VALVE CUT CONTENT V2+1: Digging through Valve's trash since 2003! - Games

[QUOTE=JasonDave;52236266]At the rate it's going, a couple of years from now this thread will be in unanimous agreement that Valve really fucked up by releasing a sequel to Half-Life and thus the game was ruined forever.[/QUOTE] Half-Life 2 is my all-time favourite game and always will be. :(

[QUOTE=Snood_1990;52236295]Half-Life 2 is my all-time favourite game and always will be. :([/QUOTE] Ricochet is my favorite Half Life game

[QUOTE=Gentleman Cat;52236448]Ricochet is my favorite Half Life game[/QUOTE] welcome to ricochet 2 hopefully it would have been worth the wait... edit: gmadador will die

Prospero's actually my favorite Valve game that I never played. Totally beats out TF2: Invasion and Stars of Blood. e: Oh yeah and Ricochet too I guess

[QUOTE=SFArial;52234922]Agreed, hell I haven't heard anyone complain that none of the real life inspired weapons actually make an attempt to look like their real life counterparts, or how some of their functionality has no basis even in its own reality (SMG grenade, shotgun double shot).[/QUOTE] I don't know where you've been, then. People have been ragging on Valve for the invisible grenade launcher and "fire both barrels" prompt for a long long time.

[QUOTE=JasonDave;52237577]Prospero's actually my favorite Valve game that I never played[/QUOTE] [IMG]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/253596764974743554/314187698673811460/Prosperonotgame.JPG[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Gamer#1;52238007][IMG]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/253596764974743554/314187698673811460/Prosperonotgame.JPG[/IMG][/QUOTE] At least it proves video games can be art, kinda like Ricochet actually.

[QUOTE=PikaCommando;52238109]At least it proves video games can be art, kinda like Ricochet actually.[/QUOTE] Meaning other games didn't prove it already? Bioshock certainly helped establish that games are art, 10 years go. And of recent examples, its modern informal sequel, Prey, further cements this idea. However, Valve games are rather gameplay-aimed than art-based. And Prospero was never done so who knows if that art/game would be a good game. Or good art.

[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;52238324]Meaning other games didn't prove it already? Bioshock certainly helped establish that games are art, 10 years go. And of recent examples, its modern informal sequel, Prey, further cements this idea. However, Valve games are rather gameplay-aimed than art-based. And Prospero was never done so who knows if that art/game would be a good game. Or good art.[/QUOTE] It was mainly concepts. Most of which, could not be pulled off due to the limitations of the engine at the time. It's why the game was cancelled, just like the submarine game. It pretty much was exactly that: Art.

[IMG]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302232072284798977/314232006466863106/2017-05-16_21_44_21Blender__C__Users_Owner_Google_Drive_HyperBum_Gmadador_flaregun.blend.png[/IMG] I've been working on a recreation of the REALLY early flaregun. The one seen here: [IMG]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/302232072284798977/314232031485624320/rightarm.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;52238324]Valve games are rather gameplay-aimed than art-based[/QUOTE] Its interesting were talking about this, since the early HL2 concepts seem to imply more of a art-game than a... game-game. Things like the C17 exploration sequence, or the Manhack Arcade would rely more on showcase than on gameplay.

American muscle cars were very exotic, but some people had them even in the USSR. So it's not very far-fetched that a rebel group decided on it instead of thousands of slavshit cars. About the EP2 location and their American trains, incompatible with soviet rails - I think they just didn't want to spend money on a trip to europe to research. Seems very lazy, considering they had tons of money, but it was probably decided that nobody will actually care. [editline]17th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=95Navigator;52239752]Its interesting were talking about this, since the early HL2 concepts seem to imply more of a art-game than a... game-game. Things like the C17 exploration sequence, or the Manhack Arcade would rely more on showcase than on gameplay.[/QUOTE] When Valve were realizing that they were running out of time, exposition maps were probably cut in the first place. Even though it's not C17, or even my favorite version of Aperture Science center, I'm glad that they showed us a lot of backstage stuff of Portal 2 Aperture Science.

