• Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!
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[QUOTE=Zakkin;49355340]The phlog's taunt doesn't need invulnerability. Either that, or all weapon taunts that do something- the Sandvich, the amputator- need invulnerability as well.[/QUOTE] It seems like this was does to prevent Pyros from capping points while having damage resistance. They also cut the "feature" from the Quick-Fix.
[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49355660]You should not be feeding the enemy pyro 200 fire damage constantly.[/QUOTE] 200 dmg is absolutely fucking nothing to any class. especially when the last crit second of the phlog counts toward mmmph, almost instantly refilling it
[QUOTE=Metaru;49355162]never said anyabut taunt killing. namely, this sans the fire effect around. [T]http://i.imgur.com/hehPD0F.gif[/T][/QUOTE] I brought up the full taunt because it'd actually be capable of functioning as a balancing agent. A longer and flashier taunt is easier to see coming and easier to run away from. Sure, Pyro could activate in front of enemies, but the enemies would be long gone by the time the Pyro is actively moving. Only issue this still presents is that the Phlog poses a humongous risk just by [i]existing[/i] in the same way that you'd be afraid of a sniper dot on a wall. The only counterplay is to not be near the Pyro, but the invulnerability keeps him from being punished until [i]after[/i] the taunt ends and begins its crit spree. Easiest thing I could offer would be for Mmmph to not start to drain naturally until the taunt ends, Mmmph itself to take more than 200 damage to build in the first place, and for blocked damage incurred while taunting to drain Mmmph from the meter. If you taunt in front of damage sources, you'd basically lose your crits in exchange for being able to stand immovable in front of something (which has tactical uses, such as sponging sentry knockback) with max health.
how to counter the phlog: any rocket launcher any grenade launcher stickybomb and quickiebomb launcher sniper rifle run backwards while using scattergun or any other scout primary vaccinator medic (crit resist with fire resist chosen) heavy also, running away or having a team. It's so situational, it's crazy that people can complain so much about it. is it really that strong, guys?
how to live as phlog: have decent DM sense get a decent medic don't necessarily be pitted against a team of div1 good to go anywhere anytime
everything is broken in the team fortress 2.
I've met too many dropdown or corner jumping crit phlogs that insta-vaporize me to take the argument "just run away!!!" seriously. Especially on pubs where I'm physicially incapable of stopping my team from feeding. Yes, I can focus on countering him myself by running battalions and playing safe, but I shouldnt have to singelhandedly devote myself to a single player just to stop him.
at the very least, it should actually take some [I]time[/I] and [I]effort[/I] to get your mmmph fully charged it's arguably better than the buff banner at raw damage and area denial power, but the banner actually takes a good amount of time to charge up, while any half-decent phlog pyro will be pumping out mmmph charges every minute just by wiping out that scout who gets too close and lobbing flares in the general direction of the other team
-i regret everything-
[QUOTE=Melted Bu11et;49356682]including your english :godzing:[/QUOTE] srry
It'd be neat if the phlog did some sort of percent of health damage which would make it amazing at roasting fully overhealed players without punishing light classes too much. I'm sure we're going to see more iterations of this weapon, but like all of the broken things in tf we have to find a way to enjoy it while it lasts.
How to fix Phlogistinator in a skill-based way: 1) give it an alt-fire where it absorbs projectiles at the cost of an airblast of fuel per attempt 2) make this the only way to obtain mmmph 3) mmmph requires 5 grenades/rockets to fill, only gain a max of the equivalent of 1 per absorb attempt 4) can't alt-fire while using mmmph crits 5) alt-fire doesn't actually work as an airblast, thus you don't reflect projectiles for projectile kills and it can't be used to combo into other attacks or blow people off the side of the stage This would at least make the taunt reasonable for the amount of effort and would also indirectly make it less feasible to have multiple phlogs at the same time, because they would "compete" for mmmph, and this design would make it vulnerable to hitscan users. Setting it up this way also means no camping for scorch shot/manmelter mmmph fills.
Anyways, whats the contract cap per month?
[QUOTE=Creeps;49356940]Anyways, whats the contract cap per month?[/QUOTE] Define "per month." We know there's 26 contracts throughout the campaign but little besides that.
[QUOTE=The Duke;49356938]How to fix Phlogistinator in a skill-based way: 1) give it an alt-fire where it absorbs projectiles at the cost of an airblast of fuel per attempt 2) make this the only way to obtain mmmph 3) mmmph requires 5 grenades/rockets to fill, only gain a max of the equivalent of 1 per absorb attempt 4) can't alt-fire while using mmmph crits 5) alt-fire doesn't actually work as an airblast, thus you don't reflect projectiles for projectile kills and it can't be used to combo into other attacks or blow people off the side of the stage This would at least make the taunt reasonable for the amount of effort and would also indirectly make it less feasible to have multiple phlogs at the same time, because they would "compete" for mmmph, and this design would make it vulnerable to hitscan users. Setting it up this way also means no camping for scorch shot/manmelter mmmph fills.[/QUOTE] Can we just make a new weapon do this? I really like the projectile absorb effect, and it would be a cool skill based weapon to introduce. After collecting a few projectiles you could reload to get a speed buff. Downside is obviously that you can't reflect projectiles into enemies, extinguish teammates, or push people around. I'd say it sounds pretty balanced!
