Major Update Speculation V35 - A Distinctive Lack of Communication - Games

The issue here is, there is absolutely no reason for valve to do this. Valve is well off on their steam bucks. They do not need TF2 as a revenue, so it is not even worth the resources when they could dump time and money into Steam/Dota 2 and get a much higher payoff. From a business perspective, ignoring tf2 is 100% logical, as much as that sucks for us. Thats what I see happening.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51589886]The issue here is, there is absolutely no reason for valve to do this. Valve is well off on their steam bucks. They do not need TF2 as a revenue, so it is not even worth the resources when they could dump time and money into Steam/Dota 2 and get a much higher payoff. From a business perspective, ignoring tf2 is 100% logical, as much as that sucks for us. Thats what I see happening.[/QUOTE] Ignoring tf2 is not logical, but giving TF2 the level of support that people seem to think it deserves is illogical.

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;51589879]Either hire more people or start assigning qualified individuals within the company to a dedicated task. Clearly the current arrangement isn't working, and outside of TF2, Valve still doesn't have a support department.[/QUOTE] cmon dude re-read my second sentence [QUOTE=Oizen;51589886]The issue here is, there is absolutely no reason for valve to do this. Valve is well off on their steam bucks. They do not need TF2 as a revenue, so it is not even worth the resources when they could dump time and money into Steam/Dota 2 and get a much higher payoff. From a business perspective, ignoring tf2 is 100% logical, as much as that sucks for us. Thats what I see happening.[/QUOTE] That's basically it, tf2 is a bomb when it comes to managing it and it is completely self sufficient without updates due to the nature of the game and the playerbase. If you touch it in any way, let alone the wrong ways it'll flatout not work and potentially screw with other systems can ppl quit with the 'they do this to dota and cs' like they really are completely separate and for the most part entirely irrelevant teams to both eachother and to tf2 its just a really dumb argument that provides nothing in a discussion also 'they dont need tf2 as a revenue' yeah i don't need 10,000$ but I'd love to have it? your argument is in defense of an operation of a company yet you dismantle it by saying very dumb things like any and every company would love any and all reasons to make money and would preserve it as best as they can, so long as it's not at a loss, in which tf2 will never operate at a loss since the game has been free for a good 5 years now.

[QUOTE=geel9;51589921]Ignoring tf2 is not logical, but giving TF2 the level of support that people seem to think it deserves is illogical.[/QUOTE] I don't see how In terms what brings in the mad bucks, its probably Steam > Dota 2 > CS:GO > TF2 Tf2 isn't even the bronze medal. I mean they could make more money if they also put effort into tf2. But they really aren't even inclined to do so seeing as player numbers from TF2 to CS:GO are multiplied by 10. Meaning putting time into CS:GO will yield much higher results, and thats not even their main cash cow.

[QUOTE=MrBump;51586951]Comic update. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/FWkZF7c.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Pardon my uncharacteristic optimism, but does it seem to anyone else that the "[I] think" part suggests that the comic's finished and the release date is out of his hands? [QUOTE=ics;51589871]Also, people who apply for a position, aren't just doing that job alone, but everything else required. [B]It's the same in any company.[/B][/QUOTE] This is categorically untrue.

Its true for valve. I dont believe they have any sort of structure or team. Everyone just sort of works on whatever.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51590064]Its true for valve.[/QUOTE] Which is not what was said. EDIT: Damn, dreadful pageking. My apologies.

[QUOTE=Oizen;51589982]I don't see how In terms what brings in the mad bucks, its probably Steam > Dota 2 > CS:GO > TF2 Tf2 isn't even the bronze medal. I mean they could make more money if they also put effort into tf2. But they really aren't even inclined to do so seeing as player numbers from TF2 to CS:GO are multiplied by 10. Meaning putting time into CS:GO will yield much higher results, and thats not even their main cash cow.[/QUOTE] Yes, but completely dropping TF2 would be foolish.

[QUOTE=Power Glove;51589930]cmon dude re-read my second sentence [/QUOTE] I read and fully comprehended your sentence. What you fail to comprehend is that the "TF Team" is a misnomer; it isn't a team, but rather a clique that is just as itinerant within the company as any other set of employees. Hence, "assigning [employees] to a dedicated task."

[QUOTE=geel9;51590170]Yes, but completely dropping TF2 would be foolish.[/QUOTE] I agree with that statement. So how about instead they just throw it minuscule breadcrumbs twice a year?