[QUOTE=notbarnik;52239786]American muscle cars were very exotic, but some people had them even in the USSR. So it's not very far-fetched that a rebel group decided on it instead of thousands of slavshit cars.[/QUOTE] Damn it. It's not about how common the car is. The point is, the buggy is also not a common choice of a vehicle for the post-Soviet area, but it had the looks that fit the original game, it was pieced together with scrap and some future technology by innovative group of survivors in close dystopian future. The original Jalopy would follow that recipy and show us a car, based also on a non-Easter European car, repaired with scrap and whatnot, it would look unique and fitting, because originally, you had the Combine with slick asymmetric metal design and you had the Resistance with pieced-together junk-y tech design, a very recognisable contrast, but now you get this cooler and less damaged car and it's like you're playing a mod that adds cool stuff just because it's cool. In other words, the original Jalopy was more intentional and thought-through, the new Jalopy is a quick addition with no thought carried with it. They're saying it was done because the players would be disappointed with a more trashed car, but you have to stick with your design and principles, man! If someone is 'disappointed' with an intentional design they can fuck off and play GTA. To address the point about exotic car vs slavshit car. If it was a pimped GAS-24 "Volga" (the bigger white ones in HL2), I'd be just as pissed. Because it's not about being cool, it's about fitting the unique style and the Charger does not do it. Btw, Magnusson teleports are also kinda too cool looking, like they're produced on a factory, what happened with trashy old teleports built with replacement parts? edit If they'd stripped the Charger down to its frame and then rebulit it with scrap and such, moving it closer to the Buggy and Jalopy, but leaving the recognisable foundation, then yes that'd fit HL2 style. It would stull be very questionable how they got their hands on a Charger but since it'd be redone with fitting aesthetics, it'd only be even better because now you'd have the element of mystery of where the car is from, and that's good. But no, we won't have it because it's too good of an idea for Valve.

[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;52239974]They're saying it was done because the players would be disappointed with a more trashed car, but you have to stick with your design and principles, man![/QUOTE] To be honest, if EP2 was to use the old jalopy, I'd personally write it off as valve being lazy and re-cycling already used ideas instead of evolving them. From a game design standpoint current jalopy works out very well. It has a distinct silhouette and color, making it easy to parse in high-visual-noise areas aka forest. Trying to notice rusty buggy-style jalopy against dirt and leaves and dark road texture would've been considerably harder. Think about it: in HL2 original buggy visually works on sand, due to sand being bright thus making buggy stand out. Plus as it has been previously noted, it's kind of hard to envision lightweight buggy as something that can ram and mow hunters down, breaking their legs like dry sticks. Charger, on other hand... Besides, you're searching for realism in game that is heavily unrealistic. Take headcrabs for example: there's no way in hell that they'd be able to take control of nervous system as complicated as human's, plus them being completely alien species doesn't help their chances. Realistic course of action would be them getting incapacipated by high gravity (Xen is arguably low-gravity), getting suffocated or poisoned, or if they're unlucky with their chemistry, set on fire by our atmosphere. Assuming they somehow survived all that, all sorts of microorganisms are aching to investigate that gaping hole with apparent access to bodily fluids on their belly. Local fauna would join in next. After that the exposure would have it's way with them. And yet, here they are, sitting in radioactive dirt that would realistically fry any and all delicate structures inside their bodies. Why? Because realistic approach would not make for interesting HL game, that's why.

[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;52239974]Damn it. It's not about how common the car is. The point is, the buggy is also not a common choice of a vehicle for the post-Soviet area, but it had the looks that fit the original game, it was pieced together with scrap and some future technology by innovative group of survivors in close dystopian future. The original Jalopy would follow that recipy and show us a car, based also on a non-Easter European car, repaired with scrap and whatnot, it would look unique and fitting, because originally, you had the Combine with slick asymmetric metal design and you had the Resistance with pieced-together junk-y tech design, a very recognisable contrast, but now you get this cooler and less damaged car and it's like you're playing a mod that adds cool stuff just because it's cool. In other words, the original Jalopy was more intentional and thought-through, the new Jalopy is a quick addition with no thought carried with it. They're saying it was done because the players would be disappointed with a more trashed car, but you have to stick with your design and principles, man! If someone is 'disappointed' with an intentional design they can fuck off and play GTA. To address the point about exotic car vs slavshit car. If it was a pimped GAS-24 "Volga" (the bigger white ones in HL2), I'd be just as pissed. Because it's not about being cool, it's about fitting the unique style and the Charger does not do it. Btw, Magnusson teleports are also kinda too cool looking, like they're produced on a factory, what happened with trashy old teleports built with replacement parts? edit If they'd stripped the Charger down to its frame and then rebulit it with scrap and such, moving it closer to the Buggy and Jalopy, but leaving the recognisable foundation, then yes that'd fit HL2 style. It would stull be very questionable how they got their hands on a Charger but since it'd be redone with fitting aesthetics, it'd only be even better because now you'd have the element of mystery of where the car is from, and that's good. But no, we won't have it because it's too good of an idea for Valve.[/QUOTE] Resistance tech doesn't have to look like something out of [url=https://my.mixtape.moe/rzzugu.png]Scraphead Challenge,[/url] where people designed and created machines that looked like beta jalopy in a very limited amount of time, out of stuff found on a scrapyard. With a good amount of time and tools, both of which can easily be found outside of C17 before Gordon stirred up the nest, a Charger like that is very reasonable, like this [url=https://my.mixtape.moe/jncldx.png]Ukrainian homemade war buggy.[/url] No official factories or support from government used. Besides, Valve have explained why they re-designed it. Basically: 1. You already had a shit scrap car in HL2. Why do the same thing? Not very creative. 2. A cool rebel car like that is a much better reward for what you have to go through. Empowering the player from time to time is very good design. HL2 buggy was empowering because it had a Gauss rifle. EP2 car was empowering because it looked cool and made cool noises. Your point has no basis neither in the lore or game design. I respect your opinion, and I'm not saying that you should just enjoy it like it is, but you shared your view, and I shared mine.

