Also, you need to actually do something to get mmph.
With sandvich, all you need to do is wait, or touch a resupply locker.
that, and Heavy in general is much more tanky than a pyro. Especially considering phlog makes you give up one of your most useful defensive tools.
The sandvich is a medic replacement. You're in the field, you're hurt, you have to go find cover and heal yourself. If someone finds you half-way through the taunt, you're either dead before you have time to rev up the minigun or people are already S+M1-ing away from your fists.
With pyro, you go blind a few people with flames, taunt in plain sight, you go critical kill their ass.
The crit thing shouldn't be accessable that easily. You should have to go into cover or go hide somewhere to do it, not do it right in front of people, laughing as they attempt to hurt you.
The downsides are -10% damage, no random crits and no airblast. That's practically nothing but a direct upgrade for the regular W+M1er. The sandvich is incomparable because having it equipped stops heavy from having any mid-range weapon he can fire instantly, wheras the Pyro can still do that, and more.
Differences:
Phlog:
Pro: Massive damage reduction on taunt when you activate critical hits on command.
Pro: Direct upgrade to W+M1 pyros
Pro: Spam some fire and you can crit on command
Pro: Can activate crits in the middle of combat without much consequence
Pro: The taunt to activate it lasts [B]two seconds.[/B]
Con: No airblast.
Sandvich:
Pro: Can refill Heavy's full health if he eats it uninterrupted
Con: Removes any instant mid-range firepower he has. The Sandvich also causes you to give up [QUOTE=DrCactus;47034841]one of your most useful defensive tools.[/QUOTE]
Con: He's vulnerable while doing it
Con: The taunt to activate it lasts [B]a little over four seconds,[/B] over twice as long as the pyro's taunt. And the pyro has over half the health heavy as. Pretty damn unbalanced, there.
I can't help but dislike the phlog. Nothing's really changed my mind over it.
The taunt gives you chance to run away, any class thats slower than the pyro can destroy them during the taunt or just after.
And if you do it in the middle of combat you're fucked (discounting pubs full of potatoes), the idea is to do it behind a wall and ambush.
[QUOTE=Killbane;47035108]discounting pubs full of potatoes[/QUOTE]
Except that is what TF2 is balanced around
[QUOTE=Kalan Yamato;47034682]Is this satire? I seriously can't tell.[/QUOTE]
You guys have got to be kidding me. The Pyro is single-handedly the most dangerous class in the entire game in CQB with his insane flamethrower and axtinguisher. If you catch him around a corner, you're [I]done[/I]. There's literally nothing that can counter a Pyro who has the upper-hand. "Annoy spies with afterburn"? More like [B]disabling them permanently[/B] (or temporarily if you use DR). Annoying Soldiers/Demos with reflects? More like [B]completely denying potential damage to prevent a push[/B]. Worse than Scout at DM? I guess, [B]the Scout with plenty of space around him has always been a gigantic counter to the Pyro[/B]. Otherwise he's toast.
Otherwise, the Soldiers and Demomen can't touch the good Pyro at all.
The Pyro is not good at picking. Sure, that's true. But that's not a compelling argument at all against his use - what about the Engineer and the Medic? Oh, right, he can't "keep the team alive as well as them" of course he can't, he wasn't designed for that. The big irony in this is that he's able to [B]completely deny explosive damage of all kinds and instantly extinguishing team mate's fires[/B] (which saves a lot of ass and a lot of hassle), I'd go ahead and throw a bone at the thought that the Pyro is almost overpowered in this aspect.
The best part is that all of these things have [B]huge impact on the game[/B]. He can save his team mates in an instant (whether by denying damage or extinguishing fires) and attacking multiple enemies very, very easily. It's so easy to topscore as Pyro in pubs with dozens of frags, it's not even funny.
He's a situational class in 6v6. But he's pretty much essential in Highlander and pub play.
And baahaha, worse than Heavy at ambushing? Are you fucking for real? How in the hell can that fat-ass go through a flank quickly enough without getting overwhelmed the moment someone spots him? Plus, with the Minigun nerf he got, how is he NOT getting overwhelmed the MOMENT he starts shooting? Any sort of consistent focus fire on a Heavy will stop him dead in his tracks. On a Pyro and he'll reflect most of the damage.
