Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!

[_Pai]

Did this update break Windows Aero compatibility? I no longer see it in video settings.

[Fluury]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344350]the phlog isnt broken you fucking whiny pissbabies

learn to run away, pyro is supposed to be good in CQC and new phlog trades any ranged defense potential for more damage[/QUOTE]

Truly the weapon allowing my friend who literally has never played tf2 to get a 20 Killstreak is balanced.

It's not the weapon, it's the players.

[Steel]

Y'know, I would love for Valve to change the Backburner to its original stats, just for one day, and see how it stacks up against the new Phlog. I'm being serious here, people are stating Pyro isn't about W+M1, and I want to see reactions to Pyro having two really strong close combat options.

[Chrytin]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344350]learn to run away[/QUOTE]

The Pyro's move speed is 100%, meaning he runs as fast or faster than 5 of the other classes in the game going forward, and is faster than 7 classes (not including other Pyros) if they are back pedaling. You can try running, but he's probably going to catch up and get you anyway. And with full crits on a flamethrower, missing a single shot against him will likely lead to your immediate death. The fact the weapon rewards so much for doing something so basic is what makes it so disliked.

[Saikyo]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49344473]Truly the weapon allowing my friend who literally has never played tf2 to get a 20 Killstreak is balanced.

It's not the weapon, it's the players.[/QUOTE]

See Invuln pyro -> Register that it's a Phlog -> Back away a few hammer units -> Dead Pyro (Especially if you're a soldier or demo)

The Phlog is awful by design. It gets rid of Pyro's only teamplay and defensive aspect for a burst of rapid DPS only gained by doing damage.

If you are so silly as to want to get close to a Phlog pyro as they're taunting, you deserve to die.

[QUOTE=Chrytin;49344526]The Pyro's move speed is 100%, meaning he runs as fast or faster than 5 of the other classes in the game going forward, and is faster than 7 classes (not including other Pyros) if they are back pedaling. You can try running, but he's probably going to catch up and get you anyway.[/QUOTE]

Seven of the nine classes have movement options, be it stock movement speed or acceleration via weapon attributes or self damage, that allow them to move faster than the Pyro and clear the area, effectively making the Phlog useless.

Sniper and Spy are sitting ducks, but only if they get too close. With Sniper, you shouldn't even be that close anyway.

[gigazelle]

[QUOTE=Saikyo;49344537]See Invuln pyro -> Register that it's a Phlog -> Back away a few hammer units -> Dead Pyro[/QUOTE]

This is correct for those who use it the way Valve intended. However, having full crits to flank the enemy and completely obliterate them is what makes this thing OP. I was using it last night and was regularly getting 25+ killstreaks with it. I'd never announce to the world I had crits - I'd activate it around a corner, call for medic to cover up my maniacal taunt laughter, then proceed to get 4-5 kills pretty much instantly.

If mmph only charged on direct phlog damage and not flare guns/scorch shots, I think I'd consider it a bit more balanced. But right now with scorch shot spam to get mmph makes getting crits WAY too easy.

[Thunder_Cat7]

What happened to the santé taunt for spy??

[Saikyo]

[QUOTE=gigazelle;49344596]This is correct for those who use it the way Valve intended. However, having full crits to flank the enemy and completely obliterate them is what makes this thing OP. I was using it last night and was regularly getting 25+ killstreaks with it.

If mmph only charged on direct phlog damage and not flare guns/scorch shots, I think I'd consider it a bit more balanced. But right now with scorch shot spam to get mmph makes getting crits WAY too easy.[/QUOTE]

It's no different from the Backburner in that regard. Pyro in and of itself is an ambush class; if he manages to flank and he catches you from behind, it's pretty much game over no matter what weapon he's using. (I do, however, agree that only direct Phlog damage should count towards MMMPH meter. It's a bit silly that you can just spam the Scorch Shot and only use the Phlog for the crits it gives.)

[Mort Stroodle]

[QUOTE=Saikyo;49344607]It's no different from the Backburner in that regard. Pyro in and of itself is an ambush class; if he manages to flank and he catches you from behind, it's pretty much game over no matter what weapon he's using. (I do, however, agree that only direct Phlog damage should count towards MMMPH meter. It's a bit silly that you can just spam the Scorch Shot and only use the Phlog for the crits it gives.)[/QUOTE]

lmao at the idea that full crits on every single target is anywhere near the same level as the 25 degrees of backburner vulnerability or any other flamethrower's non-crit damage

[Yikes!]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49344473]Truly the weapon allowing my friend who literally has never played tf2 to get a 20 Killstreak is balanced.

