Team Fortress 2 Classic V3

[DrewB]

[QUOTE=LondierX;50510575]Do the rockets still have their arc on airblast?

Also, here's how I predict the RPG might play out.

You know Mortars?

Yeah, across longer distances/longer maps, one might be using it like that: and thanks to the arc, a weakness for Soldiers: the mighty wall, is kinda mitigated if the RPG is aimed/used correctly[/QUOTE]

yes, the rockets have the arc upon being airblasted.

[QUOTE=cha0s above]Speaking of airblast, what are the chances of it being weapon specific?[/QUOTE]

explain?

[cha0s]

like an new flamethrower that does less damage but has airblast, while stock wont have airblast, tbh i just dont like airblast.

[DrewB]

[QUOTE=cha0s;50511522]like an new flamethrower that does less damage but has airblast, while stock wont have airblast, tbh i just dont like airblast.[/QUOTE]

we'll see

[Barbarossa]

[QUOTE=cha0s;50511522]like an new flamethrower that does less damage but has airblast, while stock wont have airblast, tbh i just dont like airblast.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I think removing the airblast is a very bad idea. In fact, I think having any flamethrower without the airblast, or at least a similar alt-fire method, would not work. As we've seen with the Phlogistinator and the Backburner, having 'no airblast' as a downside just makes it a free upgrade for people who aren't good at using it, and it encourages - if not outright rewards - W+M1 play.

[LondierX]

[QUOTE=Barbarossa;50511946]In fact, I think having any flamethrower without the airblast, or at least a similar alt-fire method, would not work. As we've seen with the Phlogistinator and the Backburner, having 'no airblast' as a downside just makes it a free upgrade for people who aren't good at using it, and it encourages - if not outright rewards - W+M1 play.[/QUOTE]

This is just wrong altogether. W+M1 play is still punishable without airblast, and the fact that you think the lack of airblast REWARDS W+M1 play is absolutely ridiculous. Any idiot can just move forward while holding the fire key, but they'd just be killed on sight.

Players prior to the Pyro update have survived without airblast, they used proper positioning, ambush tactics, and general chaos to their advantage.

Airblast gives the Pyro the capability to compete with his 2 midrange threats, the Soldier and the Demoman, take movement away from/enviornmentally KILL enemy players at the proper range, and extinguish friendly teammates.

The Pyro was meant to be strong at close range, and with airblast, the pyro's ability to effectively counter Soldiers/Demos with proper airblast play gets rid of his main weakness against 2 classes: Mid to Long range combat, forcing his enemies to either play smarter(shoot floor/wall near the Pyro if at all possible) or switch to their hitscan weapons

[Moonrat]

[QUOTE=LondierX;50512335]This is just wrong altogether. W+M1 play is still punishable without airblast, and the fact that you think the lack of airblast REWARDS W+M1 play is absolutely ridiculous. Any idiot can just move forward while holding the fire key, but they'd just be killed on sight.

Players prior to the Pyro update have survived without airblast, they used proper positioning, ambush tactics, and general chaos to their advantage.

Airblast gives the Pyro the capability to compete with his 2 midrange threats, the Soldier and the Demoman, take movement away from/enviornmentally KILL enemy players at the proper range, and extinguish friendly teammates.

The Pyro was meant to be strong at close range, and with airblast, the pyro's ability to effectively counter Soldiers/Demos with proper airblast play gets rid of his main weakness against 2 classes: Mid to Long range combat, forcing his enemies to either play smarter(shoot floor/wall near the Pyro if at all possible) or switch to their hitscan weapons[/QUOTE]

I think the thing with the Backburner and Phlog is that it rewards W+M1 by removing the airblast, and giving the Pyro other abilities that aren't as useful.

Removing the airblast brings the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level, meaning that as good as you are with the Phlog is as good as you'll ever be. The airblast does take learning, but it's an incredibly worthy tool for the Pyro as you've pointed out.

Problem is, when you get the option to drop the best ability the Pyro has, and one that you don't know how to use for a less useful ability that is easy to understand, most beginning Pyros take it. And since these Pyros are beginners, they don't understand proper positioning and tactics, and will simply rush any targets they want to.

This is how the Backburner/Phlog could reward W+M1 play, by removing the skill ceiling and not teaching the player a damn thing about playing Pyro. [I](Even though oddly enough the Backburner's main buff is an ambush thing, no Pyro I've ever seen uses that buff.)[/I]

[Barbarossa]

[QUOTE=Moonrat;50515945]I think the thing with the Backburner and Phlog is that it rewards W+M1 by removing the airblast, and giving the Pyro other abilities that aren't as useful.