(no one should be ambushing - nor doing ANYTHING - on their own in [B]TEAM[/B] [U][I hate to use this argument, but it's the undying truth - you cannot win games on your own at any class, ever][/U] Fortress 2 either way)
Also, the "sandvich is a medic replacement"? Comparing it to Phlog boost? That is a VERY loose definition. The sandvich can just BARELY keep the lardass alive in a tight spot. The Phlog boost makes the Pyro "invincible" for a few seconds.
[QUOTE=Kalan Yamato;47035535]The Phlog boost makes the Pyro "invincible" for a few seconds.[/QUOTE]
If you're spy, just quickly backstab him
[QUOTE=Inferno564;47035875]If you're spy, just quickly backstab him[/QUOTE]
You'd most likely be dead already or dead very soon if you're anywhere near a Pyro that can get full heal and critical hits at the click of a button.
[QUOTE=Kalan Yamato;47035535]You guys have got to be kidding me. The Pyro is single-handedly the most dangerous class in the entire game in CQB with his insane flamethrower and axtinguisher. If you catch him around a corner, you're [I]done[/I]. There's literally nothing that can counter a Pyro who has the upper-hand. "Annoy spies with afterburn"? More like [B]disabling them permanently[/B] (or temporarily if you use DR). Annoying Soldiers/Demos with reflects? More like [B]completely denying potential damage to prevent a push[/B]. Worse than Scout at DM? I guess, [B]the Scout with plenty of space around him has always been a gigantic counter to the Pyro[/B]. Otherwise he's toast.
Otherwise, the Soldiers and Demomen can't touch the good Pyro at all.
The Pyro is not good at picking. Sure, that's true. But that's not a compelling argument at all against his use - what about the Engineer and the Medic? Oh, right, he can't "keep the team alive as well as them" of course he can't, he wasn't designed for that. The big irony in this is that he's able to [B]completely deny explosive damage of all kinds and instantly extinguishing team mate's fires[/B] (which saves a lot of ass and a lot of hassle), I'd go ahead and throw a bone at the thought that the Pyro is almost overpowered in this aspect.
The best part is that all of these things have [B]huge impact on the game[/B]. He can save his team mates in an instant (whether by denying damage or extinguishing fires) and attacking multiple enemies very, very easily. It's so easy to topscore as Pyro in pubs with dozens of frags, it's not even funny.
He's a situational class in 6v6. But he's pretty much essential in Highlander and pub play.
And baahaha, worse than Heavy at ambushing? Are you fucking for real? How in the hell can that fat-ass go through a flank quickly enough without getting overwhelmed the moment someone spots him? Plus, with the Minigun nerf he got, how is he NOT getting overwhelmed the MOMENT he starts shooting? Any sort of consistent focus fire on a Heavy will stop him dead in his tracks. On a Pyro and he'll reflect most of the damage.
(no one should be ambushing - nor doing ANYTHING - on their own in [B]TEAM[/B] [U][I hate to use this argument, but it's the undying truth - you cannot win games on your own at any class, ever][/U] Fortress 2 either way)
Also, the "sandvich is a medic replacement"? Comparing it to Phlog boost? That is a VERY loose definition. The sandvich can just BARELY keep the lardass alive in a tight spot. The Phlog boost makes the Pyro "invincible" for a few seconds.[/QUOTE]
Out-soldiering any pyro is quite easy at point-blank.
For me how effectively I play pyro at least partially depends on the map and my team. On very open maps it can be difficult to even get near enough to anyone to do any real damage and if my team isn't putting on enough pressure it's easy to die very quickly to groups of enemies.
My favorite thing to do as pyro is block Uber push attempts.. warms my heart
I just wish airblast [I]added[/I] velocity, not set it.
[QUOTE=Kalan Yamato;47035535]You guys have got to be kidding me. The Pyro is single-handedly the most dangerous class in the entire game in CQB with his insane flamethrower and axtinguisher. If you catch him around a corner, you're [I]done[/I]. There's literally nothing that can counter a Pyro who has the upper-hand.