it's upsetting that there's so many interesting half-life 2 cut concepts that will never be in a playable state

A bit unrelated, but based on how they're modeled, what kind of transmission (manual or auto) do you guys think the cars (Buggy, Jalopy, and Charger) use? My guess is they're all automatic because if Gordon didn't pass driving school and the cars are in manual, humanity would be fucked.

[QUOTE=notbarnik;52240423]Resistance tech doesn't have to look like something out of [url=https://my.mixtape.moe/rzzugu.png]Scraphead Challenge,[/url] where people designed and created machines that looked like beta jalopy in a very limited amount of time, out of stuff found on a scrapyard. With a good amount of time and tools, both of which can easily be found outside of C17 before Gordon stirred up the nest, a Charger like that is very reasonable, like this [url=https://my.mixtape.moe/jncldx.png]Ukrainian homemade war buggy.[/url] No official factories or support from government used. Besides, Valve have explained why they re-designed it. Basically: 1. You already had a shit scrap car in HL2. Why do the same thing? Not very creative. 2. A cool rebel car like that is a much better reward for what you have to go through. Empowering the player from time to time is very good design. HL2 buggy was empowering because it had a Gauss rifle. EP2 car was empowering because it looked cool and made cool noises. Your point has no basis neither in the lore or game design. I respect your opinion, and I'm not saying that you should just enjoy it like it is, but you shared your view, and I shared mine.[/QUOTE] Not to mention that Antonov had left at this point, so why keep aping his vision? And as far as themes go, if the muscle car does not clash with the internal rules of the Half-Life universe, I don't have a problem with it. Even if it doesn't fit with the aesthetic themes of Half-Life 2,the contrast of technological might and whatnot, the story in EP2 is at a point where the tables have turned. Even if just a bit. The muscle car is a fine manifestation of that.

[QUOTE=PikaCommando;52240514]A bit unrelated, but based on how they're modeled, what kind of transmission (manual or auto) do you guys think the cars (Buggy, Jalopy, and Charger) use? My guess is they're all automatic because if Gordon didn't pass driving school and the cars are in manual, humanity would be fucked.[/QUOTE] They all have standard gearsticks and clutch pedals so I'm assuming one of Gordon's many talents includes being able to drive a manual. Maybe he learned in Innsbruck. Actually now I'm hoping this glaring issue is addressed by Ross Scott in Freeman's Mind 2 when he gets to the part with the car, sometime in 2025.

[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;52239974]Btw, Magnusson teleports are also kinda too cool looking, like they're produced on a factory, what happened with trashy old teleports built with replacement parts?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Mech Bgum;52240303]Yeah, I can agree with you on Magnusson teleports and bombs looking too nice, definitely wouldn't hurt for them to look more homemade with prominent welding seams, mismatching screws and bolts of all sizes, rough hasty paintjobs and whatnot.[/QUOTE] White Forest was the European counterpart to Black Mesa, so it's likely that White Forest had the machinery available to fabricate the design professionally.

How much deeper do we have to itch in to the lore until we've hit the bedrock topic if whether or not Gordon is actually blind because of his eye color?

