Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!

[Shiroku]

-snip-

[Jintei]

[QUOTE=Psychopath12;49577813]No, if a Scout gets up in your face as a Demoman you're supposed to be shit out of luck. Go directly to jail, do not collect $200.

The entire weapon is and was nothing more than a nuisance. There was no middle ground for it and no one likes to be one-shot by a stray melee hit from a chucklefuck that's bouncing around with a jumper weapon and nothing more. But then there's the flipside where it basically was a crit-on-a-stick that was used in desperation for mutually-assured destruction. [B]Arbitrarily punishing players for attacking the Demoman at his weakest range.[/B]

Sure nowadays it's not as annoying, but it's also not very notable or worth using. So its not only devoid of fun to fight, it's also devoid of fun to use -- if you consider singling snipers out the whole round to be particularly fun anywhere other than hightower.[/QUOTE]

Not exactly the term to use when the Demoman has the most amount of melee weapons that excel at his "weakest range".

Your entire paragraph can also refer to the swords he has just by replacing "bouncing around with a jumper weapon" to "charging around with a shield weapon"

[X_Sam]

[QUOTE=Jintei;49589539]Not exactly the term to use when the Demoman has the most amount of melee weapons that excel at his "weakest range".

Your entire paragraph can also refer to the swords he has just by replacing "bouncing around with a jumper weapon" to "charging around with a shield weapon"[/QUOTE]

To be fair though, I'd argue a large majority of Nade+Sticky Demomen only use the stock Bottle or maybe the Pain Train.

The majority of Demo's weapons are just too tied to the shield to use Solo. I mean, would you use the Eyelander without a shield? Maybe the Scotsman's Skullcutter, but that's a big if.

[_Pai]

404 has told me regarding the name change strings I posted last page: [quote]RE: The scoreboard team names, there's a SourceMod plugin out that allows you to modify the "RED"/"BLU" team names on the scoreboard, but a prerequisite of it working is that you need to enable mp_tournament_mode. The plugin has been out for quite a while. I believe those lines of code you posted in MUS are to do with them fixing the names not appearing.[/quote]

[Mort Stroodle]

[QUOTE=Jintei;49589539]Not exactly the term to use when the Demoman has the most amount of melee weapons that excel at his "weakest range".

Your entire paragraph can also refer to the swords he has just by replacing "bouncing around with a jumper weapon" to "charging around with a shield weapon"[/QUOTE]

He doesn't excel with the swords unless he removes his most effective weapon. When you equip a shield the class's dynamics change completely so that you stop being a damage powerhouse at mid-range and become a strong close-range class. The caber just straight-up one-shotted people if they got too close, with both your explosive weapons still equipped. Demo was still the most effective class at mid-range, and the caber made you extremely effective at close range too. Removing the best counter to the most powerful weapon in the game was a very bad idea.

[Hell-met]

[QUOTE=_Pai;49590465]404 has told me regarding the name change strings I posted last page:[/QUOTE]

fun fact

in official MvM now the team names appear as Robots and Mannco

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;49590579]He doesn't excel with the swords unless he removes his most effective weapon. When you equip a shield the class's dynamics change completely so that you stop being a damage powerhouse at mid-range and become a strong close-range class. The caber just straight-up one-shotted people if they got too close, with both your explosive weapons still equipped. Demo was still the most effective class at mid-range, and the caber made you extremely effective at close range too. Removing the best counter to the most powerful weapon in the game was a very bad idea.[/QUOTE]

close range≠melee range

if you get cabered you probably deserved it

[Stormbuster]

[QUOTE=X_Sam;49589719]I mean, would you use the Eyelander without a shield? [/QUOTE]

An Eyelander with 4 Heads + Stickies is honestly one of the most terrifying things in the game. You can basically become omnipresent winbombing that can outrun, hunt down and two-shot Scouts via just melee.

Half-Zatoichi is now also viable on a demo with stickies due to it's changes.

[Magypsy]

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49591326]close range≠melee range

if you get cabered you probably deserved it[/QUOTE]

[t]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/440/icons/c_sticky_jumper_large.94f6bc074b063cb4cd8f9df7afb1a26b2a3be0a6.png[/t]
Suddenly the Demoman is the fastest class!

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Magypsy;49591613][t]http://media.steampowered.com/apps/440/icons/c_sticky_jumper_large.94f6bc074b063cb4cd8f9df7afb1a26b2a3be0a6.png[/t]
Suddenly the Demoman is the fastest class![/QUOTE]

Its a hell of alot easier to kill someone with sticky bombs that deal actual damage than it is by flying at them with the sticky jumper

[Stormbuster]

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49591630]Its a hell of alot easier to kill someone with sticky bombs that deal actual damage than it is by flying at them with the sticky jumper[/QUOTE]

But it's also a lot easier to target a specific person constantly using the jumper.