[/QUOTE]
That's silly, pyros don't have anywhere near enough damage at close range to be that much of a threat. Most classes can outdamage pyros at close range, or at least get out of close range easily.
[QUOTE]"Annoy spies with afterburn"? More like [B]disabling them permanently[/B] (or temporarily if you use DR).[/QUOTE]
People act like afterburn is an instakill to spies or something, and that afterburn is the 100% most effective way to take out spies in every circumstance, but it's really not. If the spy is positioning themselves correctly (which is kind of like, the whole point of spy), then it's really not hard to escape a pyro who has lit you. As long as there's not a wall directly behind you, and you're not literally within melee range, there's nothing stopping you from just booking it, firing revolver shots at the pyro as you go, and making use of their airblasts to get away. Any situation in which a pyro can take out a spy, a soldier can kill that spy just as easily.
[QUOTE]
Annoying Soldiers/Demos with reflects? More like [B]completely denying potential damage to prevent a push[/B].
Worse than Scout at DM? I guess, [B]the Scout with plenty of space around him has always been a gigantic counter to the Pyro[/B]. Otherwise he's toast.
[/QUOTE]
My point is not "Scout can take out a pyro in DM", my point is that pyro doesn't fill the niche of a DM class. It was just one of the ways in which pyro simply does not [I]fill[/I] a niche at all. That was the point of my whole post.
[QUOTE]
Otherwise, the Soldiers and Demomen can't touch the good Pyro at all.
The Pyro is not good at picking. Sure, that's true. But that's not a compelling argument at all against his use - what about the Engineer and the Medic? Oh, right, he can't "keep the team alive as well as them" of course he can't, he wasn't designed for that. The big irony in this is that he's able to [B]completely deny explosive damage of all kinds and instantly extinguishing team mate's fires[/B] (which saves a lot of ass and a lot of hassle), I'd go ahead and throw a bone at the thought that the Pyro is almost overpowered in this aspect.
[/QUOTE]
Extinguishing fire can be done by Scout, Heavy, Sniper, Medic, and, to an extent, Engi. It's not some amazing feat that makes a tremendous difference to gameplay, it's a minor convenience. Finding a health pack really isn't hard, they're all over the damn place. At absolute most it's negating 60 damage, and that's only if the enemy pyro dies immediately after lighting you and the teammate pyro is standing right there ready to blast you. It's really not huge.
On the subject of soldier and demo, fuck off with that "Soldiers and demos can't touch a good pyro" nonsense. Stickies can be detonated at any time, it doesn't matter how good the pyro is, by the time they're in reflect range they're already in detonation range. Soldiers can easily kill an airblasting pyro, timing your shots as soldier to make a pyro blast too early is infinitely easier than timing your airblasts to match the soldier's fire rate. And if they are good enough to reliably predict you, all you have to do is jump straight at them to close the distance and killing them is cake.
[QUOTE]
The best part is that all of these things have [B]huge impact on the game[/B]. He can save his team mates in an instant (whether by denying damage or extinguishing fires) and attacking multiple enemies very, very easily. It's so easy to topscore as Pyro in pubs with dozens of frags, it's not even funny.
He's a situational class in 6v6. But he's pretty much essential in Highlander and pub play.
[/QUOTE]
As stated before, saying pyro completely negates explosive damage is laughable. Demo is barely affected at all, and soldier can just aim the pyro's teammates rather than the pyro itself, or use a shotgun, or close the distance if there aren't higher damage classes around. And that's only under the assumption that the pyro is at higher skill level than the soldier and is better at timing. Otherwise killing the pyro is easy.
[QUOTE]And baahaha, worse than Heavy at ambushing? Are you fucking for real? How in the hell can that fat-ass go through a flank quickly enough without getting overwhelmed the moment someone spots him? Plus, with the Minigun nerf he got, how is he NOT getting overwhelmed the MOMENT he starts shooting? Any sort of consistent focus fire on a Heavy will stop him dead in his tracks. On a Pyro and he'll reflect most of the damage.
[/QUOTE]
Corner jumping as heavy is way more effective than anything a non-phlog pyro has for ambushing. If a Heavy pops around a corner into a room of several enemies who don't seem him, that room gets fucking cleared. With or without the damage nerf. If a pyro pops around a corner into a room of several enemies who don't see him, one person is probably going to die, [I]maybe[/I] two, and then the pyro dies. There's just not enough damage to ambush groups effectively as pyro. Certainly not as effectively as a Heavy or even a Soldier.
