• Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!
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[QUOTE=Metaru;49354782]i'm seriusly considering a sound cue needs to be added to the phlog's taunt because people still fails to realise that they need to get the shit out of any pyro doing it.[/QUOTE] That's not how you fix the problem.
[QUOTE=Captain Chalky;49354844]It should have a different animation and a sound cue.[/QUOTE] The Phlog has an animation problem?
[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;49354846]The Phlog has an animation problem?[/QUOTE] I'm assuming they mean because it looks like the Pyro is doing the regular flamethrower taunt. But it has critglow on the weapon, and isn't there a giant light underneath the Pyro while he does it?
problem is that new players still aren't fully aware of the phlog's threat and still go for the kill. even with the uber overlay and stuff, people gather around it to try to wait for it to kill him once the uber wears off. granted, no ammount of visual/audio cues will prevent this from happening other that raw experience on new players, but as for now it feels like the pyro only gains [I]damage inmunity[/I] from taunting and not a [I]damage boost[/I] wich is why i asume most newbies try to kill him once the taunt is over. something like the thunder effect used in the eureka effect would be far better. [t]http://i.imgur.com/hRM7shj.png[/t] although i'd rather have the taunt be the second half of the Rainblower's taunt animation.
[QUOTE=The Kins;49354554]Favorite experience of this update so far: Trying out the Phlog, hitting alt-fire to do the MMPH-taunt, and noticing in the third-person view that [I]at least two other Pyros near me did the exact same thing at the exact same time.[/I][/QUOTE] reminds me of this webm I found on reddit [vid]https://giant.gfycat.com/VigilantArcticDuckling.webm[/vid]
[QUOTE=Metaru;49354860]problem is that new players still aren't fully aware of the phlog's threat and still go for the kill. even with the uber overlay and stuff, people gather around it to try to wait for it to kill him once the uber wears off. granted, no ammount of visual/audio cues will prevent this from happening other that raw experience on new players, but as for now it feels like the pyro only gains [I]damage inmunity[/I] from taunting and not a [I]damage boost[/I] wich is why i asume most newbies try to kill him once the taunt is over. something like the thunder effect used in the eureka effect would be far better. [t]http://i.imgur.com/hRM7shj.png[/t] although i'd rather have the taunt be the second half of the Rainblower's taunt animation.[/QUOTE] Imagine how silly the Phlog would be if it actually used the Rainblower taunt. It's a much longer animation. Plus the capacity to killtaunt with it just sounds oh so amusing.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49354889]Imagine how silly the Phlog would be if it actually used the Rainblower taunt. It's a much longer animation. Plus the capacity to killtaunt with it just sounds oh so amusing.[/QUOTE] If this were the case, the MMPH meter should start draining as soon as the taunt ends.
[QUOTE=Metaru;49354782]i'm seriusly considering a sound cue needs to be added to the phlog's taunt because people still fails to realise that they need to get the shit out of any pyro doing it.[/QUOTE] I agree, making enemies know 100% of times what they are up against it proper thing to do. BTW it is super easy to counter phlog, you just got to have demoman with stickies.
[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49354889]Imagine how silly the Phlog would be if it actually used the Rainblower taunt. It's a much longer animation. Plus the capacity to killtaunt with it just sounds oh so amusing.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Metaru;49354860]although i'd rather have the taunt be the second half of the Rainblower's taunt animation.[/QUOTE] never said anyabut taunt killing. namely, this sans the fire effect around. [T]http://i.imgur.com/hehPD0F.gif[/T]
[QUOTE=majan222;49355051]BTW it is super easy to counter phlog, you just got to have demoman with stickies.[/QUOTE] There is even easier way, don't W blindly. I watched Funk video showing supposed "problem" with phlog and all it shown was oblivious sniper/spy players feeding mmph each time before rampage started and shit design of some maps having only one exit from spawn. There is -surprise surprise - no problem if you play against actually aware players or if enemy has a pyro with airblast or any class capable of juggling/stunning immobile target...
The phlog's taunt doesn't need invulnerability. Either that, or all weapon taunts that do something- the Sandvich, the amputator- need invulnerability as well.
