Team Fortress 2 Classic V3 - Games

[QUOTE=SlickMedici;49699851]that said, the merc really needs his own animations cause i can never tell if im about to get headshotted or not[/QUOTE] You can actually see on their trello page all the work they still have to do, and that include making the animations for the mercenary. You can check it by yourself : [url]https://trello.com/b/t5V7dM9W/team-fortress-2-classic[/url]

I think the main reason a large amount of people really gravitate towards Espionage is that they find a straight Deathmatch mode to be kinda boring, I know I do. This is just my opinion of course and it's evident that plenty of people do like the deathmatch mode, but it's just not appealing to me as a Team Fortress 2 gamemode. To that end it's fine because it's a separate thing from the other gamemodes. I'm just personally more interested in the team based Espionage mode than the solo PvP mode. I do really like the Merc character in both design and personality, I do agree that he needs his own animations.

I don't think there's anything boring or wrong with Deathmatch that's making people not talk about it; it's just that Espionage is unique so there's more to say about it, and it's what the devs have been posting about lately so they're starting conversations about it. If you really want people to start talking about Deathmatch, stop posting Espionage stuff for a bit and post more DM progress.

[QUOTE=Pokepunch;49699911]I think the main reason a large amount of people really gravitate towards Espionage is that they find a straight Deathmatch mode to be kinda boring, I know I do. This is just my opinion of course and it's evident that plenty of people do like the deathmatch mode, but it's just not appealing to me as a Team Fortress 2 gamemode. To that end it's fine because it's a separate thing from the other gamemodes. I'm just personally more interested in the team based Espionage mode than the solo PvP mode. I do really like the Merc character in both design and personality, I do agree that he needs his own animations.[/QUOTE] With that said, I don't think it should be removed, I like playing the game mode with friends and shit, I mainly gravitated towards Espionage cause I really love the concept of it, and don't feel like going into gmod to listen to a bunch of five year olds and play on some minecraft map just to play ttt. Hell I only made Office cause I couldn't wait for the game mode and love the concept of an agent inside a building silently killing off a staff crew. The game-mode has that very 1960's murder mystery feel to it, and I think it really fits in with out tf2c could feel.

[QUOTE=Agameofscones;49698670] tl;dr: The dev team [U]probably[/U] wants feedback on DM rather than the constant hyping ESP.[/QUOTE] This, a thousand times this! I think the community is jumping the gun to say the least. It's perfectly normal to speculate and get excited over new content, but DM is the current focus and is in need of some feedback. On a side not I think it's important to look to other arena shooters like [I]QUAKE 3:Arena [/I] for inspiration on weapon balance and placement, and TF2 for artstyle and aesthetic. I think map's like Wiseau and Grain look amazing, but they could use some re-balance to be the best they can be. Looking again to Q3A I think something that could be beneficial to DM would be dropping power-ups after you die. In Q3A power up's are designed to make the player feel as if they are at both an advantage and a disadvantage. Once you consume a power-up you become a powerhouse of carnage, but also a target to other players. When you die with a power-up in Q3A it drops where you died, however the timer is still ticking away. This encourages players to gang up on you and fend for what's left of your power up in hopes of getting some extra frags. This is a great mechanic, that TF2C DM could greatly benefit from. In it's current state, DM power ups are only to your advantage. I also think the Übercharge power-up should be replaced with an Overhealer. The Übercharge is not balanced. It turns out it's not fun fighting against an unstoppable god. It encourages players to run away rather than congregate for frags. Replacing this item with an Overhealer (and incorporating a dropped power-up system) would be a far superior option. Now players are encouraged to gang up on the Overhealed merc in hopes of killing his super powered foe, and quickly healing what little health he had left in order decimate his less than lucky comrades. I also encourage the community to come up with ideas and even rough out new deathmatch maps in hammer. Possibly collaborate with others and bring unique and fun maps to DM. A game mode is only as good as it's maps (for more see tc_hydro) and DM could use some new original maps. I've talked to a few people eager to make maps for TF2C, but they quickly become discouraged and think they can't make something as good the dev team or even Valve. Dust and dust2 were both community maps for the original counter strike beta. Both ended up overshadowing the dev's maps and even ended up shipping with the game! So don't loose hope. You guys have an entire community of mappers and and artists to collaborate with. TF2C can be amazing, but now without your support. So let's get our heads back in the game and make this mod the best it can be! EDIT: I also think DM could benefit from a time remaining at the top of the hud.

