Team Fortress 2 Classic V3 - Games

[QUOTE=cha0s;49692868]why not make it removable cs style?[/QUOTE] The [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l3tttFTVFpiI89msw0rao0BFRfv_a-g_gOFLVFYaFfk/edit"]plan document[/URL] specifies four "wildcards" for the Agent class- basically random perks. One of those perks is having no footstep noise and silent kills. It would make sense for the silenced pistol be the agent's weapon for that wildcard, since a silenced weapon is very quiet and would make visual sense. However if this was to go on, the agent might have to wear different shoes to show that he has silent footsteps, or have a more powerful gun to show that headshots are instant kills. So far, the attributes (except for the bulletproof vest) don't have any visual notification for their existence. It might make sense to have the silenced pistol be the default gun, and for the silent kills wildcard: Simply turn down the noise for you and make it silent for other players. No visual explanation, like the other wildcards. In short, it's not an on-the-fly choice; it's dictated by wildcards.

[QUOTE=Giveaway412;49690337]I have some ideas regarding deathmatch weapons. I have a theory that, in deathmatch, a lot of the secondary weapons conform to a certain primary weapon, that they have a similar theme each other. Almost as if the secondary weapons were "mini-versions" of some primary weapons. Examples: ? = Pistol Super Shotgun = Shotgun Sten Gun = SMG Rocket Launcher = Revolver (This one is a bit of a stretch, but both weapons are powerful and precise, and operate well at medium range) Grenade Launcher = Handheld Grenade (Not yet implemented) Flamethrower = Flare gun Sniper Rifle = ? The Minigun and LMG aren't present because I couldn't think of anything suitable for them, therefore I classify them as "super-heavy weapons" that don't apply to this rule like the others. However, even excluding them there are still a few holes in this list, notably the pistol lacks a primary counterpart and the sniper rifle lacks a secondary counterpart. Because of this, I have rectified this by coming up with two new weapons detailed below (concept art courtesy of blazholten). [B]Pistol Counterpart - The Assault Rifle[/B] The Assault Rifle was originally rejected in favor of the Sten Gun, but I believe I've made it different enough to justify adding it. Essentially, the Assault Rifle is to the Sten Gun as the Pistol is to the SMG. It features a sixteen shot clip with a base damage-per-shot of 18-20. It fires at relatively the same rate as the pistol (maybe a little faster). And like the pistol is for secondaries, the Assault Rifle is a balanced and well-rounded primary that can perform many tasks. The merc could possibly come with it by default, or pick it up off the ground like any other weapon. [B]Sniper Rifle Counterpart - The Lever-Action Rifle[/B] The definite precision-based secondary, the lever-action rifle features a six-shot clip and a base damage of 30-35, and has very good accuracy. It has a longer firing speed than the revolver, and features a shotgun-style reload rather than a clip reload, but it makes up for this by mini-critting on headshots, making it sort of an Ambassador for the mercenary. It is a very precise weapon that rewards good aim with additional damage, and functions as the only designated long-range secondary. [B]Regarding the LMG[/B] Most people refer to this weapon as the Heavy Artillery, after its workshop name, but given TF2C's naming style (everything so far has more-or-less been named Grenade Launcher, Revolver, ETC. with the exception of the Poacher's Pride) I've elected to call it the LMG. It currently doesn't feature any unique animations but reuses the minigun animations. I do hope this is temporary because it doesn't look very good, instead I think he should hold the weapon rather like this: To do this it would require a modified model with a removed handle, relocated trigger, reload capabilities and maybe a moving belt when it fires, not to mention new animations. In addition to a new look would come new functionality, the current one feels a bit confusing and unyielding, while the recoil mechanic is certainly inventive and unique it just doesn't feel right and makes the weapon sort of lackluster. What I suggest is a new rework. The new LMG has a clip size of 100 and backup ammo of 100, giving it two full clips. It fires at a very rapid rate, and deals high damage although with less DPS than the minigun. It's about as accurate as the minigun, but when firing it slows the shooter down to about 20% faster than a revved up Heavy, although he can start and stop shooting at any time. Indeed, something like the weapon below in functionality, but with more damage, as a primary, and speed loss when shooting. [video]https://youtu.be/1BlKFvnsJIs[/video][/QUOTE] They are good ideas. I was thinking if we can add for DM and normal gamemodes more proyectile based weapons too.