[QUOTE]
(no one should be ambushing - nor doing ANYTHING - on their own in [B]TEAM[/B] [U][I hate to use this argument, but it's the undying truth - you cannot win games on your own at any class, ever][/U] Fortress 2 either way)
[/QUOTE]
Well then what the hell's the point of the pyro in the first place? Ignoring the fact that roaming is an extremely viable tactic for many classes, which you're dismissing solely because of the name of the game, if the pyro is supposed to [I]never[/I] ambush, then [I]why is the first thing that you've suggested, and best way to get any damage out as pyro, to ambush people at close range?[/I]
[QUOTE=Juodvarnis;47034227]Well... Pyro is the greatest engineer babysitter around.[/QUOTE]
No, an engineer is the greatest engineer babysitter around. And you don't even have to devote your entire life to it, you can easily kill spies with a shotgun while primarily doing other things. And if your team really [I]really[/I] needs to have somebody camping the nest with the engi, the best option is just another engi. They can actually repair buildings, allowing you to repair your sentry at double the rate you could do alone, as well as have double the sentry power and double the dispenser healing and teleport rate.
In my opinion, there is no role the pyro fills that another class doesn't do better. Even if you disagree, and think that as a whole, all the little things like reflects, easy spy revealing, close range damage, and extinguishing add up to a greater sum that makes it a balanced class, don't you think that the way all of pyro's abilities are completely disjointed and unrelated make for a cluttered mess of a class? Like, none of the individual aspects of playing pyro come together to make anything cohesive. Personally, I find the class far more rewarding when using the phlog because of how it turns the class into one main thing. Ambushing. There are nuances to that like stealth and positioning, but you've got one main goal. With degreaser or stock Flame Thrower, though? It's a mess. Spam flames around the medics and sentries, blast all the projectiles you can, play weird mind-games with soldier, do convoluted combos with your secondaries and melees, there's no sense of a coherent strategy. He's a wanna-be generalist. Like, imagine if somebody tells you "go survive in the wilderness". But instead of getting a proper knife, you get a little pocket knife with a nail file, a spoon, a dinky little knife, a pair of scissors, a little hook, and a corkscrew. Yeah, I can make do with that I guess, if I'm creative about it, but if you're not [I]really[/I] going to give me all the tools I need, I'd just prefer to take one machete and not deal with all the fluff.
[QUOTE=datcrud;47025448]That made me cry[/QUOTE]
Kitty0706 was so young, it's very hard to believe his passing.
Team Fabulous and Moments with Heavy will still always be some of my favorite TF2 Gmod videos
Is it possible to get a full color objector anymore?
[QUOTE=Combat Wombat;47037520]Is it possible to get a full color objector anymore?[/QUOTE]
Maybe [URL="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=345499395"]This[/URL] can help, But the guide is in Spanish, I can do a translation if you need it.
[QUOTE=Combat Wombat;47037520]Is it possible to get a full color objector anymore?[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;ry16m-BbHDQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry16m-BbHDQ[/video]
[QUOTE=Combat Wombat;47037520]Is it possible to get a full color objector anymore?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=222268519[/url]
Thanks for the resources guys. I still can't figure this shit out though and everything seems fairly straightforward. I hope i'm not that oblivious.
This just happened yesterday on a Valve asteroid server. I was playing Scout since I never actually play it, when suddenly a *BIG* stutter lag just before (well, while) meatshotting a sniper. Nothing extraordinary, except that when I got out of this stupid lag, my scattergun literally went crazy and started firing itself at an incredible rate without consuming ammo, EXACTLY like in that old developer commentary glitch where you could reproduce it easily, but here, this was totally random.
