy. Pretty much the only way to counter that is to move out of the way, which appears to be quite the task considering most heroes move about at Heavy pace - not to mention multiple ultimate attacks use mechanics that nullify any victim's attempts at dodging them, such as gravity pull, stun, large AOE or aimbot. In relation to TF2, this means less stalemates, but a high potential for steamrolls. To offset this, they removed respawn times. Watching attack/defense matches, you can see someone wipe the whole team with an ultimate, then have to fight them all again 3 seconds later. They also get to keep their ultimates between deaths, so they can ult right back. Then it apparently became way too easy to defend, so they made cap progress not go down while uncontested. It's layers upon layers of bad decisions. Compare this with TF2, where there is a certain sense of certainty behind pushes. You have moments of downtime between respawn waves, where both teams can regroup before their next clash - this is all natural and happens even on Valve servers. In Overwatch, pushes are practically nonexistent. It's everyone fighting nonstop, dying and being revived willy-nilly more often than not based on who decided to pop what ult at what time. How can you get any satisfaction out of killing someone if they come right back without even losing progress towards their ultimate attack? How can you have any sense of accomplishment killing everyone with an attack designed to kill everyone effortlessly? How can you have any kind of fun constantly getting stunned, aimbotted and wallhacked without having any options avoiding it? How can you have any sense of vengeance killing a guy who wiped out half your team if killing him was easy and completely unfair? There is no meaning behind any decisions you make, you're just bashing heads against each other till somebody wins.

Could you people just stop?

[QUOTE=Ponken;49818213]Could you people just stop?[/QUOTE] Agreed, I don't feel like reading a novel either.

[QUOTE=cha0s;49818352]Agreed, I don't feel like reading a novel either.[/QUOTE] Bad luck. [B]The Multicontinental Update Speculation Council has sat to talk once more. This time, the reason of the call, however, was something not everyone expected. A wild signal has been transmitted in the midst of nothing.. it looked like a lot it was going to be something. Strict-Matic has went on to report this to the leader of the Council, Craptasket.[/B] [I]"What is this important message you are speaking of!"[/I] said Craptasket to Strict-Matic. [I]"Sir, it was found in the sudden of a nothing! This Thursday is truly a weird moment to live!" The messages themselves seem to be of an unusual type. It is encrypted in the SpyvEngy code, which is extremely offsettling. I thought the Empire has destroyed all traces of this messaging method, I incquire immeditate resolvance of this perplexing issue, lord Craptasket!"[/I] Craptasket nodded. [I]"This looks interesting. Majority vote will decide on this matter, wheter it should be discussed or not."[/I] The Council began voting. [B]Majority was held 8 to 3.[/B] Elderlolz, Snowshoe and Drury have voted against. They would be those to be sent as emissaries of the council to explore something mysterious. A wrecked ship of unknown design. [I]"Why does it always have to be always us"[/I], whispered Snowshoe to himself. [B]Inside the wrecked ship, Elderlolz, Snowshoe and Drury have found a "Memory Container #px34425 - flame". In fact, many more Memory Containers have been found. "#px34225 - DrunkenF00I". "#px15717 - Pete the Janitor". Upon performing a system diagnosis, the transmittors of #px34425 have matched those from the signaled message - a great conspiracy was put into play, and god forbid - it looked like a lot it was going to be something. They weren't wrong. Upon further inspection, a RealTalk emblem was found. Truly, maybe the MUS was supposed to find the Memory Container. Maybe even the second, unfound message inside. Snowshoe put a flashdisk on it, and once they were done, all members of the research unit have been translocated back. And the message revealed spread, revealing something extremely unsettling. The memory container was faulty, and has been given the information about the wrong game. It was like a robotic boogaloo all again.[/B]

[QUOTE=pipantarctic;49818453] [B] TL;DR [/B][/QUOTE] You sir, are a god amongst men.