[QUOTE=Giveaway412;49690337][B]Sniper Rifle Counterpart - The Lever-Action Rifle[/B] [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Weapons/Winchester1.jpg[/t] The definite precision-based secondary, the lever-action rifle features a six-shot clip and a base damage of 30-35, and has very good accuracy. It has a longer firing speed than the revolver, and features a shotgun-style reload rather than a clip reload, but it makes up for this by mini-critting on headshots, making it sort of an Ambassador for the mercenary. It is a very precise weapon that rewards good aim with additional damage, and functions as the only designated long-range secondary.[/QUOTE] Wait, hold up. That's supposed to be precise...? Real winchester 1887 for reference: [t]http://i.imgur.com/u28hVXG.png[/t] Sawn-off stock, dramatically shortened barrel? This is a run-and-gun kind of weapon, not a precision shotgun. How about something along the lines of the classic full-length shotgun by Svdl? [t]http://i.imgur.com/GVvpJ1W.png[/t] We don't have to use this specific model, of course; to make it less CQC-suited feeling, maybe decrease the height of the receiver, extend the bottom barrel, etc. I'm reminded of Rozzy's hunting shotgun: [t]http://files.gamebanana.com/img/ss/skins/5510a1d4c8cf9.jpg[/t] They just feel more long-range and rifle-like than something that's effective at one-hand use.

[QUOTE=Cufflux;49694936]Wait, hold up. That's supposed to be precise...? Real winchester 1887 for reference: [t]http://i.imgur.com/u28hVXG.png[/t] Sawn-off stock, dramatically shortened barrel? This is a run-and-gun kind of weapon, not a precision shotgun. How about something along the lines of the classic full-length shotgun by Svdl? [t]http://i.imgur.com/GVvpJ1W.png[/t] We don't have to use this specific model, of course; to make it less CQC-suited feeling, maybe decrease the height of the receiver, extend the bottom barrel, etc. I'm reminded of Rozzy's hunting shotgun: [t]http://files.gamebanana.com/img/ss/skins/5510a1d4c8cf9.jpg[/t] They just feel more long-range and rifle-like than something that's effective at one-hand use.[/QUOTE] what about an m1 Garand

[QUOTE=The_Rad;49695217]what about an m1 Garand[/QUOTE] You're missing the point of it being a secondary. It should be smaller. A sawn-off lever action works very well imo, the idea is for it to be a mini rifle, so make it a literal mini rifle.

[QUOTE=_charon;49695251]You're missing the point, too, of it being a secondary. It should be smaller. A sawn-off lever action works very well imo, the idea is for it to be a mini rifle, so make it a literal mini rifle.[/QUOTE] This is a tough one. I kind of missed the point, seeing as a hunting rifle is not a "small counterpart". In any case, a lever-action rifle with no stock is on the opposite side of the accuracy spectrum. Let's see. If we're going for: 1. Light, secondary 2. Accurate Maybe a tiny .22 mixed with a stocked mauser c96? [t]https://www.henryrifles.com/wp-content/uploads/rifles/US-Survival-AR7-Rifle.png[/t] [t]http://hellinahandbasket.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/mauser-c96-with-shoulder-stock-attached.jpg[/t] [editline]7 Feb 2016[/editline] I'm a dumb motherfucker. The original post had that as a shortened lever-action RIFLE, not shotgun. :v: Well, that could work then. It honestly needs a stock though.

[QUOTE=_charon;49695251]You're missing the point of it being a secondary. It should be smaller. A sawn-off lever action works very well imo, the idea is for it to be a mini rifle, so make it a literal mini rifle.[/QUOTE] Exactly. We all need to think Mare's Leg from FoF. I think that's what this secondary is aiming for.

[QUOTE=Agameofscones;49695323]Exactly. We all need to think Mare's Leg from FoF. I think that's what this secondary is aiming for.[/QUOTE] Like this? [URL="http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/577888220499029175/A990E6112534917B0D8AF79701FD0F2C89CAB0FC/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C268:268&composite-to=*,*%7C268:268&background-color=black"]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/577888220499029175/A990E6112534917B0D8AF79701FD0F2C89CAB0FC/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside%7C268:268&composite-to=*,*%7C268:268&background-color=black[/URL]

[QUOTE=Agameofscones;49695323]Exactly. We all need to think Mare's Leg from FoF. I think that's what this secondary is aiming for.[/QUOTE] what are you reffereing to i keep getting horse supply stuff

[QUOTE=ghostboy1225;49695644]what are you reffereing to i keep getting horse supply stuff[/QUOTE] It's a nickname for sawn off lever action rifles.