[video=youtube;CfhaVPr7LaM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfhaVPr7LaM[/video]
And yes, I was doing damage, I killed a spy and another sniper afterwards. It ended quickly because a third sniper bodyshottted me and the glitch stopped. Man, Valve keeps breaking stuff.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]That's silly, pyros don't have anywhere near enough damage at close range to be that much of a threat. Most classes can outdamage pyros at close range, or at least get out of close range easily.[/QUOTE]
Are you out of your mind? You realize that the Pyro's [URL="https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/images%20to%20share%20n%20shit/2015/pero.PNG?_subject_uid=110890985&w=AABS4yKjJ1aARsNP8ehO5m8sK3o9b0tCGXJ3K5DUm37mNA"]flamethrower M1 at point-blank can kill a 125-Scout in 1 second and a 300-Heavy in 2 seconds[/URL], right? Tell me ANY CLASS that can dish out damage that fast without some sort of setup (like revving up or deploying stickies), a special condition (aiming for the head or back-hitting) or a penalty (explosive self-damage). Why do you think people are constantly saying "hur dur peero is nub class just press m1 and kil"?? Not only that, the Pyro is the third fastest class in the game, just BARELY slower than the Medic! How is ANYONE going to get away without a penalty?
Also, I've had this occur to me numerous times: a Heavy who is being buffed and healed but doesn't have his gun revved up can be taken down to 100 HP until he can kill the Pyro who's M1ing him. This is a MASSIVE amount of damage, and with the cooperation of a Demoman or a Soldier that Heavy is destroyed. [B]And this was before the Minigun nerf!![/B] :v:
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]People act like afterburn is an instakill to spies or something, and that afterburn is the 100% most effective way to take out spies in every circumstance, but it's really not.[/QUOTE]
It sure as hell becomes a huge beacon to the entire team, though. Give me a break, once a spy is spotted and lit he's done. He can't do shit. It's OVER unless he's extremely lucky - you can ask this to ANY Spy main.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]If the spy is positioning themselves correctly (which is kind of like, the whole point of spy), then it's really not hard to escape a pyro who has lit you. As long as there's not a wall directly behind you, and you're not literally within melee range, there's nothing stopping you from just booking it, firing revolver shots at the pyro as you go, and making use of their airblasts to get away. Any situation in which a pyro can take out a spy, a soldier can kill that spy just as easily.[/QUOTE]
Are... are you fucking kidding me? What sort of Pyros have you been playing against, dude? Why would you ever airblast a Spy who isn't posing a direct threat to anyone? Any decent Pyro can kill a compromised Spy with NO PENALTIES in less than a second, and if that fucker is using the Cicle and the Dead Ringer all he's doing is buying 2 or 3 more seconds while not doing any damage at all. Remember that the Pyro is the third fastest class in the game and he WILL OUTRUN any Spy.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]My point is not "Scout can take out a pyro in DM", my point is that pyro doesn't fill the niche of a DM class. [B]It was just one of the ways in which pyro simply does not [I]fill[/I] a niche at all.[/B] That was the point of my whole post.[/QUOTE]
Which is false. The Pyro is a point-blank God - runs almost as fast as the Medic and has a weapon capable of 150 DPS (or more if you reflect non-sticky projectiles HEUHEUHE)
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Extinguishing fire can be done by Scout, Heavy, Sniper, Medic, and, to an extent, Engi.[/QUOTE]
Scout, Heavy, Sniper can only extinguish fires every 30 seconds or whatever, not only that, the Scout has to give up the Pistol, the Heavy has to give up the Shotgun (eh who cares about that anyway :v:), and the Sniper has to give up mini-critting groups of people or his Razorback. Medic and Engi are naturals at keeping people alive, but even then, they can't instantly extinguish large groups of people in a second, and then do it again in the next second or two if they have to.
If you're using this argument, I suppose you can forget about using Medics since the Mad Milk can also heal, the MANY EDIBLES of the Heavy also heal, Concheror heals like crazy and the Batallion's Shit denies damage, Jarate denies damage and airblasting also denies damage so there's no healing to be done, woops? Why the hell are you constantly denying the utility of a TOOL if it's USEFUL? The other classes probably have more shit to do, let the Pyro also be useful in his own regard.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]It's not some amazing feat that makes a tremendous difference to gameplay, it's a minor convenience. Finding a health pack really isn't hard, they're all over the damn place.[/QUOTE]
Now you're just lying. Health packs are NOT all over the damn place in minimally competitive maps. The quantity of packs in each map is NOT satisfactory to constantly be able to keep teams of 12 (or even 9) alive, that's why you see so many morons at <100% HP in pubs, that's why Dispensers and Medics are necessary. Why the hell are you constantly denying the utility of a TOOL if it's USEFUL?