[QUOTE=Mech Bgum;52240303]Yeah, I can agree with you on Magnusson teleports and bombs looking too nice, definitely wouldn't hurt for them to look more homemade with prominent welding seams, mismatching screws and bolts of all sizes, rough hasty paintjobs and whatnot.[/QUOTE] Both teleports and bombs look like nice, mass-produced, quality contrlolled things. But there's a bigger issue tied to those. Why did they have to wait for Gordon to arrive and then use his gravity gun, if they had D0G who has a gravity gun built into his right arm? Why not use D0G on the battlefield? See, all of this starts to fall apart. [QUOTE=notbarnik;52240423] Besides, Valve have explained why they re-designed it. Basically: 1. You already had a shit scrap car in HL2. Why do the same thing? Not very creative. 2. A cool rebel car like that is a much better reward for what you have to go through. Empowering the player from time to time is very good design. HL2 buggy was empowering because it had a Gauss rifle. EP2 car was empowering because it looked cool and made cool noises.[/QUOTE] You use the shit car because it's the shit world within the game. Shit situation, desperate. You do the same thing because that's called following your own styleguides. No, they don't have to be set in stone, but that time they simply spit on the original game. Vortigaunts now look worse (generic slick aliens), the environemnts look worse (as in, very generic and not characteristic of Half-Life 2), the car looks worse. It is LESS creative to take the already existing car and just put it in. This car is simply not interesting because nothing interesting was done to it. If the'dy strip it to the frame and then rebuilt it in a unique way, that'd be interesting. This time they were empowering the less mature audience. If something that 'looks cool and makes cool noises' automatically equals 'good' to you, that's a bad sign, got bad news for you. I stated it previously and I'm going to repeat it. Ep2 is basically Valve-produced Cinematic mod. Trees everywhere, modern non-fitting stuff like the car, phong slapped onto things, done, the original style ruined. It falls apart and thus it is only a good thing they're not making a new part.

[QUOTE=Cvoxalury;52242787]car[/QUOTE] Who even cares? It's just a car, and there's only one in the game anyway. It's not like they're appearing everywhere. Its appearance is far from impossible, and such things still being around probably makes more sense than everything being made of trash. If that's too implausible, what about all the other things in the game? Such things are beside the point in the end, really. Ep2 is fine enough by itself, at least. It's different, it may be worse, but that's how sequels often go and it can't be helped. If nothing else, it's still far better than the terrible console games that have been coming out since. Calling it a ‘Valve Cinematic mod’ makes no sense at all.

Basically how I rationalized it: Some Novye Russkie shitbag decided the best way to show off his wealth and class was to import a vintage car from a foreign country, and when the Black Mesa Incident went down, this car was abandoned in his garage when the owner was killed or fled by other means. So Rebel Joe and Rebel John find this old car and decide "woah what a catch, if we're gonna fix [I]any[/I] car, it's gonna be [I]this one[/I]" and so they do. Boom, Dodge Charger in post-apocalyptic Eastern Europe.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52243275]Basically how I rationalized it: Some Novye Russkie shitbag decided the best way to show off his class was to import a vintage car from another country, and when the Black Mesa Incident went down, this car was abandoned in an old garage when the owner was killed or fled by other means (possibly forcibly evacuated). So Rebel Joe and Rebel John find this old car and decide "woah what a catch, if we're gonna fix [I]any[/I] car, it's gonna be [I]this one[/I]" and so they do. Boom, Dodge Charger in post-apocalyptic Eastern Europe.[/QUOTE] Straight to Hawaii

How a freaking car model could trigger some people? Really, what's the deal with it? Is a just a car, a model that is not impossible to find on Europe, just chill out dude. If you want something European and common then make a Lada or a BMW

[QUOTE=PaChIrA;52243277]Straight to Hawaii[/QUOTE] That sounds really familiar like I've heard it before, but I can't pin point it

[QUOTE=Exploders;52244310]That sounds really familiar like I've heard it before, but I can't pin point it[/QUOTE] Probably Freeman's Mind 2.

[QUOTE=PwnGModer;52245105]Probably Freeman's Mind 2.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=cit_welderplususe_01] Hey, don't worry about us. See this car? We're fixing it up and getting the hell outta here. Driving to Hawaii! Beaches, babes and waves. Tell you what, if you ever get sick of this rebel crap, you know who to talk to.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure how I feel about an actual quote from Episode Two being goofy enough to be mistaken for something from Freeman's Mind

[QUOTE=artDecor;52245243]I'm not sure how I feel about an actual quote from Episode Two being mistaken for something from Freeman's Mind[/QUOTE] I think I've played EP2 only once, so I don't remember quotes from there.