Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!

[_Pai]

The other team has 3 phlogs

[facepunched8]

snip

[Fluury]

Reminder : Literally everything he said is not 100% confirmed. Almost everything can change.

[Stormbuster]

Please Valve, go look at the UGC whitelist/backlist for weapons when considering future balance changes, they'll be really important for the health of the game, especially in matchmaking.

In the loose chance that they read this and don't read it, basically this is the sum up for what's banned and roughly why:

-Loch N Load: 3 pills is too good, would probably be fair if it had 2 and maybe some other tweak
-Vita-Saw: Retaining uber on respawn gimmick is too overcentralizing and forces all Medics to use it in a meta. Weapon is generally considered unfun in public to begin with so it should definitely receive a Claymore-tier revamp. It's current stats won't be missed.
-Darwin's Danger Shield: Surviving quickscope headshots is overcentralizing and forces all Snipers to use it in a meta.
-Sandman: Stun is too useful against targets within range of a Soldier or Sniper, especially when the victim is overhealed
-Diamondback: can be farmed for crits, both intentionally and by exploiting things such as stabbing Bonk users
-Pomson 6000: Uber drain is overcentralizing and forces all Engineers to use it in a comp setting if present.
-Short Circuit: Absorption of projectiles allows turtling extremely when used with a competent team. I have no idea how this would be fixed without destroying the concept, however.
-Crit-a-Cola: Too effective in general for the relatively minor cons while active.
-Enforcer: Unsure for why, might be the two-shot aspect when disguised initially, although there might be something else to that. It was certainly banworthy before it's nerf so it's changes are in the right direction.
-Soda Popper: Close Range abilities too easily one-shot light classes without even needing good aim

Due to glitches revolving around the items that happen from time-to-time:
-Red-Tape Recorder: sometimes depletes ammo for no reason when desapped
-Bazaar Bargain: sometimes gains headshots from missing. When it does so, it will continue to do so until you die, making it very exploitable.

Reserve Shooter, Air Strike and Loose Cannon are also on their blacklist, but maybe the Tough Break changes will suffice? I haven't tested them out enough to be positive.

I think this was [i]possibly[/i] fixed in the past, but in case it wasn't, taunts are banned simply because for years you would get stuck in a taunt animation if you used it at the end of a match reset transition, which was highly broken due to hiding your active weapon and in general destroying any ability to read what your opponent is doing, including but not limited to Pyro flames not matching their hitboxes when this happened.

[_Pai]

Here's what the comp hud looks like:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Cyodlpx.png[/img]

[facepunched8]

So valve is trying to make competitive bridge the gap between skilled experienced players, and noobies. I think thats a pretty good idea honestly.

Only thing is if competitive is going to cost money to enter, whats the point? Noobies/inexperienced player (or even some skilled players) are not going to want to pay money to try competitive when there is no reason for them to do so. I would imagine that if anything, its going to be kind of intimidating to them.

[_Pai]

Matchmaking will be out "when it's ready"

[DavidCameron]

[QUOTE=The Duke;49378489]snip[/QUOTE]

I really don't understand what you mean by Vita saw forcing other medics to use it. 140 health is pretty significant when it comes to survivability. Especially when I can choose to survive longer with more uber or spawn with 1/5 uber.

[Oast]

CTF in competitive? ok?

[GuntMyFries]

[URL="http://www.teamfortress.tv/30750/competitive-matchmaking-details-revealed"]TF2 TV made a post about the new details[/URL]

[_Dalek]

So glad no crits in matchmaking. I really hope turbine and 2fort get major reworks since the pro versions and such won't be added. Most of all, I really hope they basically do all of what [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1497826&p=49373699&viewfull=1#post49373699"]Chrytin said here[/URL]!

[Stormbuster]

[QUOTE=DavidCameron;49378543]I really don't understand what you mean by Vita saw forcing other medics to use it. 140 health is pretty significant when it comes to survivability. Especially when I can choose to survive longer with more uber or spawn with 1/5 uber.[/QUOTE]

In almost all cases, a death with a vitasaw would also be a death with any other saw equipped due to it being a mere difference of 10hp as most teams are not going to let a 10hp med live as it's better to kamikaze them than to let them go that low.

Keeping 20% uber on dropping is game-breakingly huge, much moreso than amputator's passive regen bonus or ubersaw's 25% uber on hit, as surprising as that sounds. You basically cripple your team by not using it if both teams have one medic since the other medic with a vitasaw will constantly be able to pop earlier.

The only reason it's not seen in pubs is that it's boring and unfun to use, why keep a boring, unfun and competitively useless-due-to-being-OP-by-passive-measures weapon the same? It's stats do more harm than good.

[fendermcbender]

[QUOTE=DavidCameron;49378543]I really don't understand what you mean by Vita saw forcing other medics to use it. 140 health is pretty significant when it comes to survivability. Especially when I can choose to survive longer with more uber or spawn with 1/5 uber.[/QUOTE]

the major argument given is that uber generally controls the flow of competitive games

situation a: one medic picks the vitasaw and allows himself an uber headstart at death, causing both less time for the other team to capitalize on their pick, and too much of a headstart on that core mechanic. the "only" move the other team has to counter this is to move their medic to the vitasaw as well
situation b: no medics use the vita saw
situation c: both medics use the vita saw

basically it puts teams into a "check" position at what is argued too little of a cost (health, and the choice of a single weapon)

[EmilyVasquez]

I asked B4nny if he can convince the TF team to do something about TF2's current voice chat and he said he'll let them know :joy:

[Saikyo]

If you can pick up mediguns after death in comp, taking the Vita-Saw is pointless.