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]At absolute most it's negating 60 damage, and that's only if the enemy pyro dies immediately after lighting you and the teammate pyro is standing right there ready to blast you. It's really not huge.[/QUOTE]
60 damage is half a 125-Class's health, and those 60 aren't counting the Flare's/Flamethrower's base damage. A Scout who caught flames but still killed the Pyro and doesn't get immediate medical attention is at a very large risk of dying, depending on how long he fought for. If there are no Medics and/or no Packs around for some reason, a friendly Pyro can save the day and prevent the Scout from dying and waiting 10 seconds without doing anything at all. You have no idea how many times I've died in pubs because I was on fire and the only thing that could help me would be a Pyro... except either the only one closeby was a Phlog Pyro or there weren't any.
Why do you think Pyros in HL never use anything but Degreaser and in rare cases the Flamethrower? An Engineer, or a Sniper, or a Spy (also Demomen and panicky Soldiers) who get caught by a Pyro are dead. Automatically. There's no way they can win at close-range unless they have some sick aimbot and super nerves of steel that not even Premiership players have. Again, this is why people have huge hateboners over the Pyro being "OP". I'm not really sure what else to say here. Just go Pyro for 30 minutes and you'll see for yourself.
I need to reiterate that you obviously can't press W at every class and kill them guaranteedly - that is NOT what I'm saying. No class can do that.
I also mentioned "Pyros in HL" in spite of this being a "Pyros in pubs" discussion because if any of what you were saying were true, the Pyros in HL would be even more useless.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358][B]On the subject of soldier and demo, fuck off with that "Soldiers and demos can't touch a good pyro" nonsense.[/B][/QUOTE]
No, you fuck off with your baseless non-sense and obviously myopic view of what the Pyro really can do. Your arguments so far have been nothing but "Demoman is OP bcuz stickee spam or w/e!!11"-tier bullshit that, while based solely on bad/meaningless experiences and never considering ways to circumvent the problem aside from the extreme (nerf/buff/add/remove), inform and educate people in the completely wrong way, further postulating the problem; I've only been stating facts and experiences I've had against/with really good Pyros and as a pretty decent pub Pyro myself - because honestly, everything you've said so far goes against my experiences as, against, and cooperating with this class in pubs, Highlander and 6v6, over 2045 hours of gameplay with all types of players. The Pyro isn't OP, sure, but he isn't completely useless or completely, unconditionally replaceable (might aswell replace the Spy, Sniper, Engineer, since they're [B]also specialists[/B], with generalists like Soldier, Demoman, and Scout in every single scenario, they are the most powerful classes in the game after all) as you're trying to make him sound. But oh well, let's see what you have to say.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Stickies can be detonated at any time,[/QUOTE]
This is false. You need to wait more or less a second after firing it for it to be detonateable. Bringing Sticky traps into the equation is useless. Reflected stickies usually means that whatever damage the Demo wanted to do isn't going to happen, too.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]it doesn't matter how good the pyro is, by the time they're in reflect range they're already in detonation range.[/QUOTE]
A pro tip: you kill good demomen by being in their face. Give the Demo space and of course he's going to demolish you especially in choke areas, whatever class you're playing. If he switches to the Pipe Launcher, great! He's probably going to start firing it as soon as he can, so it's all about timing from the Pyro's part. Either way, it would be too late, 150 dmg/sec is a bit hard to avoid - you can interrupt M1 at any time with M2. Not the class's fault, this is all player skill.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Soldiers can easily kill an airblasting pyro,[/QUOTE]
"Easily", sure, if the Pyro's fucks it up right at the start and starts panicking. Any good Pyro also knows how the Soldier works and will get the reflect in at first try.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]timing your shots as soldier to make a pyro blast too early is infinitely easier than timing your airblasts to match the soldier's fire rate.[/QUOTE]
This is true. This is a strategy against airblasting Pyros. You can still get outplayed by the Pyro, though. Good Pyros will reflect your rocket the instant that they see it, and remember that around at 4~5 meters distance, the Pyro's airblast recharges faster than the rockets' velocity - what I mean is, beginning at a certain distance, the Pyro can ALWAYS reflect your rocket. At that point, you could switch to the Shotgun. At that point, he'll also switch to his secondary.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]And if they are good enough to reliably predict you, all you have to do is jump straight at them to close the distance and killing them is cake.[/QUOTE]
No. What's going to happen is that they'll reflect the rocket you shoot at them while in the air and:
1. Airshot you, or
2. You'll miss, and you're dead because the Pyro is CQB God personified and you're probably right next to him... or
3. He'll surf/dodge your rocket and laugh at you, or even,
4. Reflect your rocket, won't hit you, but you're still dead anyway because he's CQB God personified, since you're whispering at his ear saying how hot it is in the room. Except it probably isn't, you're just on fire.