[QUOTE=Lord Exor;51590248]I read and fully comprehended your sentence. What you fail to comprehend is that the "TF Team" is a misnomer; it isn't a team, but rather a clique that is just as itinerant within the company as any other set of employees. Hence, "assigning [employees] to a dedicated task."[/QUOTE] Having actually visited Valve I don't think you're really getting it right.

[QUOTE=geel9;51590704]Having actually visited Valve I don't think you're really getting it right.[/QUOTE] If it takes a visit to Valve to see that a TF Team exists and that they care about the game, then they are likely doing something wrong. If Q1 isn't going to blow our socks off, then I'd actually worry for the future of the game - my entire faith lies in the Pyro Update and it's campaign/Comp changes...

[QUOTE=Power Glove;51589823] it's like why would I hire 10 people to change a lightbulb when 1 can do it [/QUOTE] Well, when the one person who's job it is to change the light bulb continuously drops, breaks, then decides the lightbulb didn't work to begin with so they change to a new lightbulb that never worked that well to begin with. Maybe it's time to hire a new light bulb guy, or twelve. Your analogy sucks btw

[QUOTE=Man in the Moon;51590858]Well, when the one person who's job it is to change the light bulb continuously drops, breaks, then decides the lightbulb didn't work to begin with so they change to a new lightbulb that never worked that well to begin with. Maybe it's time to hire a new light bulb guy, or twelve. Your analogy sucks btw[/QUOTE] And then you realize you haven't owned a lamp in 9 years.

[QUOTE=Fluury;51590824]If it takes a visit to Valve to see that a TF Team exists and that they care about the game, then they are likely doing something wrong.[/QUOTE] This, a thousand times this. One can sort-of deduce that the TF Team cares about the game, or at least wants to see it grow, judging by the radical changes in MyM meant to modernize TF2, but their radio silence and update infrequency makes it difficult to feel like they genuinely care about the community or what it thinks. [quote]If Q1 isn't going to blow our socks off, then I'd actually worry for the future of the game - my entire faith lies in the Pyro Update and it's campaign/Comp changes...[/QUOTE] Now that you mention it, I think I know what they're doing to do with contracts for the Pyro Update. All the contracts will be Pyro-related in some way. Like, some will require you to play Pyro and others will require you to cooperate with/kill Pyros in certain ways. I mean, we've already done weapon contracts, map contracts and class contracts. Don't know what else they could add.

[QUOTE=geel9;51590704]Having actually visited Valve I don't think you're really getting it right.[/QUOTE] Aren't you lucky. So you're telling me this team dedicates their entire work year on TF2 and nothing but? [QUOTE=geel9;51589921]Ignoring tf2 is not logical, but giving TF2 the level of support that people seem to think it deserves is illogical.[/QUOTE] What kind of drivel are you spouting here? There are games/IPs with better developer support that don't even make half of what TF2 makes in a year (the Killing Floor franchise being a good example). How are you justifying this statement?

[QUOTE=Fluury;51590824]If it takes a visit to Valve to see that a TF Team exists and that they care about the game, then they are likely doing something wrong. If Q1 isn't going to blow our socks off, then I'd actually worry for the future of the game - my entire faith lies in the Pyro Update and it's campaign/Comp changes...[/QUOTE] I guess the fact we know they're working on Pyro and Heavy reworks, along with the 50ish patches a year just aren't enough to know the TF2 team exists and cares.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;51591033]I guess the fact we know they're working on Pyro and Heavy reworks, along with the 50ish patches a year just aren't enough to know the TF2 team exists and cares.[/QUOTE] They skipped halloween and its taken them 8+ months to create 3 weapons. There is something wrong here. Especially when you realize that a good chunk of their bugs have been fixed by other people, like sigsegv for example.

[QUOTE=ComodoreBluth;51591033]I guess the fact we know they're working on Pyro and Heavy reworks, along with the 50ish patches a year just aren't enough to know the TF2 team exists and cares.[/QUOTE] I mean, unless we are incredibly ignorant, all of us that check the thread are aware the Team exists and obviously gives a shit about this game - know who doesnt? The vast Majority of People. Most people circling around tf2 come back when a Major Update hits. So, People are reminded that the game exists twice a year by the usual uproar a Major Update gives the game - then the big "judging" phase comes in to check if the Major Update brings enough to bother going back. MyM had no content but rather changed the game worked, Winter Update is not existant atm. So all we can do right now is wait, and hope the Pyro Update comes in January.