Perhaps the Mercenary could get some random "cosmetics" from the nine stock classes? (not hats but things like the heavy's ammo bandoleer or the sniper's hat). Pic for reference. [t] http://orig08.deviantart.net/2e2a/f/2016/037/b/7/cosmetic_lust_by_mrdrproftoaster-d9qq7f5.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=MrDrToaster;49700305]Perhaps the Mercenary could get some random "cosmetics" from the nine stock classes? (not hats but things like the heavy's ammo bandoleer or the sniper's hat). Pic for reference. [t] http://orig08.deviantart.net/2e2a/f/2016/037/b/7/cosmetic_lust_by_mrdrproftoaster-d9qq7f5.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] He is supposed to be his own unique character, it doesn't make much sense to me for the mercenary to wear any of the other classes' clothing. Might as well just give the Sniper a gas mask at that point.

not to mention it would make his design look really messy that gmod pose displays that well

[T]http://i.imgur.com/MEpbBOe.png[/T] It's gray, probably gay, and some other things. Though it's coming along I suppose. I really need to get a more colorful roof texture though.

[QUOTE=Moonrat;49700496][T]http://i.imgur.com/MEpbBOe.png[/T] It's gray, probably gay, and some other things. Though it's coming along I suppose. I really need to get a more colorful roof texture though.[/QUOTE] What gamemode are you making it for?

[QUOTE=EonDynamo;49700618]What gamemode are you making it for?[/QUOTE] Deathmatch

The players should get more kill points for killing those who're at the top of the scoreboard so that people who just came into the game will have a chance to win. Also highlight the 1st leader. It might just make it more interesting.

[QUOTE=NeverLose;49702305]The players should get more kill points for killing those who're at the top of the scoreboard so that people who just came into the game will have a chance to win.[/QUOTE] This definitely sounds worth trying. [QUOTE=NeverLose;49702305]Also highlight the 1st leader. It might just make it more interesting.[/QUOTE] But I feel like this would just make it a pain to be in 1st place and impossible to hold your position, everyone is going after you and you can't surprise anyone.

If I may make some suggestions for the Death match mode? If the developers are preparing for a release build of DM in the near future and are in need of feedback, I'd think making sure key things are added in as a priority, I know these are already planned, but they kind of need addressing. Firstly the DM Merc needs various weapon animations for the world model, so when you're looking at another player and see the animations. Currently the Merc holds weapons that aren't the basic soldier stock items in a glitched and broken way, such as the double barred shotgun and flamethrower held as a rocket launcher, or going into a civilian pose if he tries scoping in on a sniper. Not only does this look off but it makes fighting someone a lot harder, especially with the sniper scoped pose, you can't tell what their doing at all. Having the weapon animations also will improve the polish of the game mode which it will want for the release and will help with balancing some of the weapons. Secondly would be making sure there is more finished and art pass'd maps maps for release. Wiseau is a great map and that could be the map to showcase the mode when it's all ready to be released but we need a few more maps to show off the game as well. The rest of my thoughts are thing's that don't need to be done, but I'd think would help make the mode even more great than it already is. Such as adding kill streaks as a server wide UI and sound notification, so that when someone's going on a good run with plenty of kills, it shows up on the screen like 'Player is on a rampage 15 kill streak.' like the classic death match's of the past such as quake arena. As well as adding more voice lines so that the merc reacts to things, perhaps after dominating a player or killing a certain amount. Maybe even have unique kill voice lines with certain weapons like the flamethrower for example. I just feel personally, the merc needs to be more talkative in the mode itself. That's all, I hope this is okay?