[QUOTE=blaholtzen;49690802][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Characters/EspionageLineupPosed.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Will the Janitor still look like his first concept, or will he go off the newest one? [t]https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55203669a4bc232b935a5536/677x884/d054b70b56e3837acae8cf058dc85404/JanitorGreen.Bowtiejpg.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=ghostboy1225;49695644]what are you reffereing to i keep getting horse supply stuff[/QUOTE] A Mare's Leg is a sawn-off lever-action rifle. [T]http://www.replicaweaponry.com/media/catalog/product/cache/8/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/2/22-1095.jpg[/T] By FoF he means Fistful of Frags, a multiplayer wild west source mod on Steam. It has a Mare's Leg as a medium-to-long-range weapon. [B]Edit:[/B] [QUOTE=Druidlyclean;49696113]Will the Janitor still look like his first concept, or will he go off the newest one? [t]https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55203669a4bc232b935a5536/677x884/d054b70b56e3837acae8cf058dc85404/JanitorGreen.Bowtiejpg.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Speaking of that, wasn't there talk a while ago about making players in Espionage color-coded by class instead of team, with the Agent being black? How would that look with the new Agent design?

[QUOTE=_charon;49695851]It's a nickname for sawn off lever action rifles.[/QUOTE] never heard that term before TIL

the color coded espionage classes is scrapped, and the janitor is probably keeping his original uniform [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cufflux;49692957]The [URL="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l3tttFTVFpiI89msw0rao0BFRfv_a-g_gOFLVFYaFfk/edit"]plan document[/URL] specifies four "wildcards" for the Agent class- basically random perks. One of those perks is having no footstep noise and silent kills. It would make sense for the silenced pistol be the agent's weapon for that wildcard, since a silenced weapon is very quiet and would make visual sense. However if this was to go on, the agent might have to wear different shoes to show that he has silent footsteps, or have a more powerful gun to show that headshots are instant kills. So far, the attributes (except for the bulletproof vest) don't have any visual notification for their existence. It might make sense to have the silenced pistol be the default gun, and for the silent kills wildcard: Simply turn down the noise for you and make it silent for other players. No visual explanation, like the other wildcards. In short, it's not an on-the-fly choice; it's dictated by wildcards.[/QUOTE] Thanks for reminding me! I should make sure I got concept art to cover all that [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Weapons/LugberVariations.jpg[/t][t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Characters/AgentVest.jpg[/t] I figure the important part is the Agent knowing which wild card he has, more than it being clear to others, now the vest doesn't do that, but I reckon some hud element tied to the health meter would suffice, similar to spawning disguised The barrel attachment could be shared between eventual gun variations as well (revolver's just an example) [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Weapons/AgentGunBarrelVariationBreakup.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Druidlyclean;49696113]Will the Janitor still look like his first concept, or will he go off the newest one? [t]https://trello-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/55203669a4bc232b935a5536/677x884/d054b70b56e3837acae8cf058dc85404/JanitorGreen.Bowtiejpg.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] So [i]that's[/i] what Beta Demo's job is now.

[QUOTE=Tinker;49697573]So [i]that's[/i] what Beta Demo's job is now.[/QUOTE] Ever since a stickyjumping accident, he was told he could never walk again. Miraculously he recovered, but was too sober to dare try that sort of stunt again.

[QUOTE=blaholtzen;49690802][img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Characters/AgentFull1.jpg[/img] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Characters/EspionageLineupPosed.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Probably just me when I say this, but I feel that the Agent's hat could probably be a little more "loose" than it is now. Like, I get what kind of old fashioned spy design scheme its going for, but the way his hat is drawn with an incredibly flat/stiff brim, in addition to his really defined chin it looks more like a Drill Sargent or a Park Ranger hat. I'd suggest maybe working on the the shape of the brim to be more loose and less ridged, maybe even drooping a small bit in the front, so that instead of it looking like a Drill Sargent, it looks more like the classic "Spy vs Spy" type of hat. [t]http://images6.alphacoders.com/480/480735.jpg[/t] Just my two cents, but its a small change that I feel would benefit the design a little more.