[DrCactus]

[QUOTE=The Duke;49591556]An Eyelander with 4 Heads + Stickies is honestly one of the most terrifying things in the game. You can basically become omnipresent winbombing that can outrun, hunt down and two-shot Scouts via just melee.

Half-Zatoichi is now also viable on a demo with stickies due to it's changes.[/QUOTE]

Using the booties/bootlegger also makes it even more terrifying. 235 hp stickybomb demoman that can outrun a scout.

[Senor Muffin]

Iv been dead for a good 2 months so would someone care to enlighten me on anything new?

[Tinker]

[QUOTE=Senor Muffin;49592404]Iv been dead for a good 2 months so would someone care to enlighten me on anything new?[/QUOTE]

The Phlog got buffed and then nerfed again!

That's it.

[Senor Muffin]

[QUOTE=Tinker;49592513]The Phlog got buffed and then nerfed again!

That's it.[/QUOTE]

Ah

[editline]23rd January 2016[/editline]

Oh this maybe a little of topic but do you guys think we are gonna get any new chemistry sets soon? Like for the Frenchmans formals?

[Chrytin]

I really don't think we're going to be seeing anything that isn't a skin or hat case any time soon, if ever again.

[X_Sam]

[QUOTE=Chrytin;49593317]I really don't think we're going to be seeing anything that isn't a skin or hat case any time soon, if ever again.[/QUOTE]

Hey, we got the Batman promos that weren't in a case, so there's a slight glimmer of hope.

[Chrytin]

[QUOTE=X_Sam;49594357]Hey, we got the Batman promos that weren't in a case, so there's a slight glimmer of hope.[/QUOTE]

Well those were on the store itself, and I highly doubt Valve will ever sell any Strangifiers or Chemistry sets on the store.

[Lord Exor]

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49592085]Using the booties/bootlegger also makes it even more terrifying. 235 hp stickybomb demoman that can outrun a scout.[/QUOTE]
I love that loadout. On the topic of scary, it should be noted that the Vaccinator is the quintessential "no fun allowed" medigun. Want to grief people on a pub server? Run Vaccinator; even if you have no skill, your opponents of greater ability won't be able to kill you unless they coordinate. In a pub. Right.

[Fluury]

Something I can totally see happen is a "Smissmas 2015 for Pyro."

After the gigantic fuck-up by valve with the sticky change of Love and War, people showed they were not happy with how the demo is currently standing. Valve reverted the change, yet people were still not happy.

Then Smissmas 2015 happend, which practically went over Demo's core mechanics and most of his weapons and changed them for the good. After that, most people were happy with how the Demo is standing.

And the same will happen to Pyro ; while the recent change wasn't a huge "fuck-up" - the amount of people showing interest in changes to the Pyro is the same.

[Tinker]

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;49595416]I love that loadout. On the topic of scary, it should be noted that the Vaccinator is the quintessential "no fun allowed" medigun. Want to grief people on a pub server? Run Vaccinator; even if you have no skill, your opponents of greater ability won't be able to kill you unless they coordinate. In a pub. Right.[/QUOTE]

"Just standing here making this horrible bodyshotting Machina sniper completely sniper proof, move along people, nothing to see here."

It's really funny.

[_Pai]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49596876]Something I can totally see happen is a "Smissmas 2015 for Pyro."

After the gigantic fuck-up by valve with the sticky change of Love and War, people showed they were not happy with how the demo is currently standing. Valve reverted the change, yet people were still not happy.

Then Smissmas 2015 happend, which practically went over Demo's core mechanics and most of his weapons and changed them for the good. After that, most people were happy with how the Demo is standing.

And the same will happen to Pyro ; while the recent change wasn't a huge "fuck-up" - the amount of people showing interest in changes to the Pyro is the same.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't hold my breath, given that pyro has been fundamentally broken since the game's launch

[Stric_Matic]

[QUOTE=DrCactus;49592085]Using the booties/bootlegger also makes it even more terrifying. 235 hp stickybomb demoman that can outrun a scout.[/QUOTE]

Even though it's extremely rare to run into this combo in a pub, I've always felt like acquired heads should be lost if the Demo makes a loadout change, specifically if they exchange a shield for stickies.