IF YOU HAVE SHOTGUN
5. If you can get a meatshot in, good for you - good luck hitting the second one, though. Airblasting+fire+flares+anything the Pyro throws at you will completely fuck up your aim and he's STILL CQB God.
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXKuZAZ3PD4"]Good Pyros are DM MONSTERS[/URL], they can kill anyone almost instantly and the last thing you want to do is fighting them head-on at any distance as Soldier.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]As stated before, saying pyro completely negates explosive damage is laughable.[/QUOTE]
This entire discussion is laughable. It's like the world was flipped upside down and suddenly people like you want to think Pyro is UP. Seriously.
Also, tell me one source of explosive damage that the Pyro can't exploit for his own gain. He's actually the best class for this, too. (other classes can only surf the explosions...)
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Demo is barely affected at all,[/QUOTE]
WOW OK
So suddenly getting your pipes NOT DO ANY DAMAGE TO THE ENEMY (but do MASSIVE AMOUNTS of damage to your allies, mind you!!) and your stickies blown out of your target's range is, potentially going into your own face is... "BARELY BEING AFFECTED"? Are you even trying?! The Demoman is the ONE PERSON with the highest damage potential in the game with projectiles, he's the crazy motherfucker who goes in and blows everything up! And taking that away from him is... "BARELY AFFECTING HIM"?
What sort of Pyros have you been playing against, again???
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]and soldier can just aim the pyro's teammates rather than the pyro itself,[/QUOTE]
Good, it'll make W+M1ing him to death that much easier, lmao.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]or use a shotgun,[/QUOTE]
But why? The Pyro is still faster than the Soldier, and the Pyro can also use a Shotgun, or better yet, he can use the Flare Gun to crit the Soldier to death. The only reason why the good Scout can completely destroy even the best Pyro is because he is a lot manueverable than him.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]or close the distance if there aren't higher damage classes around.[/QUOTE]
Closing distance against the CQB God who will kill you in 2 seconds while STILL receiving a penalty for each rocket you MIGHT hit. Okay.
What do you mean "if there aren't higher dmg classes around"? You mean a Heavy to back the Pyro up? ...who cares?
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]And that's only under the assumption that the pyro is at higher skill level than the soldier and is better at timing. Otherwise killing the pyro is easy.[/QUOTE]
[B]Why the hell are you even trying to discuss this then, if you're basing your arguments on BAD PYROS?[/B]
Higher skill level than the Soldier? How are you even measuring this skill difference? Good Pyros will always be able to fight against Soldiers, whatever the level of skill of the Soldier. X Class vs Y Class matchups shouldn't be measured by the same method as X Class vs X Class matchups - [B]which is exactly what you appear to be doing.[/B]
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Corner jumping as heavy is way more effective than anything a non-phlog pyro has for ambushing.[/QUOTE]
This is circumstancial. You can use this same argument against Demoman/Soldier ambushes for whatever reason. Each class is good to ambush in specific situations, so don't bring that up.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]If a Heavy pops around a corner into a room of several enemies who don't seem him, that room gets fucking cleared. With or without the damage nerf. If a pyro pops around a corner into a room of several enemies who don't see him, one person is probably going to die, [I]maybe[/I] two, and then the pyro dies.[/QUOTE]
Once again, this is circumstancial. You can use this same argument against Demoman/Soldier ambushes for whatever reason. In many rooms the Heavy can't clear as well as he should according to you. Each class is good to ambush in specific situations, so don't bring that up.