It's not the weapon, it's the players.[/QUOTE]

yeah because most pub players are strategically inept shitters who dont know that backpedalling lowers their speed below normal and cant into movement

[Tinker]

[QUOTE=gigazelle;49344596]call for medic to cover up my maniacal taunt laughter,[/QUOTE]

Kind of tangential, but this is one of the things that I've picked up on after some thousands of TF2 hours. You can disguise anything you say by saying something else (personally, I have "Negative" bound because those lines tend to be quiet). That means you can disguise a surprise sentry going up, your charge being ready, your spy suddenly going "THE CART IS SUPPOSED TO GO FORWARD" right next to an engineer's ear.

[Yikes!]

[QUOTE=Chrytin;49344526]The Pyro's move speed is 100%, meaning he runs as fast or faster than 5 of the other classes in the game going forward, and is faster than 7 classes (not including other Pyros) if they are back pedaling. You can try running, but he's probably going to catch up and get you anyway. And with full crits on a flamethrower, missing a single shot against him will likely lead to your immediate death. The fact the weapon rewards so much for doing something so basic is what makes it so disliked.[/QUOTE]

and yet all of those classes bar sniper have reliable movement and escape options

I dont see your point

[Punchy]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344350]the phlog isnt broken you fucking whiny pissbabies

learn to run away, pyro is supposed to be good in CQC and new phlog trades any ranged defense potential for more damage[/QUOTE]

Pyro does not deserve the inherent ability to force an entire team to retreat just for taunting in front of them. He certainly doesn't earn that ability by burning a player and a half to death, which is what he already does without phlog.

[Yikes!]

[QUOTE=Punchy;49344691]Pyro does not deserve the inherent ability to force an entire team to retreat just for taunting in front of them. He certainly doesn't earn that ability by burning a player and a half to death, which is what he already does without phlog.[/QUOTE]

oh boo hoo you have to back away a few meters to get some damage off

pyro is absolutely supposed to control tight areas but if you're LETTING him get away with phlog in open ranges then you're actually bad at the game and should uninstall right now.

[TectonicImprov]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344666]and yet all of those classes bar sniper have reliable movement and escape options

I dont see your point[/QUOTE]

Rocket Jumping (without Gunboats) and Sticky Jumping aren't exactly reliable if you lose about a 3rd of your health doing it.

[Pyraax]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344702]you're actually bad at the game and should uninstall right now.[/QUOTE]
That's a great way to get better at the game thanks for the tip

[Yikes!]

[QUOTE=TectoImprov;49344709]Rocket Jumping (without Gunboats) and Sticky Jumping aren't exactly reliable if you lose about a 3rd of your health doing it.[/QUOTE]

would you rather instantaneously die to crits or live with a bit less health?

i thought so

[Tinker]

I find Phlog Pyro actually ends up playing a lot like "vanilla" Pyro, but less extremely underpowered. Being rewarded for diving into big groups of enemies and making them retreat is what the original Pyro was [i]meant to do[/i]. Now that fire has gotten a bazillion ways of getting rid of it since, the killing power for that kind of playstyle needed to be upped, which is exactly what the Phlog does. It's a good weapon, fits the class and has very major drawbacks. I kind of get that it looks dumb, but positioning yourself well to make full use of something like this can be a harder task than the pretty braindead puff and sting Pyro play that you see around now anyway.

If you want to complain about something, complain about how it takes away the sentry-protecting and extinguishing abilities from the Pyro, which is a detriment to teammates.

[Yikes!]

[QUOTE=Pyraax;49344716]That's a great way to get better at the game thanks for the tip[/QUOTE]

if you're going to blame your own incompetence on some perceived "imbalance" boogeyman then yes, please dont play this game.

that being said, complaining this prematurely is only going to lead to problems. let a meta develop instead of jumping the gun. People WILL find gameplay workarounds sooner or later.

[Steel]

[QUOTE=Tinker;49344734]If you want to complain about something, complain about how it takes away the sentry-protecting and extinguishing abilities from the Pyro, which is a detriment to teammates.[/QUOTE]
Buff the Manmelter 2016

[Thokity]

[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;49344751]Buff the Manmelter 2016[/QUOTE]

Please. I love that thing, I use to walk around maps pretending to be a vacuum cleaner.

[Pyraax]

The fact that they didn't give out free ToD tickets kinda worries me.
Did they forget about MvM or something?