In a game with 12 Players a team you only need 1 single guy feeding the phlog to have your entire team ducked and the pyro constantly charged. Speaking from experience. It's almost sure to get nerfed next week, the amount of shit it gets on reddit/Steam Forums/probably every platform will likely make the TF Team rethink their decisions of "buffing a weapon which is already considered OP and annoying to fight against"
[QUOTE=Fluury;49355377]In a game with 12 Players a team you only need 1 single guy feeding the phlog to have your entire team ducked and the pyro constantly charged. Speaking from experience. It's almost sure to get nerfed next week, the amount of shit it gets on reddit/Steam Forums/probably every platform will likely make the TF Team rethink their decisions of "buffing a weapon which is already considered OP and annoying to fight against"[/QUOTE] Has anyone suggested that Valve make the phlog drain charge if your fire doesn't hit anything? I think that would be interesting.
[QUOTE=Shiroku;49355580]Has anyone suggested that Valve make the phlog drain charge if your fire doesn't hit anything? I think that would be interesting.[/QUOTE] Drains are fucking stupid, there has not been a single instance of a weapon with a drain mechanic being fun to play against or use. Drains always leave one player feeling screwed over and the other player having too much power in the engagement use the baby face blaster and see for yourself. The phlog really isnt even that bad, I dont get why people are complaining. The way they buffed it was dumb but you can still negate it easily by walking away and shooting him.
[QUOTE=Fluury;49355377]In a game with 12 Players a team you only need 1 single guy feeding the phlog to have your entire team ducked and the pyro constantly charged. Speaking from experience. It's almost sure to get nerfed next week, the amount of shit it gets on reddit/Steam Forums/probably every platform will likely make the TF Team rethink their decisions of "buffing a weapon which is already considered OP and annoying to fight against"[/QUOTE] The main problem as I can see it is that it charges from stuff that's not the Phlog. Like it should be this high risk, high reward thing where you're forced to go in with a gimped flamethrower without airblast to get a big boost later on. But instead stuff like the Detonator charges it too, so I find myself just spamming flare shots down corridors to charge it and get a very easy charge, then get behind the enemy team. It's an easy fix, though.
You shouldn't be able to force an entire team to retreat by yourself by W+M1-ing for three seconds.
[QUOTE=The Kins;49355656]You shouldn't be able to force an entire team to retreat by yourself by W+M1-ing for three seconds.[/QUOTE] You should not be feeding the enemy pyro 200 fire damage constantly.
[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49355660]You should not be feeding the enemy pyro 200 fire damage constantly.[/QUOTE]That doesn't matter. What matters is that the standard for earning superpowers that tell the other team to run home screaming is 2+ people working together for 1-2 minutes for an Ubercharge that requires two people to execute properly. In comparison, the new Phlog can be charged in a single successful ambush and is a solitary act, actively discouraging teamwork in a game with "Team" in the name.
The fundamental problem with both the phlog and the diamondback is that they give crits for doing things that class should be doing anyway. Not things that they're necessarily doing [i]well[/i], but things that they're just half ass doing. Burn a little, toss a few flares, done, here's your free crits. Or sap an unattended teleporter and shoot it down, done, here's your free crits. At least with the diamondback, it has some reduced base damage. If they returned the 20% damage penalty to the phlog, and made the taunt a little longer (but start the mmph running after the taunt), I think it'd be noticeably better. Make the damage penalty enough that you have to at least focus a little bit on each target instead of just blinding mowing everything down with the barest touch, and a longer taunt means an extra second of running away time. Alternatively, as someone already suggested, just have it so you can't charge the phlog with other flame weapons, only with the phlog.
If you play any payload map and have Phlog pyros on attacking team it will be pretty much 24/7 spawn camping while you just sit on bomb and manage to push it to the end all alone.