Also, it's A LOT EASIER to focus fire one big tub of fuck who can't move for shit who happens to have a big gun than a fast-moving fireball of death. A fast-moving ally can create lots of room for the rest of the team to maneuever, too.
also the heavy is slow as fuck did I mention that before?
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]There's just not enough damage to ambush groups effectively as pyro.[/QUOTE]
Yes aside from it being able to kill a 300-Class in 2 seconds and STILL setting tons of others on fire, which also has a psychological effect on the enemy and is hard to fix without a Pyro.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Certainly not as effectively as a Heavy or even a Soldier.[/QUOTE]
I wont copypaste it again
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Well then what the hell's the point of the pyro in the first place?[/QUOTE]
"What is the point of playing x class if any class shouldn't go ahead and do crazy plays on their own that probably won't work?"
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]Ignoring the fact that roaming is an extremely viable tactic for many classes,[/QUOTE]
Define roaming. Even Roaming Soldiers in 6v6 shouldn't do stuff on their own without the immediate backup of their Scouts (which in turn means they're not on their own!!!), unless it's a suicide play SOLELY to get a very important super vital game-saving pick or forcing/dropping the enemy medic. I don't know why this should be different in pubs-- oh wait, right, players in pubs don't give two shits about preservation and will do whatever and keep flanks and/or huge holes completely open 24/7, my mistake.
"Roaming" by your probable definition is exploiting the enemy's complete distraction to do crazy shit on your own, but by pub standards you can do anything on the flank as any class in those situations and it'll probably work.
This is contradictory considering my entire post, but seriously, pubs aren't a good way to measure class balance.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358]which you're dismissing solely because of the name of the game,[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][I hate to use this argument, but it's the undying truth - you cannot win games on your own at any class, ever][/QUOTE]
And this, too.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;47036358][B]if the pyro is supposed to [I]never[/I] ambush[/B], then [I]why is the first thing that you've suggested, and best way to get any damage out as pyro, to ambush people at close range?[/I][/QUOTE]
Lolwut don't put words in my mouth. Of course he should ambush, but he shouldn't do it on his own, just like every other class ever.
chill
Anyone know this hud please ?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/goYCl6c.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=NassimO PotatO;47040693]Anyone know this hud please ?
[t]http://i.imgur.com/goYCl6c.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Old version of TF2+ HUD, I believe he has the old downloads available [url]https://steamcommunity.com/groups/tf2hudplus[/url]
Anyone know an sv_pure 0 server with standard maps that tolerates decent micspam?
[QUOTE=Kalan Yamato;47040513]Big Pyro Arguement[/QUOTE]
dude, its a game. You don't have to go crazy because a guy says something, if anything shows reliability its the gameplay, not some guy's opinion.
The fact that people play pyro regularly shows that the class has some merit, even if it isn't as glaringly obvious as some of the other classes.
[QUOTE=Hey I'm Grump;47041840]dude, its a game. You don't have to go crazy because a guy says something, if anything shows reliability its the gameplay, not some guy's opinion.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I overreacted. You're absolutely right.
I apologize especially to Mort Stroodle, sorry that I jumped you like that. I like to argue about games in a healthy way but I got a bit too aggressive and idiotic at a certain point. Guess I had a bad week, heh.
[QUOTE=Kalan Yamato;47043845]I'm sorry, I overreacted. You're absolutely right.
I apologize especially to Mort Stroodle, sorry that I jumped you like that. I like to argue about games in a healthy way but I got a bit too aggressive and idiotic at a certain point. Guess I had a bad week, heh.[/QUOTE]
The internet needs more people like you; people that are actually capable of apologizing.
Mann up servers have been switching to boot camp a lot recently w/ loadouts not being able to switch in the server for the past 3 days. Its starting to get really agitating since I've had to redo 5+ missions already :(
[video=youtube;SMKWNbSXO9s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMKWNbSXO9s&feature=youtu.be[/video]
ignore background noise OBS recorded youtube sound
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