[QUOTE=geel9;49817956]Okay, here's why Overwatch is doomed to mediocrity. When you look at winning in a game of Team Fortress 2, what do you look at? You look at positioning, you look at team co-ordination, you look at shooting/aiming skills, and you look at movement skills. In essence, TF2 has a perfect mix of skilled combat and skilled teamwork: you need to be good at shooting and moving, but you also need to work together. This is good(tm[/QUOTE] Literally the exact same skillsets in Overwatch, do you think teamwork in overwatch just magically makes the enemy team die. Widowmakers still have to click heads, Tracers and Genjis have to have good combat movement, tanks and supports have to be incredibly mindful of positioning, etc. Overwatch is just as reliant on gunplay as any other shooter. [QUOTE]When you look at CSGO, the same is true. You need to be good at aiming, you need to be good at recoil compensation, and you need to be good at teamwork and general gamesense. Again, a mixture of [b]individual and team-based skill.[/b][/QUOTE] Which again, you also need in Overwatch for about 75% of classes. You have to manage the spread on soldier 76s assault rifle for example, you also need great precision on zaryas particle beam, McCrees revolver is like an ambassador but without the get out of jail free card that is dead ringer, widowmakers sniper rifle, hanzos arrows, tracers pistols, genjis shurikens, Meis ice gun, Junkrats grenades, I could go on. It seems like you really didn't do your research and are looking for any excuse you can find to say its bad. [QUOTE]Now let's look at Overwatch. From most of the accounts I've heard from people who played the beta, it's almost entirely team-based. There's very little room for any actual individual skill because each player only has a single weapon, an ultimate, and in general it's a spamfest clusterfuck. The only way to win is to push with your team at the right time -- which is good -- but your individual combat abilities are almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things. [/QUOTE] I have heard the opposite from many, [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP8PtDxxHpU"]This guy makes a pretty great in depth argument for why its a great game[/URL]. Of course I have actually played and can use my own experience when I claim saying its a skill less clusterfuck is a massive load of bullshit. If you want to see a real clusterfuck of random spam, go to any valve server. But if thats not enough evidence just google over watch review/ reaction and youll get tons of websites confirming its quality. also your claim that every character has only one weapon is A.) Actually wrong as Torbjorn and Mercy have weapon switches, B.) Not entirely true because many characters weapons function like 2 weapons, for example zaryas primary fire being a beam and secondary being an explosive, or widowmakers fire while unscoped an smg, while scoped a more powerful charge based sniper rifle. [QUOTE]In general, I feel there's very little depth to Overwatch. In TF2, there's a large amount of mechanical depth. You have rocketjumping, stickyjumping, scout movement, etc. People spend years getting good at rocketjumping and perfecting their movement skills. These movement skills are important because [b]the strong movement counteracts the ability to aim.[/b] If you're able to move well, enemies need to be good at aiming and prediction to counteract that. Contrast that with something like Overwatch, where the extent of rocketjumping is "can you press a single button and move in the same arc?" Only one class (the Tracer) has interesting movement in any way. There's no DEPTH to it other than "can you push THE BUTTON?"[/QUOTE] So because it doesnt put a heavy impact on movement its bad? Does this mean classes like scout, heavy, non wrangler engineer, medic, and pyro completely skill less and have no depth? [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWpe_KMrTCc"] Also there are other characters with[/URL] [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiEYUUvURUk"]more complex advance mobility[/URL]. The push the button argument is always moronic, lel sticky demo is m1 m2, sniper is just m2 m1, thats what video games are, pushing buttons. Anyone can be a moronic nitpicker who can simplify anything in almost any video game to lel he just pushed buttons. A medic ubered at the right moment and scored his team the win, lel medic is no skill he jus push button. [QUOTE]Overall Overwatch is a game that completely punishes and discourages any individual skill or merit on your team. I don't think it's a good game and I don't find it appealing in any way.[/QUOTE] This is so ignorant it made me laugh, t[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ABcse7o6o"]he game literally highlights individual player skill at the end of every match.