[QUOTE=riki2cool;51588627] from [URL="http://makanidotdot.tumblr.com/post/149762367641/i-really-didnt-want-to-bother-you-with-this"]makani's tumblr[/URL] (3 months old but still relevant) [QUOTE]releasing [the comic] sooner would have required not contributing to any other projects for [b]TF or Dota or VR[/b][/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] It's not like they're even contributing anything for TF and Dota anyway, and do they seriously need all that manpower for a bunch of overglorified tech demos for what's essentially nothing but a gimmick and fad? At this point, EA buying out Valve seems to be much better than whatever we're getting now.

[QUOTE=Fluury;51590824]If Q1 isn't going to blow our socks off, then I'd actually worry for the future of the game - my entire faith lies in the Pyro Update and it's campaign/Comp changes...[/QUOTE] You might be in for a surprise if you seriously expect a big update in Q1. Might be a good idea to stop forcing Valve to rush updates if you don't want rushed updates. Yes they never exactly "rush" them, yes update droughts are annoying, but shitty undercooked updates like MyM just make me want to kill myself regardless so pls stop pushing Valve to pull that shit. 9 yo game 5 people on the team etc etc.

[QUOTE=Drury;51592195]You might be in for a surprise if you seriously expect a big update in Q1. Might be a good idea to stop forcing Valve to rush updates if you don't want rushed updates. Yes they never exactly "rush" them, yes update droughts are annoying, but shitty undercooked updates like MyM just make me want to kill myself regardless so pls stop pushing Valve to pull that shit. 9 yo game 5 people on the team etc etc.[/QUOTE] For a company that takes months/years to fix critical flaws within a game, the community uproar is expected when they don't care to fix them. Crit a Cola, for example, has been overpowered since 2012. The Baby Face's Blaster was overpowered for almost 1.5 years. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to realize these weapons are overpowered. Unfortunately, the TF2 teams seems to have the collective knowledge of a pigeon, and instead of tweaking them, they instead add hats. I'm not expecting LoL levels of updates considering the TF2 team size, but a heads up on the Pyro update, or balancing these weapons is the most logical thing to do as a company. Why wouldn't they want to please their players? The work ethic of leaving us in the dark has gone too far, and the team has gotten away with too many lousy updates over the years.

[QUOTE=vevota;51592556]For a company that takes months/years to fix critical flaws within a game, the community uproar is expected when they don't care to fix them. Crit a Cola, for example, has been overpowered since 2012. The Baby Face's Blaster was overpowered for almost 1.5 years. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to realize these weapons are overpowered. Unfortunately, the TF2 teams seems to have the collective knowledge of a pigeon, and instead of tweaking them, they instead add hats. I'm not expecting LoL levels of updates considering the TF2 team size, but a heads up on the Pyro update, or balancing these weapons is the most logical thing to do as a company. Why wouldn't they want to please their players? The work ethic of leaving us in the dark has gone too far, and the team has gotten away with too many lousy updates over the years.[/QUOTE] The Crit a Cola is OP? I always thought it was useless since using it makes you take more damage from enemy. Like who would want to sacrifice their durability just to push out more damage?

[QUOTE=Nerfmaster000;51592588]The Crit a Cola is OP? I always thought it was useless since using it makes you take more damage from enemy. Like who would want to sacrifice their durability just to push out more damage?[/QUOTE] once you reach a certain level on scout, being given boosted damage + boosted movement speed turns what's already one of the strongest deathmatching classes you can play into a turbo-boosted god of death it's banned in every competitive format for this reason, where scouts are often central to the progression of the game and are far more skilled than their pub counterparts

[QUOTE=Nerfmaster000;51592588]The Crit a Cola is OP? I always thought it was useless since using it makes you take more damage from enemy. Like who would want to sacrifice their durability just to push out more damage?[/QUOTE] It allows you to one shot medics.

Not to mention that it's only real downside, the debuff after the minicrits wear off, doesn't matter. If you're good enough, you will have killed all if your enemies before it sets in.