[QUOTE=Erfly;49698198]Ever since a stickyjumping accident, he was told he could never walk again. Miraculously he recovered, but was too sober to dare try that sort of stunt again.[/QUOTE] there was no stickies back in this state of development, nice try pal. :v:

Spy vs spy is exactly what I've been trying to avoid... I do however see what you mean about him looking like a drill sergeant/park ranger with the current one, probably want it closer to a traditional film noir fedora though [t]http://everyguyed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Film-Noir.jpg[/t] but with a somewhat wider brim. I always have trouble with those sort of fine soft shapes :/

[QUOTE=blaholtzen;49690802] [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39556064/concepts/Characters/EspionageLineupPosed.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] ALLLRIGHT I need to ask this now, what the eff is espionage SUPPOSED to be, cause at this point it's starting to look like a reskin of the default classes, but with the title of espionage my brain immidiately goes to sort of an office warfare type deal, and each of these classes have some top secret objective they must complete, with full on the spot built weapons based on the defaults/weapons assigned to their designated class type based on their skillset, then rigged to their closest default counterpart, and in some respect my brain goes to something similar to The Ship, where you have to assassinate a designated target, but I have a feeling I'm WAAAAY off here

[QUOTE=Agameofscones;49695323]Exactly. We all need to think Mare's Leg from FoF. I think that's what this secondary is aiming for.[/QUOTE] Exactly. I'm sorry if the gun I used doesn't match the purpose of the weapon, I don't know much about gun logistics. I was inspired by the Mare's Leg in Battlefield when suggesting that, and I really should have specified. To clarify further; it's a single-shot weapon, not a shotgun. [editline]8th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Insaneicide;49698374]ALLLRIGHT I need to ask this now, what the eff is espionage SUPPOSED to be, cause at this point it's starting to look like a reskin of the default classes, but with the title of espionage my brain immidiately goes to sort of an office warfare type deal, and each of these classes have some top secret objective they must complete, with full on the spot built weapons based on the defaults/weapons assigned to their designated class type based on their skillset, then rigged to their closest default counterpart, and in some respect my brain goes to something similar to The Ship, where you have to assassinate a designated target, but I have a feeling I'm WAAAAY off here[/QUOTE] It's like Trouble in Terrorist town but in a TF2 setting. The Guards, Scientists, Janitors and Office Workers are all on one team, and the Agents are trying to kill them all covertly before a timer runs out.

[QUOTE=Insaneicide;49698374]ALLLRIGHT I need to ask this now, what the eff is espionage SUPPOSED to be, cause at this point it's starting to look like a reskin of the default classes, but with the title of espionage my brain immidiately goes to sort of an office warfare type deal, and each of these classes have some top secret objective they must complete, with full on the spot built weapons based on the defaults/weapons assigned to their designated class type based on their skillset, then rigged to their closest default counterpart, and in some respect my brain goes to something similar to The Ship, where you have to assassinate a designated target, but I have a feeling I'm WAAAAY off here[/QUOTE] Its basically like Trouble in Terrorist Town, but more complex. Basic goal is The Agent eliminates all the others through the use of disguises, traps, and etc; before they can find and eliminate him. The more complex part of it is, that each separate class has a specific thing they can do that the others can't. Like the Janitor being able to open locked doors, Scientist being able to recreate Crime Scenes, other stuff like that.

Maybe it could be more SS13-esque

Friends, developers, fellow players please sit down, maybe get your nice pillow and take a look at what I've got to say to you. While I may not be a developer I have had close contact with a few of the nice gentlemen (and ladies) that are out developing this entirely volunteer work mod. Now what does this bring me? [B]Not much actually, this isn't a leak,[/B] this is simply what I think that the Dev team is struggling towards and I don't believe that us as a community is helping them currently through our posts on this thread. Now don't get me wrong I think that all the developments and attention given to espionage are wonderful, staggering even… but I think we all need to take a step back and look at the game mode that was just released. Go on, it's plenty alright to have already forgotten like this thread. That's right, the one about shooting other people, [I]while not being on a team[/I], or as we call it Death Match. Now mind you this is the first custom game mode of the TF2C team to go live, and from what I can tell, having [I]your entire fan base discuss another game mode that isn't even out yet[/I]… is well… [U]less than encouraging[/U]. Now I'm not suggesting we boot ESP out the window, far from it. I think instead that the Dev team would appreciate our input and feedback on the currently most active, believe it or not, game mode in development. We've got the Heavy Artillery, maybe a Tommy Gun, Venice and Wiseau in their final stages, I mean what's not to get excited about? In the end I know a TTT clone is eventually more hype-able (hypable?) then shoot this guy get points the game, but still. DM came first, DM wants love, and we can give it that. That's my[I] more [/I]than two cents (sue me, I dare ya). tl;dr: The dev team [U]probably[/U] wants feedback on DM rather than the constant hyping ESP.