Removing the airblast brings the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level, meaning that as good as you are with the Phlog is as good as you'll ever be. The airblast does take learning, but it's an incredibly worthy tool for the Pyro as you've pointed out.

Problem is, when you get the option to drop the best ability the Pyro has, and one that you don't know how to use for a less useful ability that is easy to understand, most beginning Pyros take it. And since these Pyros are beginners, they don't understand proper positioning and tactics, and will simply rush any targets they want to.

This is how the Backburner/Phlog could reward W+M1 play, by removing the skill ceiling and not teaching the player a damn thing about playing Pyro. [I](Even though oddly enough the Backburner's main buff is an ambush thing, no Pyro I've ever seen uses that buff.)[/I][/QUOTE]

Thanks for summing that up, that's pretty much exactly what I meant. Simply having no airblast doesn't promote W+M1, but having the choice of either a less powerful flamethrower with an airblast or a more powerful flamethrower without one, that's what gives those people essentially a free upgrade.

[Drury]

[QUOTE=Moonrat;50515945]I think the thing with the Backburner and Phlog is that it rewards W+M1 by removing the airblast, and giving the Pyro other abilities that aren't as useful.

Removing the airblast brings the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level, meaning that as good as you are with the Phlog is as good as you'll ever be. The airblast does take learning, but it's an incredibly worthy tool for the Pyro as you've pointed out.

Problem is, when you get the option to drop the best ability the Pyro has, and one that you don't know how to use for a less useful ability that is easy to understand, most beginning Pyros take it. And since these Pyros are beginners, they don't understand proper positioning and tactics, and will simply rush any targets they want to.

This is how the Backburner/Phlog could reward W+M1 play, by removing the skill ceiling and not teaching the player a damn thing about playing Pyro. [I](Even though oddly enough the Backburner's main buff is an ambush thing, no Pyro I've ever seen uses that buff.)[/I][/QUOTE]

I think airblast lowers the skill ceiling to a disgustingly low level but that's just me.

[cha0s]

not to mention its extremely annoying.

[OneFourth]

what about a cooldown for airblast that increases if you try to chain it? so you could reflect one rocket, maybe dodge the second, and maybe reflect the third

[John N. Workovi]

What about Airblast(AB) Jumping?

Would that work?

And I think that having a default with regular TF2 stats and a Flametrower with stronger airblast would be quite interesting with AB jumps.

[Frying Dutchman]

[QUOTE=OneFourth;50519910]what about a cooldown for airblast that increases if you try to chain it? so you could reflect one rocket, maybe dodge the second, and maybe reflect the third[/QUOTE]
The big downgrade of already doing that as a pyro is that most if not all of your ammo is gone if you keep spamming the airblast.
Plus by the second blast the pyro should have closed the gap between themselves and the enemy significantly.

Most of the hate against the airblast from people is that it affects their movement, they can get completely blocked or stuck in a corner by a pyro spamming their blast.
A solution to counter this that the airblast does less knockback after each blast in rapid succession.
For example, first airblast = full knockback
second 2/3rd knocback
third 1/3rd knockback
fourth and onwards no effect at all.

What this does is counter frustration from opposing players by being it less intrusive on their movements.
It helps counter bad behaviour from pyros as well, teaches them not to spam and conserve their ammo better and use their airblast with more thought.

How much it knockbacks requires testing, as well as upping the ammo cost from 25 to 30 or even 35 could probably solve most if not all annoyances from players facing the blast while keeping the ability perfectly viable to use for the pyro.

[Nitronik]

Wasn't airblast thoroughly discussed before?

I remember y'all coming to the conclusion of either leaving it as-is without the player knockback abilities, or just slowing down its refire rate

[NicknineTheEagle]

[QUOTE=NitronikALT;50520980]Wasn't airblast thoroughly discussed before?

I remember y'all coming to the conclusion of either leaving it as-is without the player knockback abilities, or just slowing down its refire rate[/QUOTE]

Current airblast firing interval is 0.75s but I have a feeling it used to be longer in live TF2.

[Su_Bu]

What if the pyro has to charge the airblast by holding down the right mouse button, releasing it to do the airblast? A very short duration to charge but enough that it means the player needs to time and plan the blast rather than it become a spontaneous thing to spam.

[iiboharz]

Leave the airblast as it is, it's fine.

[DrDonut]

If you make any changes to airblast, please make it so it pushes players back in a matter that makes sense, instead of the same exact arc that ignores all existing forces.

[DrewB]

[url]https://www.twitch.tv/rageguy583[/url]

devs are playing, feel free to watch or join, we'll have a another dev moderating/anwsering questions in the chat soon.

[Ott]

How about making airblast push the player back the same distance it pushes enemies back? And somehow make sure that players can't go faster (overall) by airblasting behind them repeatedly.