[QUOTE=Magypsy;51592611]Not to mention that it's only real downside, the debuff after the minicrits wear off, doesn't matter. If you're good enough, you will have killed all if your enemies before it sets in.[/QUOTE] or you'll have gotten yourself out of danger and with/behind your team's hold

[QUOTE=Nerfmaster000;51591797]It's not like they're even contributing anything for TF and Dota anyway, and do they seriously need all that manpower for a bunch of overglorified tech demos for what's essentially nothing but a gimmick and fad? At this point, EA buying out Valve seems to be much better than whatever we're getting now.[/QUOTE] First off: You may hear stuff about "IceFrog is the man behind Dota 2" and "Hidden Path made CS:GO", but that couldn't be any further from the truth. IceFrog is merely the main game designer for Dota 2. In other words, it's mainly his say about what gets changed in balance changes and the such, new heroes, etc. And of course, he's only one man (amphibian?). There is still stuff like engine updates (after all, it's on Source 2) modelling, voice acting, etc. It's not a "one-man job" and it's all done in house at Valve, barring community created cosmetics. Hidden Path may have handled the main brunt of work with CS:GO, but when that game launched it was essentially a disaster. To the point where Valve booted Hidden Path and took charge of development, adding in skins, balance changes, map revamps, and controversial changes like weapon-sound-changes and glove skins. Secondly: You may feel VR is just a gimmick and/or fad, and you're welcome to that opinion, but merely because you think it's a waste of time does not mean everyone else feels the same. VR has some exciting possibilities and I'd much rather Valve near the helm than Oculus-Facebook. Third: It's easy to forget that Valve also have the behemoth that is Steam to maintain. And yes, while I'm sure you can point fingers at the recent admittedly lacklustre sale and laugh, you cannot deny both the impact Steam has had, and how much work it takes to keep it running somewhat smoothly. Lastly: EA buying out Valve? Seriously? You're talking about Consumerist's "Worst Company in America" twice-winner EA? SimCity 2013-always-online EA? I'm not saying Valve is perfect - I have my own issues with them - but sometimes it feels like there's a lot of people here who complain about TF2 from the perspective of someone who [B]only[/B] plays TF2, or at the very least only cares about TF2. I don't particularly care for CS:GO, but I keep myself abreast of what's happening there, and how they feel they're being shafted recently. Broaden your horizons a bit. Realize that the grass is not infact greener on the other side, it's as equally as shit everywhere you look.

[QUOTE=Fluury;51591161]I mean, unless we are incredibly ignorant, all of us that check the thread are aware the Team exists and obviously gives a shit about this game - know who doesnt? The vast Majority of People. Most people circling around tf2 come back when a Major Update hits. So, People are reminded that the game exists twice a year by the usual uproar a Major Update gives the game - then the big "judging" phase comes in to check if the Major Update brings enough to bother going back. MyM had no content but rather changed the game worked, Winter Update is not existant atm. So all we can do right now is wait, and hope the Pyro Update comes in January.[/QUOTE] I think that most TF2 players know(or at least guess) that Valve has a team that updates TF2, all you have to do is see how often the game updates on Steam (even if you don't look at all the patch notes) to figure that out for yourself. [editline]28th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=vevota;51592556]For a company that takes months/years to fix critical flaws within a game, the community uproar is expected when they don't care to fix them. Crit a Cola, for example, has been overpowered since 2012. The Baby Face's Blaster was overpowered for almost 1.5 years. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to realize these weapons are overpowered. Unfortunately, the TF2 teams seems to have the collective knowledge of a pigeon, and instead of tweaking them, they instead add hats. I'm not expecting LoL levels of updates considering the TF2 team size, but a heads up on the Pyro update, or balancing these weapons is the most logical thing to do as a company. Why wouldn't they want to please their players? The work ethic of leaving us in the dark has gone too far, and the team has gotten away with too many lousy updates over the years.[/QUOTE] Lets be fair here, the MyM balance updates were pretty questionable (aside from the core class changes like the reduced cost of the teleporter and the medic run speed change) but the balance updates in Gun Mettle and Tough Break were some of the best and most comprehensive we've ever seen with the game. I'll give the TF2 team a pass on MyM balance changes though, clearly matchmaking was causing a lot of issues and they probably didn't have as much time to play test as the 2015 updates. If our next big update comes with MyM quality balance changes I'll start to get worried.

[QUOTE=fendermcbender;51563581]in an increasingly curious event, the schema lists a promo for a "ChefSteps Joule" ...which... as far as I can tell, is a legitimate, not videogame related in the slightest, sous vide machine. (sealed bag of food cooked in a controlled temperature) anyway. [URL]https://www.chefsteps.com/joule[/URL][/QUOTE] [url]https://www.chefsteps.com/tf2[/url]