Just doesn't feel right that they can use a Shield + Eyelander combo to gain 4 heads off incompetent/unaware teammates, and then switch to the SL (and perhaps Booties as well) to become a truly OP version of a Sticky Demo on steroids. It's actually way worse than the Phlog, because an already powerful, pubstomping class is buffed to a truly ridiculous level (god help you if he's skilled and has a dedicated pocket Medic as well) by way of temporarily switching to a loadout that makes getting melee kills much easier and essentially bypasses most of the risks normally associated with trying to get multiple heads as a Eyelander + Sticky + GL user. It feeds off of bad enemies and disorganized teams just like the Phlog, but it's a loadout that has far less counterplay and gets far more powerful than a Phlog user once the Demo gets his 3-4 heads and switches back to stickies.

It's something that's not really used in comp due to the unlikeliness of getting multiple heads in one life versus organized and skilled opposition, but only exist to occasionally roflstomp an entire pub team into submission.

In short, despite the demoknighting nerfs, I really feel like an Eyelander user should be forced to commit to two things: either running stickies + Eyelander and trying to get heads in a much riskier, more demanding way, or runing a shield + Eyelander and sticking to being a full-on demoknight or a pipe-using hybrid. The way it's used with a shield first to get some melee kills on your average oblivious pub Snipers, and then changed back to stickies mid-life to become a pubstomping Demoman+2 doesn't sit right with me.

But it's an obscure loadout choice/approach that's so rarely seen in pubs (thankfully) that most people simply forgot about it. I just wish it were changed in the way I stated above.

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49596876]Something I can totally see happen is a "Smissmas 2015 for Pyro."

After the gigantic fuck-up by valve with the sticky change of Love and War, people showed they were not happy with how the demo is currently standing. Valve reverted the change, yet people were still not happy.

Then Smissmas 2015 happend, which practically went over Demo's core mechanics and most of his weapons and changed them for the good. After that, most people were happy with how the Demo is standing.

And the same will happen to Pyro ; while the recent change wasn't a huge "fuck-up" - the amount of people showing interest in changes to the Pyro is the same.[/QUOTE]

Wont happen, because any changes that make pyro actually good will get reverted because whiners who cant press S and have no awareness will whine and bitch until pyro is back to being terrible.

[Fluury]

[QUOTE=_Pai;49596921]I wouldn't hold my breath, given that pyro has been fundamentally broken since the game's launch[/QUOTE]

I'd say it's realistic since the TF Team has shown they are interested in changing core class mechanics (Engie/Spy/Demo again)

Fixing Pyro will be hard, though.

[Xmarksit]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49597270]I'd say it's realistic since the TF Team has shown they are interested in changing core class mechanics (Engie/Spy/Demo again)

Fixing Pyro will be hard, though.[/QUOTE]

This is why I believe they need to discuss these changes with the community before they actually take action.
Take a totally different game like Dungeon Defenders 2 for instance, the way they take action with balances is with a influence votes for two different changes, or multiple changes.
With the vote they show on how it will dramatically change the game and the advantages and disadvantages of both.

If TF Team could somehow implement a community influence vote I think they could rapid fire changes out to the community, and the mass majority vote shall have the final say.

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=X marks it;49597443]This is why I believe they need to discuss these changes with the community before they actually take action.
Take a totally different game like Dungeon Defenders 2 for instance, the way they take action with balances is with a influence votes for two different changes, or multiple changes.
With the vote they show on how it will dramatically change the game and the advantages and disadvantages of both.

If TF Team could somehow implement a community influence vote I think they could rapid fire changes out to the community, and the mass majority vote shall have the final say.[/QUOTE]

Only if players that fit a criteria that proves they actually know enough about the game get a vote

I dont want a ton of shit changes because 75% of the playerbase is 13 year olds who installed it last week on mommies macbook who only play sniper and spy

[Fluury]

[QUOTE=X marks it;49597443]This is why I believe they need to discuss these changes with the community before they actually take action.
Take a totally different game like Dungeon Defenders 2 for instance, the way they take action with balances is with a influence votes for two different changes, or multiple changes.
With the vote they show on how it will dramatically change the game and the advantages and disadvantages of both.

If TF Team could somehow implement a community influence vote I think they could rapid fire changes out to the community, and the mass majority vote shall have the final say.[/QUOTE]

The size of the TF community and the DD2 one couldn't be more different, though.

Pyro is an incredibly tricky situation because he has the Overwatch-Bastion problem : """OP""" for new players, UP for experienced ones.

If you'd ask me I'd just flat out damage buff the flamethrower but add some kind of Overheat function :v

[Stormbuster]

My idea of how to buff flamethrowers is basically the opposite of Fluury's.

It has a damage ramp down where it starts off doing damage comparable to minicrits the moment it starts up but then drops down quickly to about 80% of current power if held. Puffing does not "improve the ramp down" consistently, as in to build up damage output it has to not be in use for a few seconds.

This makes them way better for ambushing without the inevitable Leeroy Jenkins aspects a straight damage buff would do.

[Dragadur]

That doesn't really sound like a buff.