Frontier Justice, soda popper, hitman's heatmaker and more also reward the player for doing what the class does already.
not sure if you guys saw this but if you take miss pauling out of the pic there's sort of a lambda behind her [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/HOYZ4Od.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=chandlerj333;49355730]Frontier Justice, soda popper, hitman's heatmaker and more also reward the player for doing what the class does already.[/QUOTE] Yes, but look at the difference on how those are implemented. Frontier Justice only gives crits when he loses a sentry and the area denial it was providing, and using those crits means going to the battle line with a class that isn't typically a front liner. By its nature, it usually means using those crits to ensure a secure retreat (eg, sentry & forward base is down, so back up and regroup). Plus the weapon itself is much more heavily gimped with its only 3 shots; he's not to be mowing down entire teams as easily or as frequently as a phlog pyro. Hitman's Heatmaker takes longer to charge than a phlog (requires at least a couple of headshot kills as I recall), and it's main benefit is that it charges faster. It's not really comparable to all out crits, since a capable sniper is already doing that with repeated headshots. Also, the Heatmaker does less base damage on bodyshots, so there's a much more balanced trade off. I actually don't remember what the soda popper does now, so I can't comment on that weapon (though I seem to recall thinking that one of its incarnations was pretty unbalanced). Point is that phlog really does need to be revisited stat wise. Not as strong of a nerf as reddit seems to think IMO, but definitely needs tweaking. The risk/reward is just not well tuned right now.
[QUOTE=EArkham;49355804] I actually don't remember what the soda popper does now, so I can't comment on that weapon (though I seem to recall thinking that one of its incarnations was pretty unbalanced). [/QUOTE] When it first came out it gave the scout minicrits if he charged the hype meter up enough (which was charged by just running around), but a while back they changed it so it gave the scout a couple extra jumps instead of minicrits. Really not as bad to the phlog comparatively.
[QUOTE=Cpt. Cakes;49355782]not sure if you guys saw this but if you take miss pauling out of the pic there's sort of a lambda behind her [IMG]https://i.imgur.com/HOYZ4Od.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]oh [I]shit[/I] and [I]look[/I] take the name "miss pauling" take out the letters g, n, u, a, p, s, i, s, m add the characters e, f, a, l, f, h, 3 you know what you get? [I]half life 3[/I] we've finally cracked the code! we did it! hooray!
[QUOTE=The Kins;49355689]That doesn't matter. What matters is that the standard for earning superpowers that tell the other team to run home screaming is 2+ people working together for 1-2 minutes for an Ubercharge that requires two people to execute properly. In comparison, the new Phlog can be charged in a single successful ambush and is a solitary act, actively discouraging teamwork in a game with "Team" in the name.[/QUOTE] Ubers should not take you 1 to 2 minutes to build. Try not overhealing the same heavy constantly
I don't like neutering weapons; I think the only change that should be made to the phlog is a removal of the full health gain on the taunt. This means that if you're using it as a get-out-of-jail card with 20 health, you'll die pretty much instantly. Keep the invulnerability. But the weapon should be used as a strict ambush weapon, meaning that you shouldn't be using it right in front of the entire enemy team. EDIT: Perhaps a nerf in [I]range[/I] would assist this? That way if you use the taunt in front of the entire enemy team, they can run away and not fear your crit flames biting them because they're short. But if you use it around a corner, the enemy team will be close and unsuspecting, allowing you to wipe them with the nerf in place.
[QUOTE=EArkham;49355804] Hitman's Heatmaker takes longer to charge than a phlog (requires at least a couple of headshot kills as I recall), and it's main benefit is that it charges faster.[/QUOTE] Nitpicking but Heatmaker's main thing is the no need to unscope to reload. It doesn't actually charge faster. It's a fake stat.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;49356005]I don't like neutering weapons; I think the only change that should be made to the phlog is a removal of the full health gain on the taunt. This means that if you're using it as a get-out-of-jail card with 20 health, you'll die pretty much instantly. Keep the invulnerability. But the weapon should be used as a strict ambush weapon, meaning that you shouldn't be using it right in front of the entire enemy team. EDIT: Perhaps a nerf in [I]range[/I] would assist this? That way if you use the taunt in front of the entire enemy team, they can run away and not fear your crit flames biting them because they're short. But if you use it around a corner, the enemy team will be close and unsuspecting, allowing you to wipe them with the nerf in place.[/QUOTE] That would neuter the weapon. Honestly the phlog just needs its pointless buff removed and perhaps tweaked in some other way but its not that bad. I dont get why everyone here has such a hateboner for pyro, if he uses combos you hate him, if he uses his flamethrower you hate him. Maybe its time you figured out that the problem isnt the pyro who is actually one of the weaker classes in the game.
Honestly, with the base changes to flamethrower damage, the phlog would have been fine if they just hadn't touched it in the update.
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