[_charon]

A reminder that the Phlog lowers the IQ of anyone who sees it by 10 when the Pyro starts taunting. Seriously, even now that the Pyro has a goddamn uber glow while they're doing it, I'm still seeing people run up to them and try to melee them. [I]WHY?
[/I]
The Phlog is ok, it has the significant disadvantage of taking away Pyro's only defensive option, in return for an occasional massive damage boost. To steal something I saw on the comments of Punchy's video on the Phlog, right now the Phlog should be treated like a Medic's uber; it's extremely powerful, and can turn the tide of a match (to a lesser extent than an uber, though, since he's still only a Pyro), but the trick is that you can prevent it from ever happening in the first place by making that Pyro very very dead.

[Chrytin]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344666]and yet all of those classes bar sniper have reliable movement and escape options[/QUOTE]
If we want to get technical about whether something is balanced or not we need to look at how it performs against enemies using stock, in which case the soldier and demo can blast jump, the spy can cloak, and that's it.
Even with unlocks factored, Heavy can only use GRU (which makes his speed 100%, equal to Pyro), and Medic has Overdose, which requires at least 40% Uber to backpedal at the same speed as pyro. Also you forgot Engie; he is in the same boat as sniper with literally nothing to make faster getaways in situations where is is not near or doesn't have buildings.
[QUOTE=ikes;49344666]I dont see your point[/QUOTE]
Of course you don't, anyone who disagrees with you is just a whiny pissbaby.

[Steel]

[QUOTE=Pyraax;49344785]The fact that they didn't give out free ToD tickets kinda worries me.
Did they forget about MvM or something?[/QUOTE]
People seem to be pleased they didn't this year, as they didn't want players who haven't the foggiest idea on how to play MvM to play with them. And earlier in this thread there was mention of contract strings related to the gamemode.
[QUOTE=EArkham;49340989]I believe this counts as speculation worthy:

CTFItemSchema::GetMvMBadgeContractPointsAttributeName(EMvMChallengeDifficulty)
static const char *const s_pszMvMBadgeContractPointsAttributes[] = {
	nullptr,
	"mvm contract points intermediate",
	"mvm contract points advanced",
	"mvm contract points expert",
	nullptr,
};

CTFItemSchema::GetMvMBadgeContractLevelAttributeName(EMvMChallengeDifficulty)
static const char *const s_pszMvMBadgeContractLevelAttributes[] = {
	nullptr,
	"mvm contract level intermediate",
	"mvm contract level advanced",
	"mvm contract level expert",
	nullptr,
};

Source: [url]https://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/1/494632506576734844/#c494632506577804173[/url][/QUOTE]

[jimbobjoe1234]

[QUOTE=Steel & Iron;49344883]People seem to be pleased they didn't this year, as they didn't want players who haven't the foggiest idea on how to play MvM to play with them. And earlier in this thread there was mention of contract strings related to the gamemode.[/QUOTE]

An unholy union between MvM and contracts. Should be interesting to see killstreak effects with gold robot heads attached to skinned weapons. Wonder how long item names will get now actually.

[Magypsy]

I wonder if the Phlog will be used competitively after its rework. It was banned because you could cap and defend while taunting with its ridiculous damage resistance, right? Now it makes you invincible that shouldn't be a problem.

[Punchy]

[QUOTE=ikes;49344702]oh boo hoo you have to back away a few meters to get some damage off

pyro is absolutely supposed to control tight areas but if you're LETTING him get away with phlog in open ranges then you're actually bad at the game and should uninstall right now.[/QUOTE]

A control point out in the open is not a tight area, generally. Pyro is a flanking class, he shouldn't be allowed to play as a balls to the walls willy nilly inconvenience to anybody's face. There's a big difference between a good CQC class and being a NO ENTRY ALLOWED class.

[DrVincentWolf]

Update in a nutshell:
[video=youtube;LkiLeCI2Xl0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkiLeCI2Xl0[/video]

For some reason I heard Scout as "YEAH, I slapped my balls" and did a double-take.

[Sweater]

Just let to you know for the whole Phlog talk.
It's a dumb weapon.

It doesn't matter if it's good or not, people are upset that Valve decided to buff the Phlog which it's an obnoxious flamethrower.
Now let's talk about its cons which are also a main reason of how dumb this weapon is. You're ruining your own team just for the sake of getting your precious crits and whatever. It was a "cute" idea having a extinguish flare gun secondary to make up but as you've all seen, it's extremely underpowered and for better efficiency you want to use other flare guns.

You can counter a Phlog user all you want, he is not invincible, we all know it.