Major Update Speculation XXX: cp_orange_x3 confirmed!

[Hell-met]

[QUOTE=_Dalek;49645751]Booties+Splendid Screen+Eyelander is a strong combo on maps without either sentries, good soldiers, or airblast pyros[/QUOTE]

it used to be an hilarious loadout, but for different reasons.

180 dmg bashes at any range + following 195 crit, that is. RIP

[Jhejh poT]

Welp, i guess it's a time for some "(idk, maybe it's not that bad)" weapon ideas?
I'm gonna give it a try then.
Booties for Spy
Gives him better move / air control
Small speed boost **OR** ability to push himself off of a nearly wall (like a ninja)
It would be a bit tricky to program this ability, but it seems interesting as for me
And ofc, it takes primary *OR* PDA slot (idk, i guess this choice shouldn't be mine)
Late x 3 Dump x 10 Funny x ninja

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=_Dalek;49645751]Booties+Splendid Screen+Eyelander is a strong combo on maps without either sentries, good soldiers, or airblast pyros[/QUOTE]

Or Good heavies, good medics, good scouts, good demomen good snipers, good anything really, oh and lets not forget the 4 clueless players who have to feed you free heads.

[BuffaloHops]

[QUOTE=Jhejh poT;49645823]Welp, i guess it's a time for some "(idk, maybe it's not that bad)" weapon ideas?
I'm gonna give it a try then.
Booties for Spy
Gives him better move / air control
Small speed boost **OR** ability to push himself off of a nearly wall (like a ninja)
It would be a bit tricky to program this ability, but it seems interesting as for me
And ofc, it takes primary *OR* PDA slot (idk, i guess this choice shouldn't be mine)
Late x 3 Dump x 10 Funny x ninja[/QUOTE]

There's already an original weapon ideas thread, linked below.

[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1250554[/url]

[Fluury]

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49645862]Or Good heavies, good medics, good scouts, good demomen good snipers, good anything really, oh and lets not forget the 4 clueless players who have to feed you free heads.[/QUOTE]

Sure, if you charge into an entire Team, then die, and then go "wow trash :^(" you'll have a bad time.

Demoknight is kinda like Spy, you pick of unaware enemies which are not by their team.

[t]http://puu.sh/mRb6l/aa21765247.png[/t]

Which works well.

[FUTURE10S]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49646116]Sure, if you charge into an entire Team, then die, and then go "wow trash :^(" you'll have a bad time.

Demoknight is kinda like Spy, you pick of unaware enemies which are not by their team.

[t]http://puu.sh/mRb6l/aa21765247.png[/t]

Which works well.[/QUOTE]

So the Demoman is a spy that can't backstab?

[_charon]

[QUOTE=FUTURE10S;49646140]So the Demoman is a spy that can't backstab?[/QUOTE]

Demoknight is a fast moving, tanky Spy that can get backstabs from every direction and may or may not have a grenade launcher, but has to get those backstabs from landing a charge properly and has more difficulty escaping fights.

[Blackavar]

[QUOTE=_charon;49646214]has more difficulty escaping fights.[/QUOTE]

this is debatable

[pepetoads]

[QUOTE=FUTURE10S;49646140]So the Demoman is a spy that can't backstab?[/QUOTE]

that can one shot most classes from any direction, not a bad trade off

[_charon]

[QUOTE=Blackavar;49646246]this is debatable[/QUOTE]

Demoknight has a much easier time getting out if he has his charge ready, but you probably used it to get into the fight in the first place. Otherwise, it's slim, but a Demoknight stuck in a bad spot has no option but to try and run or fight it out without reliable crits, while Spy at least has a gun to pick people off with (Demoknight could have a grenade launcher, but it's not so good at close range, where you're likely stuck) and invisibility to run off with if he can get out of sight or bait enemies away.

edit: I'd say Splendid Screen set Demo and Tide Turner Demo are exceptions too since they can quickly build a charge up to escape with, but they give up some of that tankiness
tbh Demoknight is more comparable to Pyro tho, they're close range ambush classes while Spy is more like close range assassination
Surprise attacks against groups of enemies vs instantly killing an enemy then running off to wait for another opportunity

[Fluury]

[QUOTE=FUTURE10S;49646140]So the Demoman is a spy that can't backstab?[/QUOTE]

Pretty much.

With the exception that when you eventually get caught you aren't a helpless baby.

[Rajikaru]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49646366]Pretty much.

With the exception that when you eventually get caught you aren't a helpless baby.[/QUOTE]

You're even moreso unless it's a very tight corridor, actually.

Aiming pipes with a 4 pipe slot is much harder than aiming the Spy's 6 shot revolver.

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Fluury;49646116]Sure, if you charge into an entire Team, then die, and then go "wow trash :^(" you'll have a bad time.

Demoknight is kinda like Spy, you pick of unaware enemies which are not by their team.

[t]http://puu.sh/mRb6l/aa21765247.png[/t]

Which works well.[/QUOTE]

I like how you compare him to the worst class in the game ;)

[Flash_Fire]

Anybody else not use fast weapon switch? I'm so used to pressing number + mouse1 to swap weapons that the hud barely even shows up it's that quick

[br0ken_]

[QUOTE=pepetoads;49646292]that can one shot most classes from any direction, not a bad trade off[/QUOTE]

Wait... the Spy isn't supposed to be able to backstab my face??