[QUOTE=Agameofscones;49698670]Friends, developers, fellow players please sit down, maybe get your nice pillow and take a look at what I've got to say to you. While I may not be a developer I have had close contact with a few of the nice gentlemen (and ladies) that are out developing this entirely volunteer work mod. Now what does this bring me? [B]Not much actually, this isn't a leak,[/B] this is simply what I think that the Dev team is struggling towards and I don't believe that us as a community is helping them currently through our posts on this thread. Now don't get me wrong I think that all the developments and attention given to espionage are wonderful, staggering even… but I think we all need to take a step back and look at the game mode that was just released. Go on, it's plenty alright to have already forgotten like this thread. That's right, the one about shooting other people, [I]while not being on a team[/I], or as we call it Death Match. Now mind you this is the first custom game mode of the TF2C team to go live, and from what I can tell, having [I]your entire fan base discuss another game mode that isn't even out yet[/I]… is well… [U]less than encouraging[/U]. Now I'm not suggesting we boot ESP out the window, far from it. I think instead that the Dev team would appreciate our input and feedback on the currently most active, believe it or not, game mode in development. We've got the Heavy Artillery, maybe a Tommy Gun, Venice and Wiseau in their final stages, I mean what's not to get excited about? In the end I know a TTT clone is eventually more hype-able (hypable?) then shoot this guy get points the game, but still. DM came first, DM wants love, and we can give it that. That's my[I] more [/I]than two cents (sue me, I dare ya). tl;dr: The dev team probably wants feedback on DM rather than the constant hyping ESP.[/QUOTE] I'd say I have to agree with you on that, as much as I'm hyped for Espionage myself. I personally have this annoying tendency to start a project and get too hung up on what I imagine it to look like in the end, which only leaves me demotivated and leaves the project to die a slow, agonizing death. And frankly, I'd be lying if I didn't worry that this mod might head down the same road, with things like Espionage being fully planned out and hyped up before it's even in a playable state. I still have hope that this mod will turn out as great as we imagine it, but I think you're right, we should focus the discussion on what we have right now rather than the far off future. ... Sooo... I guess I should probably say something regarding DM now... Um... About that Tommy Gun we saw a while back, how exactly is it different from the full-auto weapons we already have? (Sten, SMG)

Ok, so DMfeedback. Weapons Like the rocket launcher are really Overpower(even more with crits boosting). Just reduce the DM rocket launcher blast size a little or maybe reduce the damage. another thing that is a problem is the fact if I or someone else join late to the match, we will never have the opportunity to win in 1rst 2nd 3rd place. In my opinion, change or add a DM variation with rounds. Each round has 5 minutes and the total of rounds are 5. Edit: The heavy artillery even with the recoil still OP

i understand how it can be discouraging for a team to deliver a fantastic gamemode and then have the fanbase say "great, what's next" but we don't mean any disrespect its just the fact that the first gamemode that went live IS so fucking fun and fast paced while still sticking with the games theme is a good sign things to come will be even better and, well, we're just excited is all

According to me, in DM, every stock primary weapon should be reworked to fit the DM mercenary, much like the heavy artillery which is a variant of the minigun (even if it still need to be balanced). The grenade launcher is pretty underpowered compared to the rocket launcher. The rocket launcher need to be nerf in some way. The sniper rifle is really hard to use indoor, so it doesn't fit the original DM maps, an altenative sniper rifle should allow mid-range fight and a more agressive playstyle, and since it will one-shot the mercenary on headshot, we could get rid of the charge. The heavy artillery doesn't feel that much heavy, a speed penalty(like 10-15%), a spin-up time, and not being able to jump while firing should be considered for the weapon. The flaregun is only good when combined with the flamethrower, it should be less rewarding to combine it with the flamethrower(like only dealing mini-crit to burning players) and more powerful by itself (buffed damage,projectile speed or reload speed).

that said, the merc really needs his own animations cause i can never tell if im about to get headshotted or not

[QUOTE=La Boite;49698347]there was no stickies back in this state of development, nice try pal. :v:[/QUOTE] Why do you think the use of stickybombs were discouraged for a while? It took a drunk man to find them again and properly utilize them.