[/URL] [editline]26th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Drury;49818210]Something that caught my eye rather quickly was the sheer power of ultimate attacks. They are oftentimes much more powerful than TF2's ubercharge - a general theme seems to be giving the character triple the health, healing and some sort of damage buff/absurdly powerful attack, making killing people extremely easy. Pretty much the only way to counter that is to move out of the way, which appears to be quite the task considering most heroes move about at Heavy pace - not to mention multiple ultimate attacks use mechanics that nullify any victim's attempts at dodging them, such as gravity pull, stun, large AOE or aimbot. In relation to TF2, this means less stalemates, but a high potential for steamrolls. To offset this, they removed respawn times. Watching attack/defense matches, you can see someone wipe the whole team with an ultimate, then have to fight them all again 3 seconds later. They also get to keep their ultimates between deaths, so they can ult right back. Then it apparently became way too easy to defend, so they made cap progress not go down while uncontested. It's layers upon layers of bad decisions. Compare this with TF2, where there is a certain sense of certainty behind pushes. You have moments of downtime between respawn waves, where both teams can regroup before their next clash - this is all natural and happens even on Valve servers. In Overwatch, pushes are practically nonexistent. It's everyone fighting nonstop, dying and being revived willy-nilly more often than not based on who decided to pop what ult at what time. How can you get any satisfaction out of killing someone if they come right back without even losing progress towards their ultimate attack? How can you have any sense of accomplishment killing everyone with an attack designed to kill everyone effortlessly? How can you have any kind of fun constantly getting stunned, aimbotted and wallhacked without having any options avoiding it? How can you have any sense of vengeance killing a guy who wiped out half your team if killing him was easy and completely unfair? There is no meaning behind any decisions you make, you're just bashing heads against each other till somebody wins.[/QUOTE] I rarely died to ultimates, they are so easy to avoid that unless you coordinate really well with your team and combine them they seldom dont kill more than 1 or 2 people. Also again, I can speak from my own experience in Overwatch that it is not constant fighting, theres a reason characters like Lucio and Symettra are so potent, because they reduce that downtime between pushes, which does exist. Also I like how you trash ultimates when the entire competitive tf2 meta is built around medics uber, which is basically an ultimate. [editline]26th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Drury;49818210]Something that caught my eye rather quickly was the sheer power of ultimate attacks. They are oftentimes much more powerful than TF2's ubercharge - a general theme seems to be giving the character triple the health, healing and some sort of damage buff/absurdly powerful attack, making killing people extremely easy. Pretty much the only way to counter that is to move out of the way, which appears to be quite the task considering most heroes move about at Heavy pace - not to mention multiple ultimate attacks use mechanics that nullify any victim's attempts at dodging them, such as gravity pull, stun, large AOE or aimbot. In relation to TF2, this means less stalemates, but a high potential for steamrolls. To offset this, they removed respawn times. Watching attack/defense matches, you can see someone wipe the whole team with an ultimate, then have to fight them all again 3 seconds later. They also get to keep their ultimates between deaths, so they can ult right back. Then it apparently became way too easy to defend, so they made cap progress not go down while uncontested. It's layers upon layers of bad decisions. Compare this with TF2, where there is a certain sense of certainty behind pushes. You have moments of downtime between respawn waves, where both teams can regroup before their next clash - this is all natural and happens even on Valve servers. In Overwatch, pushes are practically nonexistent. It's everyone fighting nonstop, dying and being revived willy-nilly more often than not based on who decided to pop what ult at what time. How can you get any satisfaction out of killing someone if they come right back without even losing progress towards their ultimate attack? How can you have any sense of accomplishment killing everyone with an attack designed to kill everyone effortlessly? How can you have any kind of fun constantly getting stunned, aimbotted and wallhacked without having any options avoiding it? How can you have any sense of vengeance killing a guy who wiped out half your team if killing him was easy and completely unfair? There is no meaning behind any decisions you make, you're just bashing heads against each other till somebody wins.[/QUOTE] I rarely died to ultimates, they are so easy to avoid that unless you coordinate really well with your team and combine them they seldom dont kill more than 1 or 2 people. Also again, I can speak from my own experience in Overwatch that it is not constant fighting, theres a reason characters like Lucio and Symettra are so potent, because they reduce that downtime between pushes, which does exist. Also I like how you trash ultimates when the entire competitive tf2 meta is built around medics uber, which is basically an ultimate. Anyway I feel like I have talked enough about this, if you feel the need to needlessly bash overwatch please provide some actual evidence.