I'm really interested in seeing where that will take the meta.

[EmilyVasquez]

So i donated $2 to B4nny and he says he'll talk to the TF2 team about buffing/changing weapons like the Sun-On-A-Stick and other weapons everyone's been wanting to be good for years. :toot:

[Stormbuster]

[QUOTE=Saikyo;49378619]If you can pick up mediguns after death in comp, taking the Vita-Saw is pointless.

I'm really interested in seeing where that will take the meta.[/QUOTE]

This simultaneously implies that:

-a team is ok with switching mediguns if the dead Medic used a different one
-a team won't go out of their way to prevent a Medic from retrieving it. All it takes is knowing where the Medic died for there to be contesting over it's location until the weapons' life timer runs out
-an opponent's team doesn't "control" the area around a medigun, have their medic pick up and pop the uber on your medigun before switching back if they already had 100%, or similarly using your uber against you and letting their other medigun dissipate/not be accessible due to the uber, at which point in the latter case they just ditch your medigun for their's again.

Vita-Saw takes no effort, by comparison, and is much more guaranteed.

[Saikyo]

[QUOTE=The Duke;49378682]This simultaneously implies that:

-a team is ok with switching mediguns if the dead Medic used a different one
-a team won't go out of their way to prevent a Medic from retrieving it. All it takes is knowing where the Medic died for there to be contesting over it's location until the weapons' life timer runs out
-an opponent's team doesn't "control" the area around a medigun, have their medic pick up and pop the uber on your medigun before switching back if they already had 100%, or similarly using your uber against you and letting their other medigun dissipate/not be accessible due to the uber, at which point in the latter case they just ditch your medigun for their's again.

Vita-Saw takes no effort, by comparison, and is much more guaranteed.[/QUOTE]

I moreso meant the concept of not only the medic who died picking up his medigun, but also the enemy. Carrying a Vitasaw with you can potentially also be really dangerous because it can give the enemy some easy extra uber if they aren't careful.

There's a lot of strategy to that, and I think people should embrace it.

[kariko]

Ehh I just think weapon pick-ups should be disabled in competitive.

[cha0s]

i know b4nny is a big figure in the tf2 community, but does that justify this many posts about him?

[Oast]

[QUOTE=cha0s;49378785]i know b4nny is a big figure in the tf2 community, but does that justify this many posts about him?[/QUOTE]

He's providing live facts for the biggest source of speculation TF2 has had in years.

[pepetoads]

[QUOTE=cha0s;49378785]i know b4nny is a big figure in the tf2 community, but does that justify this many posts about him?[/QUOTE]

these are about matchmaking more than about him :v:

[Tinker]

[QUOTE=kariko;49378778]Ehh I just think weapon pick-ups should be disabled in competitive.[/QUOTE]

Or just have it so Ubercharge percentage doesn't stay on dropped weapons. It's not like you have Mmmph stay on the Phlog and the likes either.

[EmilyVasquez]

To be honest i like having the Medi-Gun keep it's Ubercharge percentage in pubs so i don't have to rebuild all my uber again :pudge:

[Damoman]

[QUOTE=_Pai;49378335]Weapon bans and class limits:

-no weapon bans
-no class limits

Valve is still working on this. Further tests are needed.

[editline]23rd December 2015[/editline]

Custom maps will not be in matchmaking, including pro versions. Stock versions of maps will be updated. For example, if the tunnel on viaduct is popular it will be added into stock viaduct

[editline]23rd December 2015[/editline]

Crits and spread disabled. Custom hitsounds will work. Custom files will work "within reason".
[/QUOTE]

Oh lol, other than that no-crits thing: The comp players will have to play actual tf2 now rather than their utopian "these weapons can't be used because we aren't able to adapt" dreamland. That's hilarious. Matchmaking might actually be decent now.

[Ben 10 Fluid]

imo they should add a banning system like dota 2's captains mode (and the current way of professional comp)

Basically at the start of the map teams should be able to ban a class and 3 weapons they want and they can't be used by both teams altogether. It can adapt to different strategies and stuff

[PSI Guy]

[QUOTE=Damoman;49378827]Oh lol, other than that no-crits thing: The comp players will have to play actual tf2 now rather than their utopian "these weapons can't be used because we aren't able to adapt" dreamland. That's hilarious. Matchmaking might actually be decent now.[/QUOTE]

i would imagine anyone who can do well without most of tf2's arsenal would roflstomp everyone if they got to use some of the weapons currently in the game

i'd probably have more fun playing with weapons banned against those players in matchmaking

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Damoman;49378827]Oh lol, other than that no-crits thing: The comp players will have to play actual tf2 now rather than their utopian "these weapons can't be used because we aren't able to adapt" dreamland. That's hilarious. Matchmaking might actually be decent now.[/QUOTE]

Or theyll just ignore matchmaking and keep playing tf2 the way theyve always been.

[Tinker]

[QUOTE=Damoman;49378827]Oh lol, other than that no-crits thing: The comp players will have to play actual tf2 now rather than their utopian "these weapons can't be used because we aren't able to adapt" dreamland. That's hilarious. Matchmaking might actually be decent now.[/QUOTE]

There's barely anything banned nowadays, and banning new weapons that come up halfway through the season isn't "some utopian dreamland", it's realistically guessing that Valve might not always be the best at balancing things the first time round.

[Damoman]

I get that there is a standard meta that the large majority stick with for the optimal team dynamic.

But when they flat out ban the use of weapons it gets a little absurd. I'm glad that the tf2 team steered away from that pressure.