would just like to point at that there's no point in suggesting voice lines and non-soldier-and-T-posing animations for the Mercenary, because the first of those things has been talked about and shown off several times, and the second is obviously going to happen eventually same goes for more finished maps, they're not going to leave them unfinished and they're hoping more mappers will come along and develop them

[QUOTE=_charon;49702620]would just like to point at that there's no point in suggesting voice lines and non-soldier-and-T-posing animations for the Mercenary, because the first of those things has been talked about and shown off several times, and the second is obviously going to happen eventually same goes for more finished maps, they're not going to leave them unfinished and they're hoping more mappers will come along and develop them[/QUOTE] I'm aware that these are all planned or in development, I've seen all the posts about prototype's and ideas and its not necessarily what I meant. I know these are things people in the team are aware of. My point was simply to focus on getting those done when you're able to, as it would help with making further suggestions on balancing etc. That's all. Same goes for maps, I'm aware they're being worked on, it's more that we could do with more at the same amount of quality as Wiseu and 2fort. It be great to see some maps redesigned into death match as well.

When is the next Update, just asking and what comes inside?

[QUOTE=Jazz Gorilla;49702605]If I may make some suggestions for the Death match mode? If the developers are preparing for a release build of DM in the near future and are in need of feedback, I'd think making sure key things are added in as a priority, I know these are already planned, but they kind of need addressing. Firstly the DM Merc needs various weapon animations for the world model, so when you're looking at another player and see the animations. Currently the Merc holds weapons that aren't the basic soldier stock items in a glitched and broken way, such as the double barred shotgun and flamethrower held as a rocket launcher, or going into a civilian pose if he tries scoping in on a sniper. Not only does this look off but it makes fighting someone a lot harder, especially with the sniper scoped pose, you can't tell what their doing at all. Having the weapon animations also will improve the polish of the game mode which it will want for the release and will help with balancing some of the weapons. Secondly would be making sure there is more finished and art pass'd maps maps for release. Wiseau is a great map and that could be the map to showcase the mode when it's all ready to be released but we need a few more maps to show off the game as well. The rest of my thoughts are thing's that don't need to be done, but I'd think would help make the mode even more great than it already is. Such as adding kill streaks as a server wide UI and sound notification, so that when someone's going on a good run with plenty of kills, it shows up on the screen like 'Player is on a rampage 15 kill streak.' like the classic death match's of the past such as quake arena. As well as adding more voice lines so that the merc reacts to things, perhaps after dominating a player or killing a certain amount. Maybe even have unique kill voice lines with certain weapons like the flamethrower for example. I just feel personally, the merc needs to be more talkative in the mode itself. That's all, I hope this is okay?[/QUOTE] They said third person weapon animations are a pain to deal with, but that they'll have to do it for the Merc and any other classes in the future. I don't really see why it's so hard.

[QUOTE=Gsilverleaf;49702824]They said third person weapon animations are a pain to deal with, but that they'll have to do it for the Merc and any other classes in the future. I don't really see why it's so hard.[/QUOTE] What is hard is finding someone willing to animate his third person animations :v: if you know anyone send them our way

[QUOTE=Gsilverleaf;49702824]I don't really see why it's so hard.[/QUOTE] Aim matrixes are a bitch to make from what I've heard.

[QUOTE=OneFourth;49702911]What is hard is finding someone willing to animate his third person animations :v: if you know anyone send them our way[/QUOTE] Yeah, three animators is really low. Generally, I'd say you guys need a minimum of at least 6-7 animators. I don't have any animators I could send your way, but to make third person animations look good, I would say to make them look bad at first, so you can assure they work and don't mess up and you waste your time making it. As time goes on, you can improve on them. That's just me though.