Christ. I've never seen this thread accumulate posts so fast before and argue over such a volatile topic. I think to properly have a definitive statement with this arguement it'd require for more people in this thread to acquire experience with the game and then talk about it. On another note, I actually didn't fuck up my contract progress and I'm able to get a gold stamp.

chill

Have we devolved by two years? Why are we now re-sparking the argument of "Which is better Overwatch or Team Fortress?!", also does it matter the way I look at it when Overwatch was announced was when valve started to take this match making thing more seriously, Overwatch may be good may or it may be okay (from the footage ive seen it's definitely not a bad game) but either way it's making valve step up there game and improve tf2. Edit: Poptart, how on earth do you type the much that fast?

It's creating healthy competition for the game, I think.

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49818611]Literally the exact same skillsets in Overwatch, do you think teamwork in overwatch just magically makes the enemy team die. Widowmakers still have to click heads, Tracers and Genjis have to have good combat movement, tanks and supports have to be incredibly mindful of positioning, etc. Overwatch is just as reliant on gunplay as any other shooter. [/quote] Overall the individual is not going to make a big impact as compared to the team. There's no room for an individual to make a play as the game just isn't dynamic enough for that. [quote] Which again, you also need in Overwatch for about 75% of classes. You have to manage the spread on soldier 76s assault rifle for example, you also need great precision on zaryas particle beam, McCrees revolver is like an ambassador but without the get out of jail free card that is dead ringer, widowmakers sniper rifle, hanzos arrows, tracers pistols, genjis shurikens, Meis ice gun, Junkrats grenades, I could go on. It seems like you really didn't do your research and are looking for any excuse you can find to say its bad. [/quote] are you just naming off all the character weapons you can think of? obviously you have to aim when you shoot but because of the lack of variety in movement and the lack of individual power your aiming doesn't really mean much. all about them ults, friend. [quote] I have heard the opposite from many, [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP8PtDxxHpU"]This guy makes a pretty great in depth argument for why its a great game[/URL]. Of course I have actually played and can use my own experience when I claim saying its a skill less clusterfuck is a massive load of bullshit. If you want to see a real clusterfuck of random spam, go to any valve server. But if thats not enough evidence just google over watch review/ reaction and youll get tons of websites confirming its quality. also your claim that every character has only one weapon is A.) Actually wrong as Torbjorn and Mercy have weapon switches, B.) Not entirely true because many characters weapons function like 2 weapons, for example zaryas primary fire being a beam and secondary being an explosive, or widowmakers fire while unscoped an smg, while scoped a more powerful charge based sniper rifle. [/quote] you should make your own arguments for it being a good game, not link to a youtube video of someone else's subjective opinion. Comparing valve servers on a free-to-play game with closed matchmaking beta servers is fucking hilarious. People thinking it's good doesn't make it good. Fair enough -- a small amount of characters have more than one weapon. [quote] So because it doesnt put a heavy impact on movement its bad? Does this mean classes like scout, heavy, non wrangler engineer, medic, and pyro completely skill less and have no depth? [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWpe_KMrTCc"] Also there are other characters with[/URL] [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiEYUUvURUk"]more complex advance mobility[/URL]. The push the button argument is always moronic, lel sticky demo is m1 m2, sniper is just m2 m1, thats what video games are, pushing buttons. Anyone can be a moronic nitpicker who can simplify anything in almost any video game to lel he just pushed buttons. A medic ubered at the right moment and scored his team the win, lel medic is no skill he jus push button. [/quote] how in the world did you come to be under the impression that scout has no movement depth? The rest of those classes (besides medic, who has to juke and surf rockets) are [b]specialized classes[/b] that aren't played commonly, and have their own playstyles. those videos are also frankly embarrassing. there is no skill or talent involved in wallriding or junkrat jumping. you hold a button and move in the same way every time. contrast this with rocket jumping and sticky jumping where it takes a long, long time to master the art of perfect timing, perfect shot angle, etc. you would never see "wallriding videos" because it's boring as fuck and involves no skill. [quote] This is so ignorant it made me laugh, t[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ABcse7o6o"]he game literally highlights individual player skill at the end of every match.[/URL][/QUOTE] You misunderstood what I meant by "discourages." A video of you playing is not gameplay. TF2 encourages individual skill by providing an avenue for a team to benefit from a single player's good play, not "oh look he did a thing!" after the round.

[B]geel and poptart sat in front of themselves, arguing. And arguing. And endlessly arguing.[/B] [I]"Could you please put a stop to this!"[/I] pleaded cha0s. [I]"It's creating healthy competition"[/I] is what response he heard not from geel, not from poptart.. but from the person in the shroud, Dazzgrace. Cha0s, dissapointed from the answer left again the dreaded place, for once, he would make another steady report to the Council. [B]So they still kept arguing for thousands of years, aeons of time. It is still said that when cha0s last visited the planet Tartarus, to which Jetamo and Craptasket have moved them, they were still arguing.[/B]

Geel please stop, go back to trading.

:stop:

New TF2 Update: -Dead of night has been removed from the game, alongside spy. -Skins are bloodier than before, even in factory new -Dead ringer has been updated and has been made all-class.

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