[Hell-met]

[QUOTE=Rajikaru;49646403]You're even moreso unless it's a very tight corridor, actually.

Aiming pipes with a 4 pipe slot is much harder than aiming the Spy's 6 shot revolver.[/QUOTE]

meh. revolver spread can be a complete disaster.

[_Dalek]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/UNwp2PW.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/AncYG0x.jpg[/t]
The demonight can be strong given the right circumstances

[Hell-met]

usually people prefer to involve enemies of equal skill when discussing balance

[EmilyVasquez]

What are your guys thoughts on some weapons having the slower deploy/holster speed?

[Shirt.]

not slow enough for me to care.

[Rajikaru]

[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;49647398]What are your guys thoughts on some weapons having the slower deploy/holster speed?[/QUOTE]

The weapons given that nerf are weapons whose primary purpose was to deal a bunch of damage in one hit. Caber, Market Gardener, etc., and were only given that nerf so that they weren't just buffs to default melee weapons.

My thoughts are that people who complain about those nerfs are exactly the kind of people who just want something to complain about when it comes to TF2/updates.

[Hell-met]

[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;49647398]What are your guys thoughts on some weapons having the slower deploy/holster speed?[/QUOTE]

it greatly buffs stock demo, engineer and primary->shotgun classes.

it made swords alot more boring to use.

and apparently it's a new standard for heavy melee.

it's not super good or super bad. Just another something-that-changes-alot-of-things-that-nobody-asked-for ontop of the pile.

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=_Dalek;49647233][t]http://i.imgur.com/UNwp2PW.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/AncYG0x.jpg[/t]
The demonight can be strong given the right circumstances[/QUOTE]

the right circumstances being a ton of terrible players on the enemy team all below 32 points, Because Ive gotten 6 dominations playing panic attack engie

[Blackavar]

[QUOTE=poptart TF2;49647524]the right circumstances being a ton of terrible players on the enemy team all below 32 points, Because Ive gotten 6 dominations playing panic attack engie[/QUOTE]

you act like panic attack is still terrible

[Rajikaru]

[QUOTE=Flash_Fire;49646511]Anybody else not use fast weapon switch? I'm so used to pressing number + mouse1 to swap weapons that the hud barely even shows up it's that quick[/QUOTE]

I use fast weapon switch, it's like not having to press 2 buttons, instead you only have to press 1!

Seriously there's no actual reason to not use fast weapon switch other than "I don't want to", it's like not using the full 90 FOV

[poptart TF2]

[QUOTE=Blackavar;49647541]you act like panic attack is still terrible[/QUOTE]

before tough break, and yes its still terrible

[ambaxtoxin]

[QUOTE=Firetornado;49644435]
Origin: Uk or Scotland[/QUOTE]

:speechless:

[Bynine]

[QUOTE=EmilyVasquez;49647398]What are your guys thoughts on some weapons having the slower deploy/holster speed?[/QUOTE]

hate it hate it hate it. i didn't particularly like the caber or axtinguisher before but now they feel awful to use

[editline]1st February 2016[/editline]

I honestly wish switch speed was a mechanic that was never touched, in any respect

[Brandit]

[QUOTE=Bynine;49649600]hate it hate it hate it. i didn't particularly like the caber or axtinguisher before but now they feel awful to use

[editline]1st February 2016[/editline]

I honestly wish switch speed was a mechanic that was never touched, in any respect[/QUOTE]

But then how would Pyro counter his counters???

[Stric_Matic]

Honestly, the slower deploy speeds on Demoman's sword/axe weapons are entirely unneeded imo and only hurt hybrid knight loadouts that are a perfectly viable and certainly not OP playstyle in pubs (and at least they require some grenade aim and aren't a ridiculously limited suicidal-maniac-with-only-a-melee-playstyle). Switching between grenades and melee is what they're all about, making those weapon switches take much longer only makes them awkward and gimped in a way that has nothing to do with whether they're 'fun' or 'not fun' to fight.

I mean, they've nerfed and changed some of the biggest charge-related objections that people had a problem with (critswings and full shield bash dmg at any range, TT doing full crits etc.) and the Loose Cannon, Zatoichi, Targe's explosive resists (and afterburn immunity) and Loch-n-Load potency have all been nerfed in recent patches as well - all of that was in one way or another tied to perceived Demoknight 'cheapness' way more than being able to switch from a GL to swords in normal time . I won't go into whether those were all good or bad decisions (and I rarely play demoknight and generally suck at it, so I'm not really biased in its favor in that way).

But honestly, the cripplingly slow switch speed on swords, as well as the weird and stupid changes to the Claid and the Persuader (which literally nobody that bothers posting on any TF2 forums seems to like) are just mind-bogglingly illogical and uneeded to me. They had nothing or barely anything to do with people's complaints regarding the charging mechanic on shields.

And before someone mentions that slow switch speed needs to be there to countermand the extra melee range - apart from maybe the Skullcutter, none of the swords gel with Sticky use particularly well, and all have downsides that hinder 'stock' Demos in one way or another, so they're far from being even remotely close to a 'straight upgrade' over the Bottle or the Pain Train for a GL + SL user.

Poptarts sure does whine a lot about it constantly, but I do have to agree with him to some extent that the TF2 team seem to have went overboard with the Demoknight melee changes (apart from the Zatoichi, which was dumb beforehand). I really don't think making them deploy normally is suddenly gonna make Demoknights the bane of every pub, especially after the other TB nerfs.