[QUOTE=Punchy;49356611]I've met too many dropdown or corner jumping crit phlogs that insta-vaporize me to take the argument "just run away!!!" seriously. Especially on pubs where I'm physicially incapable of stopping my team from feeding. Yes, I can focus on countering him myself by running battalions and playing safe, but I shouldnt have to singelhandedly devote myself to a single player just to stop him.[/QUOTE] Isn't this the point of the phlog though? If the pyro manages to jump around the corner or fall down on top of you with full crits then he's done his job of ambushing you pretty well and deserves that kill. Running away is for the brainless W+M1 phlog pyros that taunt on top of a point with 5 players capping. You retreat just out of his fire range and gun him down.
[QUOTE=The Duke;49356938]How to fix Phlogistinator in a skill-based way: 1) give it an alt-fire where it absorbs projectiles at the cost of an airblast of fuel per attempt 2) make this the only way to obtain mmmph 3) mmmph requires 5 grenades/rockets to fill, only gain a max of the equivalent of 1 per absorb attempt 4) can't alt-fire while using mmmph crits 5) alt-fire doesn't actually work as an airblast, thus you don't reflect projectiles for projectile kills and it can't be used to combo into other attacks or blow people off the side of the stage This would at least make the taunt reasonable for the amount of effort and would also indirectly make it less feasible to have multiple phlogs at the same time, because they would "compete" for mmmph, and this design would make it vulnerable to hitscan users. Setting it up this way also means no camping for scorch shot/manmelter mmmph fills.[/QUOTE] The thing is though is that this completely destroys the point of the Phlog. It's meant to be used as an ambush weapon, not to mention how useless the weapon would be against all but two classes.
[QUOTE=Dragadur;49357126]The thing is though is that this completely destroys the point of the Phlog. It's meant to be used as an ambush weapon, not to mention how useless the weapon would be against all but two classes.[/QUOTE] Most people aren't even using it as an ambush weapon though, they're either M1ing about and taunting in the middle of the battlefield or laying back, spamming flare shots for free mmmph and then running forward out of a side path with crits. They'd be better off just making the crits more fair and improving the backburner's ambush mechanics so that it is used more for that role. Some people are calling it ambushing when a crit phlog comes around a corner and kills you, but nine-times-out-of-ten it's pretty obvious that you were actually screwed over by bad luck and they just happened to be running forward there at the right time instead of waiting for a victim to come around a corner to them. That's not good design.
[QUOTE=Hell-met;49356335]200 dmg is absolutely fucking nothing to any class. especially when the last crit second of the phlog counts toward mmmph, almost instantly refilling it[/QUOTE] In pubs yes, against a coordinated team that know what they are doing in the slightest, no. But I dont like the idea of balancing the game around 32 player instarespawn dustbowl.
[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49357263]In pubs yes, against a coordinated team that know what they are doing in the slightest, no. But I dont like the idea of balancing the game around 32 player instarespawn dustbowl.[/QUOTE] It's underpowered in 4v4s, 6v6s and highlander against skilled players, but it's too good in 12v12 pubs now against average players. It's balanced for neither.
I played a lobby against 9 people (a highlander lobby) and still wrecked with the phlog... wiping the medic every charge, they ran but I was faster :3
"I dont want to balance the game around pubs" Sorry but you realize 95% of the playerbase plays on pubs?
[QUOTE=The Duke;49357170]Some people are calling it ambushing when a crit phlog comes around a corner and kills you, but nine-times-out-of-ten it's pretty obvious that you were actually screwed over by bad luck and they just happened to be running forward there at the right time instead of waiting for a victim to come around a corner to them. That's not good design.[/QUOTE] But that can happen to any class, not just a phlog pyro.
[QUOTE=Dragadur;49357500]But that can happen to any class, not just a phlog pyro.[/QUOTE] That still doesn't make it a true ambush, and you aren't guaranteed to be killed off that quickly rounding a corner aside from a random crit (or low health) unless they stickied the wall around the corner, were revving Tomislav or something akin, both of which mentioned would be cases of intentional ambush.
[QUOTE=Fluury;49357347]"I dont want to balance the game around pubs" Sorry but you realize 95% of the playerbase plays on pubs?[/QUOTE] doesn't make it any less dumb we're about to get matchmaking, which will strip pubs of activity and we ought to balance toward it.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;49357542]doesn't make it any less dumb we're about to get matchmaking, which will strip pubs of activity and we ought to balance toward it.[/QUOTE] Do you seriously think that competitive matchmaking is going to somehow make pubs ghost towns?
having people argue about the Phlog is almost nostalgic it's like we're really in 2011 again
The problem with it is that it only works in pubs, with the slightest teamwork the weapon becomes a clear detriment. It's a tricky problem to solve (Loch'n'Load had this same problem, and is now nerfed into being used nowhere). It exists vice versa too, like how the Direct Hit was supposed to be too strong in competent hands, while not being very good in bad ones. I'm enjoying the Phlog mostly because it actually forces teams to retreat before going back in, in the same way Pyro was supposed to be played in vanilla, but I can understand how it can overwhelm new players over and over because they aren't familiar with how it works. I just honestly don't want to go back to the puff and sting Pyro that every single loadout has become though, it's really boring.
[QUOTE=Blackavar;49357542] we're about to get matchmaking, which will strip pubs of activity [/QUOTE] Uhh... no? What makes you think this?
[QUOTE=Fluury;49357347]"I dont want to balance the game around pubs" Sorry but you realize 95% of the playerbase plays on pubs?[/QUOTE] I never said not pubs I said against a skilled coordinated team, which is what pubs actually should be composed of in an objective based shooter. The fact that this game seems to be populated by a bunch of people who have seemingly never played an fps before is not a fault with the phlog.
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