[DrDonut]

I think just making act like a rocket launcher-type blast works well. It still knocks players back, but adds some variance based on the angle you hit them with it.

[NicknineTheEagle]

[QUOTE=Dr. Doughnut;50522610]If you make any changes to airblast, please make it so it pushes players back in a matter that makes sense, instead of the same exact arc that ignores all existing forces.[/QUOTE]

It's kind of already like that, unlike live TF2 our airblast doesn't cancel all momentum.

[John N. Workovi]

didn't the Tough Break update remove the Stunlock effect of the Airblast, so you can airstrafe when you are blasted? Or did I miss something?

Also, would someone be kind enough to list the current arsenal of TF2C?

I am not sure but it is Stocks and some new stuffs like the Nailgun, Poacher's Rifle flaregun and some other things, right?

Does the Scattergun have a dual barrel fire mode or is that something I would like it to have but it does not have it?

I mean the Concept of it is fraking awesome! dual Barreled scattergun.

Does it have different animations?

[maxfield]

We should never mention the tough break update ever again. It's an abomination.

[Raptor Dan]

[QUOTE=John N. Workovi;50532322]didn't the Tough Break update remove the Stunlock effect of the Airblast, so you can airstrafe when you are blasted? Or did I miss something?[/QUOTE]

Only on the second airblast.

[MaartenS11]

I have captured some of the important shots from the devstream.
[T]http://i.imgur.com/FfUIzXq.png[/T]
[T]http://i.imgur.com/fjoLXyU.png[/T]
[T]http://i.imgur.com/Ixh22EC.png[/T]
[T]http://i.imgur.com/uC8gvkR.png[/T]
And....... Vip maps
[T]http://i.imgur.com/ADWBmk8.png[/T]

[DrewB]

[QUOTE=MaartenS11;50533055]I have captured some of the important shots from the devstream.
[T]https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AAAJM0GCaG4-K1egdwjXD7qiM4G7yN7fLQFLMQKd3xppfg/12/480336293/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/tf2classic%20dynamite%20pack.png/EKrUrPIDGOECIAcoBw/bMgB3JwQVXpkO-nuW0p1ohIQ94qMIVdSOMfTJlEgUN0?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3[/T]
[T]https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AAA68TCWxMpehsX1-znCBJwpEFuJ2uvp0l7ifG3aBhuuzQ/12/480336293/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/tf2classic%20bfg.png/EKrUrPIDGOECIAcoBw/5Jf4uWqoAcfDekmNnEZyMIqeGyt3upW3EQlUNduSix8?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3[/T]
[T]https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AADvNvqLE0P_FKVhAwzZ3ciY9nIHLdFlhPdrdDdXRkzy8A/12/480336293/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/tf2%20classic%20wiseau%20rc2.png/EKrUrPIDGOECIAcoBw/oOkIbj-78iIJbX-6ffuHP06CNJ-C9DK4zg-5DACKPRM?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3[/T]
[T]https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AABUS8I3ythMJ-c4w1qiCXnr8Gimn693FJMnRMeoC2rf7A/12/480336293/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/tf2%20classic%20wiseau%20rc2%20nr2.png/EKrUrPIDGOECIAcoBw/-UF-O07LvjF5QDHeJUI-rxa3k1XuL30A21yTmqXD1zE?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3[/T]
And....... Vip maps
[T]https://photos-4.dropbox.com/t/2/AAAlMNKvZNTsWQ2fPNYo1cCOOASHFJl2BBK76vVpxWgSgw/12/480336293/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/tf2%20classic%20vip%20map.png/EKrUrPIDGOECIAcoBw/N4Z_ERiRDKWJ23I384D0-ikhixhKWQrCMF5X9QIg_Q0?size=1600x1200&size_mode=3[/T][/QUOTE]

might wanna fix those

[Barbarossa]

[QUOTE=MaartenS11;50533055][T]http://i.imgur.com/fjoLXyU.png[/T][/QUOTE]

What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.

[Petachepas]

[QUOTE=Barbarossa;50534610]What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.[/QUOTE]

Its like a portal gun... as it has teleporter halves in the front :v:

[Dr_Lazlo]

[QUOTE=Barbarossa;50534610]What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.[/QUOTE]Gravity gun.

[rolf]

[QUOTE=Barbarossa;50534610]What gun is that? It looks kind of like the TF2 equivalent of a BFG9000.[/QUOTE]

I never realized how much I would want the BFG in deathmatch until now, maybe a one shot deal that also destroys weapons in your proximity, leaving you vunurable after use?

It's pretty obviously either a gravity gun or a portal gun though because of that handle thats on the side