[QUOTE=OneFourth;49702911]What is hard is finding someone willing to animate his third person animations :v: if you know anyone send them our way[/QUOTE] Thats explain why the civilian don't have animations :V

[QUOTE=blaholtzen;49698353]Spy vs spy is exactly what I've been trying to avoid... I do however see what you mean about him looking like a drill sergeant/park ranger with the current one, probably want it closer to a traditional film noir fedora though [t]http://everyguyed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Film-Noir.jpg[/t] but with a somewhat wider brim. I always have trouble with those sort of fine soft shapes :/[/QUOTE] So something like the Messenger from the WAR! comic? [IMG]https://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/4/43/Mysterious_Individual.jpg?t=20101022022454[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Pokepunch;49699911]I think the main reason a large amount of people really gravitate towards Espionage is that they find a straight Deathmatch mode to be kinda boring, I know I do. This is just my opinion of course and it's evident that plenty of people do like the deathmatch mode, but it's just not appealing to me as a Team Fortress 2 gamemode. To that end it's fine because it's a separate thing from the other gamemodes. I'm just personally more interested in the team based Espionage mode than the solo PvP mode. I do really like the Merc character in both design and personality, I do agree that he needs his own animations.[/QUOTE]It's because it's easier to be hyped about something that hasn't had line one coded yet in comparison to something that actually exists. Just ask the Half-Life community.

[QUOTE=msalinas2877;49703020]Thats explain why the civilian don't have animations :V[/QUOTE] we've got an animator for the civilian. right now the model has some temporary animations. theyve been updated since this video. [video=youtube;oBeHySGqXG8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBeHySGqXG8[/video]

[QUOTE=OneFourth;49705417]we've got an animator for the civilian. right now the model has some temporary animations. theyve been updated since this video. [video=youtube;oBeHySGqXG8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBeHySGqXG8[/video][/QUOTE] Is the civilian going to have 200 HP ? It looks like a lot to me, I know he can't really defend himself but I don't think he should be able to tank that much damage.

The Maritime theme doesn't seem to be doing it for my map. I just have a gray mess that I can't seem to fix. So, I restarted detailing. [T]http://i.imgur.com/10G6InQ.png[/T] [T]http://i.imgur.com/HYHmdi9.png[/T] It's still rather gray, but I'm hoping I can use it to create a unified color pallete that has some splashes of color to jump out and make the map look cool.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49706404]\and here two more screenshots to highlight the "issue" in detail; \[/QUOTE] Honestly it's more or less a not issue, its a muddy texture in an inaccessible part of the map. If it really bugs you the TF2 texture improvement project's textures should work just fine with TF2C.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;49706441]have you read the entire thing? what i mean is that it's very noticable on higher resolutions (like 1080p and above) when standing on the roof of the bridge in the center of the map for example also i didn't know that tf2 tip updated that texture too, in that case i should check that out then[/QUOTE] Also if I'm not mistaken that's just a regular dirt texture with some crazy material size to give that look. If it was a proper size it would have obvious tiling and look worse than a dodgy shadowmap. The only way around this is to replace it with some sort of supertexture (like something that is 2048 x 2048, so that the tiling is less obvious) but once again this is a non issue. I think the fix would honestly be to just open the map in hammer and assign a new texture size so that the shadowmap will follow suit, which would look worse imo. [editline]9th February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Moonrat;49705944]The Maritime theme doesn't seem to be doing it for my map. I just have a gray mess that I can't seem to fix. So, I restarted detailing.[/QUOTE] Honestly I think it's looking really good so far. I would be far more concerned play-testing the map and making sure the gameflow and balance are good, before focusing to much on art pass of any kind.

[QUOTE=EonDynamo;49706734]The only way around this is to replace it with some sort of supertexture (like something that is 2048 x 2048, so that the tiling is less obvious) but once again this is a non issue. [/QUOTE] [t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31115055/ShareX/2016-02/2016-02-09_13-01-40.png[/t] It's just a giant 2048x2048 texture across all of that.